Topic: Roll-Off units. Does it really works?

[Dede2002]

Hello,

I taped (Ivan Neville's) Dumpstaphunk last week. Man, talk about ridiculouslly loud bass .
Anyway, I was running my MM-Custom BB's 95HZ roll-off setting. Well, the mics were powered, but I don't think the actual roll-off filter had any impact on the final recording. Sounds like no roll-off has ever been used. The bass is everywhere on my recording and I was not that close to the stage.
My question: does those roll-off units actually works (all the time)?

[Church-Audio]

Hello,

I taped (Ivan Neville's) Dumpstaphunk last week. Man, talk about ridiculouslly loud bass .
Anyway, I was running my MM-Custom BB's 95HZ roll-off setting. Well, the mics were powered, but I don't think the actual roll-off filter had any impact on the final recording. Sounds like no roll-off has ever been used. The bass is everywhere on my recording and I was not that cloase to the stage.
My question: does those roll-off units actually works (all the time)?

The problem with passive roll off circuits like the one your using is they rely on the input and output impedance to set the roll off point of your filter. The filter is designed to be operated with a certain input and output impedance in mind. You should contact SP and find out what input and output impedance they are using to calculate the roll off frequency.

Chris

[Dede2002]

Hello,

I taped (Ivan Neville's) Dumpstaphunk last week. Man, talk about ridiculouslly loud bass .
Anyway, I was running my MM-Custom BB's 95HZ roll-off setting. Well, the mics were powered, but I don't think the actual roll-off filter had any impact on the final recording. Sounds like no roll-off has ever been used. The bass is everywhere on my recording and I was not that cloase to the stage.
My question: does those roll-off units actually works (all the time)?

The problem with passive roll off circuits like the one your using is they rely on the input and output impedance to set the roll off point of your filter. The filter is designed to be operated with a certain input and output impedance in mind. You should contact SP and find out what input and output impedance they are using to calculate the roll off frequency.

Chris

Thanks. I'll do that. 
What about the roll-off on your (mine) CA-9100? How does it work?
My rig was: MM-HLSO-Micro (omni) and R-09HR.

[fmaderjr]

I recall Chris Carfagno at Sound Pro's telling me my old Sound pro's battery box was calibrated for input into 10 Kohms (that of a Sony minidisc mic input). I don't know about the R09HR, but the R09's mic input is 20 Kohms and line input is 17 Kohms. Assuming your battery box is calibrated the same, and I assume it would be, and if the R09HR has the same input impedences as the R09, that means that for mic in, the rolloff would be only 10/20 of the amount shown on the battery box. For line in, it would be 10/17 of the amount shown.

[Dede2002]

I recall Chris Carfagno at Sound Pro's telling me my old Sound pro's battery box was calibrated for input into 10 Kohms (that of a Sony minidisc mic input). I don't know about the R09HR, but the R09's mic input is 20 Kohms and line input is 17 Kohms. Assuming your battery box is calibrated the same, and I assume it would be, and if the R09HR has the same input impedences as the R09, that means that for mic in, the rolloff would be only 10/20 of the amount shown on the battery box. For line in, it would be 10/17 of the amount shown.

Thanks a lot. +T
I'm contacting Microphone Madness to find out about this.

[Arni99]

I recall Chris Carfagno at Sound Pro's telling me my old Sound pro's battery box was calibrated for input into 10 Kohms (that of a Sony minidisc mic input). I don't know about the R09HR, but the R09's mic input is 20 Kohms and line input is 17 Kohms. Assuming your battery box is calibrated the same, and I assume it would be, and if the R09HR has the same input impedences as the R09, that means that for mic in, the rolloff would be only 10/20 of the amount shown on the battery box. For line in, it would be 10/17 of the amount shown.

Thanks a lot. +T
I'm contacting Microphone Madness to find out about this.

I know you say 100Hz is too much, but I would use the r09hr´s internal low-cut at 100Hz at really bassy concerts with my dpa4061 .
The Victor Wooten concert I recorded...... with 2 bass players .....a post-roll-off of 145Hz still is not enough .

Try your MM-bbox at different settings at home and you will now how different settings affect the result.
 

[Dede2002]

I recall Chris Carfagno at Sound Pro's telling me my old Sound pro's battery box was calibrated for input into 10 Kohms (that of a Sony minidisc mic input). I don't know about the R09HR, but the R09's mic input is 20 Kohms and line input is 17 Kohms. Assuming your battery box is calibrated the same, and I assume it would be, and if the R09HR has the same input impedences as the R09, that means that for mic in, the rolloff would be only 10/20 of the amount shown on the battery box. For line in, it would be 10/17 of the amount shown.

Thanks a lot. +T
I'm contacting Microphone Madness to find out about this.

I know you say 100Hz is too much, but I would use the r09hr´s internal low-cut at 100Hz at really bassy concerts with my dpa4061 .
The Victor Wooten concert I recorded...... with 2 bass players .....a post-roll-off of 145Hz still is not enough .

Try your MM-bbox at different settings at home and you will now how different settings affect the result.
 

In this particular gig, I'd say you're right, my friend. Dumpstaphunk also has two bass players in a private contest: which one is the loudest bass player ever . Great band though.
Do you mind telling me about your post-production roll-off setting? -12bd, -20db?

[Arni99]

I recall Chris Carfagno at Sound Pro's telling me my old Sound pro's battery box was calibrated for input into 10 Kohms (that of a Sony minidisc mic input). I don't know about the R09HR, but the R09's mic input is 20 Kohms and line input is 17 Kohms. Assuming your battery box is calibrated the same, and I assume it would be, and if the R09HR has the same input impedences as the R09, that means that for mic in, the rolloff would be only 10/20 of the amount shown on the battery box. For line in, it would be 10/17 of the amount shown.

