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Gear / Technical Help => Recording Gear => Topic started by: shaggy on October 16, 2018, 04:01:52 AM
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Looks like a successor to the M10...
https://www.sony.com/electronics/voice-recorders/pcm-a10 (https://www.sony.com/electronics/voice-recorders/pcm-a10)
https://www.sony.jp/ic-recorder/products/PCM-A10/ (https://www.sony.jp/ic-recorder/products/PCM-A10/)
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Hmmm, it has a "Zoom" setting. :P :bigsmile:
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Interesting. I guess Sony didn't decide to exit the market after all...
The remote app should be well received by stealthers and it is pretty tiny as well. It supports FLAC playback, so it might make a decent portable player. I am always a little skeptical of built-in batteries, though, and the specs aren't very complete. I am curious to read the reviews once they start coming out!
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I predict that I will be buying one of these. I agree about the built-in batteries though.
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This is indeed a very interesting development, and just as I was about to order a Roland-R07. I guess I'll be holding back on that for the moment and pre-order one of these instead.
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Looking forward to hear more about recording Line In on this device. The manual mentions that you can select between "Mic In" and "Audio In", but haven't found more information about Audio In (Line In).
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Promising...
But I don't like the built in USB-A for charging.
And unless it's next to the USB, I don't see a DC jack for an external battery.
It "only" goes down to 40Hz which seems goofy to me.
No phatty sub-sonic omni recordings with this.
Other than that, it seems like it could be great.
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It "only" goes down to 40Hz which seems goofy to me.
No phatty sub-sonic omni recordings with this.
My assumption is that spec refers to recordings made with the internal mics. Just an assumption though.
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/\
That makes sense... let's hope that's for the internal mikes.
Good call man!
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Here's the online manual:
https://helpguide.sony.net/icd/pcma10/v1/en2/index.html
This may be just a glorified voice recorder.
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This may be just a glorified voice recorder.
i think the URL makes that clear:
https://www.sony.com/electronics/voice-recorders/pcm-a10
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"When a plug in power type microphone is connected, power is automatically supplied to the microphone from the linear PCM recorder."
No option to manually change this in settings? So what happens if you have a battery box in between?
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This may be just a glorified voice recorder.
i think the URL makes that clear:
https://www.sony.com/electronics/voice-recorders/pcm-a10
So, the question is how much of the M10 was carried over to this machine.
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I think this is more a successor to Sony's ICD-SX2000 with the addition of the "Rehearsal" gain setting feature. That model no longer appears to be on Sony's website and there is more than a passing resemblance between the two. I didn't do a detailed comparison of the specs (as still listed on B&H), but they look pretty close.
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Here are the details on MIC IN vs Audio IN — it's selected in software settings, though nothing on how this actually affects the preamp, etc.:
https://helpguide.sony.net/icd/pcma10/v1/en2/contents/TP0001684425.html
Given the promo photos of using it to record instruments, it looks like Sony is trying to replace the M10's functionality in a smaller form factor, a la the R-07. I won't be rushing out to ditch my M10s anytime soon — 10-15 hour battery life while recording is a major step down with the A10, even if still decent — but I'm certainly interested in hearing how this thing works in the field.
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I think this is more a successor to Sony's ICD-SX2000 with the addition of the "Rehearsal" gain setting feature. That model no longer appears to be on Sony's website and there is more than a passing resemblance between the two. I didn't do a detailed comparison of the specs (as still listed on B&H), but they look pretty close.
My memory of the SX2000 is that there was something annoying in the implementation of making higher res recordings.
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It "only" goes down to 40Hz which seems goofy to me.
I didn't see that. Looks like quite a bummer. And I can't really think of a valid reason why Sony did this. The SX2000 had the same frequency range, but it was marketed primarily as a voice recorder. The PCM-A10 is clearly marketed for recording music, and it even has the "PCM" in the name, which suggests to me that Sony sees it in the same product category as their previous music recorders. I guess time will tell how this thing works out.
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I found a video of the A10 on YouTube:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9vjv6d71hJY
Some specs are visible in the background. They are in German. The topmost bullet point is "Diktiergerät", which means "Voice Recorder" or "Dictaphone"...
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This may be just a glorified voice recorder.
i think the URL makes that clear:
https://www.sony.com/electronics/voice-recorders/pcm-a10
The M10 was also just a glorified voice recorder. This has 24/96 recording and 16GB internal memory. Can’t wait to tell the kids at the door pretending to do security that it’s my dictation device for work!
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m10 is 24/96, too, or is it not? At any rate, 24/96 is dogs can hear only
:laugh:
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Found this in the manual, which doesn't sound promising for stealth (or alot of field recording conditions):
https://helpguide.sony.net/icd/pcma10/v1/en2/contents/TP0001684409.html (https://helpguide.sony.net/icd/pcma10/v1/en2/contents/TP0001684409.html)
Recording with manual volume adjustment (manual recording)
You can manually select the optimum recording volume level for the sound source.
Note
If you accidentally touch your linear PCM recorder or let an object come in contact with it while recording is in progress, rustling or scratching noises may be recorded.
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Is there a "hold" button? That was the biggest knock by people when the mixpre-3/6 came out.
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I suppose you could tell security it's a sex toy:
(https://www.sony.com/image/7488a7948784009600882f6c33720de0?fmt=pjpeg&wid=2028&hei=792&bgcolor=F1F5F9&bgc=F1F5F9)
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Note
If you accidentally touch your linear PCM recorder or let an object come in contact with it while recording is in progress, rustling or scratching noises may be recorded.
This is probably related to the internal microphones.
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Is there a "hold" button? That was the biggest knock by people when the mixpre-3/6 came out.
Yes, on the side. Combined with the power switch. Same as on the M10.
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(https://www.sony.com/image/7488a7948784009600882f6c33720de0?fmt=pjpeg&wid=2028&hei=792&bgcolor=F1F5F9&bgc=F1F5F9)
Looks kinda Trumpy, but what do I Know?
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Note
If you accidentally touch your linear PCM recorder or let an object come in contact with it while recording is in progress, rustling or scratching noises may be recorded.
This is probably related to the internal microphones.
You're right, later in the manual the section on recording from an external device doesn't have that warning message.
At the $229 price point, it's definitely worth a tryout with external mics and a HQ preamp. The powering limitation kinda stinks.
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The M10 was also just a glorified voice recorder.
Not in the sense of a dictaphone / memo keeper. The M10 was primarily for ENG (hence the omni mics) and of broadcast quality. A voice recorder implies fairly low quality.
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This has the same cheapo look as some low end Tascam recorders. Hope it sounds great and I won't care how cheap it looks.
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The built in USB is weird.
Says 15 hrs battery life but I wonder if you were not using google it for stealth and wanted to attach a battery pack if you could or if it would want to go into a transfer or charge mode
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The built in USB is weird.
I don't mind that. Actually I think it's quite handy for people who only use the internal memory and want to quickly transfer their recordings to a computer. Every time I want to do that with my M10, I have to search for that old-style miniature USB-B cable first.
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At last they have dropped the M10 closely-spaced-omni mics, which were more or less useless for capturing any kind of stereo image. The M10 mic quality was quite good apart from the imaging, so hopefully these will be generally as good with the added benefit of actual stereo.
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I thought so, m10 settings. from crap to that only dogs can hear, I myself use 44.1 x24 as the smallest size that I can still do amplification on without hiss
:guitarist:
from m10 manual p 42
LPCM 22.05kHz/16bit
LPCM 44.10kHz/16bit
LPCM 44.10kHz/24bit
LPCM 48.00kHz/16bit
LPCM 48.00kHz/24bit
LPCM 96.00kHz/16bit
LPCM 96.00kHz/24bit
MP3 44.10kHz/64kbps
MP3 44.10kHz/128kbps
MP3 44.10kHz/320kbps
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m10 is 24/96, too, or is it not? At any rate, 24/96 is dogs can hear only
:laugh:
I guess my point was that there is no reason someone using it as a voice recorder would be using 24/96, so it can't just be intended for voice. Or maybe it is. I'm wrong all the time!
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I guess my point was that there is no reason someone using it as a voice recorder would be using 24/96, so it can't just be intended for voice. Or maybe it is. I'm wrong all the time!
Given the photos, Sony clearly doesn't intend it to be used just as a voice recorder, even if they're categorizing it under "voice recorders."
Whether this makes it good enough for our purposes is an open question, but that was true for the R-07 when it came out, too. I'm cautiously optimistic, with an emphasis on the caution.
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Got mine today. The build quality feels about the same as the recent Roland R07. Nowhere near as solid as the M10, but compared to that, it's really tiny. Did a quick test of the iOS app. What I really liked about the R07 app is the fact that you can re-connect from within the iOS app. For the Sony A10, you actually have to switch to iOS' Bluetooth settings to make the connection, then switch back to the Sony app.
I have some shows this and next weekend, so I should be able to run some tests.
Here's a first picture for size comparison.
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I have some shows this and next weekend, so I should be able to run some tests.
I'm looking forward to reading about your findings!
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Never understood the sony fluffing.
Very happy with my Roland R-05!
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Does it run for 31 days? ;D
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Never understood the sony fluffing.
Very happy with my Roland R-05!
Thank you for this valuable contribution to the discussion.
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Never understood the sony fluffing.
Very happy with my Roland R-05!
ROLAND R-05??
What kind of Sony A-10 is that?
tell me more!!!??!
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I am curious to hear your results...
Where did you get it, btw? I haven't seen in on B&H or anywhere else.
Got mine today. The build quality feels about the same as the recent Roland R07. Nowhere near as solid as the M10, but compared to that, it's really tiny. Did a quick test of the iOS app. What I really liked about the R07 app is the fact that you can re-connect from within the iOS app. For the Sony A10, you actually have to switch to iOS' Bluetooth settings to make the connection, then switch back to the Sony app.
I have some shows this and next weekend, so I should be able to run some tests.
Here's a first picture for size comparison.
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Never understood the sony fluffing.
Very happy with my Roland R-05!
Thank you for this valuable contribution to the discussion.
You're welcome!
Have a good weekend! :cheers: ;D
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Where did you get it, btw? I haven't seen in on B&H or anywhere else.
I ordered it from German retailer Conrad (https://www.conrad.de/de/audio-recorder-sony-pcm-a10-schwarz-1784756.html). They had listed it to be available for a November 17 delivery, so I was very surprised when I got the shipping confirmation two days ago.
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Will definitely be following this thread. I love my M10 and I definitely want to stay with Sony since it's all I have been running since I started. Just really happy with their quality.
The sticker does say "High-res audio" :yack:
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Here are my preliminary findings after the first few days and the first show with the A10. I am comparing the A10 primarily to the recently released Roland R-07 and the older Sony PCM-M10 (for which the A10 might be Sony's successor). One focus point for me is the comparison of the Sony and Roland iOS apps (as I am mostly a stealth taper and these apps will be how I presume to be using my recorders most of the time).
- Build quality is on the same level as Roland R-07. Not as solid (and heavy) as the PCM-M10. It fits well into a hand.
- The A10 starts up really fast (in less than 5 seconds it's ready to record onto an SD card).
- Battery run time is exceptional. The specs (https://helpguide.sony.net/icd/pcma10/v1/en2/contents/TP0001684405.html) list 20 hours of recording time at 24/44.1. However, I was able record from the Line-in for 23.5 straight hours on a single charge.
- A completely discharged battery takes approximately 90 minutes to charge (via the USB ports on a 2014 MacBook Pro).
- The input is switchable between Mic and Line levels via a menu. However, this menu only exists on the device and not in the iOS app.
- By default, the A10 creates WAVE files that are 4 GB big. This is valid per the WAVE file specification. However, some programs can only handle files up to 2 GB. There is no way to change this behavior on the recorder
- You need to establish the Bluetooth connection via iOS Bluetooth settings. The Roland app lets you do this from within the app. For the Sony, there is one additional app switch required.
- I like the level meters on the A10 app better than the ones on the Roland app. They have the -12dB mark in the center and this feels much more like what I'm used to. In my opinion, the Roland app wastes way too much screen space to displaying levels below -20dB (where the details don't really interest me). Also, I like the fact that it gives me a number of the current peak level value. I also really like the fact that it displays the wave form from the last 10 or so seconds. I guess this makes it possible to spot problems like brickwalling early on during recording.
- The Sony app does not have a slider for setting the recording levels like the Roland app does. Therefore, changing levels can be quite slow as you need to repeatedly press the + or - buttons
- Setting recording levels on the Sony A10 is way easier than on the Roland R-07. On the Roland, once you push either the + or - button, a big popup appears on the screen with the current level value, obstructing the view of the level meters. The Sony keeps the level meters visible while adjusting levels. However, I must say that I still prefer the old PCM-M10's level wheel. It's way easier to make big adjustments with the wheel than to use discrete steps via the +/- buttons. On the other hand, for stealth situations it's nice to be able to engage the hold feature for the levels.
- The battery status is displayed on the Sony app, although it only displays the same icon as the device (a battery with 4 segments). The Roland app displays a percentage value, which I find more useful
- For cross memory recording, the manual of the A10 states that it's possible that some audio may get lost when switching from internal memory to SD card (or vice-versa).
I just came back from the first show with the A10. Actually, I took both the A10 and the Roland R-07 with me. I used a split cable to feed the same signal to both recorders. I uploaded the same song from both recordings. Both files are unedited, besides a little level bump of 1.2 dB on the R07 source to make both recordings the same volume.
The band is called Chvrches. This is Schoeps MK41V > tinybox > Sony PCM-A10 and Roland R-07. A10 levels were set to 9 and resulted in peaks at -5.5 dB, R07 levels were set to 18 and resulted in peaks at -6.7 dB.
Here's the WeTransfer link. Should be good for a week:
https://we.tl/t-XM2Nw4YrUr
I really can't hear a difference between the A10 and R-07. The frequency analysis shows a small difference around 20.5 kHz, but I guess years of loud shows left me incapable of hearing it. ;-)
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I'm not really in the market for a new small recorder, but I still want to say thanks for putting so much effort into this comparison.
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Awesome review!
Even after selling three decks to get down to four, I really want to hear the A10 mic in with babynbox. Despite after buying three 620s and having them all nodded. Sick!
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A completely discharged battery takes approximately 90 minutes to charge (via the USB ports on a 2014 MacBook Pro).
good to know a quick 15 minutes with a portable charger at setbreak seems like more than enough to carry you thru a second set
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Thanks, Sebastian, for the detailed report! This all sounds very promising, especially that long battery life.
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Excellent comparative review - thanks!
I know that most participants here regard use of built in mics with horror, but it might none the less be interesting if you were able to somehow compare the three in that respect. As is well known here, my opinion of the M10 mics is that the sound is good but the stereo image is useless. The Roland I think has the same mic design as the M10 (I am open to correction!). The A10 has cardioid mics that have a fighting chance of producing a stereo image - but maybe they sound crap for all that. Any comments?
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I'd also be curious to hear a side-by-side comparison of the M10 and A10, with similar inputs. Does the new device have the same built-in preamp quality, despite being only a single jack for both mic and line in?
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I'd also be curious to hear a side-by-side comparison of the M10 and A10, with similar inputs. Does the new device have the same built-in preamp quality, despite being only a single jack for both mic and line in?
I'm planning on doing that comp next. I don't think the single jack vs. multiple jacks thing has anything to do with the quality. To put it another way: We do not know that the M10 had separate preamps on the two separate inputs. And we don't know that the A10's input goes to a single preamp. Since it is switchable between Mic and Line input, it could theoretically also route to two separate preamps (although I highly doubt that).
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I'd also be curious to hear a side-by-side comparison of the M10 and A10, with similar inputs. Does the new device have the same built-in preamp quality, despite being only a single jack for both mic and line in?
I'm planning on doing that comp next. I don't think the single jack vs. multiple jacks thing has anything to do with the quality. To put it another way: We do not know that the M10 had separate preamps on the two separate inputs. And we don't know that the A10's input goes to a single preamp. Since it is switchable between Mic and Line input, it could theoretically also route to two separate preamps (although I highly doubt that).
All very likely, but I'm still eager to hear how your next comp comes out.
I am getting tempted to sell one of my M10s and buy an A10 so I can do some side-by-side tests myself...
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Thanks for the detailed report, Sebastian! Looking forward to hearing an M10/A10 comparison! But this looks like a great option for stealthing to move on from the M10.
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I took the A10 out to a festival the last two days and am really impressed with it. It worked perfectly and being able to control it with the iOS app is really nice. The A10 never left my pocket the whole weekend.
I also did a comparison against the PCM-M10. Like last time, this is the same signal fed to both the A10 and M10 via a splitter cable.
This is Father John Misty and I deliberately picked a song that has some dynamics:
https://we.tl/t-sCwTc1h4lT
In case you don't like the Father, maybe the Flaming Lips are more to your liking:
https://we.tl/t-LuM6M9B2Yq
So what do you guys think?
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Sounds outstanding to me. I can't discern any difference at all.
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Sebi does it seem to be more metal detector proof than the M-10. I have a bunch of Tascam DR-2D's and like the recorder but if the mic pre-amp is any good this may be the recorder to run with a babynbox for extreme security shows. The ios app does me no good since I am an apple is food / android user.
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Sebi does it seem to be more metal detector proof than the M-10. I have a bunch of Tascam DR-2D's and like the recorder but if the mic pre-amp is any good this may be the recorder to run with a babynbox for extreme security shows. The ios app does me no good since I am an apple is food / android user.
I have no means to properly test that, but the A10 feels way lighter and less metal than both the M10 and DR-2d (comparable to the remote of my Samsung TV).
I do have a hyper sensitive metal detector at home that I use on walls before drilling holes in them to make sure there are no pipes or wires. Both the M10 and A10 get picked up by it, but so are the rivets on my jeans. ;)
However, since no venues around here have MDs I can't really test it in a real world scenario. There are two big venues in Berlin that have MDs now, but I almost never ever tape there because usually the same shows come to Munich or Zurich (both way closer to me).
There is an Android app, too. And judging from the screenshots on the Google Play store, it looks identical to the iOS one.
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Thx. I am sure thee will be some reports here in the US where they are everywhere.
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Does the A10 have a lock all feature?
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Does the A10 have a lock all feature?
It has a hold switch that is combined with the power switch, similar to the M10. It locks all buttons, but the unit can still be controlled via the bluetooth app.
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Thanks!
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Just as a comment, the main reason for using omnidirectional built-in microphones in portable recorders is that they're ~20 dB less sensitive to wind noise and solid-borne sound (thumps, etc. from handling or from sound conducted to the recorder via the table or desk that the recorder may be placed on) than directional microphones would be. If there's any solid part of the recorder between the mikes, large enough to obstruct high frequency sound, then (between that and the physical spacing) there will still be some difference information between the channels from the midrange on up, and thus some stereo effect especially if headphones are used for listening.
This type of recorder is often marketed to people who know little or nothing about recording and want to keep it that way. By using the built-in ALC along with the built-in mikes, they can record business meetings and "life events" in a fully automatic way. The microphone arrangement is "stereo enough" that spoken words can be localized fairly well--which aids greatly in comprehension when the room is reverberant and/or the mikes aren't close to the people speaking.
At this point 96 kHz recording costs Sony almost nothing to throw in, and it looks good on a spec sheet / keeps the recorder from seeming to be outdated, so why not, even though it doesn't materially help anything soundwise.
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Hi Sebastian,
Did you run the mikes through a Battery Box? I have a Sony M10 with Church Ugly Battery Box and Church CA11 Cardioids - only thing I don't like about the M10 is it's size, risk of metal detection and the fact I have to buy a new pair of Duracells every concert for fear of them running out mid show. Recently stealthed Steven Wilson here in Melbourne and when I got outside the screen was blank!!!! I was in a panic till I got hime - fortunately the batteries ran out AFTER the final encore and I only lost some of the crowd noise as we exited the show with the house lights on!!! The internal battery sounds like a godsend for this issue. Battery boxes are a pain in the ass - from a stealth point of view they can be hard to explain - why would you carry a batter with a box and some wires into a venue ?? Sounds like something a terrorist would do - so I'm always conscious when I go in. If there was a way of lighting up external mikes from the recording device it would (1) Reduce the risk of a dodgy wire slipping out during the show, (2) be one less thing and one less wire to take in (3) One less battery to run out - so that would be a feature I'd love. I've recorded a lot of shows with this set up - the Wilson ones are on Yeeshkul (which is the only place PT and Wilson stuff is as Dime / TTD have him as an artist that's requested no ROIO - (I don't think he did - more like his management back in the PT days)) and I'm very happy with the quality sound from these shows - the RAH ones I did in 2015 with this rig are outstanding - even if I do say so myself. But I'm always interested in smaller, easier, safer, better quality. So my question really is - Do I have to use a BB with the Church CA11's with this device or does the device light them up? If not then I think it's on my Santa's list.
Cheers
Andy
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That must have been a looong Steven Wilson show. The M10 is renowned for its battery life.
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Did you run the mikes through a Battery Box?
Yes, my mics are powered by an external box. It's a Naiant tinybox. Do a Google image search to get an idea of what it is.
