Topic: possibly looking to upgrade to actives - too many choices!!!

[ninjadave]

hey all

i'm running AT's but possibly looking to upgrade to an active setup in the realm of Schoeps, neumans, etc...and i would need to be able to stealth these which i have seen done by others (somehow) ie. Mk4 schoeps to NBox to R9 or direct to PDM660??

excluding the DPA and other smaller mics that run on 9v for now......what are my options - i'm looking for a mic that is not too warm and not too bright with good pickup all around (equal bass and highs). caps i can bury in a beret style hat (so they can't be too long) and that have cables that are not that thick.....and that won't crush my bank account.

assumptions- all the mics in this category run on 48 phantom power correct? so i'd need box or PS-2 to run them.....is a preamp necessary and if so, what options that do both - preamp and phantom...i have an R9 now but should i look at the recorders that have phantom built in for this purpose (PDM660 etc) - if so, i would want them to use SD cards as i have those already with the R9....

is there a thread or place (pictures) that explains the active setup which i think i understand to mean you can ditch the bodies and just run the caps to a box and that should enable you to stealth easier??? are there mods to these types of mics that do the same thing - the Franken mod to the Neumans i've read about??

i just don't know enough about this.....or should i really look at the smaller mics that might provide similar performance but easier to stealth, like DPA, etc...i really want to use Cards and not Omni's.....thanks.

ninjadave.

[stevetoney]

Actaully, you don't have too many choices for actives.  Off the top of my head, your options include the following...

Neumann KM100 bodies with AK40 caps and LC3 cables
MBHO 603A bodies w/KA200 cap
Milabs VM44Link bodies with cardioid capsules
Schoeps CMC6 bodies with MK4 or MK4V capsules and KC5 cables
AKG-460 or JWMod 460 bodies with MK46 cables and ck1x capsules

Probably the most difficult to find would be the AKG setup because none of those components are sold on the open market anymore.  The Milabs are least expensive, but sound great.

From what I can tell, most all of these options provide about the same size capsule to deal with for undercover.  You'd be looking at about 3/4 inch in diameter and maybe 1 1/2 inches in length.  None of the cables would be bulky...they'd be the same size cables I think as the cables on your AT mics.

The advantage of all of these setups is interchangeable capsules and sound quality.  I don't have experience with the DPA mics, but of course if size is your main concern that these setups can't touch the DPAs in terms of stealthability.  But if you want the maximum in sound quality vs. stealthability, then you should consider one of the active setups.

Yeah, you mentioned the PMD-660.  That would be a good option, but another option would be one of the really small pre-amps, like say the Aerco MP-2 a great sounding pre-amp with a very small form factor.  A couple of other very small preamps include the Sound Devices MP-2 or mixpre.  Any of these three pre-amps could be used with your R-09 by using the line out on the preamp.

[Brian Skalinder]

Neumann KM100 bodies with AK40 caps and LC3 cables
MBHO 603A bodies w/KA200 cap
Milabs VM44Link bodies with cardioid capsules
Schoeps CMC6 bodies with MK4 or MK4V capsules and KC5 cables
AKG-460 or JWMod 460 bodies with MK46 cables and ck1x capsules

I'd also add:

DPA 402x (fixed cardioid cap)
Schoeps CCM4 (fixed cardioid cap)
NBox / custom active cables + Schoeps MK4/MK4V/MK5
Sonosax SX-M2/LS2 + KCY active cables + MK4/MK4V/MK5

Whether they'll crush your bank account, well...depends.  I consider all of the above "expensive" options for the recording we do.  What's your budget?

[CQBert]

I had and sold DPA 4021's..  Fantastic sound - a little sharp on the highs for my taste but they are great. 

I now have the new Senn 8040's and I am enjoying them.  Only taped the neighbors Jazz band and love the sound.  Headed out this weekend and in a couple of weeks to real venues to roll right.

The only reason I sold the DPA's was to have the flexibility of changing caps.

CQBert

[John Willett]

I have just placed my order for a matched pair of the new Sennheiser MKH 8040 (cardioid) and also for a matched pair of the MKH 8020 (omni). 

