Taperssection.com
Gear / Technical Help => Recording Gear => Topic started by: voltronic on December 02, 2015, 08:30:37 PM
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Tascam DR-70D Product Page (http://tascam.com/product/dr-70d/overview/)
Reference Manual (http://tascam.com/content/downloads/products/867/e_dr-70d_rm_vb.pdf)
Previous discussion threads:
Part 1 (http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=170230.0)
Part 2 (http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=172109.0)
Part 3 (http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=172830.0)
Part 4 (http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=173960.0)
Part 5 (http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=174900.0)
FAQ Thread (http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=172795.0) (includes recommended settings, cases, batteries, list of known issues, modification discussion etc.)
SD Card Survey (https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1xDG-UQLwa1sbGcnGounjkqqycPLbqikVcN-TRGESjoY/viewform) and Results (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1nBCYtfZ0e9iQkGdq5N9aJwNsiOL90kpZq6tKfNAOf0w/edit?pli=1#gid=820901072)
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TASCAM DR-70D 4-channel audio recorder (Part "shoulda' bought a DR-SIX-D-D")
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TASCAM DR-70D 4-channel audio recorder (Part "shoulda' bought a DR-SIX-D-D")
How would that help people who need 4 XLR inputs? Did you mean 680?
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TASCAM DR-70D 4-channel audio recorder (Part "shoulda' bought a DR-SIX-D-D")
How would that help people who need 4 XLR inputs? Did you mean 680?
You lack sensitivity to humor or cynicism...but funny you mention that...
For me - I was looking to move away from rack pres and ADs feeding a JB3 that I had used for a decade...
Either of these decks was fine - I was one of the people who opted for the DR-70D because it had 4 XLRS!!!!
It seemed more flexible - and seemed part of the same series of products as the DR-60D - so I assumed the same reliability - enhanced by their fake "approved card" list.
But I could have lived with the 60...hence.
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TASCAM DR-70D 4-channel audio recorder (Part "shoulda' bought a DR-SIX-D-D")
perfect
Fwiw, I'm in the 60d no issues, works perfect club too
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Fwiw, I'm in the 60d no issues, works perfect club too
This.
I used to have 70D envy, but glad I've stuck with the 60D at this point although my taper buddies that have 70D's haven't yet experienced the glitch issue.
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TASCAM DR-70D 4-channel audio recorder (Part "shoulda' bought a DR-SIX-D-D")
How would that help people who need 4 XLR inputs? Did you mean 680?
You lack sensitivity to humor or cynicism...but funny you mention that...
No, I'd say it's more related to an obsession with responding to every negative comment that's ever been written and ever will be written on taperssection related to the DR70D. :love: :spin: :yahoo:
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Didn't you mean "shoulda bought a DR-SIX-0-D?"
A block of butta recorder not so bad after all.
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marked
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TASCAM DR-70D 4-channel audio recorder (Part "shoulda' bought a DR-SIX-D-D")
How would that help people who need 4 XLR inputs? Did you mean 680?
Tinybox into tracks 3 and 4 on the 60D works great for me to have a small 4 XLR input deck. Also allows greater flexibility on location of the 4 XLR inputs. The Tinybox does not really add much to the form factor.
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Here is a much better thread to use to discuss the DR-70D!
I call it "GRIPE ABOUT TASCAM! What is wrong with them?!"
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=175641.0
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OK now that I've posted that, I am going to bring up the next major problem I am having with this recorder. It looks like Gustav Mahler, and it's called Voltronic.
You are really pushing it with me, trying to limit my freedom of expression, and I will not soon forget this.
Why are you still on this thread, anyway? You're not contributing anything helpful to the discussion. Instead, you jump on here every time someone brings up an issue and call for product recalls or a grand inquisition. Since the Tascam rep isn't here anymore to read those, what's the point, other than your own self-gratification? You know full well that the things you're asking for have zero chance of ever happening. I get the need to vent your frustration, but it's really starting to get old and tired - someone please change the record. Some of us here want to actually talk about using this unit, and to help each other figure things out even when we have had some very serious disagreements (such as Tonedeaf and myself). If you aren't even using the 70D anymore, maybe it's time to move on.
I am not using the DR-70D much anymore because that recorder, and this thread are bumming me out a lot! It's hard to even want to try to make a recording with the piece of junk, when I KNOW that I need to run it as the B-unit due to its lack of reliability. But, that said, do I not have a right to participate in a discussion? Even inject my opinions which are different from yours? No?
I will not "MOVE ON" - especially now that it was suggested by the insufferable Gus.
Deal with me.
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Tinybox into tracks 3 and 4 on the 60D works great for me to have a small 4 XLR input deck. Also allows greater flexibility on location of the 4 XLR inputs. The Tinybox does not really add much to the form factor.
Good luck finding a tinybox, though! Now that they have been discontinued, they are pretty scarce. There are other small XLR pres, but none (that I can think of) as small as tinybox...
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So, my glitched card - failed when re-purposed in my camera...no pictures saved.
Now - my other "good" Lexar card - worked fine in the DR-70D - put it in the camera - no pictures saved...
So now the DR-70D has broken my camera...
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Are you saying that for effect or did it actually do something to damage the camera?
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Are you saying that for effect or did it actually do something to damage the camera?
For effect...for now.
I need to get another card for the camera...not sure what's happening.
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Are you saying that for effect or did it actually do something to damage the camera?
For effect...for now.
I need to get another card for the camera...not sure what's happening.
My second LEXAR card was last used October 23 running the internals for a few sets at a house party - those sets are fine.
Today - I transferred them. Deleted them from the card - popped the card in my camera. It didn't ask me to format. From the menus - I formatted.
The shots seemed to happen - but there are no pictures saved.
Later taking a look at the card - The TASCAM folders and sys file were still there - survived the camera "format"
Next I loaded the card on my computer - deleted the TASCAM folders, and did a full format...after seeming to run the routine normally - but then "windows could not finish formatting." message.
Encouraging - more likely my card is screwed, and not my camera.
In summary - here we have card that has performed flawlessly in the TASCAM - but now fails when attempting to use the card in another device.
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OK now that I've posted that, I am going to bring up the next major problem I am having with this recorder. It looks like Gustav Mahler, and it's called Voltronic.
You are really pushing it with me, trying to limit my freedom of expression, and I will not soon forget this.
Why are you still on this thread, anyway? You're not contributing anything helpful to the discussion. Instead, you jump on here every time someone brings up an issue and call for product recalls or a grand inquisition. Since the Tascam rep isn't here anymore to read those, what's the point, other than your own self-gratification? You know full well that the things you're asking for have zero chance of ever happening. I get the need to vent your frustration, but it's really starting to get old and tired - someone please change the record. Some of us here want to actually talk about using this unit, and to help each other figure things out even when we have had some very serious disagreements (such as Tonedeaf and myself). If you aren't even using the 70D anymore, maybe it's time to move on.
I am not using the DR-70D much anymore because that recorder, and this thread are bumming me out a lot! It's hard to even want to try to make a recording with the piece of junk, when I KNOW that I need to run it as the B-unit due to its lack of reliability. But, that said, do I not have a right to participate in a discussion? Even inject my opinions which are different from yours? No?
I will not "MOVE ON" - especially now that it was suggested by the insufferable Gus.
Deal with me.
That post was written in anger in frustration, and I may have gone too far. I also recognize that I committed a cardinal Internet sin of feeding the trolls (be they perceived or real). So I had your angry response coming, I suppose.
I can deal with complaints. In spite of what Tonedeaf says, I'm not in love with Tascam - in fact my opinion of them as a company has been steadily dropping based on their complete non-responsiveness to my customer service inquiries over the course of several months, and I've let them know about it (though I'm still apparently being ignored).
I've checked out your "Gripe" thread, and think that's probably a good outlet. If even half of the things I'm reading there are true, then Tascam really does have quite the track record of crap, and I probably would not have not bought a 70D had I known about all of that.
But what I can't deal with, and what pushed me over the edge to say what I said, was the continued celebration that we lost a valuable resource in the form of a company rep contributing here because some members here were rude enough to him to make him want to leave. Again, I think he should have stuck around and defended himself / his company, and told him as much privately. But, thin-skinned or not, Tom was a way for us to finally get some specific answers (even if you didn't like what they were) and I was really PO'd when he left. So when you guys started with the "good riddance", "product recalls", etc. stuff again, I got really annoyed with all of the mindless repetition of it all and that's why I wrote what I did.
I wasn't trying to limit your freedom of expression, but if that's how you feel, then I'm sorry. I'll do my part and stop responding when you or anyone else posts a complaint unless I have something helpful or productive to say.
But please leave poor Gustav out of this. He wrote some great music, and had to deal with a pretty rough personal life.
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This mightn't belong in this thread,... but since it was posted here, here is my question.
I d/l'd the official SD-Card formatter. I tried to operate it out of curiosity. I've received multiple windows that suggest that I need to unlock the cards write protect tab. I don;t use them, and both cards that I've tried have not been locked; one was from the DR70d, and the other from my Edirol R09.
My OS is Mac Yosemite 10.10.5
Am I missing something in the basic Mac setup with the SD prog that isn't allowing it to function?
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Are you saying that for effect or did it actually do something to damage the camera?
For effect...for now.
I need to get another card for the camera...not sure what's happening.
My second LEXAR card was last used October 23 running the internals for a few sets at a house party - those sets are fine.
Today - I transferred them. Deleted them from the card - popped the card in my camera. It didn't ask me to format. From the menus - I formatted.
The shots seemed to happen - but there are no pictures saved.
Later taking a look at the card - The TASCAM folders and sys file were still there - survived the camera "format"
Next I loaded the card on my computer - deleted the TASCAM folders, and did a full format...after seeming to run the routine normally - but then "windows could not finish formatting." message.
Encouraging - more likely my card is screwed, and not my camera.
In summary - here we have card that has performed flawlessly in the TASCAM - but now fails when attempting to use the card in another device.
I did some searching on that error message, and it seems that the actual partitions on your card may have either been borked or the first one somehow got deleted. If that's the case, formatting is not going to work.