I have a Sony M10 with Church Ugly Battery Box and Church CA11 Cardioids - only thing I don't like about the M10 is it's size, risk of metal detection and the fact I have to buy a new pair of Duracells every concert for fear of them running out mid show.
Try good NiMH rechargeables with over 2000 mAh. They will last for over a day and you won't have to pollute the environment by using throw-away batteries.
Battery boxes are a pain in the ass - from a stealth point of view they can be hard to explain
I've never had to explain anything - because nobody ever saw any of my rig.
So my question really is - Do I have to use a BB with the Church CA11's with this device or does the device light them up? If not then I think it's on my Santa's list.
I can't test this as I don't have Church mics, but I would guess that the plug-in voltage the A10 provides is not enough for your mics (you probably won't find a small recorder that can do that).
In my opinion, the Church Ugly Battery Box and the mics are as small as rigs get these days. It should be possible to get that into any show.
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I am now officially confused about the A10 and whether it's an upgrade or just a rebranding of this:
http://designingsound.org/2017/05/15/sony-icd-sx2000-review/
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Believe this is it, marketed here in the USA as ICD-SX2000...
On sale at B&H for $150 for the next 15hrs. Scoop em up!
Actually, the ICD-SX2000 is an older model that has been around for a while:
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=177488
The A10 is a different recorder. Is has a slightly different button layout as well. The A10 has the power/hold switch on the same side as the input and the SD card slot, the SX2000 has the switch on the other side.
The PCM-A10 is marketed by Sony USA as, well, the PCM-A10:
https://www.sony.com/electronics/voice-recorders/pcm-a10
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Thanks, Sebastian. Guess I'll wait for the A10 to be available somewhere other than Best Buys in New Jersey:
https://www.sony.com/electronics/voice-recorders/pcm-a10/buy
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Did you run the mikes through a Battery Box?
Yes, my mics are powered by an external box. It's a Naiant tinybox. Do a Google image search to get an idea of what it is.
I have a Sony M10 with Church Ugly Battery Box and Church CA11 Cardioids - only thing I don't like about the M10 is it's size, risk of metal detection and the fact I have to buy a new pair of Duracells every concert for fear of them running out mid show.
Try good NiMH rechargeables with over 2000 mAh. They will last for over a day and you won't have to pollute the environment by using throw-away batteries.
Battery boxes are a pain in the ass - from a stealth point of view they can be hard to explain
I've never had to explain anything - because nobody ever saw any of my rig.
So my question really is - Do I have to use a BB with the Church CA11's with this device or does the device light them up? If not then I think it's on my Santa's list.
I can't test this as I don't have Church mics, but I would guess that the plug-in voltage the A10 provides is not enough for your mics (you probably won't find a small recorder that can do that).
In my opinion, the Church Ugly Battery Box and the mics are as small as rigs get these days. It should be possible to get that into any show.
Thanks Sebastian,
All clear. You are quite correct - the Church gear is small - and I've never been busted - but that doesn't stop me worrying about it! Going to a show out here in Kangaroo Land is not cheap - seeing an act like Steven Wilson is $125, seeing someone like Roger Waters is $250-400 depending on where you want to be. Last thing you want when you've shelled out those amounts is getting politely asked to leave the venue!! OR worse- getting zapped by a metal detector and not even getting in... So far, the main venues here in Oz don't have walk through metal detectors as they do in airports - just hired agency labour waving wands at you as you go through. With the recent events though I'm guessing it's only a matter of time before we're taking our belts off, dropping our phones into trays and walking through gates. I question the quality of the wands - and the staff they employ to wave them - I walked in to Roger Waters last year at the Rod Laver and was "wanded" - I was carrying my phone, had my PCM M10 behind my belt buckle just in case, wires running up and down my back, battery box in my pocket, etc - nothing registered on the wand. My tactic is to not be first in line and not be last in line - be in the "everyone keen to getting in crowd, security bored, big crowds waiting at the gates, time"- by this point they are just keen to get everyone through. If you're first in line they are super thorough, if you're last in line the same.....
I will definitely be checking out the batteries you mention - I made a mistake last time by putting in NEW but cheap AA batteries into the PCM - I turned the PCM on once seated - probably 45 minutes before the show started (I don't like messing about - turn it on, check the levels as the show kicks off, lock the device switch and leave well alone until I'm out of the venue - with the occasional check of levels during loud bits). It was a 3 hour show (with interval) and it took another 20 minutes to get out at the end and into the carpark - so I'm guessing the PCM was running 4 hours - and the screen was blank and the device not responding to key strokes when I got to the car. Gave me a shock..
I've, in the past, taken the gear into the show and then "set up" in the bathrooms - but it's not really ideal and if there's no trap available not really practical. I prefer to rig up at home and walk in ready to go - but this means wires etc in place for agency staff to detect using wands !!! Not sure wires would trigger one - but my wires run down my back - hard to explain if they did trigger a wand....
Maybe I need to go back to setting up at the show - wires in pockets next to phone and PCM, battery box secreted and hope for the best....
Or maybe I'm just over thinking it and security wands and never going to be an issue with the amount of metal in the wires / battery box...
Thanks for all your info - the other thing I like about the A10 is it looks more like a phone than the M10 - a quick wave at a 55 year old agency security staff and I don't think they'd question it....
Cheers
Andy
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Can't believe some people stress about stealth audio so much.
I stealth audio and camcorder video at the same time. 2 full rigs. Including monopod.
Audio only is a joke.
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If you're only getting 4 hours of record time from an M10 with brand-new batteries, something is very wrong. Running plug-in power will eat up the batteries somewhat faster, but I wouldn't think that much faster.
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Can't believe some people stress about stealth audio so much.
I stealth audio and camcorder video at the same time. 2 full rigs. Including monopod.
Audio only is a joke.
yeah being assauted by security guards was enough for me to stay low pro
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Can't believe some people stress about stealth audio so much.
I stealth audio and camcorder video at the same time. 2 full rigs. Including monopod.
Audio only is a joke.
Says the taper who only has to run AT>deck.
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Can't believe some people stress about stealth audio so much.
I stealth audio and camcorder video at the same time. 2 full rigs. Including monopod.
Audio only is a joke.
Says the taper who only has to run AT>deck.
-I always use a preamp or battery box.
-I've recorded stealth with a pair of full bodies naks as well.
Audio only is a joke. Always.
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Can't believe some people stress about stealth audio so much.
I stealth audio and camcorder video at the same time. 2 full rigs. Including monopod.
Audio only is a joke.
Says the taper who only has to run AT>deck.
-I always use a preamp or battery box.
-I've recorded stealth with a pair of full bodies naks as well.
Audio only is a joke. Always.
Since I rarely watch video no reason for me to run video and I seriously doubt you are running video from dfc in front of the board where audio sounds best. Running audio only where you can safely run video is a joke, that I will agree. The ideal situation is for someone to run video where it is best and someone to run the best audio and then combine in post IMHO.
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Since I rarely watch video no reason for me to run video and I seriously doubt you are running video from dfc in front of the board where audio sounds best. Running audio only where you can safely run video is a joke, that I will agree. The ideal situation is for someone to run video where it is best and someone to run the best audio and then combine in post IMHO.
Don't feed the troll.
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Hmm. This isn't normally a forum where people get cranky with each other.
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Hello Tapers!
I am here for longer as an occasional reader, but from now on with an active account, so I’d like to say “Hello” first to all in the forum. :)
I bought a PCM-A10 last week and I am not complete sure what to think about it. So I like to prepare a small review but this will take a bit longer than my post right now. I provide you just with my thoughts and first impressions. Sebastian already posted good infos on it and I like to add mine.
Pros:
- The PCM-A10 is Gorgeous! It’s light, easy to use and has a great design. This separates it from Roland and very much from the Zoom devices (in my eyes, for sure ;) )
- Handling and menu-operations are great, it turns on in a second and setting input level is fast and easy, so is the hold button.
- compared to the ICD-SX2000 it can record 96/24 onto the SD Card (I don’t have the Sx2000, but it seems to be a limitation of the device).
- For the few worrying about metal detectors. I was passing one with the A10 in the pocket and it was no issue.
Cons:
- First Impression of the Build-In Mic is mediocre, not bad, but also not very detailed and with a well recognizable noisefloor*. To judge this, I like to post some samples.
- Headphone amp is not impressive. It is not suited for demanding Headphones I guess*.
After all, Design and Usage are perfect! But I still struggle on the Sound part*.
I lent a PCM-M10 from a friend now to have some testings. It’s good to see the comparison from Sebastian with the Roland R-07. From there it looks like the Line IN quality is comparable. After a first Test I had the impression that the Line IN from the M10 is still better.
*I have to clarify, I own and love a Sony PCM-D100, so maybe I am spoiled on the sound part and I expected too much from this little device. I quite comparing it with the A10.
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Thanks for that! It will be interesting to hear samples when you have time - including from the built in mics, even though many people don't use them, some people do sometimes.
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I just uploaded a recording made with the A10 to the LMA:
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=188838.0
Several others are on Dime:
http://www.dimeadozen.org/torrents-browse.php?search=%2Bsony+%2B%22pcm-a10%22
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I just uploaded a recording made with the A10 to the LMA:
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=188838.0
Wow, seems there is no issue with the Line IN at all! :D Thanks for sharing, I just listen to it..
I did some Tests and put some sample files on the following page:
http://www.luzz.de/sub/audio/a10/index.html
It's very improvised but i didn't know were to put audio files best on the web.
What I can tell is that LineIN works good so far. I figured out that there is a slight drop in low frequencies below 200hz. It's linear so a frequency of about 80hz has about 1-1,5db less gain. Compared to the M10, the M10 doesn't have this behaviour but therefore it adds some high frequencies noise above 25khz. ;)
I will add some Field recordings in the next days. Would love to test it with a good pluginpowered mic to judge the buildin Mic amp. Sadly my external Mic is very poor, I look if there is any difference to the M10 and D100 with it.
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Hello Tapers!
I am here for longer as an occasional reader, but from now on with an active account, so I’d like to say “Hello” first to all in the forum. :)
I bought a PCM-A10 last week and I am not complete sure what to think about it. So I like to prepare a small review but this will take a bit longer than my post right now. I provide you just with my thoughts and first impressions. Sebastian already posted good infos on it and I like to add mine.
Pros:
- The PCM-A10 is Gorgeous! It’s light, easy to use and has a great design. This separates it from Roland and very much from the Zoom devices (in my eyes, for sure ;) )
- Handling and menu-operations are great, it turns on in a second and setting input level is fast and easy, so is the hold button.
- compared to the ICD-SX2000 it can record 96/24 onto the SD Card (I don’t have the Sx2000, but it seems to be a limitation of the device).
- For the few worrying about metal detectors. I was passing one with the A10 in the pocket and it was no issue.
Cons:
- First Impression of the Build-In Mic is mediocre, not bad, but also not very detailed and with a well recognizable noisefloor*. To judge this, I like to post some samples.
- Headphone amp is not impressive. It is not suited for demanding Headphones I guess*.
After all, Design and Usage are perfect! But I still struggle on the Sound part*.
I lent a PCM-M10 from a friend now to have some testings. It’s good to see the comparison from Sebastian with the Roland R-07. From there it looks like the Line IN quality is comparable. After a first Test I had the impression that the Line IN from the M10 is still better.
*I have to clarify, I own and love a Sony PCM-D100, so maybe I am spoiled on the sound part and I expected too much from this little device. I quite comparing it with the A10.
Walkthroughs or wands? That bit of news is positive.
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- For the few worrying about metal detectors. I was passing one with the A10 in the pocket and it was no issue.
Walkthroughs or wands? That bit of news is positive.
It was a Walkthrough, I prepared myself to explain my Mp3 Player, but there was no alarm nor question. In another pocket was my mobile, so I assume the detection is comparable and less (because of its size).
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It was a Walkthrough, I prepared myself to explain my Mp3 Player, but there was no alarm nor question. In another pocket was my mobile, so I assume the detection is comparable and less (because of its size).
Was that in Berlin? I have a friend who actually set that one off with his MBHOs/tinybox/DR-2d recently, but apparently it was still easy to get that stuff inside.
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Was that in Berlin? I have a friend who actually set that one off with his MBHOs/tinybox/DR-2d recently, but apparently it was still easy to get that stuff inside.
Yes it was in Berlin in the O2/Mercedes Arena, you got me. I made an rare exception! :D
BTW, Sebastian, did you test your A10s Mic IN with a PluginPowered Mic directly? Any thoughts how it is compared to other recorders you own?
I mean I am still blown from your the Decemberist recording. It demonstrate what a very good mic can do. This changes more than the tiny bits on the recorder I suppose.
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Yes it was in Berlin in the O2/Mercedes Arena, you got me. I made an rare exception! :D
BTW, Sebastian, did you test your A10s Mic IN with a PluginPowered Mic directly? Any thoughts how it is compared to other recorders you own?
I mean I am still blown from your the Decemberist recording. It demonstrate what a very good mic can do. This changes more than the tiny bits on the recorder I suppose.
It's good to know several people have successfully beat the walk-throughs at the AEG-operated venues in Berlin. ;)
No, I haven't tested the A10 with a plug-in powered mic as I don't really run one. Sorry.
But if you like the Decemberists recording, wait for the Ryley Walker set from the same festival. :-)
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- For the few worrying about metal detectors. I was passing one with the A10 in the pocket and it was no issue.
Walkthroughs or wands? That bit of news is positive.
It was a Walkthrough, I prepared myself to explain my Mp3 Player, but there was no alarm nor question. In another pocket was my mobile, so I assume the detection is comparable and less (because of its size).
good job, good to know.
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Well, I've been waiting for this to show up in N. America. Now the product page has been dropped from the Sony USA website. Maybe some kind of FCC problem with the Bluetooth?
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It's now showing up here:
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1447756-REG/sony_pcm_a10_high_resolution_audio_recorder.html/?ap=y&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIsbW9oZGO3wIVDA9pCh1ceANNEAQYASABEgJUevD_BwE&smp=Y
Not in stock yet, but arriving soon.
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It's now showing up here:
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1447756-REG/sony_pcm_a10_high_resolution_audio_recorder.html/?ap=y&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIsbW9oZGO3wIVDA9pCh1ceANNEAQYASABEgJUevD_BwE&smp=Y
Not in stock yet, but arriving soon.
Great! Thanks for the link.
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What I can tell is that LineIN works good so far. I figured out that there is a slight drop in low frequencies below 200hz. It's linear so a frequency of about 80hz has about 1-1,5db less gain.
What? Seriously? That is not good!
How did you measure/test this?
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Here's one with a bit more low end. :-)
https://archive.org/details/ryleywalker2018-11-17.mk41v.flac16
I did run the same signal into both the A10 and M10 for a few shows and really couldn't make out a difference.
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can somebody has info about max SPL ?
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can somebody has info about max SPL ?
From the manual (https://helpguide.sony.net/icd/pcma10/v1/en2/contents/TP0001684402.html):
"Maximum sound pressure (built-in microphones): 123 dBSPL"
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What I can tell is that LineIN works good so far. I figured out that there is a slight drop in low frequencies below 200hz. It's linear so a frequency of about 80hz has about 1-1,5db less gain.
What? Seriously? That is not good!
How did you measure/test this?
First I estimated this when I looked at the waveform of some low synthesizer signals below 200hz.
But now I tried to do a test wich might show it a bit better. It's "Pixelpeeping" and I think Sebastian is right when he says, that there is no audible difference between them , and in the end, That's what counts.
Anyway here is what I did:
First I prepared a signal test with the sine wave generator in Audacity.
This is the Waveform of the testtone.
(http://www.luzz.de/sub/audio/a10/image/thumb/FR_Ref.jpg)
www.luzz.de/sub/audio/a10/image/FR_Ref.PNG (http://www.luzz.de/sub/audio/a10/image/FR_Ref.PNG) Please use this link to open the image in full resolution.
First three tones (I forgot what frequency exactly, but according to audition they are ca. 35Hz, 3K and 14k) followed by a the range from 30Hz up to 25KHz.
This file I played in Audition with the Roland UA-M10 LineOut into the three recorders available here:
1. PCM-D100 with dedicated Line IN:
(http://www.luzz.de/sub/audio/a10/image/thumb/FR_D100.jpg)
www.luzz.de/sub/audio/a10/image/FR_D100.PNG (http://www.luzz.de/sub/audio/a10/image/FR_D100.PNG)
As you see, there are some flaws, but the signal is pretty clean and linear, I come up with a closer look later.
2. PCM-M10 with dedicated Line IN:
(http://www.luzz.de/sub/audio/a10/image/thumb/FR_M10.jpg)
www.luzz.de/sub/audio/a10/image/FR_M10.PNG (http://www.luzz.de/sub/audio/a10/image/FR_M10.PNG)
looks linear to!
3. PCM-A10 in LineIN Mode:
(http://www.luzz.de/sub/audio/a10/image/thumb/FR_A10.jpg)
www.luzz.de/sub/audio/a10/image/FR_A10.PNG (http://www.luzz.de/sub/audio/a10/image/FR_A10.PNG)
If you look at the first Test Tone (35Hz) it has less gain than the rest of the file, about -2db. Also the overall signal is a bit "wavy" and not as linear as it is in the M10 or D100.
This looks strange but is no issue at all, for Recording, this would be easy to EQ if someone takes notice of it at all.
Now some zoomed-in images of the point where the frequency range starts.
1. PCM-D100:
(http://www.luzz.de/sub/audio/a10/image/thumb/FR_D100_Detail.jpg)
www.luzz.de/sub/audio/a10/image/FR_D100_Detail.PNG (http://www.luzz.de/sub/audio/a10/image/FR_D100_Detail.PNG)
Surprise, on the D100 there is not a drop in the levels, but there is some kind of "bend" in the waveform, I can't explain this, maybe someone can ;). It could also be the Soundcard producing it. The "Bend" is over at about 100hz and it shows up linear from this point on. The deviation of the bend is close to nothing and it's funny to talk about. Also the D100s signal is almost clean.
2. PCM-M10:
(http://www.luzz.de/sub/audio/a10/image/thumb/FR_M10_Detail.jpg)
www.luzz.de/sub/audio/a10/image/FR_M10_Detail.PNG (http://www.luzz.de/sub/audio/a10/image/FR_M10_Detail.PNG)
The M10 also has this kind of "bend", not worth mentioning. In the signal there are some unplanned frequency signals. Look at the Scale in wich level region they are, so they shouldn't bother any bats ;).
3. PCM-A10:
(http://www.luzz.de/sub/audio/a10/image/thumb/FR_A10_Detail.jpg)
www.luzz.de/sub/audio/a10/image/FR_A10_Detail.PNG (http://www.luzz.de/sub/audio/a10/image/FR_A10_Detail.PNG)
On the A10 you see, there is a small Level drop, It's below 40Hz, from 40Hz up it reacts just as the two other family members above.
My conclusion:
this is all theory, and it will not bother you in real-recording-life. It seems that the said frequency response in the datasheet of the A10 is actually true, and there is no cut below 40Hz but there is a small drop wich you can EQ if there is a need for. Maybe the news is, that the frequency response applies to the LineIN mode also and not only for the internal mics.
Beside this, the A10 is great to handle, small and light. This is a much bigger difference to other portable recorders, than this sound issue is. And I have to admit I might did some mistakes in this test, I am not a professional tester :cheers:
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Many thanks!
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www.luzz.de/sub/audio/a10/image/FR_D100_Detail.PNG (http://www.luzz.de/sub/audio/a10/image/FR_D100_Detail.PNG)
Surprise, on the D100 there is not a drop in the levels, but there is some kind of "bend" in the waveform, I can't explain this, maybe someone can ;) . It could also be the Soundcard producing it. The "Bend" is over at about 100hz and it shows up linear from this point on. The deviation of the bend is close to nothing and it's funny to talk about. Also the D100s signal is almost clean.
...(snip)
My conclusion:
this is all theory, and it will not bother you in real-recording-life. It seems that the said frequency response in the datasheet of the A10 is actually true, and there is no cut below 40Hz but there is a small drop wich you can EQ if there is a need for. Maybe the news is, that the frequency response applies to the LineIN mode also and not only for the internal mics.
Beside this, the A10 is great to handle, small and light. This is a much bigger difference to other portable recorders, than this sound issue is. And I have to admit I might did some mistakes in this test, I am not a professional tester :cheers:
I sure appreciate your efforts! I think the "bend" you see might just be the difference between what we expect to see when we look at a sine wave, and what Audacity makes when you have it sweep frequencies upwards.
Can you provide the file so I can test my PCM-M10, PCM-D50, Tascam DR-70D and my SD Mixpre6?
:-)
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The frequency range of my microphone capsules starts at 40 Hz (https://schoeps.de/en/products/colette/capsules/supercardioids/mk-41v.html#section-catalogs). Maybe that's the reason why I couldn't make out a difference.
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Can you provide the file so I can test my PCM-M10, PCM-D50, Tascam DR-70D and my SD Mixpre6?