Thanks a lot. +T
I'm contacting Microphone Madness to find out about this.

I know you say 100Hz is too much, but I would use the r09hr´s internal low-cut at 100Hz at really bassy concerts with my dpa4061 .
The Victor Wooten concert I recorded...... with 2 bass players .....a post-roll-off of 145Hz still is not enough .

Try your MM-bbox at different settings at home and you will now how different settings affect the result.
 

In this particular gig, I'd say you're right, my friend. Dumpstaphunk also has two bass players in a private contest: which one is the loudest bass player ever . Great band though.
Do you mind telling me about your post-production roll-off setting? -12bd, -20db?

You need to try different post-roll-off-settings and decide which result sounds best to YOUR ears and your homestereo .

[Dede2002]

I recall Chris Carfagno at Sound Pro's telling me my old Sound pro's battery box was calibrated for input into 10 Kohms (that of a Sony minidisc mic input). I don't know about the R09HR, but the R09's mic input is 20 Kohms and line input is 17 Kohms. Assuming your battery box is calibrated the same, and I assume it would be, and if the R09HR has the same input impedences as the R09, that means that for mic in, the rolloff would be only 10/20 of the amount shown on the battery box. For line in, it would be 10/17 of the amount shown.

Thanks a lot. +T
I'm contacting Microphone Madness to find out about this.

I know you say 100Hz is too much, but I would use the r09hr´s internal low-cut at 100Hz at really bassy concerts with my dpa4061 .
The Victor Wooten concert I recorded...... with 2 bass players .....a post-roll-off of 145Hz still is not enough .

Try your MM-bbox at different settings at home and you will now how different settings affect the result.
 

In this particular gig, I'd say you're right, my friend. Dumpstaphunk also has two bass players in a private contest: which one is the loudest bass player ever . Great band though.
Do you mind telling me about your post-production roll-off setting? -12bd, -20db?

You need to try different post-roll-off-settings and decide which result sounds best to YOUR ears and your homestereo .

No doubt  about that. 
I'm just curious about your settings

[Dede2002]

I recall Chris Carfagno at Sound Pro's telling me my old Sound pro's battery box was calibrated for input into 10 Kohms (that of a Sony minidisc mic input). I don't know about the R09HR, but the R09's mic input is 20 Kohms and line input is 17 Kohms. Assuming your battery box is calibrated the same, and I assume it would be, and if the R09HR has the same input impedences as the R09, that means that for mic in, the rolloff would be only 10/20 of the amount shown on the battery box. For line in, it would be 10/17 of the amount shown.

Thanks one more time.
R-09HR Mic Input  impedance: 30 Kohms
R-09HR Line Input impedance: 15 Kohms.

[George]

Just my .2c: I would recommend not using any bass roll off and just do it in post....what if the bass roll off goes overboard and takes out too much bass.

[Dede2002]

Just my .2c: I would recommend not using any bass roll off and just do it in post....what if the bass roll off goes overboard and takes out too much bass.

Thanks for your response. You know, the post-production thing could be a nightmare. With most tapes, all I have to do is set up a 60HZ (-6db) roll-off and this is it. But sometimes (like in the present recording) it's a real pain. Toooo much bass. Going up from 60HZ makes the sound thin/harsh and sometimes the troubled frequency is like 125 or 133HZ, not the 60Hz. The lower bass, mid-bass and whatever is something I don't know how to identify by ear.
Very dispointed with what could be otherwise a nice pull.
Anyway, I think that in an extreme case like the one I'm facing right now, you better accept it, forget about the whole thing and move to the next show 

[Church-Audio]

I think its always good with a set of 4060 DPA mics to have a roll off around 100hz at 6db per octave. This helps you get more of what you want on tape. But with some lesser quality mics I feel people have been using bass roll off as a way to reduce distortion.. That really does not work sure if you set a bass roll off to 850hz! your not going to hear much overloading that is going on in the low end. But you also going to end up with AM radio. I think its better to use mics that simply do not overload with bass and deal with it in post. You can do so much more in the way of eq later on that it seems silly to reduce bass ahead of time but 6 db per octave around 100hz should be ok for most venues. The other thing that concerns me is the lack of monitoring that most tapers that use small mics do in a live show. This also lends it self to a "less is more" approach and leaving the fine tuning for post when you can hear what your doing.


Chris

[Dede2002]

I think its always good with a set of 4060 DPA mics to have a roll off around 100hz at 6db per octave. This helps you get more of what you want on tape. But with some lesser quality mics I feel people have been using bass roll off as a way to reduce distortion.. That really does not work sure if you set a bass roll off to 850hz! your not going to hear much overloading that is going on in the low end. But you also going to end up with AM radio. I think its better to use mics that simply do not overload with bass and deal with it in post. You can do so much more in the way of eq later on that it seems silly to reduce bass ahead of time but 6 db per octave around 100hz should be ok for most venues. The other thing that concerns me is the lack of monitoring that most tapers that use small mics do in a live show. This also lends it self to a "less is more" approach and leaving the fine tuning for post when you can hear what your doing.


Chris

Good point.
My mics (Senn MKE-2) never let me down in the distortion department. But they sure capture a lot of bass. Sometimes too much.
Anyway, I believe it`s good to know the correct settings of my bb roll-off. Just in case.

[nameloc01]

Get yourself in the sweet spot,or as close as possible and don't use any roll-off. That's the best way.