Topic: I've been gone so long i'm a newb again, rebuilding my rig questions.

[drkstar10]

Hello all,

I've decided 2015 would be a great year to take my midlife crisis. I spent the last fifteen years with my nose to the grindstone and have reached the point I can sell my company, semi retire and have some fun again. I was going to get a Corvette, a couple of strippers and some blow, but thought it would be fun get back into taping shows again instead. My wife wholeheartedly agreed with choice number two.

I haven't taped a show in quite a while(2001) and I want to upgrade my setup to four microphones. I was thinking of running a pair of shotguns and a pair of cards and recording to a four track recorder to be mixed at home.

I still have all my old stuff. KM-184>v2>ad2k+>da-P1. The Tascam is a paperweight these days it seems. I liked the sound of the Neumanns and was thinking of getting Nak cm-300/cp4 mics to add to them.

So much new equipment has come out (and been discontinued) i am having trouble trying to figure out the best way to set up the rig. I was thinking of just picking up a used v2 and a 744. I have read some pretty good reviews of the 744's a/d on here.

Is anybody making 4 channel pre's or a/d converters. I need something I can carry around myself fairly easily and want to keep the weight down.

If I use an outboard pre>a/d it seems like the 744 is overkill and all I need is a "bit bucket"

my budget is pretty good (15k) ( I was contemplating tlm-170r's)

Anybody have thoughts on?

Shotguns (better choice than the Naks, I would prefer phanthom power over batteries)
Other mics to pair with the shotguns (tlm-170 vs the km-184)
A nice manageable 4 channel pre>a/d>recorder

Thanks,

Mark

 

[2manyrocks]

I hope you set aside some $ to pay your capital gains tax. 

Never owned a SD, but from what I've read, you don't really need a preamp with a 744-a very nice, all in one package.  Simplifies things so you can concentrate on your midlife crisis.

  

[acidjack]

With that budget I would just get a Sonosax SX-R4 or another super high end deck (SD788, etc) with at least four pres, dump the stuff other than your Neumanns, and buy those 170s you want. That will make a simple, incredible sounding rig. I'd skip the Nak guns personally as guns are kind of "out of favor" now and technically not really optimal for taping (I refer to DSatz's comments), as well as way inferior to the other stuff you are talking about getting. Welcome back!

[Cobiwan]

Are you sure you only want to do 4 channels? 2 sets of mics go well with a SBD feed. Have you considered the SD 788 or the Tascam HS-P82 and a new pair of mics? Don't know if you'd need much else besides batteries, etc.

[carlbeck]

I agree with Acidjack, unless you're taping in the back of an arena you won't need guns, more specifically I'd venture to say if you compared your gun source to the Neumann sources you'd hear the differences immediately probably negated the use of the guns next time you taped.

[Ultfris101]

If I had the $$ I'd get an SD 788 and like the others have said stick with the higher end mics.

[2manyrocks]

Forget the car, if you drive it, it will just wear out or get wrecked.  I vote for the strippers and blow instead.  Well, OK, maybe a trip to a tourist trap luau in Hawaii where they keep the Mai Tais coming.  Close enough 

The Mrs. would get at least half his stuff plus her attorneys fees.   

Yeah, buy a 788 or two. 

[willndmb]

Forget the car, if you drive it, it will just wear out or get wrecked.  I vote for the strippers and blow instead.

Do the strippers supply the blow?
If yes, what exactly do you mean by bl-ohhhh never mind 

[drkstar10]

To all,

Thanks for the input. I'm glad you all are agreeing with the 170's. I wanted a pair for years but could never justify buying them when they would only come out once or twice a year. They seem to have a great sound even in small clubs set to hyper.

I looked at the Sonosax  SX-R4 and it looks great but is not available anymore. The 788 looks awesome even with the lower sampling frequency. At my age (47) I doubt I would hear the difference anyway. I see there are 2 788's the 788T and the 788t SSD. The SSD looks like the one for me with the larger storage capacity and the solid state drive. I see B and H has the Neumanns and the 788. Anybody know of a place with a better price.

I was glad to see Ecocharge is still in business. Are they still the go to source for SLA power. Is someone making lithium ion battery packs?

Thanks everyone

Mark

[Cobiwan]

Mark, unfortunately EcoCharge is out of business, even though their website is still up. There are other battery options available though that are much lighter. You will find much debate over what to use. Naztech, Tekkeon, BatteryGeeks, and so on. You need to buy the rig you want and then buy battery solutions to fit. I'm not sure the best option for a SD 788 but I'm sure others have a recommendation. Welcome back to the game!

[jbell]

If I had the $$ I'd get an SD 788 and like the others have said stick with the higher end mics.

[stevetoney]

Sound Devices is great, but most people that have 744s use outboard preamps in front because they prefer the sound of their external pres.  If I'm spending 6 grand on a recorder, I'd better not have to think about preamps.  With that budget, I'd buy one of these before buying a Sound Devices because of the preamps... 

http://www.aeta-audio.com/index.php?id=4minx

Alternatively, I agree with Acidjack about Sonosax SX-R4 as a great choice, but as you've discovered they aren't available.  I've read that its replacement is coming out soon.  Unless you're looking to buy immediately, you might want to inquire with Sonosax when they're going to start shipping.