:-)
Sure,
take it from here:
frequencyrange_testfile (wav ca.30MB) (https://www.luzz.de/sub/audio/frequencyrange_testfile.wav)
Would be very intersting to see if there are differences between your recorders.
The frequency range of my microphone capsules starts at 40 Hz (https://schoeps.de/en/products/colette/capsules/supercardioids/mk-41v.html#section-catalogs). Maybe that's the reason why I couldn't make out a difference.
And even when they start at 20Hz it would be not a big deal ;) If I listen to your recordings, I think there is not much missing.
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As of two weeks ago Best Buy was listed as carrying the A10 storefront, but not online.
Now I can't find anything that says they carry it.
Just as I was about to go out and grab one...
Sorta frustrating that it has barely made its way into the US market.
(Yes I know B&H carries it, but I have a Best Buy gift card)
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Speaking of B&H, they charged my credit card today for $245.51 and changed the status of the order to "In stock, order sent to warehouse".
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Speaking of B&H, they charged my credit card today for $245.51 and changed the status of the order to "In stock, order sent to warehouse".
Great news. I'd love to hear your impressions when you receive it. I'll probably purchase after the New Year, but would like a little more info/impressions. I would probably mainly use the A10 with external spoken voice mike (e.g. Shure SM58 or plugin powered lav mic), sometimes with binaural mics for ambient sounds, and a few times with other mics for live music.
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- For the few worrying about metal detectors. I was passing one with the A10 in the pocket and it was no issue.
Walkthroughs or wands? That bit of news is positive.
It was a Walkthrough, I prepared myself to explain my Mp3 Player, but there was no alarm nor question. In another pocket was my mobile, so I assume the detection is comparable and less (because of its size).
if your phone didn't trip it then the setting was prob really low.
Handhelds and walk through here trip on my iPhone all day but when out of town recently didn't trip a walk through
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Speaking of B&H, they charged my credit card today for $245.51 and changed the status of the order to "In stock, order sent to warehouse".
Great news. I'd love to hear your impressions when you receive it. I'll probably purchase after the New Year, but would like a little more info/impressions. I would probably mainly use the A10 with external spoken voice mike (e.g. Shure SM58 or plugin powered lav mic), sometimes with binaural mics for ambient sounds, and a few times with other mics for live music.
Haven't had a chance to do anything with it yet other than unbox it. Assuming it sounds good line in with a sonosax, I will definitely be replacing the mixpre3 with the sax>pcm-a10 based on size alone for stealthing. This thing is tiny.
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Over the holidays I finally got around to some preamp noise measurements. I used the method suggested by Sound Devices (https://www.sounddevices.com/tech-notes/microphone-preamp-noise) with a 150Ω resistor between input signal and ground.
I first calibrated a few recorders (A10, M10, MixPre-6) to the same input levels using a signal generated by the Zoom F8's tone generator. I then replaced the input with a 150Ω resistor to emulate the load of a typical microphone. I recorded a few seconds and measured the resulting WAVE file's peak value.
Here are the results:
150Ω test results:
| Description | | Input Calibrated To | | Value |
| A10 Mic Input | | -4.0 dB | | -80.0 dB |
| M10 Mic Input | | -4.0 dB | | -72.3 dB |
| MixPre-6 Mic Input 1 | | -4.0 dB | | -92.2 dB |
| A10 Line Input | | -10.0 dB | | -81.6 dB |
| M10 Line Input | | -10.0 dB | | -75.0 dB |
| MixPre-6 Line Input 1 | | -10.0 dB | | -92.2 dB |
This shows that the A10's inputs are a little bit quieter than the M10's. Unsurprisingly, the MixPre-6 is in a whole different league, especially when compared to the M10.
Edit note: An earlier version of this post contained incorrect measurement values. These have been corrected.
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^^
Thanks Sebastian!
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Over the holidays I finally got around to some preamp noise measurements. I used the method suggested by Sound Devices (https://www.sounddevices.com/tech-notes/microphone-preamp-noise) with a 150Ω resistor between input signal and ground.
Thanks for that. A very reassuring result! The M10-A10 are so close that they probably use the same analog front end for the mic-in.
With the smallest handheld recorders, when it comes to sound quality & low noise , Sony seem to have always had the edge over the competition, way back through MiniDisc, the pro walkman D6 & beyond. Olympus popped up for a brief while with the LS10-11, but now seem to have reverted to their home ground of voice recorders.
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Now if this thing would just crack the US market to retailers outside of B&H...
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Lutzow, in message #94 you pointed out a strange "bend" in the waveforms recorded by the D100 and M10. That is a small, negative DC offset which slowly corrects itself. I have no idea what causes it, though.
Sebastian, do you still have the WAV files from your input noise tests? I'd like to see them if I may. The enormous degree of difference that you found among the recorders is quite odd.
--best regards
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Sebastian, do you still have the WAV files from your input noise tests? I'd like to see them if I may. The enormous degree of difference that you found among the recorders is quite odd.
As always, David is right. I seem to have made a mistake with my original measurements. Some of the WAVE files contained peaks at the start or end of the files. I have no idea what caused them (probably some kind of handling noise), but when analyzing only the part of the audio without those peaks, the results are way more consistent. Therefore, I have edited my original post to reflect the corrected values. Could everyone who quoted those please edit their posts, so no future reader will get confused?
Anyway, I just finished a new test with a 220Ω resistor (which is the output impedance of my tinybox) and the new results are listed below. I also tested the MixPre's Aux input, which seems to be significantly louder than all the other recorders.
Please note that the dB values CAN NOT be compared between tests because the recorders are newly calibrated for each test. What can be compared are the relative differences between recorders in each test.
220Ω test results:
| Description | | Input Calibrated To | | Value |
| A10 Mic Input | | -6.0 dB | | -85.3 dB |
| M10 Mic Input | | -6.0 dB | | -75.9 dB |
| MixPre-6 Mic Input 1 | | -6.0 dB | | -99.6 dB |
| MixPre-6 Aux Input 5 | | -6.0 dB | | -65.4 dB |
I have uploaded all files from both tests here:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1L7-jZ-l5_YRqOYLaKM8DBZTEBKK9oKKz
Please note that for the A10 and M10 recordings, only the left channel was connected to the load resistor. Therefore, only the results of the left channels are significant for the tests. Please ignore the right channels.
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Sebastian, do you still have the WAV files from your input noise tests? I'd like to see them if I may. The enormous degree of difference that you found among the recorders is quite odd.
As always, David is right. I seem to have made a mistake with my original measurements. Some of the WAVE files contained peaks at the start or end of the files. I have no idea what caused them (probably some kind of handling noise), but when analyzing only the part of the audio without those peaks, the results are way more consistent. Therefore, I have edited my original post to reflect the corrected values. Could everyone who quoted those please edit their posts, so no future reader will get confused?
Anyway, I just finished a new test with a 220Ω resistor (which is the output impedance of my tinybox) and the new results are listed below. I also tested the MixPre's Aux input, which seems to be significantly louder than all the other recorders.
Please note that the dB values CAN NOT be compared between tests because the recorders are newly calibrated for each test. What can be compared are the relative differences between recorders in each test.
220Ω test results:
| Description | | Input Calibrated To | | Value |
| A10 Mic Input | | -6.0 dB | | -85.3 dB |
| M10 Mic Input | | -6.0 dB | | -75.9 dB |
| MixPre-6 Mic Input 1 | | -6.0 dB | | -99.6 dB |
| MixPre-6 Aux Input 5 | | -6.0 dB | | -65.4 dB |
I have uploaded all files from both tests here:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1L7-jZ-l5_YRqOYLaKM8DBZTEBKK9oKKz
Please note that for the A10 and M10 recordings, only the left channel was connected to the load resistor. Therefore, only the results of the left channels are significant for the tests. Please ignore the right channels.
thanks
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^^ Thanks for doing these tests and posting your results, Sebastian! Very interesting. Just to clarify: I assume that the MixPre aux-in test was performed using the mic setting? Also, I assume phantom/PIP was always off?
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I assume that the MixPre aux-in test was performed using the mic setting? Also, I assume phantom/PIP was always off?
All your assumptions are correct. :-)
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Sebastian, thank you, but:
[1] I am most assuredly not always right.
[2] See #1 (because I am most assuredly right about #1).
[3] Your revised figures look a lot more like what I would expect. Also, they agree with the measurement results that I got with an M10 a few years ago, in which the 24-bit recording setting gave AT MOST MAYBE 1 dB lower noise than the 16-bit setting. (Which is a real cognitive trap, since with the recorder set to "24 bits", a person might well think that it was OK to record with maximum peaks at -15 or even lower ...)
--best regards
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There is some great technical information about the A10 in this post and I sure do appreciate it. I am also wondering if anyone has any feedback from actual field recording experience with the A10? I understand it just came out, especially in the US, and am wondering what some of the more experienced tapers (I am a newbie to the game) think of the unit. I am very curious how tapers (if anyone has) compare it to the M10 and Roland R-07 for practical purposes and in terms of the different features? I am trying to decide on what recorder to buy and am biding my time until I get a better understanding of what the A10 is capable of. Thank you everyone, I really appreciate this site, especially as I enter into this "hobby". Peace.
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There is some great technical information about the A10 in this post and I sure do appreciate it. I am also wondering if anyone has any feedback from actual field recording experience with the A10? I understand it just came out, especially in the US, and am wondering what some of the more experienced tapers (I am a newbie to the game) think of the unit. I am very curious how tapers (if anyone has) compare it to the M10 and Roland R-07 for practical purposes and in terms of the different features? I am trying to decide on what recorder to buy and am biding my time until I get a better understanding of what the A10 is capable of. Thank you everyone, I really appreciate this site, especially as I enter into this "hobby". Peace.
A few pages back, there are samples from shows. I cannot tell the difference between sources. I am looking forward to grabbing this unit!
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- Setting recording levels on the Sony A10 is way easier than on the Roland R-07. On the Roland, once you push either the + or - button, a big popup appears on the screen with the current level value, obstructing the view of the level meters. The Sony keeps the level meters visible while adjusting levels. However, I must say that I still prefer the old PCM-M10's level wheel. It's way easier to make big adjustments with the wheel than to use discrete steps via the +/- buttons. On the other hand, for stealth situations it's nice to be able to engage the hold feature for the levels.
Sebastian - thanks for the comparison.
I'm assuming from context that you say that levels can be adjusted on the unit while recording - is that correctly understood? (I am asking because it was my understanding that ICD-SX2000 would need to be paused prior to making level adjustments on the unit - it was my impression that adjustments could only be made live via the APP).
Another question: When making a Level change on the A10, can you see the level value on the A10 screen so you know how much you "turned the knob"?
Thanks
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I'm assuming from context that you say that levels can be adjusted on the unit while recording - is that correctly understood?
Yes. They can be changed while recording, both on the unit and via the app.
Another question: When making a Level change on the A10, can you see the level value on the A10 screen so you know how much you "turned the knob"?
Yes. It has a level scale that goes from 0 (off) to 30 (full gain). It also has a segmented level meter. Next to that, the current peak value is displayed as a decimal number (together with the usual "over" indicator). All of these values are displayed during recording and when changing the level setting. Actually, the screen layout does not change when adjusting levels - only the level scale value that is displayed does.
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... I am also wondering if anyone has any feedback from actual field recording experience with the A10? ...
Hi Peter,
I actually use it mostly for field recording, I am not into taping shows so much and I use the build in mics mostly. So the same way I use my PCM D100. And I compared it to the M10 too. (here are to Samples from the Beginning http://www.luzz.de/sub/audio/a10/index.html ) I own it now for over a month and I can tell you, the key feature of the A10 is size and weight!
From day one on I carry it with me in my pocket and I also started to use it as a dictaphone as well. Its great to have the feeling of beeing "prepared" if some interesting sounds appear.
I also considered the R-07 and the A10 looks much better and is even smaller. Beside the better usability in terms of leveling, display and startup. Also it is fun to adjust the mic angles (doesn't change much ;) ). Additionally the guy in the shop told me the R-07 has a delay when monitoring the recording via headphones and this turned me off.
Another big point for the Sonys (D M A) is Battery Life. As long as the A10 charges via USB it is pretty hard to bring it near 50% power till you reconnect it to get the files from the device.
So the Pros are:
- Great mobility! (Size and Weight)
- Display
- Usability
- Design (I love the Design! :) )
- Battery life
In my Opinion I see some big cons using it for Field Recording too. First of all, the build in Mic quality is not impressive. Its good and it might be even better than the R-07 or the Zoom H1/H2 (I don't know) build-ins. Second, the Headphone amp is weak, again this can be equal to others in this range, like the Zooms or the R-07. I can only compare to the Zoom H5 and I didn't like the Headphone amp either ;). The D100 is in both points on another planet. Also the M10s build in Omnis are better for Ambience Sounds and have a lower noise floor.
Cons:
- Build in Mics are mediocre (In the Field I think it's great if you use some good PiP Mics)
- Handling noise is an issue
- Weak headphone amp
Best
Lutz
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My A10 just arrived.
Before sell my M10, I did some simple test A10 and M10.
# Rec level
The A10 has 1~30 of input level.
2.5 of M10 is similar with 2 of A10 under Mic-IN setting.
4.0 of M10 is similar with 1 of A10 under Audio(Line)-IN setting.
I think the M10 has a wider range of gain control.
# Unity gain (?)
I'm not sure this is correct way to measure the unity gain.
Wav file (1K tone, -12dB) > M10 (Line-OUT) > A10 (Audio-IN)
Level 7 : -13.08dB
Level 8 : -11.58dB
# Plug-in Power
Like the M10, the A10 could power the PIP mics when set Mic-in not Audio-in.
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Thank you everyone for all of the testing, nothing I could do on my own.
But, do we have a "sweet spot" to set the levels on the A10? The M10 seems to be 4 to 6... the point that the music is captured without being amplified nor attenuated by the deck itself... leaving us room to edit in post if we so choose to.
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As always, David is right. I seem to have made a mistake with my original measurements. Some of the WAVE files contained peaks at the start or end of the files. I have no idea what caused them (probably some kind of handling noise), but when analyzing only the part of the audio without those peaks, the results are way more consistent. Therefore, I have edited my original post to reflect the corrected values. Could everyone who quoted those please edit their posts, so no future reader will get confused?
Anyway, I just finished a new test with a 220Ω resistor (which is the output impedance of my tinybox) and the new results are listed below. I also tested the MixPre's Aux input, which seems to be significantly louder than all the other recorders.
Please note that the dB values CAN NOT be compared between tests because the recorders are newly calibrated for each test. What can be compared are the relative differences between recorders in each test.
220Ω test results:
| Description | | Input Calibrated To | | Value |
| A10 Mic Input | | -6.0 dB | | -85.3 dB |
| M10 Mic Input | | -6.0 dB | | -75.9 dB |
| MixPre-6 Mic Input 1 | | -6.0 dB | | -99.6 dB |
| MixPre-6 Aux Input 5 | | -6.0 dB | | -65.4 dB |
I have uploaded all files from both tests here:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1L7-jZ-l5_YRqOYLaKM8DBZTEBKK9oKKz
Please note that for the A10 and M10 recordings, only the left channel was connected to the load resistor. Therefore, only the results of the left channels are significant for the tests. Please ignore the right channels.
Sorry I'm still relatively amateur on audio, but I currently have an M10 and was curious as to how the preamps/noise are compared to the A10? I use my M10 to plug in a line-in to record events or plug a lav mic into it, so I'm just curious as to if the A10 is better, comparable or worse than the M10 in these uses?
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anybody know how this compares to R07 on line and mic in noise? i know we had the comp in the beginning but was noise ever measured?
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Sorry I'm still relatively amateur on audio, but I currently have an M10 and was curious as to how the preamps/noise are compared to the A10? I use my M10 to plug in a line-in to record events or plug a lav mic into it, so I'm just curious as to if the A10 is better, comparable or worse than the M10 in these uses?
The A10 is about 10dB quieter than the M10, which is important for recording quiet sounds, recording music with great dynamics or just for running your levels lower (lower noise floor = less audible noise). It is also important for 24-bit recording (to make use of the additional bits, the noise floor should be low enough so these bits are not just noise).
anybody know how this compares to R07 on line and mic in noise? i know we had the comp in the beginning but was noise ever measured?
No. I returned the R07 before I had time to do those tests.
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The A10 is about 10dB quieter than the M10, which is important for recording quiet sounds, recording music with great dynamics or just for running your levels lower (lower noise floor = less audible noise). It is also important for 24-bit recording (to make use of the additional bits, the noise floor should be low enough so these bits are not just noise).
Thank you! So is the M10 better in any way than the A10 (besides battery life)? Built-in mics?
Does the A10 also have an "auto" gain mode like the M10 does? I know you shouldn't use auto, but it was always so useful for me on the M10 when I can't monitor the audio.
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The A10 is about 10dB quieter than the M10, which is important for recording quiet sounds, recording music with great dynamics or just for running your levels lower (lower noise floor = less audible noise). It is also important for 24-bit recording (to make use of the additional bits, the noise floor should be low enough so these bits are not just noise).
Thank you! So is the M10 better in any way than the A10 (besides battery life)? Built-in mics?
Does the A10 also have an "auto" gain mode like the M10 does? I know you shouldn't use auto, but it was always so useful for me on the M10 when I can't monitor the audio.
Yes, it has an auto-gain control. (My A10 arrived a few days ago from Europe. It is incredibly small!)
It also has a function called “Rehearsal” where you play a one minute sample of your source material (including its loudest portion) and it will set an optimum level.
Here is the Help Guide:
https://helpguide.sony.net/icd/pcma10/v1/en2/index.html
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Hi!
I was planning to try out my new A10 one of these days, and I am currently doing some testing back at my house...
I noticed there does not seem to be a MIC-IN high/low sensitivity setting, which has been on all my recorders through the years. Am I wrong, or is this kind of setting just not necessary anymore?
Has anyone tried to use this recorder with a battery box, like a babynbox, and had any problems?
My first impression of the recorder is pretty good. I wish the remote app for iOS had pause/stop buttons a little further away from the recording button, or maybe actually a kind of lock button that disables the stop/pause buttons until you unlock it...
-colargol
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Has anyone tried to use this recorder with a battery box, like a babynbox, and had any problems?
I have used it with a tinybox that had its gain set to zero, and had no problems at all. I ran audio in (line in).
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Does it record a second file at lower rec level for safety for accidental loudness distortions?
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Does it record a second file at lower rec level for safety for accidental loudness distortions?
The A10 has a Limiter with simple ON/OFF Setting. It looks like it hasn't this kind of digital limiter with a second lower rec level like for example the D100. But I am not sure, it needs to be tested. At least they don't mention it in the manual and I am sure they would if the feature exist ;)
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I'm thinking of pairing this with my Babynbox. I have a tinybox, which looks like it works as well. I think my question was answered a few pages back, but if I run the Babynbox and change my levels is there any noticeable noise in the recording? Or was that confirmed to be only using the external mics? I know I could switch the mic in to line in under the menu settings for either the Babynbox or the tinybox, but just thought I wouldn't even have to bother with that if I run the Babynox.
Sebastian--it appears that you have used yours the most. It looks like to me, from what I'm reading, that I would lose nothing from switching from my M10 to the A10. Would you agree with that?
Colargol--have you plugged your Babynox in yet to mic in? Did it ask you the "Plug in Power" question like the M10 does when plugging in the Babynox to the mic in?
Hopefully my fat fingers won't stop/pause the recording from the phone. It sounds like you can start the recording from the phone app which is really cool. Maybe locking the buttons on the screen could be a possible request to the makers of the app?
Sorry for all of my questions...
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Sebastian--it appears that you have used yours the most. It looks like to me, from what I'm reading, that I would lose nothing from switching from my M10 to the A10. Would you agree with that?
Well, you're losing the rugged metal case of the M10. The A10 does not feel as heavy as the M10.
Colargol--have you plugged your Babynox in yet to mic in? Did it ask you the "Plug in Power" question like the M10 does when plugging in the Babynox to the mic in?
The A10 seems to provide 3V plug-in power no matter what. This is actually the same behaviour as the M10. At least my M10 provides 3V even if I answer the Plug-in power question with "No".
About the babynbox, just ask Nick how it behaves when it is fed 3V plug-in power through its output. I have never seen a babynbox in person, but I would expect it to have output capacitors that block all DC voltage and only pass AC voltage (the audio signal). At least that's what I'd do.
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Colargol--have you plugged your Babynox in yet to mic in? Did it ask you the "Plug in Power" question like the M10 does when plugging in the Babynox to the mic in?
Hopefully my fat fingers won't stop/pause the recording from the phone. It sounds like you can start the recording from the phone app which is really cool. Maybe locking the buttons on the screen could be a possible request to the makers of the app?
I haven't tried the A10 with the babynbox yet. I am waiting for a show with no security to try out the new rig. I can try at home just to hook it up and see if get decent results.
I had the same idea about the stop/pause buttons in the app... I think I will at least comment this in my app store review. If several people do this maybe they will listen :-)
-colargol
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"you're losing the rugged metal case of the M10. The A10 does not feel as heavy as the M10."
