Topic: Minidisc error detection & other transfer methods?

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I was never able to hear the very last show I recorded with my MZ-R500 as when I was checking stuff out at the hotel, it the recorder just wouldn't function anymore.

For the last number of years, I've held onto this and now I have a cheap standalone (JE-500) MD player with optical out so I can transfer my older stuff. It plays the other discs fine, but this show there seems to be just chunks missing. I think they are missing, haven't loaded the wavs in audacity yet to remove the gaps of silence and see if things remotely link up as though its a buffer or some other problem, but I doubt it.

So, what other methods are there of reading music MDs? I know there is a DAT drive which will take DATs and read them in a data sense (dat2wav I think is the program that does it), is there anything similar for minidiscs? Its my last attempt at getting this to transfer.

 

[boojum]

The ways to do the xfer digitally are optical and through SonicStage from a MZ-RH1.  I think a fellow over at minidisc.org wrote some software to do it also, but you would have to check.  There is a lot of MD knowledge over there.

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+T

Thanks for the lead.

[jacobmyers]

 I've had this "chunks missing" problem with portable (and PortaStudio) MiniDisc equipment before. The ends of my recordings (before and after the "skip") never lined up perfectly. I liken the error to a phonograph lathe "skipping" a groove while cutting a master disc. The recorder may "start cutting again" after the "skip" but all the information (sound) that was happening while it was getting its bearings is lost because the recording is happening in real-time. And playing it back is difficult because the recording doesn't "follow the groove" properly after the "skip" (so the player has to try to match up the "ends").

 I use an (even cheaper) JRE440 for my transfers. Why? Because - no matter how you transfer it - MiniDisc will still sound like ass.

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Yeah, I hunted on ebay for a cheap optical out. I scored a JE-500 for $31 shipped from LA. Damned optical out was broken off cause some diptard smashed the toslink cover plug into the board connection. It's a three wire connection, so after an hour of finagling, I was able to get it to pass a signal and I screwed the thing on as tight as I could get it while maintaining that signal. I now don't unplug my toslink cable for fear of ruining it before I'm done transferring my stuff.

I'll be glad to be done, I'm this stuff has haunted me for ages now, when my recorder died I moved to the NJB3 as I wasn't going back to MD...

Also, for those searching the forums down the road for ways to fix or recover bad MDs, cross-reference this thread with http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,107060.0.html as another method. Better to have the choice and say no, then never have the choice.

[indietaperwloo]

I use an (even cheaper) JRE440 for my transfers. Why? Because - no matter how you transfer it - MiniDisc will still sound like ass.

I've actually started to shy away from HiMD in favor of an Edirol R-09.  Why?  Not for the reason you stated.  I assume you must be using an older MD if it sounds that bad.  I know the old ATRAC3 codec (i.e. MDLP) sounds like garbage (equivalent to 96kbps MP3 at 132kbps) but ATRAC3+ actually sounds pretty decent.  I also love the analog stage on the HiMD units - great sensitivity for mic in, great headroom when using my KE4 rig through the line in and a battery box.
That being said, HiMD and the older MD format has it's quirks which have cost me some great musical moments.  When I was taping KT Tunstall, I only managed to get the first 5 minutes of the opening act - an Irish singer-songwriter named Paddy Casey.  I did manage to pull KT's entire set in HiSP mode (256kbps ATRAC3+).
Bottom line, as far as sound goes, it's a great medium to record with.  As far as reliability goes, I would go with something flash-memory-based like an R-09, Fostex FR-2LE or Sony PCM-D50.

[sunjan]

The ways to do the xfer digitally are optical and through SonicStage from a MZ-RH1.

Yep, RH1 is the way to go. Still the only device that can transfer data from legacy MD, much faster than the optical out...

[yug du nord]

The ways to do the xfer digitally are optical and through SonicStage from a MZ-RH1.

Yep, RH1 is the way to go. Still the only device that can transfer data from legacy MD, much faster than the optical out...

If you have a "Type S" home deck with an optical output, that seems to be the best method.  If you transfer via USB, do you get the benefits of the "Type S" DSP chip? 

I'm not sure if you would through USB...  I've wondered that for a while...  and I'm not sure how much difference there would be anyways. 

