small mic for lecture/band recording with iriver H120

[david_f]

Hi All,

I've got an iriver H120, preamp box and stealth mics from church audio that I use for bootlegging concerts.

I want to find something to make really clear lecture and coffehouse type band recordings (i.e. able to just whip out the recorder and set on a table near the instruments). I am being tempted by the zoom H2 as I need an all in one type thing that can be easily pocketed. Something that I can just pull out, turn on, and set on the table out in the open and get great results.

I'd use my iriver but I don't want all the bulk from hauling around the external mics/preamp.

Can anyone suggest a decent mic to use that I can just plug into the mic input on the iriver that would produce recordings comparable to those from the zoom H2's internal mics?

I see a whole bunch of little mics on various website of this kind of format:



Does that kind of setup work ok? If so, any suggestions on which specific one to get?

Thanks!

[professorhalfbaked]

Hi All,

I've got an iriver H120, preamp box and stealth mics from church audio that I use for bootlegging recording/archiving/taping concerts.

I want to find something to make really clear lecture and coffehouse type band recordings (i.e. able to just whip out the recorder and set on a table near the instruments). I am being tempted by the zoom H2 as I need an all in one type thing that can be easily pocketed. Something that I can just pull out, turn on, and set on the table out in the open and get great results.

I'd use my iriver but I don't want all the bulk from hauling around the external mics/preamp.

Can anyone suggest a decent mic to use that I can just plug into the mic input on the iriver that would produce recordings comparable to those from the zoom H2's internal mics?

I see a whole bunch of little mics on various website of this kind of format:

Does that kind of setup work ok? If so, any suggestions on which specific one to get?

Thanks!

[petur]

I think that should work, I don't know how likely it is the mic will pick up some hdd noise (being so close to the h120).
I guess for the price of these little mics you could just try it and see what it gives

[david_f]

Heh, sorry. I only do legal shows anyway.

[goatfarmer]

I use a Sony ECM-DS70P (looks a lot like the picture above) with my iriver h120 and I love it. There is hard drive noise if you plug it in directly but it comes with a cable several feet long which alleviates that problem.

[sunjan]

I want to find something to make really clear lecture and coffehouse type band recordings (i.e. able to just whip out the recorder and set on a table near the instruments). I am being tempted by the zoom H2 as I need an all in one type thing that can be easily pocketed. Something that I can just pull out, turn on, and set on the table out in the open and get great results.

The key word here is "really clear recordings" and "great results".

IMHO: no, you won't be able to acheive it, but it depends on your definition of great.

The problem with the H120 is that it needs a pretty hot signal for the line in. Otherwise you'll have to crank up the gain way up in the digital range, which will introduce noise:
http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,87558.msg1166861.html#msg1166861

So hypotetically, if you can find a T-shape plug-in stereo mic, with internal battery (ideally more than 1.5v) and decent quality capsules that can feed your iriver with a hot signal, yes, it's possible to get good results (I reserve the word "great" for cabled external mics). But I've never come across any mic like that so far...

When I run my Sony mics with my Iriver, I have to crank up the gain as far as +36dB, even for loud rock shows like Mars Volta last week. Imagine what you'd have to do at a coffeehouse! 

/Jan

[david_f]

Sorry for using the term great ... didn't think about where I was posting.

Anyway  ... great to me would be comparabe to the samples I've heard from the zoom H2 where people say they've just set it on a table in front of a band. I should probaby just pick up one of those, but I figure I've already got the h120 and already carry it around to use as an mp3 player, so if I an get omparable results without the added bulk I'd like to.

[sunjan]

I use a Sony ECM-DS70P (looks a lot like the picture above) with my iriver h120 and I love it. There is hard drive noise if you plug it in directly but it comes with a cable several feet long which alleviates that problem.

Running a T-shape mic with a cable sort of defeats the purpose, IMHO. If you bother to bring a cable, why not pull a proper tape and have separate mics for left/right?!

Besides, the Iriver only provides 3.3V plugin power, while the DS70P would require 5-6V to perform up to specs (which aren't that impressive anyway).