I can probably live with that. From what I'm reading and I think you said it, I don't even need to have the device leave my pocket. I'll have to practice lowering/raising the levels of the A10 while it is in my pocket. Can you start recording on the phone while the unit is on hold? Or do you have to start recording and then put the unit on hold? I'd guess the later and it's just another thing I would have to practice toggling in my pocket.
"About the babynbox, just ask Nick how it behaves when it is fed 3V plug-in power through its output."
I just sent Nick a question about this. I'm not sure if he has used an A10 yet, but I'm hoping he can answer this question.
"I haven't tried the A10 with the babynbox yet. I am waiting for a show with no security to try out the new rig. I can try at home just to hook it up and see if get decent results."
I have a couple of shows coming up that won't have security at. I can always use my Tinybox, but I want to be able to have both options available (Tinybox/Babynbox). I may just order one and find out. Although I'd like to hear from Nick first.
Thanks for your responses!
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Can you start recording on the phone while the unit is on hold? Or do you have to start recording and then put the unit on hold?
Yes! Turn on the A10, plug in your preamp, engange hold, put it in your pocket. After that, you can control everything from the phone while the unit is on hold. Nothing to practice. ;)
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Can you start recording on the phone while the unit is on hold? Or do you have to start recording and then put the unit on hold?
Yes! Turn on the A10, plug in your preamp, engange hold, put it in your pocket. After that, you can control everything from the phone while the unit is on hold. Nothing to practice. ;)
That in itself is golden. But if I need/want to change recording levels, i have to do that on the device itself. Is that correct?
Thanks.
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That in itself is golden. But if I need/want to change recording levels, i have to do that on the device itself. Is that correct?
No. As I said: Everything you need to do, you can do from the app. ;)
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Wow I have to say it’d besweet to be 😈 and run hot levels, and no one notices. Is it rock solid?
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Wow I have to say it’d besweet to be 😈 and run hot levels, and no one notices. Is it rock solid?
Are you talking reliability or about the unit itself. Sebastian said this about the unit,
"Well, you're losing the rugged metal case of the M10. The A10 does not feel as heavy as the M10."
I just placed my order for one. It says it will be here on Friday. I was already thinking of heading out to Seattle that night anyway. The venue is one of those DIY venues, so I shouldn't have any problems messing around with the recorder. Although the sound isn't generally very good at these venues. I'm sure I'll have some more questions....soon.
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For those that have one of these, how do you like to mic input being on the side? I'm so use to it being on the top. Do you find this better or a hindrance?
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For those that have one of these, how do you like to mic input being on the side? I'm so use to it being on the top. Do you find this better or a hindrance?
Don't have one, but for stealth I'd think it would be an advantage as far as ergonomics go...
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For those that have one of these, how do you like to mic input being on the side? I'm so use to it being on the top. Do you find this better or a hindrance?
It hasn't been an issue for me. I would recommend using a right angle adapter if you're not already using one
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Hi all,
Lot's of good information in this thread - thanks for that! I too am considering purchasing this recorder for ultra lo pro situations.
I haven't seen it discussed elsewhere in this thread (and I've read through the whole thing), but what is known about that use of dual ADC circuitry in this device? I cannot find it mentioned in any of the English write-ups about this device, but it's called out in every Japanese review I've seen (e.g. https://ones.co.jp/2018_10_14_01_pcm-a10_linirepcmrecorder_review_sony.html (https://ones.co.jp/2018_10_14_01_pcm-a10_linirepcmrecorder_review_sony.html)).
Thanks in advance for any insight anyone can provide.
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Hi all,
Lot's of good information in this thread - thanks for that! I too am considering purchasing this recorder for ultra lo pro situations.
I haven't seen it discussed elsewhere in this thread (and I've read through the whole thing), but what is known about that use of dual ADC circuitry in this device? I cannot find it mentioned in any of the English write-ups about this device, but it's called out in every Japanese review I've seen (e.g. https://ones.co.jp/2018_10_14_01_pcm-a10_linirepcmrecorder_review_sony.html (https://ones.co.jp/2018_10_14_01_pcm-a10_linirepcmrecorder_review_sony.html)).
Thanks in advance for any insight anyone can provide.
I have not seen it explained for this deck yet, but the same feature is on the Tascam DR100MKIII and here is what they say...
Improving recording signal-to-noise
(Dual ADC function)
The dual ADC function realizes even better signal-to-noise
performance and can suppress noise even when recording quiet
input sounds.
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My A10 arrived today (a day earlier than I thought). I hope to take it out tomorrow, but that first outing may now be in doubt (family stuff). If I can get out, I'm going to see if I can find a splitter so that I can record into the A10 and the M10. I think Sebastian said he did that without issues.
First impressions, it's small. I think we all knew that. While not as rugged as the M10, I didn't think it was too terrible. It is lighter than the M10. Again, another thing we all knew. When taking this out for shows, I might actually put this in the tiny foam case it came with. I just have to make sure the foam case won't impact the mic jack at all. I did read in the manual/instructions that it came with under precautions that "Noise may be heard when the unit is placed near an AC power source, a fluorescent lamp or a mobile phone during recording or playback". I find this statement odd since there is a phone app. Which to me would kind of defeat the purpose of the phone app. Sebastian have you had an issue with that? Might be something to look out for.
It paired to my phone nice and easy. I do wish that I could switch audio (line) in/mic in on the recording app itself. As it is, at least from what I've seen, each time I plug my mics in, I have to chose between mic in or audio in and select manual. Not a big deal. I can hook up before the show since battery life won't be an issue. I just wish I could set that as a default setting for every time I turn the unit on. Maybe I can, but I haven't looked for it.
I do like how I can run the A10 from my phone while the A10 is locked. I do not like that the buttons on the phone app are a little closer than I'd like to have. I've got fat fingers! I also wish there was a hold option on the phone app. I am going to suggest that. I may even ask for a little more separation between the buttons as well.
I ran some initial tests with a babynbox, an IPA (set at 4db), and a tinybox (low setting--I think it is 4db as well). From my initial tests, I think I'd have to run line in with the babynbox. On the M10, I ran mic in as per Nick's suggestion. With mic in, I peaked levels quite easily (even at 1). I was screaming like a banshee into my mics and going over each time. I know that isn't the best test, but I figured it would be somewhat close to real life. When I connected the babynbox via line in, I didn't have that issue. I tested the IPA and Tinybox as well (line in). Again, I began screaming like a banshee which meant everyone in the house was wondering what the hell I was doing! I don't remember what levels I set, but they did not peak.
I'm not sure this is the perfect device, but if things go well, it will be nice to have an even smaller device for what I'm normally doing when I record. >:D >:D
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Sebastian when you were running your Tinybox did you just set it to (audio) line in and manual levels? I'm just curious...
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I downloaded the Roland app just to see how it's laid out. It will let you "look around" without having the actual recorder. I can't find the Sony app on iTunes. I would love to play with the app without having to buy the recorder first.
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On IOS it is called Rec Remote. I couldn't do much until I paired the device though. You can see some screen shots for the app.
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On IOS it is called Rec Remote. I couldn't do much until I paired the device though. You can see some screen shots for the app.
Thank you! Downloading now to get a feel !!!
:cheers:
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Taped Metallica with the A10 on Monday. It's so small that I just pulled it out of my pocket to check levels every so often. The one issue I had was when I wanted to disengage the hold to change levels, I pushed down too hard on the slider and turned the recorder off. This happened well before they hit the stage so nothing was lost. The next time I had to disengage hold, I was careful to just move the slider enough to turn hold off and not come close to powering it off. I ran dpa 4023 cards into the sonosax into XLR>mini interconnect into the A10. I taped the cable down to the A10 on the opposite side of the right angle mini so there was no chance the mini would come out and also limited any type of movement of the connection. With the Sonosax set to it's lowest "lo" level (6 dB), I ran the A10 at 14.
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That's pretty sweet. Did you run Audio/Line in and set it to manual?
Also, if you use the app on your phone you can engage the hold button on the A10 and use the app to set levels.
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Yes, line in and manual levels. I'm definitely going to use the app next time out.
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Anyone know how long this takes to charge via USB? I see in the user manual it says to plug it into a computer, so I imagine it takes a while.
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Anyone run with a babynbox? Gotta be mic in, right?
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Here's what I noticed:
"I ran some initial tests with a babynbox, an IPA (set at 4db), and a tinybox (low setting--I think it is 4db as well). From my initial tests, I think I'd have to run line in with the babynbox. On the M10, I ran mic in as per Nick's suggestion. With mic in, I peaked levels quite easily (even at 1). I was screaming like a banshee into my mics and going over each time. I know that isn't the best test, but I figured it would be somewhat close to real life."
To be more clear, when I ran mic in on the A10 my levels peaked even at 1. Of course, I was screaming into my mics. So, maybe that wasn't the best test, but I think it might be safer to run line/audio in. I'm trying to get out tonight, but I may not be able to now. If I do, I'm going to try and use all three toinght (babynox, IPA, and Tinybox)..
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I did read in the manual/instructions that it came with under precautions that "Noise may be heard when the unit is placed near an AC power source, a fluorescent lamp or a mobile phone during recording or playback". I find this statement odd since there is a phone app. Which to me would kind of defeat the purpose of the phone app. Sebastian have you had an issue with that? Might be something to look out for.
I haven't noticed anything in real-world scenarios. Just did a quick test with a live phone (that had a 4G voice call active) and could reproduce some RFI. However, I had to turn the gain on the preamp (tinybox) and on the A10 up all the way for it to be audible. And I think the RFI entered through my unbalanced Schoeps actives rather than the A10 or tinybox. Also tested the M10 and the RFI behaviour was about the same. So I'd say there's nothing to worry about on the recorder side of things.
Sebastian when you were running your Tinybox did you just set it to (audio) line in and manual levels? I'm just curious...
tinybox at no gain for super loud shows, +6dB for less loud ones. Line (audio) in on A10. Worked perfectly. I would think settings with the babynbox should be around the same as for tinybox without gain.
To be more clear, when I ran mic in on the A10 my levels peaked even at 1. Of course, I was screaming into my mics.
At what distance to the mics? When you scream into any mic at close range you will clip, no matter what.
I'm definitely going to use the app next time out.
Yes, you really should. The A10 itself is so small that I almost find it too fiddly. The app works much better for me.
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Question for Sebastian / general knowledgeable folk:
Are we not concerned with the low freq response only going down to 40Hz? Even my low budget low pro mics go down to 30Hz; are we not losing something on the very low end in that scenario?
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Question for Sebastian / general knowledgeable folk:
Are we not concerned with the low freq response only going down to 40Hz? Even my low budget low pro mics go down to 30Hz; are we not losing something on the very low end in that scenario?
I believe that is only in reference to the built in mics.
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Question for Sebastian / general knowledgeable folk:
Are we not concerned with the low freq response only going down to 40Hz? Even my low budget low pro mics go down to 30Hz; are we not losing something on the very low end in that scenario?
I believe that is only in reference to the built in mics.
I've seen that bandied around but I'm not so sure, as usually Sony quotes those specs in relation to the line / mic instead on these devices (see D1, D50, M10 specs which specifically reference mic / line in).
Do we have some sort of reference to reassure us that it's only about the built ins or are we only going on those couple of guesses from the beginning of the thread?
(Not being akward, just trying to determine if I want to plunk down my hard earned pesos on this thing).
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Question for Sebastian / general knowledgeable folk:
Are we not concerned with the low freq response only going down to 40Hz? Even my low budget low pro mics go down to 30Hz; are we not losing something on the very low end in that scenario?
Well, my Schoeps cardioids only go down to 40 Hz. So no, I'm not concerned. And I don't feel I'm losing anything. ;)
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Taken from https://pro.sony/ue_US/products/portable-digital-recorders/pcm-a10#ProductSpecificationsBlock-pcm-a10
FREQUENCY RESPONSE LPCM 96.1 KHZ, 24 BIT 40-40,000 Hz (0~-3 dB)
FREQUENCY RESPONSE LPCM 48 KHZ, 24 BIT 40-21,000 Hz (0~-3 dB)
FREQUENCY RESPONSE LPCM 48 KHZ, 16 BIT 40-21,000 Hz (0~-3 dB)
FREQUENCY RESPONSE LPCM 44.1 KHZ, 24 BIT 40-20,000 Hz (0~-3 dB)
FREQUENCY RESPONSE LPCM 44.1 KHZ, 16 BIT 40-20,000 Hz (0~-3 dB)
FREQUENCY RESPONSE MP3 320 KBPS 40-20,000 Hz (0~-3 dB)
FREQUENCY RESPONSE MP3 192 KBPS 40-18,000 Hz (0~-3 dB)
FREQUENCY RESPONSE MP3 128 KBPS 40-16,000 Hz (0~-3 dB)
FREQUENCY RESPONSE MP3 48 KBPS (MONAURAL) 40-14,000 Hz (0~-3 dB)
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Taken from https://pro.sony/ue_US/products/portable-digital-recorders/pcm-a10#ProductSpecificationsBlock-pcm-a10
FREQUENCY RESPONSE LPCM 96.1 KHZ, 24 BIT 40-40,000 Hz (0~-3 dB)
FREQUENCY RESPONSE LPCM 48 KHZ, 24 BIT 40-21,000 Hz (0~-3 dB)
FREQUENCY RESPONSE LPCM 48 KHZ, 16 BIT 40-21,000 Hz (0~-3 dB)
FREQUENCY RESPONSE LPCM 44.1 KHZ, 24 BIT 40-20,000 Hz (0~-3 dB)
FREQUENCY RESPONSE LPCM 44.1 KHZ, 16 BIT 40-20,000 Hz (0~-3 dB)
FREQUENCY RESPONSE MP3 320 KBPS 40-20,000 Hz (0~-3 dB)
FREQUENCY RESPONSE MP3 192 KBPS 40-18,000 Hz (0~-3 dB)
FREQUENCY RESPONSE MP3 128 KBPS 40-16,000 Hz (0~-3 dB)
FREQUENCY RESPONSE MP3 48 KBPS (MONAURAL) 40-14,000 Hz (0~-3 dB)
Thanks flask. I have spotted that in a couple of different places, but it is never indicated whether it is the mics or the mic/line in, hence my confusion. I guess my thought is if they don't specifically call out the mics AND given the Sony history of that spec being published in reference to the recorder inputs themselves, I tend to assume we are talking about the device's frequency response. I don't really know though so hoping one of the smarter people around here could help. I guess the other part of the question though is "is there anything down there worth worrying about?" I've seen more than one post from dsatz where the general message is "there is nothing you need down that low anyway."
The only things stopping me from pulling the trigger are this 40Hz question and the fact that I absolutely detest internal rechargeable batteries as its a situation that never ends well (expensive repair, self-service, lack of parts, etc.). If I could knock one of the 2 niggles off the list it would finally make it's way out of the shopping cart and into my home!
Thanks in advance for any other input on the low-end concern.
-g
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Yeah, not a big fan of the battery either. FWIW, it does operate with an external battery plugged in, but that certainly defeats the form factor.
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The internal battery’s supposed to run 6:35 at 24/96 and 13:15 at 24/48. If this is true, there aren’t many occasions where you need anything more than the internal battery...
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The internal battery’s supposed to run 6:35 at 24/96 and 13:15 at 24/48. If this is true, there aren’t many occasions where you need anything more than the internal battery...
I seen this a couple of times now. Why does it take so much more power to store 24/96 vs 24/48 ? I get that it needs mush more storage space for the 24/96 recording. But and the rest of the power needs are ~ the same ? Or am I missing something here ?
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The internal battery’s supposed to run 6:35 at 24/96 and 13:15 at 24/48. If this is true, there aren’t many occasions where you need anything more than the internal battery...
What about after 4-5 years when that capacity has gone down to 60% (and even worse moving on from there)?
It's not that I'm worried I'm going to run out of battery while recording right when I get thing, it's that eventually the battery will need to be replaced as it will have deteriorated to an unusable state.
At that time there are some obvious downsides: Sony won't service it for less than ~$200, tearing such a small intricate device apart oneself is not without a bunch of stress / risk of damage, and one often struggles to find the exact part used more and more as time goes by.
They should have gone with a AAA like the LS-P4, and given us more assured longevity.
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if its buffering while writing it could be (up to) 2X as much power to write data, if in fact data writing is the lions share of the power consumption
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The internal battery’s supposed to run 6:35 at 24/96 and 13:15 at 24/48. If this is true, there aren’t many occasions where you need anything more than the internal battery...
I seen this a couple of times now. Why does it take so much more power to store 24/96 vs 24/48 ? I get that it needs mush more storage space for the 24/96 recording. But and the rest of the power needs are ~ the same ? Or am I missing something here ?
It's sampling twice as frequently, makes sense it will take about twice as much power.
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The internal battery’s supposed to run 6:35 at 24/96 and 13:15 at 24/48. If this is true, there aren’t many occasions where you need anything more than the internal battery...
In my tests, I got run times of almost 24 hours of continuous recording.
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The internal battery’s supposed to run 6:35 at 24/96 and 13:15 at 24/48. If this is true, there aren’t many occasions where you need anything more than the internal battery...
What about after 4-5 years when that capacity has gone down to 60% (and even worse moving on from there)?
It's not that I'm worried I'm going to run out of battery while recording right when I get thing, it's that eventually the battery will need to be replaced as it will have deteriorated to an unusable state.
At that time there are some obvious downsides: Sony won't service it for less than ~$200, tearing such a small intricate device apart oneself is not without a bunch of stress / risk of damage, and one often struggles to find the exact part used more and more as time goes by.
They should have gone with a AAA like the LS-P4, and given us more assured longevity.
That is the EXACT reason I have yet to pull out the credit card for one. I hate the limitations (short and/or long term) of internal batteries.
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The internal battery’s supposed to run 6:35 at 24/96 and 13:15 at 24/48. If this is true, there aren’t many occasions where you need anything more than the internal battery...
I seen this a couple of times now. Why does it take so much more power to store 24/96 vs 24/48 ? I get that it needs mush more storage space for the 24/96 recording. But and the rest of the power needs are ~ the same ? Or am I missing something here ?
What you're missing is that those times refer to the length of recording time using the internal 16 GB memory, not battery life.
Recording at 24/96, the battery is supposed to last 15 hours.
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I think a valid concern is the longevity of the internal battery over time. Although, I have to believe that in the next 4-5 years something else will come on the market that will grab my attention. If such a device doesn't come out and I'm still using the A10, then I'll just have to have an adapter cable to run this in the field.
But...if this device is still is capable of running at 60% in 5 years, I'd still have 6+ hours of running time.
I get your point though.
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I think a valid concern is the longevity of the internal battery over time. Although, I have to believe that in the next 4-5 years something else will come on the market that will grab my attention. If such a device doesn't come out and I'm still using the A10, then I'll just have to have an adapter cable to run this in the field.
But...if this device is still is capable of running at 60% in 5 years, I'd still have 6+ hours of running time.
I get your point though.
True. I think what makes me nervous is that with batteries, all you need to do is pop some fresh one's in. With the internal batteries, if I somehow forget to charge it ... there's little that can be done. I'm a paranoid taper. Lol.
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I think a valid concern is the longevity of the internal battery over time. Although, I have to believe that in the next 4-5 years something else will come on the market that will grab my attention. If such a device doesn't come out and I'm still using the A10, then I'll just have to have an adapter cable to run this in the field.
But...if this device is still is capable of running at 60% in 5 years, I'd still have 6+ hours of running time.
I get your point though.
True. I think what makes me nervous is that with batteries, all you need to do is pop some fresh one's in. With the internal batteries, if I somehow forget to charge it ... there's little that can be done. I'm a paranoid taper. Lol.
but if you were truly "paranoid", then you wouldn't have forgotten to charge it :)
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I think a valid concern is the longevity of the internal battery over time. Although, I have to believe that in the next 4-5 years something else will come on the market that will grab my attention. If such a device doesn't come out and I'm still using the A10, then I'll just have to have an adapter cable to run this in the field.
But...if this device is still is capable of running at 60% in 5 years, I'd still have 6+ hours of running time.
I get your point though.
True. I think what makes me nervous is that with batteries, all you need to do is pop some fresh one's in. With the internal batteries, if I somehow forget to charge it ... there's little that can be done. I'm a paranoid taper. Lol.
but if you were truly "paranoid", then you wouldn't have forgotten to charge it :)
Power could go out, partner/child could unplug it, charger could fail...
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I think a valid concern is the longevity of the internal battery over time. Although, I have to believe that in the next 4-5 years something else will come on the market that will grab my attention. If such a device doesn't come out and I'm still using the A10, then I'll just have to have an adapter cable to run this in the field.
But...if this device is still is capable of running at 60% in 5 years, I'd still have 6+ hours of running time.
I get your point though.
True. I think what makes me nervous is that with batteries, all you need to do is pop some fresh one's in. With the internal batteries, if I somehow forget to charge it ... there's little that can be done. I'm a paranoid taper. Lol.
but if you were truly "paranoid", then you wouldn't have forgotten to charge it :)
Power could go out, partner/child could unplug it, charger could fail...