This sounds like it could help: http://forum.xda-developers.com/wiki/SD_card_partitioning (http://forum.xda-developers.com/wiki/SD_card_partitioning)
EDIT: You can also do this without going third-party: http://workshop.botter.ventures/2013/09/17/how-to-partition-an-sd-cardflash-drive-with-diskpart-on-windows/ (http://workshop.botter.ventures/2013/09/17/how-to-partition-an-sd-cardflash-drive-with-diskpart-on-windows/)
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Thanks, I will also try to avoid responding with knee-jerk anger, and endeavor to keep this thread a valuable resource.
From now on, I'll just associate Ol' Gus with an ineffectual product rep, and leave it at that.
I wasn't trying to limit your freedom of expression, but if that's how you feel, then I'm sorry. I'll do my part and stop responding when you or anyone else posts a complaint unless I have something helpful or productive to say.
But please leave poor Gustav out of this. He wrote some great music, and had to deal with a pretty rough personal life.
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But what I can't deal with, and what pushed me over the edge to say what I said, was the continued celebration that we lost a valuable resource in the form of a company rep contributing here because some members here were rude enough to him to make him want to leave. Again, I think he should have stuck around and defended himself / his company, and told him as much privately. But, thin-skinned or not, Tom was a way for us to finally get some specific answers (even if you didn't like what they were) and I was really PO'd when he left. So when you guys started with the "good riddance", "product recalls", etc. stuff again, I got really annoyed with all of the mindless repetition of it all and that's why I wrote what I did.
A "valuable resource" makes an actual contribution. Tom's posts were so defensive and obviously, verifiably, B.S. as to be insulting. All you need to do to confirm this is look at the number of pages in this thread dealing with the technical details of SD cards. SD cards are a mature technology that every other company seems to be able to implement without too many problems. "Recording audio to SD cards is difficult!" Ridiculous...
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But what I can't deal with, and what pushed me over the edge to say what I said, was the continued celebration that we lost a valuable resource in the form of a company rep contributing here because some members here were rude enough to him to make him want to leave. Again, I think he should have stuck around and defended himself / his company, and told him as much privately. But, thin-skinned or not, Tom was a way for us to finally get some specific answers (even if you didn't like what they were) and I was really PO'd when he left. So when you guys started with the "good riddance", "product recalls", etc. stuff again, I got really annoyed with all of the mindless repetition of it all and that's why I wrote what I did.
A "valuable resource" makes an actual contribution. Tom's posts were so defensive and obviously, verifiably, B.S. as to be insulting. All you need to do to confirm this is look at the number of pages in this thread dealing with the technical details of SD cards. SD cards are a mature technology that every other company seems to be able to implement without too many problems. "Recording audio to SD cards is difficult!" Ridiculous...
He was dismissive if not outright condescending toward our concerns about the cards...and wasn't professional enough to ignore the more pendantic hardliners.
Then it turned out...they didn't even have the right list on their website!!!
And then they tried to make it seem like they were doing us a favor by figuring out what recorder that list actually was for...which voltronic eagerly reported here...what a relief!!!
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Morst, as always, thanks for the laughs. " i will not soon forget this" was my favourite line of yours. And who can forget your BBB complaint? Keep 'em coming!!
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IMO, it may have been a mistake for him to bail because the level of resentment appears to be growing. An apology or at least a simple, "I understand your concerns" or "let me try to help you" would have gone a long way towards heading this off. "I'm out of here" is not a good customer relations strategy.
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Another flawless 4 channel recording last night, perhaps I haven't had any problems because I'm using an approved card?
http://bt.etree.org/details.php?id=583704
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IMO, it may have been a mistake for him to bail because the level of resentment appears to be growing. An apology or at least a simple, "I understand your concerns" or "let me try to help you" would have gone a long way towards heading this off. "I'm out of here" is not a good customer relations strategy.
I had a few communications with him however I can't seem to find them now, from what I recall when things started to get crazy here he was told to no longer communicate with this Forum, I think it had something to do with the threat of a lawsuit.
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Another flawless 4 channel recording last night, perhaps I haven't had any problems because I'm using an approved card?
http://bt.etree.org/details.php?id=583704
Awesome for you...I've had mine for a year - until October 6 2015...there were no approved cards!!!
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I would like to point out, especially to the people here who may be newer, that compared to the history of TS.com the conduct in this thread has been completely civil. No one did anything remotely out of the norm, especially for an internet forum and double especially for TS.com, that should have made a product rep bail out.
Back in the day you should have seen some of the pile-ons we had around here. Anyone remeber the MGoldy "shove your mics up your ass" incident? Most of that stuff went the way of Team Dirty South when they defected and at least the forum has a almost SFW vibe to it now. I do miss Sally tho! :wink2:
I said it then and now - tomuo the Tascam rep bailed because his leadership saw a huge potential backlash coming from the problems with this deck and told him to get out to protect their own asses.
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Another flawless 4 channel recording last night, perhaps I haven't had any problems because I'm using an approved card?
http://bt.etree.org/details.php?id=583704
Which card are you using ? I got a new deck and I want to get a new card. Did you update the firmware ? I really want this deck to work.
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I picked a pny 64gig card from the approved media list.
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I picked a pny 64gig card from the approved media list.
Great hanging last night...For those asking its the PNY Elite. Its pricey but I have not had an issue using said card and use format right in the machine.
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Question: Is the issue one that occurs only at 24/96 and higher? I cannot recall seeing if there are parameters to what triggers the diginoise, but I feel like comments have inferred that it is only at 24/96 or higher. Thanks!
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I don't see any PNY cards on the approved list. Same card that I have been using as well
I picked a pny 64gig card from the approved media list.
Great hanging last night...For those asking its the PNY Elite. Its pricey but I have not had an issue using said card and use format right in the machine.
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I don't see any PNY cards on the approved list. Same card that I have been using as well
And there is the real reason tomu picked up and ran...so many people had used the old "wrong" list as a guide for their SD card purchases...
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New list link?
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New list link?
http://tascam.com/content/downloads/products/867/dr-70d_tested_media_list_20151006.pdf
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New list link?
http://tascam.com/content/downloads/products/867/dr-70d_tested_media_list_20151006.pdf
"The performance of the media may be degraded significantly if used repeatedly"
HUH? Has any other recorder or SD device ever carried such a disclaimer?
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Same list I was looking at and there aren't and PNY cards on that list!
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There are only 14 Sandisk and 4 Panasonic cards on that list of which 3 are NG. At least they gave fair warning that these 3 cards didn't work like the other models in the same line.
If the PNY elite card works fine, it could be that Tascam just didn't test it, but only Tascam would know. Or they went out and only bought what they thought were the "best" and/or least likely to give trouble to test? Who knows.
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New list link?
http://tascam.com/content/downloads/products/867/dr-70d_tested_media_list_20151006.pdf
"The performance of the media may be degraded significantly if used repeatedly"
HUH? Has any other recorder or SD device ever carried such a disclaimer?
I never saw this before elsewhere, so I just took a look through a bunch of the other Tascam recorders. Check out the media lists for the DR-22WL (http://tascam.com/content/downloads/products/860/dr22wl_tested_media_list_en_r2_20150210a.pdf), DR-44WL (http://tascam.com/content/downloads/products/861/dr44wl_tested_media_list_en_r2_20150210.pdf) and DR-680 MKII (http://tascam.com/content/downloads/products/873/dr-680mk2_tested%20media%20list.pdf).
The DR-680 MKII has one SanDisk listed with pretty much the same designation you quote from the DR-70D list:
※1
After repeated use, the write performance of this card deteriorates. It is suggested that
periodically audio files get transferred to a computer and the unit's ERASE FORMAT function is
used prior to further recording use.
EDIT: It appears that Tascam Europe has a different media list for the DR-680 (http://www.tascam.eu/en/dr-680mkii_cards.html) than the US site, with 5 additional cards not on the USA list, and 4 out of those 5 cards having the above designation.
The DR-22WL has one SanDisk designated as "C. Pass" which appears to mean the same thing as *1 for the 680D and 70D:
C.Pass = Conditional pass. Use the card after the format.
The DR-44WL has quite a few cards designated "C. Pass", most of them SanDisk.
So that qualification is not unique to the 70D, but maybe unique to Tascam in general.
One other thing interesting about the DR-22WL list is the 13 Lexar cards tested, all listed as "Fail".
As to why there are no recommended PNY cards or other brands, it looks like the media lists for newer Tascam recorders only have SanDisk, Panasonic, and Lexar. Sometimes only two of those, maybe based on all the Lexar failures with 22-WL. So my guess is that they just aren't bothering with other brands.
BTW - what list was the PNY card ever on? I can't find any PNY cards on any Tascam list, on either the USA or EU sites. I understand that the wrong media list for the 70D was posted on the Europe site, but the wrong list that was there was supposedly for the 100MKII.
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We all have our irrational prejudices wrt. cards and media. I mean irrational, because all cards and all media can fail and they generally are not too far apart from each other. FWIW, my irrational bias is that I avoid Lexar cards - I've had bad luck with them. I can't cite any statistics and objective evidence - which is why I call it prejudice... just personal experiences that drove me to such an (irrational) view. Same as I distrust Seagate and WD drives, and prefer Toshiba HDD. I am horrified to read about all the card failures with the 70D - I have not as yet had any, but now I distrust the 70D and wonder if I should keep using it... a decision made somewhat easier in that while the 70D has some advantages over the 60D (4 xlr), I must say, there are some advantages of the 60D (which I own) over the 70D too - primarily in button and menu control. I'm waiting for the 701D feedback, and if it's good, and the price falls closer to $300 - $400 instead of the $600 listed right now, I may switch to the 701D and leave the 70D behind.
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New list link?
http://tascam.com/content/downloads/products/867/dr-70d_tested_media_list_20151006.pdf
"The performance of the media may be degraded significantly if used repeatedly"
HUH? Has any other recorder or SD device ever carried such a disclaimer?
thats tascam covering their ass as people reported errors with approved cards they started sating that if you don't format it or it gets close to full blah blah you could have issues
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I don't see any PNY cards on the approved list. Same card that I have been using as well
I picked a pny 64gig card from the approved media list.