Finally, the TLM-170 are great mics for sure and if you're into those, I don't want to sway your opinion, but if I was starting from scratch with your budget, I'd strongly consider the Schoeps collette series.  Top notch sound, but also the array of products avaiable in the line is the best in the industry and Schoeps customer service is the best.

[StuStu]

Sound Devices is great, but most people that have 744s use outboard preamps in front because they prefer the sound of their external pres.  If I'm spending 6 grand on a recorder, I'd better not have to think about preamps.  With that budget, I'd buy one of these before buying a Sound Devices because of the preamps... 

http://www.aeta-audio.com/index.php?id=4minx

Alternatively, I agree with Acidjack about Sonosax SX-R4 as a great choice, but as you've discovered they aren't available.  I've read that its replacement is coming out soon.  Unless you're looking to buy immediately, you might want to inquire with Sonosax when they're going to start shipping.

Finally, the TLM-170 are great mics for sure and if you're into those, I don't want to sway your opinion, but if I was starting from scratch with your budget, I'd strongly consider the Schoeps collette series.  Top notch sound, but also the array of products avaiable in the line is the best in the industry and Schoeps customer service is the best.

I love my AETA 4MinX and bought it because I preferred the sound of the AETA PSP-3 pre sound over the sound of Sound Devices and Sonosax pre's. I've owned and loved both Sonosax and Sound Devices in the past and it's just my preference. The 4MinX is about $5k with 8 channels and no timecode.

[stevetoney]

Stu's response compels me to clarify my previous comment...the pres on the Sound Devices are great and I'd be very happy with them.  But like he says there's a couple of preamps with a sound I prefer, so if I were to spend that amount of money I'd consider going for something that gives me that sound onboard with the all-in-one. 

[Ultfris101]

The 788 has different preamps than the rest of the SD 7xx line, and anecdotally according to many who have used them they are superior.

In the end, it's tough to get any sort of consensus around here on just about anything.

You can probably rent most of the high end gear and considering the cost it's probably worth it to give it a spin yourself.

[stevetoney]

The 788 has different preamps than the rest of the SD 7xx line, and anecdotally according to many who have used them they are superior.

Oh hey right on.  I wasn't aware of this.  Thanks for the correction Chris and sorry for any misinformation I provided.

[jbell]

I've seen the 4minx and it is NICE, but you might also want to consider if you had to have some work done on the recorder the 788 wouldn't have to leave the country!!  Also it is smaller than the 4minx, if size matters to you. 

[drkstar10]

Size does matter to me. I have pretty much decided on the 788t. I am hoping to get away with not having to get an outboard pre or a/d.  That would make the rig so small I would probably go with u89's instead of the 170's.  Even if I used an outboard pre the same voltage as the 788  and shared batteries the system would still be pretty manageable. I can use my v2>ad2k+ for some nature recording my wife wants me to do for her.

I am a bit gun shy about buying 2 unmatched u89's and hoping they are similar enough. At least the 170's come as matched pairs. I think the 170's don't have quite the "full" sound of a U89. At least they will be close enough for stereo recording.

Mark 

[Cobiwan]

IMO, I don't think you can do much better than a pair of u89s, matched or not.

[acidjack]

Size does matter to me. I have pretty much decided on the 788t. I am hoping to get away with not having to get an outboard pre or a/d.  That would make the rig so small I would probably go with u89's instead of the 170's.  Even if I used an outboard pre the same voltage as the 788  and shared batteries the system would still be pretty manageable. I can use my v2>ad2k+ for some nature recording my wife wants me to do for her.

I am a bit gun shy about buying 2 unmatched u89's and hoping they are similar enough. At least the 170's come as matched pairs. I think the 170's don't have quite the "full" sound of a U89. At least they will be close enough for stereo recording.

Mark

Smart move. FWIW I like the 788 pres as well as anything, love Sound Devices' build quality and always like buying American if I can.

Might as well go U89s. FWIW I do not love the sound of 170s (at least the stuff I hear from the venues I go to) and agree w/ tonedeaf that Schoeps are the best overall line, and much easier to handle than LD Neumanns... but U89s are absolutely incredible, no doubt about it.

Do get your 788T with SSD. Solid State HD all the way.

[stevetoney]

OMG, I can't tell you how awesome it would be to have 15 grand free and clear to spend on gear.    My advice is to relish the moment drkstar10.  If you're like the rest of us, it's a once in a lifetime opportunity.

I'm sure you know this but nobody's pointed out that at this price point buying used can increase your bang for buck significantly in case something happens and a year or two down the road you're less than pleased and need to change gear or liquidate.  You don't absorb all of the depreciation buying used in that case.  The down side, of course, is no warranty and even matched mics may no longer be matched when purchased used.

