Topic: Sony TCD-D100 complete NEWBIE - Help!

[guitard]

I've recently acquired a Sony TCD-D100 - and I'm planning on taping my first show tomorrow night.  It'll be just the deck and a Sony ECM-719 mic (please don't laugh or poke fun at the mic - I'll upgrade when I get the cash to do so).  I'm not expecting a masterpiece - just want to get something that sounds listenable that I can share around.

It's going to be the band Drowning Pool playing a big, boxy gymnasium.  I'm sure it's going to be plenty loud.

I'll be in stealth mode - but security won't be a big problem.

Based on reading through the manual and several threads here, here's my plan for the settings/positioning - please point out any changes I need to make:

1.  plug in through the line-in jack
2.  record at 48kHz (as opposed to 44.1kHz)
3.  use the manual adjust for the recording level, and set it at around 5 for starters - try to sneak one adjustment if possible - and then set the lock feature 
4.  Set the mic ATT switch at 20dB (as opposed to 0dB)
5.  record in SP mode
6.  get in the center of the floor area between the soundboard and the stage (around 50-75 feet between each) - staying clear of the moshpit (I'll pretty much be able to stand wherever I want)
7.  Clip the mic to the collar of my jacket

Any help will be greatly appreciated!  Thanks!

[rustoleum]

it's been a while since I taped analog-in on a DAT deck, but I'm pretty sure the "Hold" feature on the d100 does not actually hold the level control.  It only prevents you from hitting stop or pause accidentally.   Can anyone confirm?  If my memory serves me correctly, you'll need to be careful not to bump that knob once you stash the deck or else you could end up screwing the recording up pretty well.

Good Luck!

[nickgregory]

yes hold does not stop the level knob from moving.  tape all knobs and switches down

[tapeworm48]

yup hold wont keep the knob in place.  also i dont think the ATT setting matters when going line-in.
and i dont know how large the mic is, but placing it in a hat should be better than the collar.
plus if its in a gym, you might want to move closer to 1 stack to eliminate some of the room echoes...

make sure you know how to start up the deck without looking at it if stealthing.  screwed up my first ever attempt because of that 

[guitard]

Hey !!

This recording turned out much better than I thought it would.  Nice mix of instruments and the vocals are nice and clear.

The only bad thing is the drums.  This starts off really bad, and then gradually gets better and better through out the show.  One of the drums (bass drum I think) sounds just like a a coin or a marble being tapped really hard on a thick glass door or table top.  I think the general idea is "don't alter recordings" but if I don't do something about this drum sound, some might find it hard to listen to.

There was no moshing allowed, so I was able to get right up against the back of the main crowd in front of the stage - which put me about 25-30 feet from the front of the stage.  I had my jacket zipped open and the mic clipped to the front collar (neck hole actually) of my t-shirt. 

I have a chance to tape the same band (different, but similar venue) next week.  Would changing the position from which I tape the show make any difference as far as that drum sound is concerned?  Or is this just a shortcoming of the cheapo mic I have?  I assume the soundman must have noticed it also, because it did gradually become less and less annoying as the show went on.  I didn't realize this until I got home and listened to the tape.

Thanks for all your help. 

[bluegrass_brad]

sounds like the drum may have been overloading the mics or preamp.  Also you may want to consider using 44.1 if you are going to CD. 

[guitard]

Here's an mp3 clip of the last 15 minutes or so of the show.  If anyone would download it and give a listen and provide critical feedback, I'd appreciate it.

http://s6.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=1JTCL61N8FPPK1BIZQIM04V0E7

[Teen Age Riot]

Honestly, this sounds suprisingly good to me!

I can see why don't like the sound of the bass drum, but I don't think you did anything wrong. The reason why it sounds the way it sounds seems to be a combination of two things:
1) the poor bass response of the Sony mic and
2) the way the sound engineer mic'd and mixed the bass drum. It has a whole lot of high end and attack, but there's hardly any "boom".

I'm pretty sure 1) is the culprit, as I don't hear a lot of low end on the recording in the first place, neither on the bass drum nor on the bass guitar for example. But on the whole this sounds really good for a first show. Congrats!

 

Here's an mp3 clip of the last 15 minutes or so of the show.  If anyone would download it and give a listen and provide critical feedback, I'd appreciate it.

http://s6.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=1JTCL61N8FPPK1BIZQIM04V0E7

[chucky]

Guitard,

Gave it a quick listen. Not really into the music but +T for gettin it done.
That second song's Pantera Huh?
Seems to me that the levels are too hot, just like my first tape.
of course I'm no expert and I say this just by listening no visual.
Did you keep it just at or below 0? I try to have only a couple, few overs through out the show.

On another note you prolly can pull a pretty decent tape from these mics.
And yes , this does sound way better than I expected.

As far as finding a good spot, I use the PA and make me the 3rd point of a triangle and then back up about 3m or so. Also, I would take Tapeworm48s advice, and get that mic as high as possible up in a hat and head for a stack if you have to eliminate echoes.

Good luck next week

[guitard]

Guitard,

Gave it a quick listen. Not really into the music but +T for gettin it done.
That second song's Pantera Huh?
Seems to me that the levels are too hot, just like my first tape.
of course I'm no expert and I say this just by listening no visual.
Did you keep it just at or below 0? I try to have only a couple, few overs through out the show.

On another note you prolly can pull a pretty decent tape from these mics.
And yes , this does sound way better than I expected.

As far as finding a good spot, I use the PA and make me the 3rd point of a triangle and then back up about 3m or so. Also, I would take Tapeworm48s advice, and get that mic as high as possible up in a hat and head for a stack if you have to eliminate echoes.

Good luck next week

Thanks a million to those who downloaded this and listened to it.  Yes the second tune was Pantera - it was a tribute to Dimebag Darrell. 

At around twenty minutes into the show, I noticed that the the audio quality improved - not dramatically - but definitely better.  That was around the time that I backed away from the crowd a bit and that would have put me in that sweet spot you describe.  So no doubt, that's why it got better.

moon-pix:  I also noticed that the low end (bass) was not there.   

I'm definitely going to go with the mic clipped to my hat next time.  I had a baseball cap on at this show, and the mic just wouldn't work with a baseball cap.  I'm going to wear a black knitted winter hat next time.  It'll clip to to the front of that and that extra foot should really help.

Thanks,

guitard 

[chucky]

Uh Oh!!!

You really seem to be doing anything you can
to improve your sound quality, and man that gets expensive.

And then when you get that stuff it's on to improving your playback, and man that gets really expensive.

That black knit hat should work great, and if ya really need to get stealthy throw it inside a loosely
knitted hat or a fishnet baseball cap backwards.
Also, that knit hat will cut down some wind if your outside.