[ninjadave]

thanks for the input guys, i appreciate it, doing more reseach here on the Milabs and MBHO's.....thanks....

ninjadave.

[johnw]

If you need to keep the profile low, I'd go with the Milabs as the MBHOs have an xlr connection that sticks out a bit.

[M]

How much cash do you have to burn?  I think that the audix 1290's are a nice step in between the small 9v mics and the uber expensive actives.  They are  >:Dable

[Tim]

thanks for the input guys, i appreciate it, doing more reseach here on the Milabs and MBHO's.....thanks....

ninjadave.

I like the MBHO's fine but man I have heard some smoking tapes made with the Milabs...

[BC]

what are my options - i'm looking for a mic that is not too warm and not too bright with good pickup all around (equal bass and highs). caps i can bury in a beret style hat (so they can't be too long) and that have cables that are not that thick.....and that won't crush my bank account.

ninjadave.

DPA402x, wrap some padding around that bank account to avoid crushing.   

[stevetoney]

If you need to keep the profile low, I'd go with the Milabs as the MBHOs have an xlr connection that sticks out a bit.

I've owned the MBHO's and briefly had Milabs in my possession.  Honestly, there isn't much difference at all between the size of these two.  The XLRs you mentioned are mini-XLRs, so they really don't add much bulk compared to the connectors on the Milabs. 

One minus about the Milabs though is that right now the only capsule options available are omni's.  When I had both the Neumanns and the Milabs in my hands, I ended up choosing the Neumanns because of the selection of capsules.  OTOH, the cardiod equipped Milabs sound stellar for the price.

Steve

[johnw]

Well I've never owned the MBHOs, only seen them, but it looks like the mini-xlr connector sticks out the back of the capsule adapter for about the same length as the capsule + adapter. Since the housing of the mini-xlr is rigid that makes the total length closer to 4-5cm. The Milabs have pliable cable coming out of the adapter, so the total non-pliable length is shorter. This is of course assuming we are talking about the 603a which uses mini-xlr and not the 648 which uses a conection more like the Milabs and has a shorter total non-pliable length. I can't remember why the 648s aren't used more often for our purposes, but I believe people generally prefer the 603a sound.

[nottingham]

Aerco mp2 > DPA 402x all day

[OOK]

Well I've never owned the MBHOs, only seen them, but it looks like the mini-xlr connector sticks out the back of the capsule adapter for about the same length as the capsule + adapter. Since the housing of the mini-xlr is rigid that makes the total length closer to 4-5cm. The Milabs have pliable cable coming out of the adapter, so the total non-pliable length is shorter. This is of course assuming we are talking about the 603a which uses mini-xlr and not the 648 which uses a conection more like the Milabs and has a shorter total non-pliable length. I can't remember why the 648s aren't used more often for our purposes, but I believe people generally prefer the 603a sound.

I don't have the 648a  but I do use the 648 and I love them...I never understood it either...probably because the 603 are transformerless........

[ninjadave]

thanks again for all the info...but in doing the research on this, i know i might be sacrificing some sound with going this route but wouldn't the modified "active" setups of the Franken Nak 300's or the AKG CK91 caps to  3 wire BB be an upgrade to the AT853"s?

are there any other mics i could run caps/small body (less than 2inches/20mm dia) with a "homemade 3 wire BB setup - 9v - using miniXLR so i can interchange them all - AT, Naks, CK91's, etc.....one BB for all???

i know some of these mics will take 48v phantom but i don't want the extra gear unless at somepoint, the church transformer pre arrives that provides phantom and i can stealth it......it seems the AKG CK91 caps are pretty reasonable new.....i know "illconditioned" did some homemade mods and ran these mics this way...are there any others that would work and which are best? i've read the reviews on the Naks, some love, some hate, some think they are dated, etc....not much talk about the CK91's.....i think the schoeps, neumans, etc are out of my range and all need 48v+......unless the church pre arrives at some point then these might be slightly cheaper options, although the caps arn't....

lastly, once i find the solution, anyone know who could build me the BB and mod the mics/caps for me if i can't locate them already?.church? busman?...i don't think there are that many around already modded, let alone finding them for sale.

thanks again for any info...ciao.
ninjadave.