Even if one of those things happened, the battery would still have juice leftover from the last outing... unless the last outing was 15 hours...
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A track from my Metallica tape from last week
DPA 4023 > Sonosax SX-M2 > Mogami interconnect >
Sony PCM-A10 @ 24/96
https://soundcloud.com/user-499246530/metallica2019-01-28t11 (https://soundcloud.com/user-499246530/metallica2019-01-28t11)
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do they still allow open taping?
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A track from my Metallica tape from last week
DPA 4023 > Sonosax SX-M2 > Mogami interconnect >
Sony PCM-A10 @ 24/96
https://soundcloud.com/user-499246530/metallica2019-01-28t11 (https://soundcloud.com/user-499246530/metallica2019-01-28t11)
This sounds excellent! There's still a good amount of low end even though Metallica's live sound basically lacks any audible bass. At least it was like that when I saw them last year.
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do they still allow open taping?
haven’t heard of anyone open taping them since maybe 96? i still have never met anyone that did open tape them when it was allowed.
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A track from my Metallica tape from last week
DPA 4023 > Sonosax SX-M2 > Mogami interconnect >
Sony PCM-A10 @ 24/96
https://soundcloud.com/user-499246530/metallica2019-01-28t11 (https://soundcloud.com/user-499246530/metallica2019-01-28t11)
This sounds excellent! There's still a good amount of low end even though Metallica's live sound basically lacks any audible bass. At least it was like that when I saw them last year.
agree about the metallica sound. it looked like they line the bass cabinets up in the corners of the floor instead of near the stage and i was about 15 feet center on one end of the floor pretty far from the corners.
the dpa>sax combo always captures all of the low end, which in many cases isn’t desired, but great in this case.
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Another PCM-A10 sample of Ryley Walker. https://archive.org/details/ryleywalker2019-01-31 (https://archive.org/details/ryleywalker2019-01-31)
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do they still allow open taping?
haven’t heard of anyone open taping them since maybe 96? i still have never met anyone that did open tape them when it was allowed.
yeah the live downloads squelched that i guess. metallica fans prob werent so adamant about pulling an aud when sbds are available
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I think a valid concern is the longevity of the internal battery over time. Although, I have to believe that in the next 4-5 years something else will come on the market that will grab my attention. If such a device doesn't come out and I'm still using the A10, then I'll just have to have an adapter cable to run this in the field.
But...if this device is still is capable of running at 60% in 5 years, I'd still have 6+ hours of running time.
I get your point though.
True. I think what makes me nervous is that with batteries, all you need to do is pop some fresh one's in. With the internal batteries, if I somehow forget to charge it ... there's little that can be done. I'm a paranoid taper. Lol.
but if you were truly "paranoid", then you wouldn't have forgotten to charge it :)
While I appreciate your attempt at humor, there is a lot of variables concerning internal batteries that should be considered. While these are rare events, issues like overcharging, false charging, dead cells and improper charging cycles are all real world problems and can cause internal batters to lose a lot of it charge holding capabilities. External temperatures also affect the charging of internal batteries. So, like I said, there is a lot of variables and things that could go wrong. I'll also say that in most scenarios these issues may maybe never happen, but to the 1-in-a-1000 taper who might have an issue due to an internal battery failure ... well they would be 100% screwed. External batteries is the easiest fix as it's almost always been in a tapers toolbox to bring extra batteries. Just how do you bring an extra internal?
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Run two rigs, including one with replaceable batteries, to ease your concerns.
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Run two rigs, including one with replaceable batteries, to ease your concerns.
seriously...this thing is so tiny, you could stealth two of them in and check the bars on both while setting up and use the one with the higher batt level.
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I'm never going to stop fluffing an Oade mod Marantz 620. Pick one up on eBay for $100 and pay $200 for the mod of you choice, this will sound way better than any Edirol, M10, A10 or any tiny deck. It is tiny too and runs 10 hours on a pair of Powerex.
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I'm never going to stop fluffing an Oade mod Marantz 620. Pick one up on eBay for $100 and pay $200 for the mod of you choice, this will sound way better than any Edirol, M10, A10 or any tiny deck. It is tiny too and runs 10 hours on a pair of Powerex.
What makes the 620 so much better than the other decks you mention? Spec wise? performance wise? etc
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Run two rigs, including one with replaceable batteries, to ease your concerns.
Who is taking the time to stealth 2 rigs?
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I'm never going to stop fluffing an Oade mod Marantz 620. Pick one up on eBay for $100 and pay $200 for the mod of you choice, this will sound way better than any Edirol, M10, A10 or any tiny deck. It is tiny too and runs 10 hours on a pair of Powerex.
What makes the 620 so much better than the other decks you mention? Spec wise? performance wise? etc
Doug sent me the specs, after a mod they just blow away the M10 line and mic in. Sound so much better imo. I just don't get running thousands of dollars worh of mics into a cheap stock recorder.
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Run two rigs, including one with replaceable batteries, to ease your concerns.
Who is taking the time to stealth 2 rigs?
If you're worried about taking too much time you've come to the wrong place.
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Run two rigs, including one with replaceable batteries, to ease your concerns.
Who is taking the time to stealth 2 rigs?
Me, on several occasions. (Cf. "paranoid," above.)
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If you're worried about taking too much time you've come to the wrong place.
More of the how do you get in 2 mics, 2 decks, 2 pre-amps... all the cables, etc. I already over stock for stealthing and not sure I want the metal detectors going off any more than they already do
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If you're worried about taking too much time you've come to the wrong place.
More of the how do you get in 2 mics, 2 decks, 2 pre-amps... all the cables, etc. I already over stock for stealthing and not sure I want the metal detectors going off any more than they already do
I pretty much never go to see shows at clubs with metal detectors. (Would not double up at those, I agree.)
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A track from my Metallica tape from last week
DPA 4023 > Sonosax SX-M2 > Mogami interconnect >
Sony PCM-A10 @ 24/96
https://soundcloud.com/user-499246530/metallica2019-01-28t11 (https://soundcloud.com/user-499246530/metallica2019-01-28t11)
wow cool to see an aud from recent Metallica. I have seen them 4 times on this tour (Columbus, Dallas, Pittsburgh and Cleveland just last week) and haven't taped due to the soundboard FLACs being available for 12.99. I considered taping Pittsburgh (because my seats were in direct line with an overhead hanging speaker), but the sound was really crummy that night, so i would've listened to the board recording anyway, had I taped.
Id love to hear your full recording, tho. Did you share it yet?
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I tried my A10 in the field last night for the first time, and both the taping experience and the result were pretty good.
The only thing that really bugs me about the A10-app combo, is that the stop and pause buttons are way too close to the bottom of the screen where I swipe up to close the app. I am worried I might accidentally stop or pause the recording.
I suggested an app lock feature that disables the app stop and pause buttons in my app store review. I hope some of you could do the same, and see if we could get Sony to fix it :-)
-colargol
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So I bought a A10 and am now realizing that the Sound Organizer software is ONLY useable with Windows and is not compatible with Mac? What other options exist for editing software? Thanks.
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So I bought a A10 and am now realizing that the Sound Organizer software is ONLY useable with Windows and is not compatible with Mac? What other options exist for editing software? Thanks.
Audacity is free and very nice.
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I still like Goldwave, although only free in the trial stage periond.
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Doug sent me the specs, after a mod they just blow away the M10 line and mic in. Sound so much better imo. I just don't get running thousands of dollars worh of mics into a cheap stock recorder.
After what mod?
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Doug sent me the specs, after a mod they just blow away the M10 line and mic in. Sound so much better imo. I just don't get running thousands of dollars worh of mics into a cheap stock recorder.
After what mod?
He's referring to a mod the Oade Brothers can do to a Marantz PMD-620
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Doug sent me the specs, after a mod they just blow away the M10 line and mic in. Sound so much better imo. I just don't get running thousands of dollars worh of mics into a cheap stock recorder.
After what mod?
He's referring to a mod the Oade Brothers can do to a Marantz PMD-620
They can do the same mod to the A10 and the PMD-620 but not to the M10?
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Doug sent me the specs, after a mod they just blow away the M10 line and mic in. Sound so much better imo. I just don't get running thousands of dollars worh of mics into a cheap stock recorder.
After what mod?
He's referring to a mod the Oade Brothers can do to a Marantz PMD-620
They can do the same mod to the A10 and the PMD-620 but not to the M10?
No, he's talking about the Marantz. As far as I know, they don't mod Sony devices.
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There are a few Oade preamp mod m10s out there, but he doesn't advertise it. Love what he does to a Marantz 620. Don't miss an external pre at all. Pick one up for $100 on eBay, send to Doug for $200, and for $300 you've got imo th best small portable you can buy.
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They can do the same mod to the A10 and the PMD-620 but not to the M10?
No, he's talking about the Marantz. As far as I know, they don't mod Sony devices.
I guess I was confused because the thread is about the A10 and I thought that's what was being compared to the M10. I don't doubt Marantz trumps Sony.
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I believe that the Oade's have also said that there is no reason to modify the current Sony handhelds. No room (or not enough to justify a mod) for improvement.
Oade flavor is a personal preference though..
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in for an A-10. cant resist trying new gear. :yahoo:
speaking of doug i have been back and forth with him discussing ins and outs of new gear, it really seems like a lot of these components are finally using top-shelf chips in their consumer gear, he liked what he saw in the d:vice at least
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The A10 seems to provide 3V plug-in power no matter what. This is actually the same behaviour as the M10. At least my M10 provides 3V even if I answer the Plug-in power question with "No".
About the babynbox, just ask Nick how it behaves when it is fed 3V plug-in power through its output. I have never seen a babynbox in person, but I would expect it to have output capacitors that block all DC voltage and only pass AC voltage (the audio signal). At least that's what I'd do.
just got mine
on mic in, i measure ~2.75V with mic in
if i switch to line in, there is initially voltage, but the resistance of my meter eats up the voltage. im assuming if you never turn on mic in you dont see this voltage
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on mic in, i measure ~2.75V with mic in
if i switch to line in, there is initially voltage, but the resistance of my meter eats up the voltage. im assuming if you never turn on mic in you dont see this voltage
Ah, I probably did not measure it long enough for the voltage to drop. Must be quite the big capacitor, then. ;)
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I love the fact that it works as an mp3 player which plays 24bit flac. I know there’s other handhelds that do that, but between its recording, playback, and mass storage features, in that size, it’s something I would always have in my pocket. Good sound and decent output level (at least with my etymotic 4Ps which as on the more sensitive side). Can it use over 32 gb media or are we constrained to sdhc?
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I love the fact that it works as an mp3 player which plays 24bit flac. I know there’s other handhelds that do that, but between its recording, playback, and mass storage features, in that size, it’s something I would always have in my pocket. Good sound and decent output level (at least with my etymotic 4Ps which as on the more sensitive side). Can it use over 32 gb media or are we constrained to sdhc?
Do you use a DAC when you us the A10 for PB?
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I love the fact that it works as an mp3 player which plays 24bit flac. I know there’s other handhelds that do that, but between its recording, playback, and mass storage features, in that size, it’s something I would always have in my pocket. Good sound and decent output level (at least with my etymotic 4Ps which as on the more sensitive side). Can it use over 32 gb media or are we constrained to sdhc?
This is one of the reasons I picked up a D100
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Can it use over 32 gb media or are we constrained to sdhc?
I’m using a 64 gb card with no problems so far. The manual says “64 GB or more.”
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I love the fact that it works as an mp3 player which plays 24bit flac. I know there’s other handhelds that do that, but between its recording, playback, and mass storage features, in that size, it’s something I would always have in my pocket. Good sound and decent output level (at least with my etymotic 4Ps which as on the more sensitive side). Can it use over 32 gb media or are we constrained to sdhc?
Do you use a DAC when you us the A10 for PB?
it has no digital out.
i was in a rental car this weekend that played flac thru the dash nav when it was plugged into USB, so maybe its possible
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A10's internal mics holding their own in loud sweetspot
https://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=181868.msg2295287#msg2295287
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Can anyone recommend some products I could use to make almost an "AC" charger for the PCM-A10? Ideally, I'd like to plug the A10's USB into a female USB long wire, which terminates in a wall plug. I could then charge by plugging it into the wall. I see two parts that will do the trick, but I'm not sure how safe the USB to wall charger plugs are. Would a typical iPhone square wall plug work ok, or do I need to worry about voltage/current for different plugs?
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i picked a PCM-A10 up last week and ran it last night >:D. Running front row on the rail and only having to check my smart phone occasionally was very nice.
ran my normal MBHO ka200n > naiant ipa setup with great results. My PCM-M10 is going to be on only open taping duty. If Sony made it so you can control two A10's from the same app my m10 would be in the yard sale tomorrow
My only complaint about the app is the placement of the stop/pause/rec controls at least on an iphone and dealing with the home button
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https://youtu.be/r6cVwF_5jiI
My first time out with a10
schoeps mk41v > nbobs > babynbox > sony a-10 > 24/48 wav
Mine took a shit after one use! Completely dark won’t turn on
Real junk, buyer beware
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its amazing. mine is out on loan for jazzfest
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Using a10 line in with external preamp and mics will get me different results compared to an m10?
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Using a10 line in with external preamp and mics will get me different results compared to an m10?
its a little quieter. may not be noticeable with a hot line-in signal
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Using a10 line in with external preamp and mics will get me different results compared to an m10?
its a little quieter. may not be noticeable with a hot line-in signal
Did you mean the A10 is quieter?
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yes there are input noise measurements in this very thread
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yes there are input noise measurements in this very thread
Thanks, that’s great news because I never found the M10 particularly noisy.
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https://youtu.be/r6cVwF_5jiI
My first time out with a10
schoeps mk41v > nbobs > babynbox > sony a-10 > 24/48 wav
Mine took a shit after one use! Completely dark won’t turn on
Real junk, buyer beware
That is pretty disconcerting news. Were you able to get the A-10 to power back up?
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https://youtu.be/r6cVwF_5jiI
My first time out with a10
schoeps mk41v > nbobs > babynbox > sony a-10 > 24/48 wav
Mine took a shit after one use! Completely dark won’t turn on
Real junk, buyer beware
That is pretty disconcerting news. Were you able to get the A-10 to power back up?
Nope, packed up and ready to return as soon as B & H is done
with Passover.
I’m getting another one, I like the size and the phone app. I hate the internal battery
and the internal memory. The USB A sucks and my latest Mac doesn’t recognize as a usb
when plugged in, I have to attach to an older macbook to get files off the internal memory.
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Thanks Ed. I would also hate the internal battery and the internal memory. I'll likely end up with one of these but I haven't picked one up yet.
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You guys do realize you can actually use a Micro SD card? I have to agree on the internal battery, though.
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Yes, I'm aware that you can use a Micro SD card and I'm not really a fan of the Micro SD's either. But it is what it is.
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Yes, I'm aware that you can use a Micro SD card and I'm not really a fan of the Micro SD's either. But it is what it is.
I don't care for the Micro SD cards either, but the M10 used them and I never had a problem in the 10 years I've been using that machine.
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I’ve never had a 32gb card or smaller fail me in any recorder when formatted with that recorder. And they can be found under $10. You guys woulda hated DAT lol
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I’ve never had a 32gb card or smaller fail me in any recorder when formatted with that recorder. And they can be found under $10. You guys woulda hated DAT lol
I had a chuckle when I read that DAT comment. :smash:
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Nope, packed up and ready to return as soon as B & H is done
with Passover.
I’m getting another one, I like the size and the phone app. I hate the internal battery
and the internal memory. The USB A sucks and my latest Mac doesn’t recognize as a usb
when plugged in, I have to attach to an older macbook to get files off the internal memory.
That's odd. I'm using mine on a brand new iMac with latest OS and it works fine. I've really been getting a lot of use out of my A10 and so far no troubles. I do share your annoyance with the internal battery.
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This sounds almost like a flawed design. Correct me if I am wrong, but when you connect this recorder to the computer you have no access to the recorder as a recorder in the meantime - correct? In other words, are all the recording functions disabled when connected to a computer? There are actually MP3 devices out there that will still function as MP3 devices despite being hooked up to the USB while charging. What I am getting at is if the A10 doesn't function as a recorder when something is connected to it's USB, then I think Sony should find a way to have the user have the capability to use the recording functions and USB at the same time. This would mean that if necessary, someone could plug this into a power bank, get more power while recording as a backup power source, and also get more continuous recording time - especially on the high capacity SD cards. In fact, I own a Sony camcorder - probably the most newest and cheapest HD model, and you can actually connect a power bank into the USB so the battery life doesn't suddenly take a shit since the physical battery only holds something like a little over 70 minutes max on best picture settings. The battery itself is not suitable for long hour shows because Sony has not come up (and at this stage may never will) with a double capacity battery to give a more extended amount of battery time. Who the hell is running this company these days with all these shortcoming on their products that could really help the consumers???
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While I’m waiting for my new one...
I was able to format and use a 400 GB card
I was also able to power over usb and record at the same
When I get the new one, I’ll try powering with small external usb
battery. It’s probably not needed until the internal takes a shit.
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i’ve used mine flawlessly about 10 times since january and am loving the ability to leave it in my pocket and control and monitor using the bluetooth app. i’m using the internal memory exclusively and am transferring the files and formatting the memory after every show. It also connects and charges the battery on both my 2015 macbook pro and 2017 imac.
I have the D10 on preorder at B&H and am hoping it works this well. last check it’s supposed to be in stock May 1.
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While I’m waiting for my new one...
I was able to format and use a 400 GB card
I was also able to power over usb and record at the same
When I get the new one, I’ll try powering with small external usb
battery. It’s probably not needed until the internal takes a shit.
thats good news i just bought a 512GB card for mine, theyre onsale for $80 at B&H
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1465323-REG/lexar_lsdmi512bbap633a_512gb_microsdxc_card_633x.html
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While I’m waiting for my new one...
I was able to format and use a 400 GB card
I was also able to power over usb and record at the same
When I get the new one, I’ll try powering with small external usb
battery. It’s probably not needed until the internal takes a shit.
thats good news i just bought a 512GB card for mine, theyre onsale for $80 at B&H
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1465323-REG/lexar_lsdmi512bbap633a_512gb_microsdxc_card_633x.html
Seriously? The Sony will take a card of that size? If so, I may have to forget my fear of internal battery issues and try one. Interesting ...
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While I’m waiting for my new one...
I was able to format and use a 400 GB card
I was also able to power over usb and record at the same
When I get the new one, I’ll try powering with small external usb
battery. It’s probably not needed until the internal takes a shit.
thats good news i just bought a 512GB card for mine, theyre onsale for $80 at B&H
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1465323-REG/lexar_lsdmi512bbap633a_512gb_microsdxc_card_633x.html
Seriously? The Sony will take a card of that size? If so, I may have to forget my fear of internal battery issues and try one. Interesting ...
yes SDXC is up to 2TB. 1TB cards jsut released (>$400). those 400 and 512GB cards under $100 are where its at
you expressed interest in my microtrack... buy the a10 and dont look back its an amazing unit. for the size and weight of a microtrack you can have a bat box + recorder that is smaller and better sounding and infinitely more reliable. if you dont need spdif in there is zero reason to own a microtrack imo
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I may have to forget my fear of internal battery issues and try one.
ive never seen mine dent the battery in recording use
50-75% after 3 hours
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yes there are input noise measurements in this very thread
According to this site here, it seems like the A10 is noiser than the M10?
https://www.avisoft.com/recordertests.htm
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yes there are input noise measurements in this very thread
According to this site here, it seems like the A10 is noiser than the M10?
https://www.avisoft.com/recordertests.htm
at what input level?
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Here's a sample from Jackson Browne DPA4028 > Sonosax SX-M2 >Sony A10, 1st row:
https://we.tl/t-hbdiNpEAkB (https://we.tl/t-hbdiNpEAkB)
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Here's a sample from Jackson Browne DPA4028 > Sonosax SX-M2 >Sony A10, 1st row:
https://we.tl/t-hbdiNpEAkB (https://we.tl/t-hbdiNpEAkB)
Thanks George, while people are discussing things here, you are out making great tapes!
PM me the link to the whole thing bro
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Here's a sample from Jackson Browne DPA4028 > Sonosax SX-M2 >Sony A10, 1st row:
https://we.tl/t-hbdiNpEAkB (https://we.tl/t-hbdiNpEAkB)
This sounds great George!
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someone needs to take a chance on one of these $180 japanese units
i cant imagine a firmware flash wouldnt flip it to english
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Genuine-SONY-PCM-A10-PCM-Hi-Res-Recorder-16GB-Bluetooth-F-S-from-Japan-NEW/123743161226
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looks like the Lexar 512GB card yields 483GB of usable space. its cool that you can record to internal media and copy to SD as a backup in the menu
(https://i.imgur.com/MBHHEXF.png)
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someone needs to take a chance on one of these $180 japanese units
i cant imagine a firmware flash wouldnt flip it to english
It won't.