Great hanging last night...For those asking its the PNY Elite. Its pricey but I have not had an issue using said card and use format right in the machine.
Same here, I use 128GB PNY Elite's and haven't had any issues. I have ran into issues using them in my 680mkII but that's another story. ::)
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Another flawless 4 channel recording last night, perhaps I haven't had any problems because I'm using an approved card?
http://bt.etree.org/details.php?id=583704
The recording that's connected to your link appears to have the signal chain of "Schoeps mk22 (NOS)> Nbob KCY> Naiant Littlebox> Sony PCM-M10 @ 24/96"
I might not be the brightest bulb but I'm pretty sure there's no DR-70D listed. Am I missing something?
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I posted this in the Tascam gripe thread but figured I'd put it here in case anybody cares and doesn't see it over there.
I have nothing to gripe about.
I've got a $200 4-channel recorder that performs much better than any $200 4-channel recorder has any business to.
For more than 6 months I've been using it almost weekly to record 4-channels and have used it as a straight 2-channel recorder (with the 2-channel back up tracks enabled, so I guess even those instances are still using all 4 channels) probably half a dozen times on top of that and fortunately I've never had any negative issues. I'm recording everything at 24/48.
I'm using a Sandisk Ultra Plus 64gb Microsdxc Class 10 Uhs-1 Memory Card (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00NPJBYD0?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00) and have installed all of the firmware updates when they've become available.
I formatted the card in the recorder several times the only way possible via the older firmware version and did the new full format that's available with the latest version before I last used it. (Even the full format option only took a minute or so to complete).
I never put any of that into your spread sheet, but there you have it. I may be in the minority but so far I've had nothing but good luck with my DR-70D.
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I posted this in the Tascam gripe thread but figured I'd put it here in case anybody cares and doesn't see it over there.
I have nothing to gripe about.
I've got a $200 4-channel recorder that performs much better than any $200 4-channel recorder has any business to.
For more than 6 months I've been using it almost weekly to record 4-channels and have used it as a straight 2-channel recorder (with the 2-channel back up tracks enabled, so I guess even those instances are still using all 4 channels) probably half a dozen times on top of that and fortunately I've never had any negative issues. I'm recording everything at 24/48.
I'm using a Sandisk Ultra Plus 64gb Microsdxc Class 10 Uhs-1 Memory Card (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00NPJBYD0?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00) and have installed all of the firmware updates when they've become available.
I formatted the card in the recorder several times the only way possible via the older firmware version and did the new full format that's available with the latest version before I last used it. (Even the full format option only took a minute or so to complete).
I never put any of that into your spread sheet, but there you have it. I may be in the minority but so far I've had nothing but good luck with my DR-70D.
Please consider altering or deleting your other similar post, in the GRIPE thread.
Thank you.
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I posted this in the Tascam gripe thread but figured I'd put it here in case anybody cares and doesn't see it over there.
I have nothing to gripe about.
I've got a $200 4-channel recorder that performs much better than any $200 4-channel recorder has any business to.
For more than 6 months I've been using it almost weekly to record 4-channels and have used it as a straight 2-channel recorder (with the 2-channel back up tracks enabled, so I guess even those instances are still using all 4 channels) probably half a dozen times on top of that and fortunately I've never had any negative issues. I'm recording everything at 24/48.
I'm using a Sandisk Ultra Plus 64gb Microsdxc Class 10 Uhs-1 Memory Card (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00NPJBYD0?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00) and have installed all of the firmware updates when they've become available.
I formatted the card in the recorder several times the only way possible via the older firmware version and did the new full format that's available with the latest version before I last used it. (Even the full format option only took a minute or so to complete).
I never put any of that into your spread sheet, but there you have it. I may be in the minority but so far I've had nothing but good luck with my DR-70D.
The product name at that link is a sdsup-064g-a which does not appear on the "approved" list of cards, fwiw.
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The product name at that link is a sdsup-064g-a which does not appear on the "approved" list of cards, fwiw.
It would be strange if only approved cards worked - after all, they can't test all cards out there, there's got to be thousands. So it's a pretty good bet that many cards not on that "approved" list will work perfectly well, just you don't have the "guarantee" that you get with a tested card. So the question is: do you feel lucky :)?
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The product name at that link is a sdsup-064g-a which does not appear on the "approved" list of cards, fwiw.
It would be strange if only approved cards worked - after all, they can't test all cards out there, there's got to be thousands. So it's a pretty good bet that many cards not on that "approved" list will work perfectly well, just you don't have the "guarantee" that you get with a tested card. So the question is: do you feel lucky :)?
Yeah maybe, I don't know.
There was initially some to do because some people were experiencing "write timeout" errors with some higher capacity, slower writing cards if I recall correctly.
I bought that particular card around that time (not long at all after buying the recorder so it's the only one I've ever used) because somebody on here reported running it without those particular issues...
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Voltronic posted that he had trouble with an approved card SanDisk SDSDUP-16G here: http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=174900.msg2165885#msg2165885, but it's on the approved list.
The approved list shows SDSDUP- 32G as NG.
If there's a rhyme or reason why one card or the other works out of this SDSDUP series in the Sandisk line and the others don't, it eludes me. You'd think all the cards in a series would be good in the 70d?
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Look at the media lists for other Tascam recorders, like my earlier post about the 22-WL, 44WL, and 680mkII for just 3 examples. You'll see that all the cards tested in a series rarely if ever pass. I have no idea why different sizes in the same model series would perform so differently, but apparently they do.
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There was initially some to do because some people were experiencing "write timeout" errors with some higher capacity, slower writing cards if I recall correctly.
I bought that particular card around that time (not long at all after buying the recorder so it's the only one I've ever used) because somebody on here reported running it without those particular issues...
It was on this page of part 2 that user CheeseCadet reported using the above card successfully...
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=172109.180
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Look at the media lists for other Tascam recorders, like my earlier post about the 22-WL, 44WL, and 680mkII for just 3 examples. You'll see that all the cards tested in a series rarely if ever pass. I have no idea why different sizes in the same model series would perform so differently, but apparently they do.
It's also puzzling when a particular card is reported to work in one Tascam, but fails to work in another Tascam. You'd think that a card that works in one Tascam should work in all Tascam recorders, but evidently not so.
And you had trouble with a 16g from the approved list, yet johnfitz reports being able to use a 64g card which you'd think would be more problematic since it's a larger card that isn't even on the approved list?
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Look at the media lists for other Tascam recorders, like my earlier post about the 22-WL, 44WL, and 680mkII for just 3 examples. You'll see that all the cards tested in a series rarely if ever pass. I have no idea why different sizes in the same model series would perform so differently, but apparently they do.
It's also puzzling when a particular card is reported to work in one Tascam, but fails to work in another Tascam. You'd think that a card that works in one Tascam should work in all Tascam recorders, but evidently not so.
And you had trouble with a 16g from the approved list, yet johnfitz reports being able to use a 64g card which you'd think would be more problematic since it's a larger card that isn't even on the approved list?
Neither thing is that surprising. Different models from a different brand are going to have different hardware and software, and I think that would certainly affect how those different units read and write to the storage media, among many other things.
About your second point: I think they are just testing a handful of cards from popular brands, as others have already suggested. In this case, johnfitz is using a microSD card with an adapter. I don't think they would ever test any microSD cards, as this unit is designed for regular SD cards. That doesn't mean that none of them will work, as this one seems to.
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Another flawless 4 channel recording last night, perhaps I haven't had any problems because I'm using an approved card?
http://bt.etree.org/details.php?id=583704
The recording that's connected to your link appears to have the signal chain of "Schoeps mk22 (NOS)> Nbob KCY> Naiant Littlebox> Sony PCM-M10 @ 24/96"
I might not be the brightest bulb but I'm pretty sure there's no DR-70D listed. Am I missing something?
You're totally right, my bad. :cheers: Wrong link, here's the matrix from the DR-70D: http://bt.etree.org/details.php?id=583755
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Thanks, Noah. :cheers:
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Another flawless 4 channel recording last night, perhaps I haven't had any problems because I'm using an approved card?
http://bt.etree.org/details.php?id=583704
The recording that's connected to your link appears to have the signal chain of "Schoeps mk22 (NOS)> Nbob KCY> Naiant Littlebox> Sony PCM-M10 @ 24/96"
I might not be the brightest bulb but I'm pretty sure there's no DR-70D listed. Am I missing something?
You're totally right, my bad. :cheers: Wrong link, here's the matrix from the DR-70D: http://bt.etree.org/details.php?id=583755
I haven't listened to your show yet, but what do you think of your Busman mod? I have the JW mod and to my ears it's an improvement. Maybe you'd post your impressions in the mod discussion thread?
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=174046.0 (http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=174046.0)
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I've only ever heard my deck. I doubt I could hear a difference, I got the mod for my audiophile ego.
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I doubt I could hear a difference, I got the mod for my audiophile ego.
^^^That's the best!
So, I still have (2) nagging questions -
Has anyone had a "Time Writeout" error on any setting below 24/96?
sorry if I missed this sub-discussion.
Has the speed of the card been discussed?
My original SanDisk Ultra 16gb was 85mb/sec. (I believe).
I just picked up a 16 gb PNY rated at 90mb/sec in hopes that little bit will make a difference. I have a show on Saturday, and I don't want to fuck it up.
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I doubt I could hear a difference, I got the mod for my audiophile ego.
^^^That's the best!
So, I still have (2) nagging questions -
Has anyone had a "Time Writeout" error on any setting below 24/96?
sorry if I missed this sub-discussion.
Has the speed of the card been discussed?
My original SanDisk Ultra 16gb was 85mb/sec. (I believe).
I just picked up a 16 gb PNY rated at 90mb/sec in hopes that little bit will make a difference. I have a show on Saturday, and I don't want to fuck it up.
So far - there hasn't been any obvious rhyme or reason to why one card works and another doesn't...example - the 16GB SanDisk card is approved...but the 32GB version is marked "Do Not Use" - same class/product line/brand...makes no sense...