Since lossy compression is used with legacy MD's, the "Type S" chip is supposed to give the lossy compression more of a sonically-natural-sound to the compression during playback.  I don't think you get that with a USB transfer.  So, I've always figured that using a "Type S" deck for playback gives the most natural sound out of the old legacy MD's.  But I may be wrong... 

So the question is...  which method of transfer is sonically better? 
1)  "Type S" home deck via optical output.  OR...
2)  USB transfer via RH1?

Any thoughts?

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So the question is...  which method of transfer is sonically better? 
1)  "Type S" home deck via optical output.  OR...
2)  USB transfer via RH1?

Hmm, that should be ABX-able enough. Transfer the same source twice and then use a general ABX test. Thats what I'm going to do when I have my UA-5 flavor-modded.

[sunjan]

So the question is...  which method of transfer is sonically better? 
1)  "Type S" home deck via optical output.  OR...
2)  USB transfer via RH1?

Hmm, that should be ABX-able enough. Transfer the same source twice and then use a general ABX test. Thats what I'm going to do when I have my UA-5 flavor-modded.

Good idea with the ABX, I'd love to hear that if someone has the gear to set it up.
uncleyug's theory about the Type-S chip being able to decode/playback legacy MD superiorly to RH1 is very interesting, and would explain some anomalies that users experienced with legacy MD RH1 transfers!

But do not use the UA-5 as a souncard for optical in. Like most of the Edirol gear, it's not bit perfect and will resample your digital-in signal.
Use only proven bit perfect soundcards if you want to transfer MD optically...

Just want to point out that ATRAC Type-R and Type-S are identical for playback, so if you're shopping for an MD deck, both of these will give equal results. Here's the conclusion of the discussions we had about MD transfers:
http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,97042.msg1292667.html#msg1292667

[yug du nord]

So the question is...  which method of transfer is sonically better? 
1)  "Type S" home deck via optical output.  OR...
2)  USB transfer via RH1?

Good idea with the ABX, I'd love to hear that if someone has the gear to set it up.
uncleyug's theory about the Type-S chip being able to decode/playback legacy MD superiorly to RH1 is very interesting, and would explain some anomalies that users experienced with legacy MD RH1 transfers!

Just want to point out that ATRAC Type-R and Type-S are identical for playback, so if you're shopping for an MD deck, both of these will give equal results. Here's the conclusion of the discussions we had about MD transfers:
http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,97042.msg1292667.html#msg1292667

As for legacy MD's...  ATRAC Type-R is superior playback for recordings in standard "SP" mode.  ATRAC Type-S is superior playback for recordings in either "SP", "LP2", or "LP4" mode.  So, yes they have the same superior playback chip if you're only using legacy MD's that were recorded in "SP" mode.  But, if you have legacy MD's that were recorded in either "LP2 or LP4" mode...  ATRAC Type-S is superior. 

ATRAC Type-S is only superior in playback to ATRAC Type-R if the legacy MD's were recorded in either "LP2 or LP4" mode.  Otherwise Type-R and Type-S are the same for playback if the legacy MD was recorded in "SP" mode.

I think I got that right...  hope it's understandable.

I don't have the gear to try this ABX...  but it would be cool if someone does!  Great idea...  with the right gear... 

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But do not use the UA-5 as a souncard for optical in. Like most of the Edirol gear, it's not bit perfect and will resample your digital-in signal.
Use only proven bit perfect soundcards if you want to transfer MD optically...

Sorry for the misunderstanding. I've got a digi-mod UA-5 and I'll eventually have it busman modded which I've heard alters the sound. Thats the ABX compare I meant, not the MD transfer. Minor analogy threadjack and I got caught. 

For MDs, I'm doing JE-500 > H120 (optical), and I too would be interested if given a single legacy MD, just how well the chip would make a difference. If someone has either an R or S deck, I can send out an MD along with a CD of the accompanying transfer for the 3-way comp.

Just want to point out that ATRAC Type-R and Type-S are identical for playback, so if you're shopping for an MD deck, both of these will give equal results. Here's the conclusion of the discussions we had about MD transfers:
http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,97042.msg1292667.html#msg1292667

Neato, thanks for the link. +T