Well I haven't tried with this particular product, but I lived in Japan for years and know that many of the JP market products from Sony, Panasonic and others are "homemarket protected" in the hardware and you will need to do a reverse engineering of the firmware to make it work. Not a trivial matter - if at all do-able.
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. its cool that you can record to internal media and copy to SD as a backup in the menu
On the fly or just after the fact? cross memory just records to the other media once it runs out of space on the one as far as I could tell
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after the fact via menu
works with recorded wavs but wont let you copy music files you load on there
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Can I connect my sp mics to this device or would I need a battery box or preamp?
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i dont know much about those mics but most people suggest a batterybox for high SPL recording
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ok :D
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Yes, though the frequency response might be flatter using a good battery box / preamp and using the line input of the recorder.
I like to make my own comparisons to see what works and sounds better; the A10 mic in plug-in power might sound great for quieter, acoustic shows.
Can I connect my sp mics to this device or would I need a battery box or preamp?
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Thanks. Will check this site to read what is available for batterybox/pre-amp that is small size and good quality ;)
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Can anyone provide some screenshots of the iOS app? I know I could look on iTunes App Store. But I would like to see this in action. What are you reviews of it?
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has anyone tried CA-14 mics without preamp using the mic input on this? I'm wondering just how stealth I could get with this. Currently use a CA-9100 amp but that's bulky. I have an UGLY too but if I could go without I might.
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^just need someone to measure the voltage output with a multimeter. I’m guessing it doesn’t put out more than 3V.
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^just need someone to measure the voltage output with a multimeter. I’m guessing it doesn’t put out more than 3V.
This is from the Help Guide:
MIC IN (Plug-in-power supported)
Input impedance: approx. 3.9 kΩ
Rated input level: approx. 2.5 mV
Minimum input level: approx. 1 mV
You can also "change the sensitivity level of the external microphone" in the Settings.
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^just need someone to measure the voltage output with a multimeter. I’m guessing it doesn’t put out more than 3V.
This is from the Help Guide:
MIC IN (Plug-in-power supported)
Input impedance: approx. 3.9 kΩ
Rated input level: approx. 2.5 mV
Minimum input level: approx. 1 mV
You can also "change the sensitivity level of the external microphone" in the Settings.
That speaks more to the input being overloaded. If I understand correctly the overload at high SPL would occur at the mics if they aren’t provided with adequate voltage.
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Thanks! Looks like the CA-14's really need 9V to not have distortion.
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ok I have one coming on Friday. Will report back.
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More A10 goodness
https://youtu.be/ild2E-w7nek
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pardon my janky microdot>minijack adapter cable, need to build a real cable
(https://i.imgur.com/BAvemsg.png)
recording test:
4018V > MMP-G > A10 (plug in power)
levels set at 13, handheld in front of monitors
also put both mics in calibrator with 94 and 114 dB test tone earlier on same track, in this case, the levels were peaking around 115 dB at the mics.
i see no evidence of brickwalling, and the noise floor when recording at this level (mics buried in foam in a box tucked away in a quiet place) was very low, -89dB RMS
https://soundcloud.com/user-760596491/4018v-mmpg-a10
smallest HQ rig ever? A10 is a wee bit smaller than d:vice + the smallest iphone
tested with edirol R07, it worked fine, and while voltage to mics was a shade higher, the noise floor was about 6dB higher than the A10
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That's pretty awesome! Now please do the same for Schoeps! 😎
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schoeps, as non-electret condensors, require polarization voltage. all DPAs, small and large, are permanently polarized at several hundred volts
the solutions that provide full 60V to the schoeps caps for polarization voltage are small-ish (naiant ipa, pip squeak, tiny box, and baby nbox in that order of size)
CMRs use a lower voltage source (4-10V) to provide voltage on a third wire to the active mic body which turns it into (reportedly) 40V polarization voltage which runs the cap at a 3-4 dB less sensitivity than a 60V solution like n-bobs, cmc6, kc5, vms02IB, etc.
advantages of CMR:
-uses less power than 60V polarization solutions
-simpler tech, easy to build your own battery box, circuit is literally battery, capacitor,and resistor, less than $20 in parts and good project for entry level hackers
-battery box can be super tiny. baby-bic size if built on 2 3V cr2032 coin cells or a single 6V 4SR44 or 4LR44
-is "official schoeps part" for the snobbish
disadvantage of CMR relative to N-bobs:
-higher cost
-slightly larger (longer) on the active end
-3-4 dB penalty in sensitivity vs 60V polarized caps (nearly moot point for most live taping situations)
-high voltage capsule polarization circuit is probably above the skill level of most DIYers, so youre dropping $200-$500 on a solution to power them (prob a wash on cost of n-bobs vs cmrs in most cases, but something to be aware of)
ive been a schoeps guy for decades. CMRs since 07. However,i cant deny the versatility of the DPAs in form and function so will be trying that for awhile. The fact that the smaller 4061/4099 series is compatible with the same solution that would run full size caps is great. There is not a show i couldnt get 4061s into. with the right caps in right location, there is almost nothing schoeps can do that DPA cant. would be nice if they had vertical diaphragm caps like 4V and 41V that had that ultra smooth off-axis response but hey what can you do? both of those caps come with a significant size penalty as well. DPAs omnis and subcards are right there with the best in the world
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smallest youre getting into a schoeps setup with A10 , CR2032 holder fits into the slimmer back area of A10:
(https://i.imgur.com/c2NPOjd.png)
youd be potting that cap and resistor into the top portion of that 2x CR2032 holder as well as input/output jacks or cables
DPA 401x w/active shown for reference. about 2/3 the size and weight, and smaller connector on the other end as a 2-wire solution. smallest you can do a pair of CMRs with is either a mini-xlr or TRRS. the factory 3-wire cables on the CMRs are considerably larger than the 2.2mm DPA 2-wire and its really tough to tie 2 cmrs into a TRRS jack without an adapter cable. Hard to see in pic, but DPAs are a mm less in diameter as well, they slide out of my usual schoeps holders
if anybody want to build that tiny bat box i can send you parts for free, i have a few of all of those
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smallest youre getting into a schoeps setup with A10 , CR2032 holder fits into the slimmer back area of A10:
*pic*
youd be potting that cap and resistor into the top portion of that 2x CR2032 holder as well as input/output jacks or cables
DPA 401x w/active shown for reference. about 2/3 the size and weight, and smaller connector on the other end as a 2-wire solution. smallest you can do a pair of CMRs with is either a mini-xlr or TRRS. the factory 3-wire cables on the CMRs are considerably larger than the 2.2mm DPA 2-wire and its really tough to tie 2 cmrs into a TRRS jack without an adapter cable. Hard to see in pic, but DPAs are a mm less in diameter as well, they slide out of my usual schoeps holders
if anybody want to build that tiny bat box i can send you parts for free, i have a few of all of those
Wow... That's impressive. What would be the run time on that? Very cool! A lot of this stuff is over my head. Circuits have never been my strong suit with science. :(
Can anyone take a screenshot of the iOS app? How accurate are the levels on the app from your experience? I am really contemplating pulling on buying one of these soon.
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Can anyone take a screenshot of the iOS app?
(http://)
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delivery changed to today. excited to check it out. Had a $50 amazon gift card so got it for $179 out of pocket. Might be selling my R09HR
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Good looks, ScottE! Doesn't look too bad. This would be amazing not to have to pull the recorder out anymore and risk of unplugging!
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schoeps, as non-electret condensors, require polarization voltage. all DPAs, small and large, are permanently polarized at several hundred volts
I know, I know. My comment was meant as a rather tongue-in-cheek one. ;)
Anyway, kudos to you for trying out all that stuff! I must admit I've never really looked into those DPAs, but would love to hear a comparison with a pair of Schoeps one day.
Also, I've always wondered if the CMR active end can be disassembled like the KC cables. These do indeed look interesting, but the stock Schoeps cable is a bit too heavy for me. So my real question is if it's possible to replace that with something thinner, e.g. Belden 1804A.
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More A10 goodness
https://youtu.be/ild2E-w7nek
Looks and sounds great. Thanks, Ed!
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More A10 goodness
https://youtu.be/ild2E-w7nek
what camera are you using for the 4K?
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More A10 goodness
https://youtu.be/ild2E-w7nek
what camera are you using for the 4K?
Panasonic Lumix ZS-100
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smallest youre getting into a schoeps setup with A10 , CR2032 holder fits into the slimmer back area of A10:
(https://i.imgur.com/c2NPOjd.png)
youd be potting that cap and resistor into the top portion of that 2x CR2032 holder as well as input/output jacks or cables
DPA 401x w/active shown for reference. about 2/3 the size and weight, and smaller connector on the other end as a 2-wire solution. smallest you can do a pair of CMRs with is either a mini-xlr or TRRS. the factory 3-wire cables on the CMRs are considerably larger than the 2.2mm DPA 2-wire and its really tough to tie 2 cmrs into a TRRS jack without an adapter cable. Hard to see in pic, but DPAs are a mm less in diameter as well, they slide out of my usual schoeps holders
if anybody want to build that tiny bat box i can send you parts for free, i have a few of all of those
Normally someone like me would pop up and say sure.LOL.No time at the moment, but good luck with project. Just add solder.
Richard
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No different schematic than the 9V battery box I’ve been running for years, just a lower voltage and ‘only’ 20-30hrs per set of 60-cent coin cell batteries. Circuit couldn’t be more simple just a current limiting resistor and a smoothing cap. There’s an on off switch in the top of the case you can put the components in, the biggest part is the jacks and cables in and out
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A-10 with my CA-9100. I thought it didn't have a headphone jack so I was pleasantly surprised. Also thought it was only internal storage but there's a micro SD slot. :coolguy:
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Maiden voyage last night. Ran my a-10 as a 2nd/backup rig for new mastersounds, akg ck77 > spsb10 > a10. Nothing new to add to thread, really. Thing is such a breeze to operate. Set levels and kicked off the recording with the app. Familiar sony metering. And the bluetooth range seems to be significantly better than that of my mixpre-6. This little deck is a winner, no brainer relative to the m10, imo.
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the whole mic assembly pops out, its only connection to the board are some reasonably large solder pads
(https://i.imgur.com/9o6Si4R.png)
I briefly considered mic-ectomy, or mic-upgrade to better caps, but alas it only gives them 1.45V.
A mic-ectomy would make this tiny recorder extra tiny, like big pack of gum tiny, as youd lose 1/2" of length on top, and that whole bulbous part on the back could go if you wanted to edit the rear case. thats like 20% of the volume. not a ton of metal inside, the extra paranoid could pop out the camera screw mount and lose a few grams.
(https://i.imgur.com/ApM6Q2l.png)
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found the elusive part number for the neoprene slipcase i lost almost instantly, waiting for a quote on price and availability
https://partstore.encompass.com/item/11742734/Sony/4-739-779-01/
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further testing of A10 powering 4011s with MMP-G actives, vs d:vice powering same mics
i used my tone generator/mic calibrator to calibrate mics to 114 dB = ~2-3 dBV for both tests to simulate similar input gain. Then, with input levels at same settings, i boxed the mics up in a hard drive box with egg crate and put them outside in a fireproof file cabinet (like a safe), and recorded noise both without any source, as well as with the same tone generator set at 94 dB in same cabinet (not even close to 94 dB at the mics, in fact it was peaking -65 to -70dB in both cases
the A10 was only at input level of 14
the d:vice was at input level of 72% in apogee metarecorder
so A10 appears much more sensitive
i took each file and normalized it to where the tone sounds similar volume to me in both cases, so you can hear the tone, and also the relative noise by each recorder at low level. to my ears the noise floor of the A10 sounds slightly greater than that of the d:vice, again, these are VERY quiet signals, like hearing open headphones from across the room. with foam earplugs in. with noisier mics like a 4061 there might be no audible difference
https://soundcloud.com/user-760596491/sets/a10-vs-dvice-low-level-noise
at this point we are really approaching self noise of mics. i can try to do same test on 4011s powered by a V3 w/phantom on a real mic body. maybe ill redo the test with 114 dB generator in the cabinet so i can match levels better between tests. noise should still be somewhat audible despite being 20 dB lower than signal
i think a good test would be to try the mmp-gs on a real battery box that provides 5-9V to the mics under load and see if headroom increases. there must be a reason dpa's own phantom adapters provide such a low voltage under load (when theyve got all teh jouice in the world to work with starting at P48). maybe theres little to be gained there
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Great work, man! Is there a special trick to opening it? I haven't tried it yet, but would love to see what's inside in terms of ADC chips.
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Great work, man! Is there a special trick to opening it? I haven't tried it yet, but would love to see what's inside in terms of ADC chips.
see pic above that has the back case off, sitting beside the unit. pop off the rectangular rubber plug at the top, and there are two screws underneath, remove them, then peel case back, the rest of the connection points are all snap-in, then once inside its all screws
I didnt get the main board out, was a limited number of components on back i noted the part numbers on the chips,below is a pic. i tried googling the part numbers and came up with nothing. i think the main ADC chip is on the other side of the board under the screen
(https://i.imgur.com/qVNsT0b.png)
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ok i did some more tests today with a better setup. i was trying to test high SPL, so i sacrificed some image for pure volume. needed to use my 4 biggest speakers (2x 200W+100W biamped BM-15A active monitors + their passive BM15 counterparts driven by an 80's kenwood Basic M1 amp @ 100 WPC. same MMC 4011 modular caps in all cases. i ran the monitors as hard as i could with brief blinks of the red lights on front which indicate amplifier clip point.
(https://i.imgur.com/2DMUA89.png)
first test was a reference using the MMP-E active cables (https://www.dpamicrophones.com/accessories/mmp-er-es-modular-active-cable-3-m (https://www.dpamicrophones.com/accessories/mmp-er-es-modular-active-cable-3-m) - the closest equivalent to the old 402x series), P48 powered XLRs that send 9V (under load) up to the caps, quoted as 131 dB dynamic range in specs (slight compromise to the full bodies, but probably the smallest practical 'small' rig)
i ran these into the V3>AD2K. used my 114 dB calibrator to set the levels to -16 dB at 114 dB on both channels. gain was 26 and 27.5 to try to match the caps which are off slightly in sensitivity. At this level FSD was approximately 130 dB which it kissed zero just once during the test, but consistently peaked up above -3dB. I cant recall ever running a V3 below 30 dB of gain in the field, ever, with CMC6s, so id say this is on the upper end of volume of anything id ever recorded
second test was same setup except using the MMP-G actives (https://www.dpamicrophones.com/accessories/mmp-g-modular-active-cable-microdot - spec'd at 122 dB dynamic range) into the d:vice>iphone
id say it held its own, I think i might actually prefer the sound of the d:vice with the 4011s over the V3>AD2K. AD2K+4011 is a bit too thin (though AD2K is my favorite with schoeps)
third test was same MMP-G into the sony A-10 with its own PIP. attempting to capture volume this loud did not go well. Slight audible distortion but more obvious was a serious dc offset and possibly input overloading. to keep levels reasonable i had to run the A-10 at 03 input level (of 100!). checkout this ugly waveform
(https://i.imgur.com/FFeFO6c.png)
heres the files
https://soundcloud.com/user-760596491/sets/4011-actives-test
so long story short (back to some A10 content): A10 PIP by itself is a poor match for 406x and actives at high SPL (406x behaved the same at high SPL), but i dont think its necessarily due to low PIP voltage. The problem (i think) is that the A10 only gives PIP with the input set to mic in, and its too sensitive and brickwalls it. I dont think you could use resistance to attenuate it without dropping the PIP power which is already on the slightly low side
The R07 mic-in is less sensitive on a side-by-side basis, might be a better fit if in fact input level is the limiting factor and not voltage. Will test it on similar setup next time i'm home alone and can get real loud. EDIT: R07 did in fact do a LOT better, see: https://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=189715.msg2300437#msg2300437 (https://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=189715.msg2300437#msg2300437))
the MMP-G+4011 would easily work with a small bat box feeding to A10 line-in. For what were trying to do, it could prob be done with a 2/3 AA 6V silver oxide LR44 (whole box smaller than a 9V), or the two CR2032 coin cells pictured above)
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I would honestly rather get rid of the external mics on this thing. I would never use them. Unless there was a way to take some AT853 (4.7k mod) and put them in that housing.
You said you could make a new backing for it to make it slimmer. How would you go about this. I am curious. You have peaked my interest a lot!
I did pull the trigger and order one of these. Looking forward to using it in a couple weeks time for my next show!
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you could 3d print it i guess
its already REALLY small
wait till you get one in your hands
I would honestly rather get rid of the external mics on this thing. I would never use them. Unless there was a way to take some AT853 (4.7k mod) and put them in that housing.
You said you could make a new backing for it to make it slimmer. How would you go about this. I am curious. You have peaked my interest a lot!
I did pull the trigger and order one of these. Looking forward to using it in a couple weeks time for my next show!
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sitting beside the unit. pop off the rectangular rubber plug at the top
Any recommendations on how to do that without damaging it? Mine seems to be super glued. ;)
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sitting beside the unit. pop off the rectangular rubber plug at the top
Any recommendations on how to do that without damaging it? Mine seems to be super glued. ;)
id use a small flathead and try to get under the short edge and pry up. The cap is kinda rubbery so you should be able to push it towards the center and get underneath it. I used a box cutter and it cut the soft plug
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While you’re doing all this surgery care to take a multimeter reading of the PIP voltage?
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While you’re doing all this surgery care to take a multimeter reading of the PIP voltage?
you dont need to open it up to measure PIP, see older posts in this thread
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While you’re doing all this surgery care to take a multimeter reading of the PIP voltage?
you dont need to open it up to measure PIP, see older posts in this thread
I’m aware, I meant in regards to already having the multimeter at the ready. I’ve read the thread as it was happening, though I don’t recall anyone taking a measurement. Care to refresh my memory so that I don’t need to re-read 20 pages of posts?
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2.75V unloaded, 2.2-2.4ish V loaded with DPAs
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what is "PIP" again?
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"plug in power" usually found on 1/8" trs mic input jacks
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thanks, gotcha.
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2.75V unloaded, 2.2-2.4ish V loaded with DPAs
Thanks.
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Why the a-10 is a keeper
https://soundcloud.com/edtyre/the-who-2019-05-26-cittzens-bank-park-were-not-gonna-take-it-see-me-feel-me
or this
https://soundcloud.com/edtyre/the-black-lillies-2019-05-09-sellersville-theater-snakes-and-telephones
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follow
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Hi, i just bought it and am confused.
I use Church audio ca and batterybox.
When i select external Settings there is "mic in" and "audio in" to select. What shall i choose here?
And is the locut just a Base roll off or a hard cut of Bass?
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does your bat box have gain? line in prob safest bet
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Mine had no power/charging cable when it arrived... which cable do you use to charge?
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Mine had no power/charging cable when it arrived... which cable do you use to charge?
Doesn't it charge via the attached usb "stick"?
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Mine had no power/charging cable when it arrived... which cable do you use to charge?
Doesn't it charge via the attached usb "stick"?
Thanks got it
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Hi, i just bought it and am confused.
I use Church audio ca and batterybox.
When i select external Settings there is "mic in" and "audio in" to select. What shall i choose here?
And is the locut just a Base roll off or a hard cut of Bass?
If your mics are omnidirectional, line in. If they're cardioids, mic in, low sensitivity.
Especially if they're cardioids, don't apply any highpass filters (aka bass roll-off). You can always dial it out in post-production but more often than not, I find myself dialing more in during post-production.
Sent from my SM-N960F using Tapatalk
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This thing has piqued my curiosity.
Two quick questions (and I think this is helpful for everyone otherwise I might've directed these at a couple of people via PM):
1/ I read somewhere (not on here) that the recording level adjustments are audible -- is this the case or has a new firmware been released for it?
2/ With the Baby nBox, I'm assuming it's still mic in, low gain, correct? And, from what I've recalled, the mic level inputs are better than the M10 but that the line level is noisier.
Thanks all!
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I personally have not heard any noise from adjusting the recording levels. I've used line in as well as mic in with the baby nbox
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...
1/ I read somewhere (not on here) that the recording level adjustments are audible -- is this the case or has a new firmware been released for it?
....
My guess is that it is impossible to fix in the firmware. I base this on two observations:
1) In the sales material for the Sony D10, Sony points to the analog gain control as a feature:”...because these are high-quality analog controls, you can adjust the gain smoothly, without the step noise that can be encountered with digital volume.” Thereby indirectly saying that they can’t make it noise free electronically/digitally - which is how it is implemented in the A10.
2) Roland R07 - a similar contemporary recorder exhibit a similar gain phenomenon as seen in the A10.
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Can you use the app on the Apple Watch?
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I personally have not heard any noise from adjusting the recording levels.
same
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I personally have not heard any noise from adjusting the recording levels.
same
Thanks guys!
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Is anyone using an S9 with this recorder? I'm considering grabbing one but if it has problems with this phone I'll get the Roland.
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So after a teardown Doug decided that this is not a candidate for modding.