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And I have one each of those Sandisk cards. I ran the 32g knowing it wasn't approved and haven't yet had an issue. But I recently got a 16g in order to 'be covered' and it was twice the price of the 32g. It seems the more questions we ask the less we truly understand the nature of the problem.
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I doubt I could hear a difference, I got the mod for my audiophile ego.
^^^That's the best!
So, I still have (2) nagging questions -
Has anyone had a "Time Writeout" error on any setting below 24/96?
sorry if I missed this sub-discussion.
Has the speed of the card been discussed?
My original SanDisk Ultra 16gb was 85mb/sec. (I believe).
I just picked up a 16 gb PNY rated at 90mb/sec in hopes that little bit will make a difference. I have a show on Saturday, and I don't want to fuck it up.
Without this first question answered, most of the comments on this thread may be meaningless. If someone is chiming in on flawless recordings but they only record at 24/48 and the issue is at higher than 48kHz, then that is not relevant to the issue. Likewise, if knowing that the deck will run flawlessly below 24/96, at least people have a way of running safely.
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I doubt I could hear a difference, I got the mod for my audiophile ego.
^^^That's the best!
So, I still have (2) nagging questions -
Has anyone had a "Time Writeout" error on any setting below 24/96?
sorry if I missed this sub-discussion.
Has the speed of the card been discussed?
My original SanDisk Ultra 16gb was 85mb/sec. (I believe).
I just picked up a 16 gb PNY rated at 90mb/sec in hopes that little bit will make a difference. I have a show on Saturday, and I don't want to fuck it up.
Without this first question answered, most of the comments on this thread may be meaningless. If someone is chiming in on flawless recordings but they only record at 24/48 and the issue is at higher than 48kHz, then that is not relevant to the issue. Likewise, if knowing that the deck will run flawlessly below 24/96, at least people have a way of running safely.
Except the "Timeout Write" error is not the only issue, I've never had that problem however I did experience the skipping audio problem and I was recording 24/48.
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I doubt I could hear a difference, I got the mod for my audiophile ego.
^^^That's the best!
So, I still have (2) nagging questions -
Has anyone had a "Time Writeout" error on any setting below 24/96?
sorry if I missed this sub-discussion.
Has the speed of the card been discussed?
My original SanDisk Ultra 16gb was 85mb/sec. (I believe).
I just picked up a 16 gb PNY rated at 90mb/sec in hopes that little bit will make a difference. I have a show on Saturday, and I don't want to fuck it up.
Without this first question answered, most of the comments on this thread may be meaningless. If someone is chiming in on flawless recordings but they only record at 24/48 and the issue is at higher than 48kHz, then that is not relevant to the issue. Likewise, if knowing that the deck will run flawlessly below 24/96, at least people have a way of running safely.
Except the "Timeout Write" error is not the only issue, I've never had that problem however I did experience the skipping audio problem and I was recording 24/48.
That was what I needed to know. There are serious issues below 24/96. If that was made clear I couldn't find it once the thread grew so large. Thanks!
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Except the "Timeout Write" error is not the only issue, I've never had that problem however I did experience the skipping audio problem and I was recording 24/48.
That was what I needed to know. There are serious issues below 24/96. If that was made clear I couldn't find it once the thread grew so large. Thanks!
all the problems I had took place at 24/48.
Here's the one I posted:
https://archive.org/details/Cracker2015-07-07
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a show on Saturday, and I don't want to fuck it up.
Why not get a card from the list of cards that Tascam has posted? Those are the only ones where they have verified functionality. PNY does not appear on the list.
Tascam will say it's your fault for not using a card on the list, if it fails. Why give them the "out?"
"SDHC card(4GB to 32GB), SDXC card(48GB to 128GB) High speed cards required.
See the Tested Media List on the DR-70D DOWNLOADS page."
http://tascam.com/product/dr-70d/specifications/
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For once I agree with morst. You may be rolling the dice using an untested card - get one from the list. Make sure you get the exact card listed; not all sizes of a model series tested as OK. This has been said many times here before but some people still may miss it.
That said, if you have an unlisted card that you have used heavily (not just a couple times) with this recorder and had no problems, go for it. I ran 4 channels 24/48 for almost 3 hours last night with my old Transcend and everything was perfect. But I was only confident doing so because I've been using that card with the 70D for months and it's always been solid.
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I was just thinking as I was logging in, that we have more in common than different, I bet... We want the same thing - a reliable, good sounding recorder that's easy enough to use, and maybe even affordable to run! ???
This one is only reliable with cards from the short list. Ignore that at your peril. :facepalm:
For once I agree with morst.
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Run my deck again on Saturday.
I have used this same card many times on 24/48 with zero issues. The two previous times I used it, it was set at 24/96 and gave me "Time Write Out" error.
This time it was set at 24/96 with the same unapproved SanDisk Ultra card.
Three mins in, it gave the Time Write Out error message twice.
I powered my deck down, restarted it, and dialed it down to 24/48, and it worked flawlessly for the rest of the night.
So, I feel like it's a little victory for me, because I now know the problem my deck is having. No more (knock on wood) wondering if the deck is going to stop a recording. Which was really my biggest concern.
It sucks that I can not use my deck to it's full potential, and I'll deal with that on it's own; but at least I'm fairly confident that I can run it at 24/48 (or lower) with this card and have a trouble free recording.
I did get a PNY card with a higher speed rating (another trouble-shooting theory I have) which I'll get around to trying soon.
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Took my deck out for the first time in a few months with NO issues. 24/48 with a PNY Elite 32 gig card.
Love the sound of this deck with mic plugged directly in. Hoping I can chop of the show and post soon.
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natural-born risk-taker?
...unapproved SanDisk Ultra card...
but at least I'm fairly confident that I can run it at 24/48 (or lower) with this card and have a trouble free recording.
Why is that? Because it worked once?
I did get a PNY card with a higher speed rating (another trouble-shooting theory I have) which I'll get around to trying soon.
I wish you the best of luck. In all seriousness! Because I think you will need it. Please report in on your results!
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^ Agreed, if you got a write timeout at 24/96 I would avoid using it completely in the 70D. Just because it's working at 24/48 now doesn't mean you won't have trouble down the road - flash memory can have degraded performance over time (some brands or cards more than others) and I wouldn't risk it.
Of course I may be somewhat of a hypocrite using an "unlisted" card, but like I said it is one I have thoroughly tested over months at every combination of channels, sample rates, etc. and is what I have used with perfect performance since owning the 70D.
Since we're posting samples, here's the most recent from my 70, first time with the DPAs: https://www.gearslutz.com/board/remote-possibilities-acoustic-music-location-recording/1042650-dpa-406x-diy-carbon-fiber-stand-advice-4.html#post11542715 (https://www.gearslutz.com/board/remote-possibilities-acoustic-music-location-recording/1042650-dpa-406x-diy-carbon-fiber-stand-advice-4.html#post11542715)
And here's one I couldn't post on GS because of file size: just the woodwind quintet alone (https://www.dropbox.com/s/eof5oh0hni93yp4/12.%20Schweitzer%20-%20F%C3%AAte%20No%C3%ABl.flac?dl=0).
This was all running 24/48, 4 channels (just one stereo pair, but running dual rec at -12 dB as safety tracks) to the Transcend card. Between the dress rehearsal and the concert, I probably recorded about 10 hours with these settings over Friday and Saturday.
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Here's something to take note of...
Last night my board feed came off the back of a powered speaker that had a mixer built in.
RCA out to 1/8 input 1-2 on the DR-70D...but even with LOW on the TASCAM - feed was a bit too hot - knobs on the threshold of "off"
At set break, I switched to a 1/4 inch adapter on my RCA feed and went in the XLR...much better control of the signal for sure.
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Recorded 4 channels at 24/96 with my 64gb PNY SD Card on 12.18.15 and had another flawless evening with my 70D. I ran an m10 as backup out of my VMS02ib, but didn't need it in the end. Figures the ONE time that I didn't run my m10 as backup[festie this past summer], my 70D choked and I missed a whole days worth of stuff. But that was also with a microSD Card that I had NEVER tested before.
I think the deal with the 70D is having a compatible SD card. Seems like once someone gets a proper SD Card, their problems disappear!
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Here's something to take note of...
Last night my board feed came off the back of a powered speaker that had a mixer built in.
RCA out to 1/8 input 1-2 on the DR-70D...but even with LOW on the TASCAM - feed was a bit too hot - knobs on the threshold of "off"
At set break, I switched to a 1/4 inch adapter on my RCA feed and went in the XLR...much better control of the signal for sure.
It's worth noting that the max input level on the 1/2 stereo input is +10dBV, whereas the max on the XLR combo jacks when set to line is +20dBu (note the different reference). The difference between those two max levels is quite a bit - you can use this calculator (http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-db-volt.htm) to see exact numbers.
Analog audio input
1/L, 2/R, 3/L, 4/R connectors
Set to "LINE"
Input impedance 10k ohms or more
Standard input level +4dBu
Maximum input level +20dBu
1/2 connector
Input impedance 10k ohms
Maximum input level +10dBV
Minimum input level -50dBV
So if that RCA output was putting out significantly hotter levels than you'd expect from a normal consumer-level output, that could explain why you had much better results with the combo jacks.
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Recorded 4 channels at 24/96 with my 64gb PNY SD Card on 12.18.15 and had another flawless evening with my 70D. I ran an m10 as backup out of my VMS02ib, but didn't need it in the end. Figures the ONE time that I didn't run my m10 as backup[festie this past summer], my 70D choked and I missed a whole days worth of stuff. But that was also with a microSD Card that I had NEVER tested before.
I think the deal with the 70D is having a compatible SD card. Seems like once someone gets a proper SD Card, their problems disappear!
I think that pretty much sums it up. For those people who have used incompatible SD cards, the 70D has been frustrating and unreliable. With a compatible card (be it one tested by Tascam or not), everything seems to be OK.