Goatfarmer, how much gain do you need add on the Iriver when you run this rig?
This post is good reading about the very same setup:
http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,79494.msg1057698.html#msg1057698

/Jan

[sunjan]

Sorry for using the term great ... didn't think about where I was posting.

Anyway  ... great to me would be comparabe to the samples I've heard from the zoom H2 where people say they've just set it on a table in front of a band. I should probaby just pick up one of those, but I figure I've already got the h120 and already carry it around to use as an mp3 player, so if I an get omparable results without the added bulk I'd like to.

Here are two torrents using this setup:
http://www.dimeadozen.org//torrents-details.php?id=170622&hit=1
http://www.dimeadozen.org//torrents-details.php?id=166886&hit=1

Sorry to disappoint you David, but using the H120 as an "all-in-one" with a T-shape mic is a non-starter in my eyes.
Take a look at this:
http://reviews.cnet.com/microphones/sony-ecm-ds70p/4507-6469_7-20648800.html?tag=specs

Response Bandwidth 100 - 15000 Hz (poor bass response)
Noise Level 34 dB
Max Sound Pressure 110 dB (potential for brickwalling at loud SPL situations?!)
Uni-directional  (i e omni caps)
Effective Output Level -38 dB

Without having used the H2 myself, I'm pretty sure that the internal H2 mics performs better in a real-life situation.
Not to mention other proven gear like the R-09, PMD620, PCM-D50 or even H4.

/J

[goatfarmer]

I use a Sony ECM-DS70P (looks a lot like the picture above) with my iriver h120 and I love it. There is hard drive noise if you plug it in directly but it comes with a cable several feet long which alleviates that problem.

Running a T-shape mic with a cable sort of defeats the purpose, IMHO. If you bother to bring a cable, why not pull a proper tape and have separate mics for left/right?!

Besides, the Iriver only provides 3.3V plugin power, while the DS70P would require 5-6V to perform up to specs (which aren't that impressive anyway).

Goatfarmer, how much gain do you need add on the Iriver when you run this rig?
This post is good reading about the very same setup:
http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,79494.msg1057698.html#msg1057698

/Jan

Jan, I'm honestly not sure. I've run this setup only a handful of times, usually at outdoor weddings with a band performing. I'll normally electrical tape the mic and iRiver to a tent pole around 8' up and let it run. I'm guessing gain is set about 20-22 but please take that with a grain of salt because, as stated earlier, I'm really not sure...I bet I haven't run this in over a year. Now that I've been asked I'll be sure to note it in the future. 

This is the rig I throw in my pocket when I'm going out at night with no intentions of recording but as a just in case something pops up that I wished I had a device. My results have been fine but I completely agree with you that David could do better. Depends on how much he wants to spend, I guess.

Regards,
Doug

[david_f]

This is the rig I throw in my pocket when I'm going out at night with no intentions of recording but as a just in case something pops up that I wished I had a device. My results have been fine but I completely agree with you that David could do better. Depends on how much he wants to spend, I guess.

Regards,
Doug

Thanks for the replies everyone. That is the exact description of what I'm looking for. Something to toss into the coat or pants pocket and have with me all the time. With possible uses being recording spoken voice events or bands at coffeehouses and bars I might find myself in. I don't really want to have to pocket mics, iriver, battery box, and several cables.

I'm not opposed to spending a bit of money to find something good, I just wanted to ask advice to see if there was a good way of letting my iriver serve that purpose.

Reading around the forum it seems like the H2 would be a good bet for this sort of thing. Hopefully not too much of a hijack here, but looking at the zoom products ... are the internal mics on either of the H2/H4 better than the ones on the other? The H2 looks more pocketable.

Thanks again,

Dave

[goatfarmer]

Reading around the forum it seems like the H2 would be a good bet for this sort of thing. Hopefully not too much of a hijack here, but looking at the zoom products ... are the internal mics on either of the H2/H4 better than the ones on the other? The H2 looks more pocketable.

Thanks again,

Dave

I have an H2 but I have yet to only use it to record my daughter's heartbeat as heard through a Doppler back when my wife was still pregnant. That came out fine but I think a $20 cassette recorder would have worked as well. If you haven't checked it out yet, grab a beer, sit back and go to http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,89082.0.html and read through it all.  You may glean something from that thread.

Regards,
Doug