[Datfly]

OMG, I can't tell you how awesome it would be to have 15 grand free and clear to spend on gear.    My advice is to relish the moment drkstar10.  If you're like the rest of us, it's a once in a lifetime opportunity.

I don't think there is one taper here that has not drooled at the thought of having an open 15k to spend on gear.!

[acidjack]

OMG, I can't tell you how awesome it would be to have 15 grand free and clear to spend on gear.    My advice is to relish the moment drkstar10.  If you're like the rest of us, it's a once in a lifetime opportunity.

I'm sure you know this but nobody's pointed out that at this price point buying used can increase your bang for buck significantly in case something happens and a year or two down the road you're less than pleased and need to change gear or liquidate.  You don't absorb all of the depreciation buying used in that case.  The down side, of course, is no warranty and even matched mics may no longer be matched when purchased used.

If you had 15 grand to blow on gear I hate to think about the length of that sig....

I agree about buying used, though if you're not price-sensitive (which it sounds like the OP isn't) I'd buy new for the warranty. The way most of us use gear -- unpredictable situations, outdoors, etc. -- stuff can get damaged.

Now I'm going to spend the rest of the day talking myself out of buying a 788T... by reminding myself that I presently lack $6000, which helps...

[jbell]

There is a 788T on ebay! Not the best price, but has a best offer so you might be able to work it down!

[drkstar10]

I made a best offer of $5500 on the new one and never heard back. A slightly used one popped up for $4800 so I grabbed it. Didn't have a scratch and is supposedly working fine. Time will tell whether that was a good move or not.

I spent last night till 4 am listening to my kind of music (Dead related, Keller, Martin Sexton, Franti, bluegrass, etc. with the 170's and the u89's. Definately going with the 89's. I am going to make some calls tomorrow and try to get a decent price on a pair.

I still need to replace some stuff I sold off (stand, batteries) and some stuff I just want to replace after over a decade laying around (cables etc. ).

I am relishing the chance to put together my dream setup. It took me a couple of years to go from my original rig AKG Blue Lines>Zefiro Inbox>D8 to a setup I really liked 184>v2>ad2k+>DA-P1. I am really psyched to be able to put together something sweet right from the start. Now I just need to find a show. Luckily (kind of) I live in NJ half way between Philly and NYC so something is always coming soon.

[Cobiwan]

Congratulations on the super pimp rig! You have chosen wisely.
If you are in need of new cables I'd highly recommend either

Ted  http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=133186.0
or
Robb http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=110932.0

to make them for you. Whatever you need; XLR, S/PDIF, battery, whatever (Ted even sells stand umbrellas). Talk to one of them. They both do fantastic work at a great price.
For stands- do you want something nice and sturdy that can go pretty high or do you want something small for stealthng? Maybe both?
An air cushioned adjustable light stand is what I use for my bigger stand, Impact LS-13HAB. For FOB/stealth I use a Manfrotto 5001B.
Don't forget you will need shock mounts and thread adapters to go from stand to mics.
Hope this helps!

[drkstar10]

Congratulations on the super pimp rig! You have chosen wisely.
If you are in need of new cables I'd highly recommend either

Ted  http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=133186.0
or
Robb http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=110932.0

to make them for you. Whatever you need; XLR, S/PDIF, battery, whatever (Ted even sells stand umbrellas). Talk to one of them. They both do fantastic work at a great price.
For stands- do you want something nice and sturdy that can go pretty high or do you want something small for stealthng? Maybe both?
An air cushioned adjustable light stand is what I use for my bigger stand, Impact LS-13HAB. For FOB/stealth I use a Manfrotto 5001B.

Don't forget you will need shock mounts and thread adapters to go from stand to mics.
Hope this helps!

Just ordered the U89's ($5500/pair). I'm already glad I went with them over the 170's.

Definitely going to hit up one of those guys for the cables. One of my mistakes last time was too long interconnects between the v2 and the ad2k+ and the ad2k+ and the dap1. the bag was a mess of wires.

I have a Manfrotto 3364 for a small stand. I am looking for something taller for outdoor shows.  I am also looking for quality wind protection for the mics. I'm hoping to find blimps for the u89's. I have really nice slip on wind screens from Litewave Systems but I cant find their website. I'm hoping Rycote has what I need.

[yug du nord]

ahhhh.................  yah mon...  congrats!! 

[Cobiwan]

If you have or can get windscreens for the u89s (http://mobile.adorama.com/NMWS89.html ) I'd recommend also getting a pair of Dead Muppets made for them. Tim does a nice job making them.
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=137563.0

[stevetoney]

I'm hoping Rycote has what I need.

Looks to me like the only thing Rycote has that fits the U89s is their mounts.

Neumann has a screen that cuts 27db which is pretty decent.

http://www.neumann.com/?lang=en&id=current_accessories&cid=db_current_accessories&dbid=77

I think I'd go with this and then for really windy outdoor taping, as Cobiwan suggested, have Tim make you a pair of furs to optionally slip over those screens...black would look professional, but he can make them in  some crazy hippy colors too.