While it may be annoying, the 70D is particular and/or more demanding with SD card performance. We may never know why since Tascam is unresponsive, but the fact is you must be careful about what card you're using or you risk running into problems, even at less than 24/96. Definitely start with the recommended media list, but you may also find untested cards that perform well (such as Bean and some others having good results with some PNY cards). Just be sure to test such a card very thoroughly over several uses before you use it for a recording you really care about.
Reports of record errors with the 70D are becoming few and far between lately. That could mean:
1. More people are now using cards on the recommended list (and again, it's fair to note there was no list for a while after release).
2. The 1.12 firmware update somehow improved things.
3. People are using the 70D less often in favor of different recorders, for fear of having a bad recording.
4. Everyone's tired of talking about it / doesn't care anymore. :-X
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Uh, my guess is #3
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Until someone figures out why it's so picky about cards or why one card works and the next one doesnt , what else could be posted? Its been educational. I'm going to be much more careful about choosing cards for all my devices.
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Definitely not #2.
Reports of record errors with the 70D are becoming few and far between lately. That could mean:
1. More people are now using cards on the recommended list (and again, it's fair to note there was no list for a while after release).
2. The 1.12 firmware update somehow improved things.
3. People are using the 70D less often in favor of different recorders, for fear of having a bad recording.
4. Everyone's tired of talking about it / doesn't care anymore. :-X
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I'm #3. I have a brand new unit that I have not used yet. I am almost afraid to update the firmware. I ordered a PNY elite card and I will go from there once it comes.
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I'm #3. I have a brand new unit that I have not used yet. I am almost afraid to update the firmware. I ordered a PNY elite card and I will go from there once it comes.
I'm on the latest firmware and everything is solid. Many of the people who reported problems were on 1.11, but that was also during the time when a lot of discussion on the whole card issue got going. So far, no one has reported any problem with 1.12 firmware (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1nBCYtfZ0e9iQkGdq5N9aJwNsiOL90kpZq6tKfNAOf0w/edit#gid=820901072), but correlation does not equal causation.
The only thing you're taking a risk on is using an untested card, but it may work out fine. If I were you, I'd play it safe and get another one that tested OK. I started using my Transcend card with it simply because that's what I had already when I got the 70D, and at that time there was no tested media list.
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I'm #3. I have a brand new unit that I have not used yet. I am almost afraid to update the firmware. I ordered a PNY elite card and I will go from there once it comes.
wild man. Ordering a card that's not on the list... WHY???
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The PNY Elite cards work in the DR70d!! I have used mine without issue. There have been zero reports of errors with these cards.
I'm #3. I have a brand new unit that I have not used yet. I am almost afraid to update the firmware. I ordered a PNY elite card and I will go from there once it comes.
wild man. Ordering a card that's not on the list... WHY???
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The PNY Elite cards work in the DR70d!! I have used mine without issue. There have been zero reports of errors with these cards.
I'm #3. I have a brand new unit that I have not used yet. I am almost afraid to update the firmware. I ordered a PNY elite card and I will go from there once it comes.
wild man. Ordering a card that's not on the list... WHY???
I've owned my DR-70D for exactly 1 year now - and my LEXAR cards worked...until they didn't...about 10 months, maybe 60 sets/shows.
Time will tell...the jury is still out - since the list only appeared in October - its probably too early to tell if the approved cards improve the situation.
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I have never had an issue with the PNY elite card.
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No issues in how many attempts?
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No issues in how many attempts?
all weekend at Vibes in July and none since...maybe 15-20.
At vibes I ran it for 3 days straight only stopping and starting.
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Keith - 24/48 or 24/96 or something else?
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Keith - 24/48 or 24/96 or something else?
24/48....I no longer record in 24/96 due to size and workflow time.
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So has anyone heard if Tascam is still assessing cards not yet on the list? I.e. Can we expect the list to grow? And if so, do our collective experiences with new cards have any influence towards this list expansion?
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I'm #3. I have a brand new unit that I have not used yet. I am almost afraid to update the firmware. I ordered a PNY elite card and I will go from there once it comes.
wild man. Ordering a card that's not on the list... WHY???
Everyone seems to be having good luck with the PNY elite cards so I figured I would give it a shot. I tried a Sandisk card that was on the approved list and Voltronic and I both had issues with that card. I trust Taperssection reports on cards more then Tascam's approved list right now.
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The pny elite 32g card appears to have a published write speed of up to 38mb/s. I wonder if the write speed of the card has more to do with the card working in the 70d than anything else? I'm still puzzled about what works and why?
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So has anyone heard if Tascam is still assessing cards not yet on the list? I.e. Can we expect the list to grow? And if so, do our collective experiences with new cards have any influence towards this list expansion?
I wrote to Custser@teac.com in september asking them to test the cards I had on hand, and they replied to check the list... but they did reply!!!?!
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A little DR-70D good-ness...
https://soundcloud.com/eugene-beecher/sets/yoko-miwa-trio-12-19-2015-late-show
Nice jazz trio...
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BUSTED!
This just in: I had a problem with a brand new, fresh-out-of-the-package Panasonic RP-SDUC32GAK card FROM TASCAM'S OCTOBER LIST!
(SDHC UHS-I (CLASS 10)R:90MB/s W:45MB/s)
Firmware 1.11 0054 appears to be the most current. I put the card into the deck, it gave me the inevitable error message for having purchased a new card, and so I let it do what it needed to. Recorded two shows, deleted nothing. First set of the second show, I hear a problem. Wonder what else is wrong with these recordings?????
https://archive.org/details/CVB2015-12-30
A brief glitch at 1:48 of t18 is entirely due to the defective Tascam DR-70D. It is in all 4 channels of the master files from the DR-70, but that sound does not appear at all on the masters made on my Sony recorders, including the one that was patched out of the Tascam's camera-out jack. Thus proving that the file glitching problem is confined to the card-writing part of the DR-70D, and not the audio signal path.
Discuss.
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There is a 1.12 firmware and I don't think anyone has reported problems with the new firmware.
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There is a 1.12 firmware and I don't think anyone has reported problems with the new firmware.
Did the 1.12 update do anything to fix the write error that's built-into the deck? OH - "OPERATION STABILITY HAS BEEN IMPROVED!" FUCKING D'OH!
t19 has a problem too... at 2:28.
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I believe so!! I haven't used mine much, but haven't had any problems recording shows or with home testing. This isn't my main recorder so it doesn't get as much use.
There is a 1.12 firmware and I don't think anyone has reported problems with the new firmware.
Did the 1.12 update do anything to fix the write error that's built-into the deck?
t19 has a problem too... at 2:28.
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I'm not hearing the issue on either track!!
There is a 1.12 firmware and I don't think anyone has reported problems with the new firmware.
Did the 1.12 update do anything to fix the write error that's built-into the deck? OH - "OPERATION STABILITY HAS BEEN IMPROVED!" FUCKING D'OH!
t19 has a problem too... at 2:28.
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I'm not hearing the issue on either track!!
listen again. they are short. The second one is about 1/10 second long
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update on the Panasonic "approved card fail" from my 1.11 firmware...
it was 4 channels of 24/48 but NO PHANTOM POWER. All line in this time, and in fact, all unbalanced, not that it would matter. My previous issues all took place when I trusted the machine, so I was using its phantom, but now that this thing needs to prove itself more, it's back to the end of the line now!!
The Cracker set from Petaluma, (Camper played, that's my example posted above, then Cracker played afterwards) has little problems in 3 of the first 6 tracks I've listened to carefully...
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I'm not hearing the issue on either track!!
listen again. they are short. The second one is about 1/10 second long
I didn't hear anything either until I realized the LMA player wasn't displaying the correct time index. The time it displays is not the actual time index of the file, it seems - I had to download the FLAC files to find the errors since that was the only way I could get to that exact time, and the errors are there, but not where those time indexes are saying on the LMA player.
1.12 firmware has been out for almost 2 months now. I don't think anyone has reported any card issues with that version, and the vast majority of people who did have problems were on 1.11 (but as I've said that may just be coincidence). I've used 1.12 for a while, and it's solid as far as I can tell.
FWIW, when I had the issue with my approved SanDisk SDSDXP-016G card I was on 1.11 firmware, and it happened after the second day of using that card. Since it had suffered what appeared to be a catastrophic filesystem meltdown and would no longer even be recognized by the 70D, I had no choice but to format it in my PC with the SD Association formatter using the "full overwrite" option. I also upgraded the 70D to 1.12 at the same time. After that, no problems. Is that because of using the SD Formatter or the 1.12 firmware, or both? I have no idea, but everything's working fine now.
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FWIW, when I had the issue with my approved SanDisk SDSDXP-016G card I was on 1.11 firmware, and it happened after the second day of using that card. Since it had suffered what appeared to be a catastrophic filesystem meltdown and would no longer even be recognized by the 70D, I had no choice but to format it in my PC with the SD Association formatter using the "full overwrite" option. I also upgraded the 70D to 1.12 at the same time. After that, no problems. Is that because of using the SD Formatter or the 1.12 firmware, or both? I have no idea, but everything's working fine now.
FWIW, that might be worth a lot, if they really fixed this with the 1.12 firmware, but are not willing to own up to the fact that it was a MAJOR bug, and now it may be resolved?!?
Let me quote the info file, linked from what's called the 1.11(!) version PDF on Tascam's site...
The site link is still right here, for the Downloads tab: http://tascam.com/product/dr-70d/downloads/
and the actual PDF that they call DR-70D firmware ver 1.11 release notes - 68.05 KB is here:
http://tascam.com/content/downloads/products/867/e_dr-70d_rn_ve.pdf
"Maintenance items V1.12 fixes
• The recording/playback level display now shows more precise level changes.
• Operation stability has been improved."
(font size and italics mine)
I'll keep using my same Panasonic card that failed on 1.11 when I have backup or don't care, and I'll try the Sandisk SDSDUP-016G when I need "reliability" haha. :facepalm: ??? :o :( >:( :'( :-\ :-X :-[ :P ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)
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I had a flawless run at Phish with the (mod) DR-70D.