From what i understand (and I asked for clarification, will update this im wrong)
the design utilizes the preamp that is internal to the A/D chips (it has two in parallel for better S/N), and there is currently no pin-compatible A/D upgrade so its dead in the water. overall its HQ though.
to quote (he talks about the d:vice as well which weve discussed a bit) :
I'm able to say it's fatally flawed in terms an upgrade because they use the internal to the A/D mic preamp. There is no pin compatible replacement for that ADC that offers better performance that I could locate. On the plus side they use high grade caps in the signal path and with high output mics, will do a good job. Using dual converters makes it even better. Given it's low cost and small size it's a good recorder for stealth tapers. I feel the DPA box is your best bet due to the quality of the components (he is talking about the MMA-A d:vice unit). It (the d:vice) could be improved only slightly by using a new op amp for the preamp. I know that chip well, it sounds damn good, I used it up until the end of last year.
his initial impression on the A10 (about a week earlier when he was just getting into it)...
I worked a little late last night and think that the A10 is impressive. It SEEMS to be using 2 AK4964 A/D chips, one for each channel. It also uses the same film caps I use in my best upgrades to decouple the mic power from the inputs. I've scanned the tech data for those chips and the mic preamp is surprisingly quiet with a DR of 100dB !
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This ^ seems like great news re the A10 quality.
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Just posted Phish from Merriweather with A10 as the recorder. Sounds great, with nbox in front of it.
http://bt.etree.org/details.php?torrentId=605955
Phish
23 June 2019 (Sunday)
Merriweather Post Pavilion
Columbia, MD
Source: Microtech Gefell M21 > nBob actives > nBox Platinum > Sony A10 (24/48)
Transfer: A10 > iMac. Tracked via Sound Studio, FLAC via xACT
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Anyone have metal detector experience?
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ive opened it up, there is very little metal inside, maybe 20g, or about as much as an average full-sized mic capsule
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I manage to get the m10 and Nbox past the hand wands and the walk-through with no issues (many many times now). 98% of the time it's a deterrent
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Thanks to all the people on this thread for sharing experiences and tips. I had my first festival experience with the PCM-A10 the other week.
Coming from an Edirol R09HR this Sony device is really a sweet little recorder. Very handy and comfortable to watch and set levels on the app.
Battery-life also being a plus. Recorded 4 bands that day and after that i still could use the battery for a long time to listen to the recordings.
Extra microsd card wasn't used but very handy if you have to record even more bands.
Only mistake i made was leaving my battery-box at home. The festival was so loud that i had to set the recording-level back to 1 (of 30) and got some light clipping.
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Only mistake i made was leaving my battery-box at home. The festival was so loud that i had to set the recording-level back to 1 (of 30) and got some light clipping.
Anyone know what the "sweet spot" volume setting is? IE: I have always read "4" for the M10
What about this A10?
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I manage to get the m10 and Nbox past the hand wands and the walk-through with no issues (many many times now). 98% of the time it's a deterrent
The ABS version of the nbox?
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further thoughts on A10 vs M10 by doug, presumably talking about using the internal preamps on each unit:
The stock A10 measures better than the stock M10, this is due to the CMOS switch. The modified M10 smokes both with a more than 25dB improvement which is very significant with a signal coming in at -30dB, typical with a condenser mic recording a PA. Stock, the M10 cannot max out its A/D chip.
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further thoughts on A10 vs M10 by doug, presumably talking about using the internal preamps on each unit:
The stock A10 measures better than the stock M10, this is due to the CMOS switch. The modified M10 smokes both with a more than 25dB improvement which is very significant with a signal coming in at -30dB, typical with a condenser mic recording a PA. Stock, the M10 cannot max out its A/D chip.
Thanks for all the info from Doug on this. Seems like a definite no-brainer for anybody wanting portability, quiet preamps and phone apps support for levels, etc.
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further thoughts on A10 vs M10 by doug, presumably talking about using the internal preamps on each unit:
The stock A10 measures better than the stock M10, this is due to the CMOS switch. The modified M10 smokes both with a more than 25dB improvement which is very significant with a signal coming in at -30dB, typical with a condenser mic recording a PA. Stock, the M10 cannot max out its A/D chip.
Thanks for all the info from Doug on this. Seems like a definite no-brainer for anybody wanting portability, quiet preamps and phone apps support for levels, etc.
Big Thanks to Doug, for taking all that time to give his impressions.
anyone know of a sick sale? I am convinced. :D
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Deals are hard to come by on such a new product. Best bet may be to keep checking Adorama for used (returned) units. I got mine that way for $199, unit was used but as-new. Certainly not a steal but when i think about paying $599 for a D7 in 1995, i feel a little better! Good luck
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mine is coming from amazon.de for 213 euros
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The ABS version of the nbox?
ABS = ?
Mine is all metal, if that helps
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The ABS version of the nbox?
ABS = ?
Mine is all metal, if that helps
Proof that these wands are tuned all over the map.
According to Doug, the Marantz 620 has less metal than either A10 or M10. So no A10 for me.
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The ABS version of the nbox?
ABS = ?
Mine is all metal, if that helps
Proof that these wands are tuned all over the map.
According to Doug, the Marantz 620 has less metal than either A10 or M10. So no A10 for me.
How does it sound is the question you should be asking, not how much metal it has. :-)
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further thoughts on A10 vs M10 by doug, presumably talking about using the internal preamps on each unit:
The stock A10 measures better than the stock M10, this is due to the CMOS switch. The modified M10 smokes both with a more than 25dB improvement which is very significant with a signal coming in at -30dB, typical with a condenser mic recording a PA. Stock, the M10 cannot max out its A/D chip.
does he still sell a modified M10?
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further thoughts on A10 vs M10 by doug, presumably talking about using the internal preamps on each unit:
The stock A10 measures better than the stock M10, this is due to the CMOS switch. The modified M10 smokes both with a more than 25dB improvement which is very significant with a signal coming in at -30dB, typical with a condenser mic recording a PA. Stock, the M10 cannot max out its A/D chip.
does he still sell a modified M10?
nobody sells M10s, theyve been out of production for a long time. Would he mod your M10, is a question for him i suppose. He's a reasonable guy, and prob wouldnt have mentioned it if it wasnt something he offers
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But you can probably get your M10 modded. I read that you no longer need to buy your PMD620 from doug to get it modded, so probably...
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How does it sound is the question you should be asking, not how much metal it has. :-)
Does it count if I record a lot of metal shows with it?
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The ABS version of the nbox?
ABS = ?
Mine is all metal, if that helps
Proof that these wands are tuned all over the map.
According to Doug, the Marantz 620 has less metal than either A10 or M10. So no A10 for me.
How does it sound is the question you should be asking, not how much metal it has. :-)
Fair enough Ed. The Oade modded 620 crushes the A10 and R07 And has far less metal.
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But you can probably get your M10 modded. I read that you no longer need to buy your PMD620 from doug to get it modded, so probably...
He does warm mods for sure on the m10, $200. Says it beats the 620 mod. But that I’d need a reference system to hear the difference. So I’m passing.
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The ABS version of the nbox?
ABS = ?
Mine is all metal, if that helps
Proof that these wands are tuned all over the map.
According to Doug, the Marantz 620 has less metal than either A10 or M10. So no A10 for me.
How does it sound is the question you should be asking, not how much metal it has. :-)
Fair enough Ed. The Oade modded 620 crushes the A10 and R07 And has far less metal.
I don't know who said the A10 had any detectable metal in it but it never set off any walk thrus or wands the 10+ times I used it.
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The ABS version of the nbox?
ABS = ?
Mine is all metal, if that helps
Proof that these wands are tuned all over the map.
According to Doug, the Marantz 620 has less metal than either A10 or M10. So no A10 for me.
How does it sound is the question you should be asking, not how much metal it has. :-)
Fair enough Ed. The Oade modded 620 crushes the A10 and R07 And has far less metal.
I don't know who said the A10 had any detectable metal in it but it never set off any walk thrus or wands the 10+ times I used it.
Doug took one apart and said it had more metal inside. Also said it had decent specs.
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see post above
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=188246.msg2300226#msg2300226
it has a single 22-26 ga plate on one side of the board, a camera stud mount, the (easily removable) mics, and the usb connector, thats about it. if the marantz has less metal in it it must be almost 100% plastic. keep in mind in that pic it looks like a lot of metal but the thing is literally TINY so its not that much
ive taken my d:vice thru a walk thru metal detector without incident, its housing is 60g of solid aluminum. A10 weighs 80g all-in including plastic case, board, batteries and metal. come to think of it, its prob more like 5-10g of metal (between a nickel and a quarter and prob less than a schoeps capsule or active end). i wouldnt think twice about A10 at a venue in regard to metal detector
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see post above
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=188246.msg2300226#msg2300226
it has a single 22-26 ga plate on one side of the board, a camera stud mount, the (easily removable) mics, and the usb connector, thats about it. if the marantz has less metal in it it must be almost 100% plastic. keep in mind in that pic it looks like a lot of metal but the thing is literally TINY so its not that much
ive taken my d:vice thru a walk thru metal detector without incident, its housing is 60g of solid aluminum. A10 weighs 80g all-in including plastic case, board, batteries and metal. come to think of it, its prob more like 5-10g of metal (between a nickel and a quarter and prob less than a schoeps capsule or active end). i wouldnt think twice about A10 at a venue in regard to metal detector
A few weeks ago OADE did the mod on my brand new M10, a spare I had for years. Transaction with Doug was easy and fast, I guess he will also mod used one's.
I did a stealth job with a regular and the moded M10. But I had to use different caps and different pre amplifiers.
To make things worse, the musician I taped had fog machine running during the whole concert.
I uploaded 2 samples...so you can get a feel for the difference....or not ;-))
MK4V-Nbox Platnium +20dB - OADE mod Sony M10 - Mic In
AKG CK 63 - Naiant Tinybox +18 dB - Reuglar Sony M10 Mic In
Download-Link
https://wetransfer.com/downloads/8116b0f9cdde2844696aa1faf994080820190704071313/386a5c845870773a48ec7cbb29d4095120190704071313/9d54bc
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MK4V-Nbox Platnium +20dB - OADE mod Sony M10 - Mic In
AKG CK 63 - Naiant Tinybox +18 dB - Reuglar Sony M10 Mic In
Do you use mic in with Nbox/Tinybox? I always use line in.
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MK4V-Nbox Platnium +20dB - OADE mod Sony M10 - Mic In
AKG CK 63 - Naiant Tinybox +18 dB - Reuglar Sony M10 Mic In
Do you use mic in with Nbox/Tinybox? I always use line in.
The M10 OADE mod can only be done to the mic in, therefore I will order a BabyNbox.... But to test I had to use 2 of the pres I own and the Nbox has a fixed gain to +20dB, so I decided to use the TB with the +18db setting with the shelf M10. Normaly I use the line in...with the pres.
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The M10 OADE mod can only be done to the mic in, therefore I will order a BabyNbox.... But to test I had to use 2 of the pres I own and the Nbox has a fixed gain to +20dB, so I decided to use the TB with the +18db setting with the shelf M10. Normaly I use the line in...with the pres.
Ok. Thank for the explanation.
I uploaded 2 samples...so you can get a feel for the difference....or not ;-))
I can honestly not hear any difference between the two samples. Is that a bad thing? I think Schoeps vs. AKG and Nbox vs. Tinybox should color the sound more. Worries me that my ears can't distinguish them. Not exactly sure what the OADE mod does but it's not obvious to me.
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from what doug described to me it seems like it helps noise floor - which will be difficult to asceratin in a comp at a loud concert if the levels are nailed. noise floor is prob well below room noise in both cases
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http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=109703.msg1465435#msg1465435
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http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=109703.msg1465435#msg1465435
not sure of the point of that... i consider both guysonic and doug to both be reputable in understanding and undertaking mods...and both have been huge contributors to the community. If doug is/was outsourcing board-level soldering good for him. dudes neck and back were wrecked decades ago and he was ordered by his doctor to chill on the benchwork.
He knows his way around a design and can understand whats going on and how to effectively unleash some bottlenecks necessitated by designers of mass-produced gear. Many of his mods disable other features of the design as a compromise, that the mfr probably thought useful to their design (but irrelevant to our purpose) - internal mics on pmd661 comes to mind.
That said, i think the greatest thing i ever learned from doug is "trust your ears". Which is why i take ANY mod (or ANY flavor-of-the-month gear for that matter) with a grain of salt until i get my hands on a real honest comp and can decide for myself. Sure a mod M10 may "crush" stock A10 and M10 on noise floor, but is that necessary for me to go stack tape a PA in a noisy crowd? up to the buyer to decide...
There are a few people over the years, like doug (and his brother jim), john siau, mike grace, jon from naiant, etc, that have taught me so much and answered question after question and provided guidance, not because they were necessarily business driven, but because they share a deep passion for their art. these are the people i like to support. Plenty of others that are in it for the money, and only the money, whos design and customer service (lack of) integrity inevitably shows itself at some point
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When recording amplified music, the greatest influence on the sound will be the quality of the amplification. For any real comparison of mods etc, it needs to be acoustic music. Or maybe I'm just an aged reactionary.
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When recording amplified music, the greatest influence on the sound will be the quality of the amplification. For any real comparison of mods etc, it needs to be acoustic music. Or maybe I'm just an aged reactionary.
True. But, even with amplified music, gear makes an audible difference:
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=184892.0;all
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this thing kinda pissed me off last night
i was at a fest and needed an extra recorder, wasnt planning on using it and grabbed it out of my backpack. i had the sd card out and internal memory was close to full... it filled up the internal memory and stopped recording.... heck if i could figure out how to delete music off of there from the device itself. was trying to just delete a whole artist as i dumped a bunch of summer phish flacs on there. While you can delete individual files it wasnt intuitive how to delete whole artists or albums. I gave up and trekked back to home base to grab an sd card out of another recorder, and lost more than i should
now after experimenting at home in a calmer environment i know to get there
go to music>artists>'phish'>'all phish'>(it takes you to a long list of all tracks tagged with that artist)>select any one track>'Option' button>'delete all in list'
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Well said Jerryfreak. Doug’s mantra has always been “trust your ears”. I bought a babynbox and after 2 shows, decided the m10 pres were very lacking to my ears. 620 warm mod is super sweet to my ears, kinda wished I’d known he modded m10s before I sold all theee and bought three 620s and had all three modded. :facepalm:
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Hi, i just bought it and am confused.
I use Church audio ca and batterybox.
When i select external Settings there is "mic in" and "audio in" to select. What shall i choose here?
And is the locut just a Base roll off or a hard cut of Bass?
If your mics are omnidirectional, line in. If they're cardioids, mic in, low sensitivity.
Especially if they're cardioids, don't apply any highpass filters (aka bass roll-off). You can always dial it out in post-production but more often than not, I find myself dialing more in during post-production.
Sent from my SM-N960F using Tapatalk
Bit confused here. Could use some conformation for my first gig with this new machine.
Rock Concert (Open Air)
AT853 cards + Naiant IPA + Sony A10
Settings:
Audio IN
Manual
Right?
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Hi, i just bought it and am confused.
I use Church audio ca and batterybox.
When i select external Settings there is "mic in" and "audio in" to select. What shall i choose here?
And is the locut just a Base roll off or a hard cut of Bass?
If your mics are omnidirectional, line in. If they're cardioids, mic in, low sensitivity.
Especially if they're cardioids, don't apply any highpass filters (aka bass roll-off). You can always dial it out in post-production but more often than not, I find myself dialing more in during post-production.
Sent from my SM-N960F using Tapatalk
Bit confused here. Could use some conformation for my first gig with this new machine.
Rock Concert (Open Air)
AT853 cards + Naiant IPA + Sony A10
Settings:
Audio IN
Manual
Right?
depends on the gain of the IPA
thats basically "line in, manual level control"
"mic in" will be higher gain, and also turn on PIP, but im pretty sure the IPA has caps to block PIP
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I've read a few reviews that say the battery drains while the unit is off. Has anyone had that experience?
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I've read a few reviews that say the battery drains while the unit is off. Has anyone had that experience?
havent noticed it. it does turn on quickly so prob lives in some sort of standby
ive never seen it drop a bar or anything in storage
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My a10 came in today. The app is great and works well with my s9+. Controls are easy and it pretty much disappears in my closed fist.
The usb is a little janky and I can see this possibly being an issue in the future.
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The usb is a little janky and I can see this possibly being an issue in the future.
It’s a holdover from their memo recorders and a really bad design idea. I had a USB extension cable female to male and that makes it easier to connect the A10 to my computer.
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Mine just arrived,it is tiny.
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Nice setup. I dig the headphones :cheers:
I like that the case leaves enough room for a right angle miniplug to stay in the mic input while protecting the screen.
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My unit has an issue.
I was doing low level tests of ambient sounds and noticed a click click click not always there but most of the time.External mics(3 different sets)built in mics and audio in with preamp.All produced this light low level click sound.You probably wouldn't notice at rock levels but mine is going back unfortunately.
Here is a 10 sec sample if anyone is interested.The most obvious of all recordings some were so low but still audible on headphones.
https://we.tl/t-EfYXovHiK2
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Very audible. That’s unfortunate.
Did you happen to do any parameter change during the part that clicks? Changing levels for example?
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My unit has an issue playing 2496 flac from the SD card
at some point most tracks will start to stutter and I have to reboot it
I haven’t been able to reproduce it using the internal memory. Second different sd card I tried, I tested the card fully written and read front to back it should be reading at 60 MB/second
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Mine just arrived,it is tiny.
what's that amp?
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Mine just arrived,it is tiny.
what's that amp?
It is Sonic Studios PA24-U
https://web.archive.org/web/20180113110109/http://www.sonicstudios.com/access.htm#micamp
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I can confirm that you can power the A10 with a power bank while recording. I may sell my M10 with this development...
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My unit has an issue.
I was doing low level tests of ambient sounds and noticed a click click click not always there but most of the time.External mics(3 different sets)built in mics and audio in with preamp.All produced this light low level click sound.You probably wouldn't notice at rock levels but mine is going back unfortunately.
Here is a 10 sec sample if anyone is interested.The most obvious of all recordings some were so low but still audible on headphones.
https://we.tl/t-EfYXovHiK2
That's a nasty surprise. Has anybody else here experienced this? Granted, I'm wondering how audible any of that would be with "louder rooms" but still unnerving to hear that. I was thinking of picking one up but this one is a deterrent.
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My unit has an issue.
I was doing low level tests of ambient sounds and noticed a click click click not always there but most of the time.External mics(3 different sets)built in mics and audio in with preamp.All produced this light low level click sound.You probably wouldn't notice at rock levels but mine is going back unfortunately.
Here is a 10 sec sample if anyone is interested.The most obvious of all recordings some were so low but still audible on headphones.
https://we.tl/t-EfYXovHiK2
That's a nasty surprise. Has anybody else here experienced this? Granted, I'm wondering how audible any of that would be with "louder rooms" but still unnerving to hear that. I was thinking of picking one up but this one is a deterrent.
Haven't seen any more reports of this but im holding off on this unit for now.Just stick with my M-10,DR-2d for now.
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My unit has an issue.
I was doing low level tests of ambient sounds and noticed a click click click not always there but most of the time.External mics(3 different sets)built in mics and audio in with preamp.All produced this light low level click sound.You probably wouldn't notice at rock levels but mine is going back unfortunately.
Here is a 10 sec sample if anyone is interested.The most obvious of all recordings some were so low but still audible on headphones.
https://we.tl/t-EfYXovHiK2
That's a nasty surprise. Has anybody else here experienced this? Granted, I'm wondering how audible any of that would be with "louder rooms" but still unnerving to hear that. I was thinking of picking one up but this one is a deterrent.
Haven't seen any more reports of this but im holding off on this unit for now.Just stick with my M-10,DR-2d for now.
Dumb question: is there any sort of firmware update available? And if there is, does this remedy it? Just thought I'd ask (but knowing Sony, there isn't).
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Wow that clicking is no bueno. I can confirm that my A10 definitely does not do this.
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My unit has an issue.
I was doing low level tests of ambient sounds and noticed a click click click not always there but most of the time.External mics(3 different sets)built in mics and audio in with preamp.All produced this light low level click sound.You probably wouldn't notice at rock levels but mine is going back unfortunately.
Here is a 10 sec sample if anyone is interested.The most obvious of all recordings some were so low but still audible on headphones.
https://we.tl/t-EfYXovHiK2
Was it doing this on the internal memory or a micro SD card, or both? Could a bad card cause this issue?
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This was the internal memory at 24/48 also 24/96.It was audible about 65 percent of the time on all low level tests.
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Wow that clicking is no bueno. I can confirm that my A10 definitely does not do this.
same, and ive looked at plenty of low level recordings to see the noise floor
send that shit back
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Has anyone established what unity gain is for "audio in" mode?
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Those clicks - actually peak to -22dB below full scale, are always the same shape, 8 samples long, but with ringing in the tail. I'd guess at a static discharge within a circuit capacitor - or in a connected mic. Have you tried swapping the mics over to the opposite channel, or connecting a different input device (or none)? And retesting in a different location, also being sure you don't have a mobile phone too near?