Schoeps mk41v> Nbob KCY> Darktrain 30' extension cable> Naiant PFA> Busman Mod Tascam DR70-D @ 24bit/48kHz
&
Schoeps mk22> Nbob KCY> Darktrain 30' extension cable> Naiant PFA> Busman Mod Tascam DR70-D @ 24bit/48kHz
Have a listen:
12/30:
mk41v 16 bit http://bt.etree.org/details.php?id=584142
mk41v 24 bit http://bt.etree.org/details.php?id=584150
mk22 16 bit http://bt.etree.org/details.php?id=584151
mk22 24 bit http://bt.etree.org/details.php?id=584152
12/31:
mk41v 16 bit http://bt.etree.org/details.php?id=584160
mk41v 24 bit http://bt.etree.org/details.php?id=584161
mk22 16 bit **Coming Soon**
mk22 24 bit **Coming Soon**
01/02:
mk41v 16 bit http://bt.etree.org/details.php?id=584221
mk41v 24 bit http://bt.etree.org/details.php?id=584222
mk22 16 bit http://bt.etree.org/details.php?id=584225
mk22 24 bit http://bt.etree.org/details.php?id=584226
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Which card and firmware did you use, please? It would be helpful to know what is working.
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had no issues running 24/44.1khz for 3 straight nights using this card: http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-16GB-Class-MB-SG16D-AM/dp/B00IVPU6AA (http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-16GB-Class-MB-SG16D-AM/dp/B00IVPU6AA)
not sure I have the most up to date firmware as I have not updated it since I bought the unit, but i haven't encountered any issues so far with the above card
i got a 32bg Samsung card for X-Mas that I am gonna test out in the next few days, i'll update with the results. Generally speaking I've never encountered an issue using Samsung cards in any recorders I've owned FWIW.
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Hi,
I'm new to this forum so I'm not sure of the exact etiquette but what I would like is some advice.
I have recently bought a Tascam DR70 to use with my Canon 5D mk3 DSLR and so far I have found it a great improvement on the setup I have used previously which was the Canon with an external Rode Stereo mic on the hot shoe.
I hoped I could continue to use the Rode mic as the Tascam has a 3.5mm input jack but I have found that the Rode performs much worse than the inbuilt Tascam microphones which I didn't expect.I am using the mic to collect ambient sound rather than voice in interview for example.
Has anyone else had this experience and what what advice would you have for the optimum arrangement of microphones that I could use with the Tascam. I do a lot of walking to collect my material and any arrangement needs to be light ad relatively simple.
Thanks for your help.
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I, too, was surprised at the 70d internal mics when I tried them out with my camera. The built in mics are by far the most simple setup. I haven't used a rode camera mic, but I have recorded several concerts with audio technica at853s. Mine have a resistor added to so they can handle louder material. Sometimes I use a battery box. Sometimes not.
At853s can often be found in the yard sale here. You will need a mic holder to attach to your rig. You can make one from half inch cpvc pipe and two elbows.
Or you could buy mics and a battery box from church audio, a ts member.
If you have a bigger budget, dpa4060 or 4061 mics are very nice. They are so small that you can just use stiff wire to make a mic holder.
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You actually want to hear about successful runs with the DR-70D?
These two were made on the brand-new Panasonic RP-SDUC32GAK (SDHC UHS-I (CLASS 10)R:90MB/s W:45MB/s)
Firmware 1.11 No Phantom Power, 4-channels line in via unbalanced into the XLR combo jacks, at 24/48, with USB battery pack.
https://archive.org/details/CVB2015-12-29
https://archive.org/details/Cracker2015-12-29
they sound ok to me so far, if there are glitches, I have not found them yet.
After these recordings were made on 2015-12-29, I powered the deck down, took the deck home, removed the Panasonic SD card, put it into my MacBookPro's SDXC slot, transferred the files, "ejected" the card, removed the card, replaced the card into the DR-70D and probably turned on the deck to check the settings and time remaining. I would then have turned the deck off, and packed it for the next show, which is the one where it failed, about an hour in, using the same settings - line in 4 channels, 24/48, no phantom power, USB battery pack, still firmware 1.11, as I did not realize that 1.12 "improved operational stability."
First set of the second show, I hear a problem. Wonder what else is wrong with these recordings?????
https://archive.org/details/CVB2015-12-30
A brief glitch at 1:48 of t18 is entirely due to the defective Tascam DR-70D. It is in all 4 channels of the master files from the DR-70, but that sound does not appear at all on the masters made on my Sony recorders, including the one that was patched out of the Tascam's camera-out jack. Thus proving that the file glitching problem is confined to the card-writing part of the DR-70D, and not the audio signal path.
Discuss.
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Have not used a pre amp with the deck in a long time. Setting question using the ext 1/2...do I set the input to ext stereo or ext power?
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Have not used a pre amp with the deck in a long time. Setting question using the ext 1/2...do I set the input to ext stereo or ext power?
Ext Power activates plug-in power, so you want Ext Stereo with an external preamp.
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Have not used a pre amp with the deck in a long time. Setting question using the ext 1/2...do I set the input to ext stereo or ext power?
Ext Stereo activates plug-in power, so you want Ext Stereo with an external preamp.
Thanks. I thought so but wanted to confirm.
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Have not used a pre amp with the deck in a long time. Setting question using the ext 1/2...do I set the input to ext stereo or ext power?
Ext Stereo activates plug-in power, so you want Ext Stereo with an external preamp.
Thanks. I thought so but wanted to confirm.
Just saw the stupidity of what I wrote above, bit I think you got what I was going for. Edited my original reply.
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Hey, I just bought the DR70 and joined this forum after reading the first few threads about it. Looks like I have some catching up to do.
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I understood what you were saying. It is the default setting and now it is coming back to me. Its been such a long time since I used a pre with the deck I had to go back and check all the settings.
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There's a new Firmware V1.13 posted (incorrectly listed on their downloads page as "V1.31" !).
http://tascam.com/product/dr-70d/downloads/
The update notes state:
V1.13 fix
• When using the erase format function, writing speed would slow and a Write Timeout error would occur sometimes. This has been fixed.
I haven't tried it yet. But at least Tascam hasn't given up yet on the DR-70D.
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There's a new Firmware V1.13 posted (incorrectly listed on their downloads page as "V1.31" !).
http://tascam.com/product/dr-70d/downloads/
The update notes state:
V1.13 fix
• When using the erase format function, writing speed would slow and a Write Timeout error would occur sometimes. This has been fixed.
I haven't tried it yet. But at least Tascam hasn't given up yet on the DR-70D.
I'm going to give it a shot, it sounds like they a least think they addressed the problem, which is very encouraging. I for one know I used the "erase format function" before I encountered problems. I wonder if they will readdress the Tested Media list now that in theory the write issues may have been addressed.
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The wording of this update is a little surprising to me. The Write Timeout error is what would sometimes pop up for people during recording with certain cards. I never knew it could appear during formatting. I suppose that if you consider that an erase format writes to the whole card then it could be a similar condition to cause that error.
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Appreciate Tascam working on this...just wish it came sooner.
Let see if I get this right:
======================================================
TASCAM DR-70D Release Notes Updates
V1.10 additions
•Changing the format - The following options have been headed to the FORMAT item on the SYSTEM screen.
Options
QUICK FORMAT
: Initializes file system information only.
ERASE FORMAT
: Initializes file system information and initializes by erasing all user data areas on the SD card.
NOTE - Using the ERASE FORMAT option might restore an SD card that has decreased writing performance, but this process takes some time.
V1.13 fix
•
When using the erase format function, writing speed would slow and a Write Timeout error would occur sometimes. This has been fixed.
======================================================
Dr-701D V1.01 fixes
• Fixed a problem where some SD cards did not report the correct size after ERASE FORMAT.
• Fixed a rare problem where noise could be present in a recording at 96kHz and 192kHz.
• Operation stability has been improved.
======================================================
Seems over and over they have many problems with their erase format in both decks.
Did they have the problem in the DR70d too with "Fixed a problem where some SD cards did not report the correct size after ERASE FORMAT" that was reported for the DR-701D deck and just did not tell us they fixed it. How could it be in one deck and not the other? Not reporting the correct size after a erase format is pretty basic stuff for a programmer!!!
Has this been the problem we have been experiencing with our SD cards? Meaning their format routine...
Many have had noise recording at 96K.
The erase format is not a problem that I know of on any of there other tascam decks?
Do they use a new software program for the "erase format" in the Dr70s decks that they did not use on other decks and it did not work properly?
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The wording of this update is a little surprising to me. The Write Timeout error is what would sometimes pop up for people during recording with certain cards. I never knew it could appear during formatting. I suppose that if you consider that an erase format writes to the whole card then it could be a similar condition to cause that error.
I think the wording is a bit clumsy. I took it to mean that if you used the erase format function, a Write Timeout error could occur at any time in the course of general usage, i.e., during recording "sometimes".
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Gotta wonder if the "Write Timeout" was happening more than the recorder was reporting?
Plenty of us had issues that weren't obvious during use...
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man, they can't get it right on the website OR in the machine, huh?
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man, they can't get it right on the website OR in the machine, huh?
You noticed that too.. ::)
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disgusting. The release notes with the info about 1.13 are the ones titled
DR-70D firmware ver 1.12 release notes - 69 KB
2016-01-13 00:00:01
Has anyone tried "1.31" aka 1.13 yet? I am taking the deck as backup and wonder if I should if it a go??!? aargh. no.
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disgusting. The release notes with the info about 1.13 are the ones titled
DR-70D firmware ver 1.12 release notes - 69 KB
2016-01-13 00:00:01
Has anyone tried "1.31" aka 1.13 yet? I am taking the deck as backup and wonder if I should if it a go??!? aargh. no.
I installed it and did a couple hours of testing last night with the new version. I recorded a couple of hours of internet music, stopped and started a couple to times to create several files and then played it back. I didn't listen to 100% of what I recorded, but everything seems to be working fine.
I have some strong feelings about the text of this latest release as related to the run-around we've received from Tascam since the symptoms resulting from this issue were first identified to them, not to mention the fan boys that set up defense for Tascam against those of us that were actually experiencing the problems. But I'm gonna just bite my lip and leave it at that.
Bottom line is I'm glad that they identified that the problem was write speeds corrupted by the 'erase write' function and issued the fix to what we were experiencing. As someone else has already mentioned, a completely new 'cards that work' list seems in order since clearly the current list was developed before the fix was implemented.
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^ I thought you and I had buried the hatchet, TD? ::)
A few thoughts:
1. Whoever Tascam has updating their websites needs to be canned. There's no excuse, even for a much smaller company, to have these repeated misprints / typos. Take a look at the European DR-70D page for lots of errors.
2. Finally we appear to have somewhat of an explanation - that 1.10 was the culprit because of a faulty erase format routine. If indeed that has been fixed with 1.13, then maybe Tascam can finally get around to working on the other issues we'd like to see addressed (http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=172795.0).
3. After the very similar issues coming out with the 701D, I am now in the camp that Tascam is not to be trusted with testing their products thoroughly before release. I love the 70D, but it is probably the last product I'll buy from them.
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3. After the very similar issues coming out with the 701D, I am now in the camp that Tascam is not to be trusted with testing their products thoroughly before release. I love the 70D, but it is probably the last product I'll buy from them.
It took a while, but I just KNEW you'd come back to your senses.
Now, if people could get their hard-earned money back....
:P
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^ I thought you and I had buried the hatchet, TD? ::)
My comment didn't single anyone out specifically. Lots of people were involved with this over the last four or five months.
So as far as I'm concerned, there's no hatchet, only lessons to be learned. My hope in making the comment above is that people that were active in this saga will look back and reflect on what they'd do differently. I'm not proud of some of the things I said at points along the way (emotions get in the way of rational thought sometimes), but in the end I'm really glad that I had a role in pushing Tascam and not being satisfied with their interim explanations and/or 'solutions'. As poorly as I think they handled this overall, I do have to give Tascam credit for forging ahead with this fix. Perhaps they learned some lessons as well.
Anyway, the bottom line is we're all on the same team and we can use our collective 'voice'. A unified team is stronger than a fractured one.
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Your cards are worn out. Use only these 10 or so cards. Then release a firmware fix.
It would be interesting if a broader range of cards now work, and the underlying issue turns out to have been the firmware all along.
The real losers may turn out to be the 70d owners who sold their recorders at a loss.
Consumer reports has advised against buying the first model year of a car to give time to iron out problems. It could be good advise for buying recorders to wait a year and see what develops before buying a new model.
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^ I thought you and I had buried the hatchet, TD? ::)
2. Finally we appear to have somewhat of an explanation - that 1.10 was the culprit because of a faulty erase format routine. If indeed that has been fixed with 1.13, then maybe Tascam can finally get around to working on the other issues we'd like to see addressed (http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=172795.0).
Huh? - how do you figure that?
I have 1.00 firmware...
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^ I thought you and I had buried the hatchet, TD? ::)
2. Finally we appear to have somewhat of an explanation - that 1.10 was the culprit because of a faulty erase format routine. If indeed that has been fixed with 1.13, then maybe Tascam can finally get around to working on the other issues we'd like to see addressed (http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=172795.0).
Huh? - how do you figure that?
I have 1.00 firmware...
That's why I said I have issues with the text of their firmware update. I can't read between the lines, but I'll try.
I think they finally figured out there's a write speed issue with the 70D, which is what some of us had been hinting to as the source of the problem for a long time. The text implies that it was limited to an error in implementing 'erase write' on version 1.10, but you and I know that the issue pre-dated version 1.10. Frankly, I don't care if the update description is lame, as long as they fixed the problem. Let's hope that, regardless of the text associated with the v1.13 update, that they fixed the root cause of the issue this time.
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Here's a pretty nifty bag specially designed for the DR70D, if anyone's interested. Check out the demo video.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1200016-REG/k_tek_kstg70_stingray_bag_for.html
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Unless someone really sees a reason to upgrade the firmware I am going to stay put where I am. I have not had any issue using the PNY Elite card and have used the deck for both 2 and 4 channel recordings.
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^ I thought you and I had buried the hatchet, TD? ::)
My comment didn't single anyone out specifically. Lots of people were involved with this over the last four or five months.
So as far as I'm concerned, there's no hatchet, only lessons to be learned. My hope in making the comment above is that people that were active in this saga will look back and reflect on what they'd do differently. I'm not proud of some of the things I said at points along the way (emotions get in the way of rational thought sometimes), but in the end I'm really glad that I had a role in pushing Tascam and not being satisfied with their interim explanations and/or 'solutions'. As poorly as I think they handled this overall, I do have to give Tascam credit for forging ahead with this fix. Perhaps they learned some lessons as well.
Anyway, the bottom line is we're all on the same team and we can use our collective 'voice'. A unified team is stronger than a fractured one.
Fair enough. :cheers:
I think what would be really great is if Tascam could take a page out of Zoom's customer service playbook (never thought I'd say that) and really listen and respond to users in a timely and thorough fashion. Would I be correct in saying that for those of you that have had problems with this and other Tascam products that the the customer service end is almost equally as frustrating as the actual problems you've had with the product?
Also I'm hopeful that they are getting things on track, but we'll have to see if that bears out.
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Here's a pretty nifty bag specially designed for the DR70D, if anyone's interested. Check out the demo video.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1200016-REG/k_tek_kstg70_stingray_bag_for.html
Very slick - I just put it at the top of the gear bag list on the 70D FAQ page. I wish you could actually fully enclose the unit though without the cutouts for the 1/4"-20 mount and the built-in mics. But for its intended use it seems great.
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Would I be correct in saying that for those of you that have had problems with this and other Tascam products that the the customer service end is almost equally as frustrating as the actual problems you've had with the product?
More so...
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Would I be correct in saying that for those of you that have had problems with this and other Tascam products that the the customer service end is almost equally as frustrating as the actual problems you've had with the product?
More so...
Yes. I could spell it out, but it's really just Customer Service 101, especially dealing with people that are providing feedback on new products.
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Unless someone really sees a reason to upgrade the firmware I am going to stay put where I am. I have not had any issue using the PNY Elite card and have used the deck for both 2 and 4 channel recordings.
If it's working for you, I wouldn't upgrade, either. I think it would be better for Tascam and its customers if Tascam more clearly stated what the firmware improves. If the firmware is intended to fix write timeout errors, make that plain as day. It gets everyone on the same page.
Wouldn't pay $95 for a bag for a $200 recorder. :o
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I picked up a new 70D the other day to try out and see how it works for me.
Anyway, I installed a set of totaly new Eneloop Pro, just out of the charger and played around with it. Its firmware was still on rev 1.01 so I dowloaded the latest firmware 1.13 and updated it.
I then noticed that the battery meter read very low even though the NiMH cells should be pretty full.
After a changed it between "Alkal" and "NiMH" it seemed that there's a bug in the settings.
Tascam apparently have mixed up Alkal and NiMH settings.
When the battery type is set to Alkal though NiMH is used the battery meter is showing a higher reading and vice versa.
It should be the other way around.
Is this a know bug?
Anyway, I emailed their support and asked about it.
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Had the same experience with my new DR70, after installation of fresh ENELOOP PRO 2500mA and updated to ver 1.13.
Sofar it looks like I have a stable recorder (8Gb card) but my battery indicator seam to behave badly and it certainly looks like Alkaline/NiMh selector has been switched or algoritme is weak. most of the time it shows 50% left.
I have another peculiar thing that does no harm but is yet annoying in menues.
I do not like that the phrase "MIC" is used for diferent things in menues, it should be distinguissed where needed (internal MIC, external etc..)
If ch 3/4 is set up for internal "MIC"'s it is still possible to select phantom power on 3/4.
I assume that is not intentional and does not show on display but is yet selectable in menu INPUT/INPUT GAIN.
I am missing PREREC of at least 5 secs which should be no big deal as any small recorder like M10 has a similar functionality.
it has been decribed before but I also would like to have Monitor to each channel / channelpair.
It looks like my version is very sensitive to switching phantom powered devices which has caused malfunction that needed repowering, but any technician would know that this of course should be done unpowered ::)
Despite of this, this little device behaves like a charm and i have been playing almost glitchless with several different setups and input sofar.
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Welcome to the discussion.
It is interesting and concerning that we have two new posts reporting inaccurate battery metering with the new firmware. So do we have one step forward and one step back with version 1.13? ???
The way the 70d uses batteries, it's helpful to use an external 5v cell phone battery pack like the Ravpower or something like that. Then the 70d will run for hours with no worries.
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Welcome to the discussion.
It is interesting and concerning that we have two new posts reporting inaccurate battery metering with the new firmware. So do we have one step forward and one step back with version 1.13? ???
The way the 70d uses batteries, it's helpful to use an external 5v cell phone battery pack like the Ravpower or something like that. Then the 70d will run for hours with no worries.
I use a powerbank rated 10000mAh so batteries are not a big worry, inside eneloops are used for backup just in case.
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Welcome to the discussion.
It is interesting and concerning that we have two new posts reporting inaccurate battery metering with the new firmware. So do we have one step forward and one step back with version 1.13? ???
The way the 70d uses batteries, it's helpful to use an external 5v cell phone battery pack like the Ravpower or something like that. Then the 70d will run for hours with no worries.
I actually wonder if this is even new behavior, or was an existing problem none of us noticed before because most of us are probably running off external power, especially if you're powering external mics directly. I have only ever had alkalines in my unit, and they are only there as emergency backup so I've never had a chance to check the battery setting before - it's always been set to alkaline, and my external battery is attached to the unit at all times so out of habit I power on the pack even when I'm just messing around with menu settings and not recording.
I'm still on 1.12 so I can try popping in rechargeables and see if the setting doesn't stick with that firmware version also.
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I just recharged my Energizer NiMH and measured all four batteries at 1.40V on a multi-meter (well one battery actually read 1.41V). The battery indicator on the DR-70D is reading full. I have firmware v1.13 installed and confirmed that my battery setting is on NiMH, so as far as I'm concerned the indicator is working fine for NiMH batteries.
Before reaching any firm conclusions about the battery indicator, I'd suggest other users measure the actual voltage and make sure that the indicator reflects accurately what the voltage of the batteries is saying, rather than just assuming that a fresh recharge should result in a full reading. It's possible that your charger isn't taking your Eneloop batteries all the way up to 1.4V each.