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My unit has an issue.
I was doing low level tests of ambient sounds and noticed a click click click not always there but most of the time.External mics(3 different sets)built in mics and audio in with preamp.All produced this light low level click sound.You probably wouldn't notice at rock levels but mine is going back unfortunately.
Here is a 10 sec sample if anyone is interested.The most obvious of all recordings some were so low but still audible on headphones.
https://we.tl/t-EfYXovHiK2
That's a nasty surprise. Has anybody else here experienced this? Granted, I'm wondering how audible any of that would be with "louder rooms" but still unnerving to hear that. I was thinking of picking one up but this one is a deterrent.
I just received mine yesterday, and it has the clicking issue only when I mash on the physical level switch. When I use the phone app to adjust levels, no such clicking on the recording. Weird, sounds like a hardware issue. The app is rock solid though, unlike Roland's attempt on the R-07.
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My unit has an issue.
I was doing low level tests of ambient sounds and noticed a click click click not always there but most of the time.External mics(3 different sets)built in mics and audio in with preamp.All produced this light low level click sound.You probably wouldn't notice at rock levels but mine is going back unfortunately.
Here is a 10 sec sample if anyone is interested.The most obvious of all recordings some were so low but still audible on headphones.
https://we.tl/t-EfYXovHiK2
That's a nasty surprise. Has anybody else here experienced this? Granted, I'm wondering how audible any of that would be with "louder rooms" but still unnerving to hear that. I was thinking of picking one up but this one is a deterrent.
I just received mine yesterday, and it has the clicking issue only when I mash on the physical level switch. When I use the phone app to adjust levels, no such clicking on the recording. Weird, sounds like a hardware issue. The app is rock solid though, unlike Roland's attempt on the R-07.
Mine clicked without any volume adjustments.It has been returned.
I guess i got a lemon?Might come back to one of these in the future but for now can't risk this type of issue so sticking with trusty M-10.
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Mine just arrived,it is tiny.
what's that amp?
It is Sonic Studios PA24-U
https://web.archive.org/web/20180113110109/http://www.sonicstudios.com/access.htm#micamp
Thanks!
I can confirm that you can power the A10 with a power bank while recording. I may sell my M10 with this development...
While cool (I assume through USB?), I can't imagine a situation where this would run out of juice.
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Joining the team in about a week when my deck arrives.
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Joining the team in about a week when my deck arrives.
I love mine....
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Joining the team in about a week when my deck arrives.
I love mine....
Glad to hear. Taking a small chance on picking one up that was a demo for a review on eBay. Mint but saved $40 off the best price out there so it was a no brainer. Looking forward to running it with a Baby nBox and my CK63 actives. Looking forward to the app.
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Joining the team in about a week when my deck arrives.
I love mine....
Glad to hear. Taking a small chance on picking one up that was a demo for a review on eBay. Mint but saved $40 off the best price out there so it was a no brainer. Looking forward to running it with a Baby nBox and my CK63 actives. Looking forward to the app.
The app is great. I did some "training" the other night with my stereo. I'm just waiting on my baby nbox now >:D
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I returned my Roland R-07 last month for a refund because all the front lettering rubbed off with hardly any use (I liked the recorder otherwise).
Just received an A10 as a replacement, but the control wheel "arrow down" was sticking :banging head:.
Feel a little exhausted :-\
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Quick Q as I'll have mine in hand in the next few days (and because I don't want to dig through 26 pages of stuff). What are the correct settings to use the A10 with a Baby nBox? Thanks all!
TIA!
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Quick Q as I'll have mine in hand in the next few days (and because I don't want to dig through 26 pages of stuff). What are the correct settings to use the A10 with a Baby nBox? Thanks all!
I don't have a baby nbox, but a tinybox with 0dB gain, so the signals should be pretty similar. I'm using audio in (line in), manual gain, levels set to somewhere between 12 and 16. But this is with Schoeps, so settings for your AKGs could vary.
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had an incident this weekend while >:D
pulled it out of my pocket to adjust something and went to unlock, it was already unlocked and the same downward motion turned it off. fortunately was between songs
i was adjusting levels with the app (which worked fine), but also monitoring and wanted to adjust the headphone volume which you cant do thru the app and need to unlock to do
"power off" requires a very slightly longer press to execute but still less than a second, so if youre messing with hold, if you do a "quick flick" to unlock it is safer
this could be easily remedied in firmware by making "power off" require a 2-3 second long press, or alternatively, requiring recording to be stopped before powering off
a patch would be to wedge something in the power-off slider slot, underneath a piece of electrical tape, to prevent the switch from fully going down (but still allowing the hold slider to operate.)
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I ran mic in with my Babynbox and my levels were between 2-3 (manual gain). The last band I turned down to one until the sound kind of stabilized. This was at some small DIY venue, so the board isn't like a normal venue(s) where everything is mic'ed the same.
For the most part, I've been using my tinybox (on low) and my gain settings on the A10 have been a little lower than Sebastian's. I don't get out nearly as much as I used to.
Quick Q as I'll have mine in hand in the next few days (and because I don't want to dig through 26 pages of stuff). What are the correct settings to use the A10 with a Baby nBox? Thanks all!
TIA!
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I ran mic in with my Babynbox and my levels were between 2-3 (manual gain). The last band I turned down to one until the sound kind of stabilized.
its very sensitive on the input. I was running IEM pack>A10 and had to turn the pack volume down to about 1/2 volume (on what should be a headphone out) to keep levels ok on A10 line input, with A10 input levels set to only 10-15. i was super worried that id be brickwalling the input but it was OK. I forgot that input level only goes 0 to 30, im used to my other handhelds which go 0-100
id try baby inbox with the line in. unless your A10 needs to have the levels all the way up to 25-30 it might be a safer bet. with any input you kind of want to be in the middle, like 10-20
if input level has to be really low, like 1-5 you are risking input overloading/brickwalling. if it needs to be really high like 25-30 you risk adding noise by taxing the A10's gain stage
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had an incident this weekend while >:D
pulled it out of my pocket to adjust something and went to unlock, it was already unlocked and the same downward motion turned it off. fortunately was between songs
i was adjusting levels with the app (which worked fine), but also monitoring and wanted to adjust the headphone volume which you cant do thru the app and need to unlock to do
"power off" requires a very slightly longer press to execute but still less than a second, so if youre messing with hold, if you do a "quick flick" to unlock it is safer
this could be easily remedied in firmware by making "power off" require a 2-3 second long press, or alternatively, requiring recording to be stopped before powering off
a patch would be to wedge something in the power-off slider slot, underneath a piece of electrical tape, to prevent the switch from fully going down (but still allowing the hold slider to operate.)
I've been close to getting burned with that hold being on the same slider as power on the A-10 too. I am using the D-10 and they definitely got it right by having separate sliders for power and hold.
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pulled it out of my pocket to adjust something and went to unlock, it was already unlocked and the same downward motion turned it off. fortunately was between songs
I've done that very thing with the M10. Sadly not between songs.
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Recorded a piano concert with the A10 the other week. Listening back i hear some ticking with telephone buzz/noise in the recording.
Is there anything that can be done to prevent that from happening or clean it up?
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:smash:
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I think I remember reading in this thread that there is no way to turn off the mic in power?
If that's the case, is powering additive? In other words, if I use a battery box will the total power provided the mics be battery box voltage + A10 voltage?
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I think I remember reading in this thread that there is no way to turn off the mic in power?
If that's the case, is powering additive? In other words, if I use a battery box will the total power provided the mics be battery box voltage + A10 voltage?
Battery boxes all (should) have series capacitors on their outputs so that the recording device never sees the battery voltage. Likewise, neither the battery nor the microphone sees the PIP voltage provided by the recorder, so the two cannot add.
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Thank you, good to know.
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Seems like the A10 might benefit from the hold system on the Zoom F1. On that, there's a menu option to turn on the "record hold" feature. Once that is engaged, when it is recording there is absolutely no way to stop it (not even turning off power) unless you press "stop" and "rec" at the same time. And the record button has a ring found it so it is fairly hard to press in accidentally, let alone with the stop button pressed as well. For all I know that may be an option on other devices, but apparently not the A10.
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I think I remember reading in this thread that there is no way to turn off the mic in power?
If that's the case, is powering additive? In other words, if I use a battery box will the total power provided the mics be battery box voltage + A10 voltage?
there is no pip if you don’t use ‘mic in’
When you plug in to it, it prompts you for ‘audio in’ or ‘mic in’ as well as auto or manual gain
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I think I remember reading in this thread that there is no way to turn off the mic in power?
If that's the case, is powering additive? In other words, if I use a battery box will the total power provided the mics be battery box voltage + A10 voltage?
there is no pip if you don’t use ‘mic in’
When you plug in to it, it prompts you for ‘audio in’ or ‘mic in’ as well as auto or manual gain
I was aware, but I appreciate your reply.
Unless I am running a preamp, I would always want to select mic in, correct?
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I don't run an A-10, but in the M-10, I will choose whichever gives me the most appropriate gain for the show. If I choose mic-in for a super loud show, I have to dial it down to about 2.
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depends. some mics have higher output. id say in *most* cases without a preamp you would want mic in, but not necessarily *all* cases
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Unless I am running a preamp, I would always want to select mic in, correct?
When I run a battery box to my M10, I plug into line in.
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depends. some mics have higher output. id say in *most* cases without a preamp you would want mic in, but not necessarily *all* cases
This. Depends on the mics and the volume of the show.
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Nothing to really add here except I just bit the bullet and bought an PCM-A10. Pretty excited for more pocket space, as I had been using a nearly 20 year old CNJB3 as my "stealth" deck.
For those of you with one already, what is this about Mic-line power? Will it supply voltage to the mics, removing the need for a bat box? I have a pair of AT831s that I got years ago from Church Audio he'd modified that I had been using with the simplest of battery boxes ever made, a straight chip on a 9V battery (again from CA).
Open to recommendations on bat box, been out of the taping loop for some time. Just looking for something that'll maybe last me another...20 years ;D
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use same battery box, line in to A10
Nothing to really add here except I just bit the bullet and bought an PCM-A10. Pretty excited for more pocket space, as I had been using a nearly 20 year old CNJB3 as my "stealth" deck.
For those of you with one already, what is this about Mic-line power? Will it supply voltage to the mics, removing the need for a bat box? I have a pair of AT831s that I got years ago from Church Audio he'd modified that I had been using with the simplest of battery boxes ever made, a straight chip on a 9V battery (again from CA).
Open to recommendations on bat box, been out of the taping loop for some time. Just looking for something that'll maybe last me another...20 years ;D
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Yeah, you can use your mics direct in to the mic in without a battery box (just like with an M10), but you'll get much better results with that battery box, since it provides much higher voltage.
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Thank you both for the reply. Hoping it'll arrive by the end of the week so I can take it on a test run.
Yeah, you can use your mics direct in to the mic in without a battery box (just like with an M10), but you'll get much better results with that battery box, since it provides much higher voltage.
use same battery box, line in to A10
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Mine is arriving Friday.
I have AT933's (SP version), CA-14's (Omnis & Cards)
Also have
CA-9200 Pre and a SP Battery Box
Going to a loud Rock show next week in the pit and want to try it out. While I would love to get away with no battery box, am I best off using Omni's and SP BB? Any chance of no battery box/pre? Anyone use it without battery box and has samples?
Thanks!
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you really need to power those CA-14's. Not sure on the AT's.
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I tried going without a battery box for this show (noise rock band):
https://1drv.ms/u/s!AlBz6g1ndWjHuExyISO6Sd2RE2P5?e=5zLDbc
It came out OK, but I think it would have been better with the BB. I had it set on recording level 1, so I didn't have anywhere to go if it had been much louder.
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Just got mine yesterday...Damm that thing is tiny. :bigsmile:
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I tried going without a battery box for this show (noise rock band):
https://1drv.ms/u/s!AlBz6g1ndWjHuExyISO6Sd2RE2P5?e=5zLDbc
It came out OK, but I think it would have been better with the BB. I had it set on recording level 1, so I didn't have anywhere to go if it had been much louder.
What kind of mics?
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I tried going without a battery box for this show (noise rock band):
https://1drv.ms/u/s!AlBz6g1ndWjHuExyISO6Sd2RE2P5?e=5zLDbc
It came out OK, but I think it would have been better with the BB. I had it set on recording level 1, so I didn't have anywhere to go if it had been much louder.
What kind of mics?
Radio Shack 33-3028. They call for 1.5V.
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WOW, this thing is TINY.
So what are some basic settings I should use for my first show? I plan on using just a battery box and not my pre-amp. Loud rock show level to start?
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Congrats! Before you throw away the packaging, do yourself a favour and check if operates as expected. Not to alarm you, I think they are mostly OK, but mine had to go back because of a sticky button, and another poster earlier in this thread reported about some clicking during regular recording. Better identify this sooner than later.
cheers
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Seems as if I should run CA14>BB>Line In>Level about 10 to start...
I tested it and detected zero issues, no clicking, etc...I always save the box/packaging anyways.
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I tested out the unity gain level with my FP-24 last night and came up with 3-4 on audio in. Is this consistent with others?
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for those who use this as a player, i was getting nuts have to retag LP sbds with sequential track numbers (1...20 or whatever, vs 1-8 for each disc, with 'disc number' field of 1-3 ) as A10 doesnt respect 'disc number' field
to solve this problem dont browse by artist.... broswe by folder, where it loads up the tracks alphabetically, problem solved
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Used model at Adorama for $189 if you've been on the fence due to price
https://www.adorama.com/us%20%20%201126735.html
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Wanted to share a rig picture, I bought a water/dust proof case off amazon for about $8 to hold the A10, it's a great fit for the a10 and mics, however little snug to also fit the battery box.
This is my tbar with the AT831 pair in XY going into an ugly bat box, then to the A10 in the case. Need to still get proper shockmounts for these little mics, the lav mic holders work well enough though.
Need to get a shorter audio cable, and one with a right angle so I can zip the case fully, however I'm pretty happy with just letting this hang while I monitor with my phone.
Going to run with this setup tonight at a local bar/venue
How are you guys setting up your rig with the A10?
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ive definitely electrical taped it to the stand in a pinch lol
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ive definitely electrical taped it to the stand in a pinch lol
Have a roll always with my gear, I just looped the rubber band from the bat box on the stand knob for the picture - tape is a way better idea for tonight, the "sunglasses" case has a fabric wrist band I hooked on another knob.
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This is my tbar with the AT831 pair in XY going into an ugly bat box, then to the A10 in the case. Need to still get proper shockmounts for these little mics, the lav mic holders work well enough though.
Out of interest, can I ask why you run XY? Do you get good results?
I also run AT831s open, and usually DIN (actually they're a little closer together than DIN, but still facing at 90° to each other).
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File date stamped with the start date and time, not the end date.
Can this be changed somehow?
Hungarian site emag.hu sells the unit for 150 EUR. We grabbed 2 :)
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File date stamped with the start date and time, not the end date.
Can this be changed somehow?
Hungarian site emag.hu sells the unit for 150 EUR. We grabbed 2 :)
I’ve never seen a dig recorder that used anything but the start date and time for files.
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I ran my A10 with Baby Nbox for the first time Friday night. I had to switch over to line in as even level 1 on mic in was too hot.
Recording sounds decent under non-ideal conditions (o.k. sounding venue, low PA volume, lots of talkers, DIN configuration).
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I ran my A10 with Baby Nbox for the first time Friday night. I had to switch over to line in as even level 1 on mic in was too hot.
Recording sounds decent under non-ideal conditions (o.k. sounding venue, low PA volume, lots of talkers, DIN configuration).
Similar boat for my first experience. I was in a good sounding venue but not ideal location (far left, under overhang, chatty crowd) and had to run line in because mic in was overloading with ease. Love the iOS app for controlling levels.
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I’ve been using CA-14, CA-Ugly and Roland R-05 for years.
I got A10 to replace for R-05.
A10 max input LV is 30. I made some recording tests.
It seems LV+2 input level change makes about +3db recording sound level change.
I’ll make my default setting as follows.
setting 1:
Ugly: Full volume
A10: LINE in LV 5
setting 2:
Ugly:Half volume
A10: LINE in LV 10
I feel setting 2 may be preferable but it is not a logical thought.
Which setting do you recommend?
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im leery running levels in single digits due to brickwalling but have never seen it in practice. LV10 is a safe bet. thats still a reasonably hot signal going in
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I've taped about 5 shows so far with my A10, with BabNbox and MK41's. All going line-in and levels varying from 16-20. All fairly loud shows and not anywhere near any stacks.
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UGLY supports both battery-box and preamp.
It boosts 20db sound level at full volume.
It did well with R-05 LINE IN.
It seems A10 recording level is higher than R-05 through LINE IN.
Recording level is louder with UGLY full volume.
So I need to reduce output level of UGRY by -10db.
Otherwise, I may get another battery-box without preamp.
Are there any suggestions for me?
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Is there a volume setting where there is no gain being added in nor reduction being taken out? Dont we usually call this the unity setting?
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Is there a volume setting where there is no gain being added in nor reduction being taken out? Dont we usually call this the unity setting?
I tested this out using the tone generated on the Mixpre6 and it was around 3-4 from what I recall.
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Has anyone actually used the internals? I'm curious about how usable they are (very low expectations).
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Has anyone actually used the internals? I'm curious about how usable they are (very low expectations).
The internal mic on the A10 is ridiculously bad.
I need to get a right angle 3.5mm adapter for this since the plug is on the side, but can someone clarify with me if there's a reason why I shouldn't get a 4 pole (TRRS) right angle adapter? Is it "backwards compatible" with 3 pole (TRS) devices that I plug into it? Because if it is, I feel like I might as well get the TRRS adapter as it's the same price.
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Has anyone actually used the internals? I'm curious about how usable they are (very low expectations).
Like most of the other compact recorders in the same price bracket. Useable for some things, but probably not for loud concert taping. Only had mine for a moment before I returned it, but I did an acoustic event with the internals that sounded ok.
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File date stamped with the start date and time, not the end date.
Can this be changed somehow?
Hungarian site emag.hu sells the unit for 150 EUR. We grabbed 2 :)
I’ve never seen a dig recorder that used anything but the start date and time for files.
All my other recorders (M10, PMD620, FR2LE) stamp the files with the actual finish time of the recording. A10 always stamp with the start time of the recording. I am not writting about the file names, I am writting about the file dates.
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https://youtu.be/r6cVwF_5jiI
My first time out with a10
schoeps mk41v > nbobs > babynbox > sony a-10 > 24/48 wav
Mine took a shit after one use! Completely dark won’t turn on
Real junk, buyer beware
That is pretty disconcerting news. Were you able to get the A-10 to power back up?
We bought one in August for a friend. Yesterday he told me that the unit is dead. Can't turn on.
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I need to get a right angle 3.5mm adapter for this since the plug is on the side, but can someone clarify with me if there's a reason why I shouldn't get a 4 pole (TRRS) right angle adapter? Is it "backwards compatible" with 3 pole (TRS) devices that I plug into it? Because if it is, I feel like I might as well get the TRRS adapter as it's the same price.
TRRS is for stereo headphones or earbuds PLUS a mono mic. One more thing to fail at best, certainly unnecessary, and incompatible at worst.
Let us know if it is awesome!??!
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I need to get a right angle 3.5mm adapter for this since the plug is on the side, but can someone clarify with me if there's a reason why I shouldn't get a 4 pole (TRRS) right angle adapter? Is it "backwards compatible" with 3 pole (TRS) devices that I plug into it? Because if it is, I feel like I might as well get the TRRS adapter as it's the same price.
Considering the adapter costs only a few dollars, I cannot see one single reason to buy the wrong one.
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first recording with the A10 last night. Loved it.
https://archive.org/details/mdoughty2019-10-23.flac24
So easy to use and didn't notice any external interference. LOVED the app to adjust levels and start/stop recording.
Used Line-In from CA-9100
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first recording with the A10 last night. Loved it.
https://archive.org/details/mdoughty2019-10-23.flac24
So easy to use and didn't notice any external interference. LOVED the app to adjust levels and start/stop recording.
Used Line-In from CA-9100
Agree about the app; love the fact that it's SO easy to use. My buddy doesn't see the point why I love it since it's not that hard to pull out an M10 and look but I love the fact that I'm simply "looking at my phone."
What kind of input level via Line-in did you use?
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first recording with the A10 last night. Loved it.
https://archive.org/details/mdoughty2019-10-23.flac24
So easy to use and didn't notice any external interference. LOVED the app to adjust levels and start/stop recording.
Used Line-In from CA-9100
Agree about the app; love the fact that it's SO easy to use. My buddy doesn't see the point why I love it since it's not that hard to pull out an M10 and look but I love the fact that I'm simply "looking at my phone."
What kind of input level via Line-in did you use?
well I think it was around 17 to 22, but it's not really a number you can use since my CA-9100 is analog gain and I "think" I had that up to about halfway.
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Time to lock this thread.
New thread:
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=192371.new#new (http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=192371.new#new)