Also, I'm not sure any conclusions should be reached that Alkaline and NiMH scales are switched based on just changing the setting between NiMH and Alkaline with Eneloops installed and then observing how the indicator changes. I'd rather see someone measure the voltage from a fresh set of alkalines, then install them with the unit set on 'Alkaline' and correlate the reading to the scale. (1.5V for each battery should equate to full for Alkalines)
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I just recharged my Energizer NiMH and measured all four batteries at 1.40V on a multi-meter (well one battery actually read 1.41V). The battery indicator on the DR-70D is reading full. I have firmware v1.13 installed and confirmed that my battery setting is on NiMH, so as far as I'm concerned the indicator is working fine for NiMH batteries.
Before reaching any firm conclusions about the battery indicator, I'd suggest other users measure the actual voltage and make sure that the indicator reflects accurately what the voltage of the batteries is saying, rather than just assuming that a fresh recharge should result in a full reading. It's possible that your charger isn't taking your Eneloop batteries all the way up to 1.4V each.
Also, I'm not sure any conclusions should be reached that Alkaline and NiMH scales are switched based on just changing the setting between NiMH and Alkaline with Eneloops installed and then observing how the indicator changes. I'd rather see someone measure the voltage from a fresh set of alkalines, then install them with the unit set on 'Alkaline' and correlate the reading to the scale. (1.5V for each battery should equate to full for Alkalines)
Ok i had to reflect a bit more of my conclusions concerning battery dislay, and after a few tests of discharging i am on retrait with battery display as a problem.
My first hasty conclusion was probably based on thinking that Alkaline would always have a larger (measured) voltage during discharge than NimH, but this show not always to be a fact.
If you look at attached picture of a typical discharging of the two types you will see that curves are crossing at maybe 25% of capacity, so before this line, my assumption was ok, but after crossline this is not a valid assumption.
So conclusion is that tascam display is probably ok for the 75% remaining capacity but not of the first 25% (who cares?).
It is probably not a very accurate display anyway, due to the flat discharge curve of NiMh batteries but indicative at least.
I have no experience with other than the latest v1.13 sofar, and i am in no way a battery expert, so take it from there ;D.
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I just recharged my Energizer NiMH and measured all four batteries at 1.40V on a multi-meter (well one battery actually read 1.41V). The battery indicator on the DR-70D is reading full. I have firmware v1.13 installed and confirmed that my battery setting is on NiMH, so as far as I'm concerned the indicator is working fine for NiMH batteries.
Before reaching any firm conclusions about the battery indicator, I'd suggest other users measure the actual voltage and make sure that the indicator reflects accurately what the voltage of the batteries is saying, rather than just assuming that a fresh recharge should result in a full reading. It's possible that your charger isn't taking your Eneloop batteries all the way up to 1.4V each.
Also, I'm not sure any conclusions should be reached that Alkaline and NiMH scales are switched based on just changing the setting between NiMH and Alkaline with Eneloops installed and then observing how the indicator changes. I'd rather see someone measure the voltage from a fresh set of alkalines, then install them with the unit set on 'Alkaline' and correlate the reading to the scale. (1.5V for each battery should equate to full for Alkalines)
Ok i had to reflect a bit more of my conclusions concerning battery dislay, and after a few tests of discharging i am on retrait with battery display as a problem.
My first hasty conclusion was probably based on thinking that Alkaline would always have a larger (measured) voltage during discharge than NimH, but this show not always to be a fact.
If you look at attached picture of a typical discharging of the two types you will see that curves are crossing at maybe 25% of capacity, so before this line, my assumption was ok, but after crossline this is not a valid assumption.
So conclusion is that tascam display is probably ok for the 75% remaining capacity but not of the first 25% (who cares?).
It is probably not a very accurate display anyway, due to the flat discharge curve of NiMh batteries but indicative at least.
I have no experience with other than the latest v1.13 sofar, and i am in no way a battery expert, so take it from there ;D.
When using NiMH rechargeables, it's good to know the shape of the discharge curve. Since the center part of the discharge curve is flat, the display will go from full to half quite fast. Then the display stays on half for a long time. Once the batteries start to expire, the final bars go from half to empty quite fast.
I've been caught offguard before because I will look at the display and it will still show the batteries are at half, then ten minutes later my device is dead. Because of that, I like to conduct run time tests on my equipment so I have a better idea of exactly how long the device runs. It removes the guessing about when the batteries will run out, so that I can change them if necessary at a convenient time, such as between songs or during setbreak or whatever.
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I just recharged my Energizer NiMH and measured all four batteries at 1.40V on a multi-meter (well one battery actually read 1.41V). The battery indicator on the DR-70D is reading full. I have firmware v1.13 installed and confirmed that my battery setting is on NiMH, so as far as I'm concerned the indicator is working fine for NiMH batteries.
Before reaching any firm conclusions about the battery indicator, I'd suggest other users measure the actual voltage and make sure that the indicator reflects accurately what the voltage of the batteries is saying, rather than just assuming that a fresh recharge should result in a full reading. It's possible that your charger isn't taking your Eneloop batteries all the way up to 1.4V each.
Also, I'm not sure any conclusions should be reached that Alkaline and NiMH scales are switched based on just changing the setting between NiMH and Alkaline with Eneloops installed and then observing how the indicator changes. I'd rather see someone measure the voltage from a fresh set of alkalines, then install them with the unit set on 'Alkaline' and correlate the reading to the scale. (1.5V for each battery should equate to full for Alkalines)
Ok i had to reflect a bit more of my conclusions concerning battery dislay, and after a few tests of discharging i am on retrait with battery display as a problem.
My first hasty conclusion was probably based on thinking that Alkaline would always have a larger (measured) voltage during discharge than NimH, but this show not always to be a fact.
If you look at attached picture of a typical discharging of the two types you will see that curves are crossing at maybe 25% of capacity, so before this line, my assumption was ok, but after crossline this is not a valid assumption.
So conclusion is that tascam display is probably ok for the 75% remaining capacity but not of the first 25% (who cares?).
It is probably not a very accurate display anyway, due to the flat discharge curve of NiMh batteries but indicative at least.
I have no experience with other than the latest v1.13 sofar, and i am in no way a battery expert, so take it from there ;D.
When using NiMH rechargeables, it's good to know the shape of the discharge curve. Since the center part of the discharge curve is flat, the display will go from full to half quite fast. Then the display stays on half for a long time. Once the batteries start to expire, the final bars go from half to empty quite fast.
I've been caught offguard before because I will look at the display and it will still show the batteries are at half, then ten minutes later my device is dead. Because of that, I like to conduct run time tests on my equipment so I have a better idea of exactly how long the device runs. It removes the guessing about when the batteries will run out, so that I can change them if necessary at a convenient time, such as between songs or during setbreak or whatever.
I agree that battery display cannot be used for production time validation, but can only be used as an indication of disaster ahead.
Using external power is even worse. My connected USB powerbank has only 4 LED's to show status so you really need to know your runtime here, but it seems to switch glitchless with internal batteries.
Thankyou for your feedback.
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Hi all,
estimating state of charge from a simple voltage measurement is close to impossible. There are too many variables: temperature, load current, and internal resistance to name a few. In the "good old days", tape decks had VU meters. Battery powered ones had a button to switch one of them to a battery meter - not with a voltage scale, but with a sector telling you full or empty - my Marantz CP430 did this. My Sony WM-D6C had four LEDs to show me battery voltage or level. You had to learn to understand what your recorder wanted to tell you - this has not changed in the last 30 or so years 8)
Another point to keep in mind is that current consumption of modern recording devices is not constant over changing supply voltage! Back then only a few parts of a tape deck were supplied with a stabilised voltage - the capstan motor, maybe the bias oscillator or sensitive preamps. The rest was simply powered off the batteries - mostly C or D cells (my marantz used three of the latter). So current drain dropped with dropping voltage.
Not so nowadays: our portable computers we call "decks" or "recorders" often use an elaborate array of high-efficiency switchmode converters to power the different subcircuits. The interesting part is that a DC/DC converter has the astonishing property to present the battery with a partially NEGATIVE input resistance! In simple terms: since the converter tries to keep the input power constant, current rises when voltage drops. I will give you an example:
Assume a recorder with four phantom powered mics, drawing about 3W of power overall. A good, modern, power supply of the switching type has an efficiency of 90%, so the battery has to deliver 3W/0.9 = 3.333W. Battery type is a Lithium polymer cell with 3.7V nominal, voltage goes from 4.2V (full) to 3.2V (empty). Now we can calculate current drawn from the cell:
4.2V: 0.79A
4.0V: 0.83A
3.8V: 0.88A
3.6V: 0.93A
3.4V: 0.98A
3.2V: 1.04A
Those numbers are also valid for the typical USB power bank.
Problem: the internal resistance of most electrochemical systems rises when they get discharged. There is a tipping point when the battery simply cannot sustain the ever rising current demand of the converter - the problem tonedeaf described.
My advice: keep backup batteries handy, use external power (power banks with as much capacity as possible), check your rechargeables often (there are chargers that can check capacity - since they discharge to a certain switchoff voltage, high internal resistance also shows as low capacity). Keep battery contacts clean, wipe with denatured alcohol: this keeps contact resistance and power loss down. If you record outdoors in cold climate: keep your rechargeables warm - put them in your pocket.
Greetings,
Rainer
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I decided to do two test runs with alkalines and NiMH to see how they perform while recording. 48k, 24bit bwf.
I ran all channels and used internal mics to capture basically silent sound in the room and left it recording while bagged.
When I came back after 50 minutes all meters hit 0db and all Peak LED flashed.
I powered it down and up again but still it peaked masivly and the meters was not that responsive to my turing them to zero.
The battery meter looks like a rolling led which goes from zero to half and back again.
I began recording again, halted, started, pressed slate and stoped.
Powered it down and reviewed the tracks.
After 7 minutes of recordings a peaked LF pulse began to emerge. It picked up pace and kept on for the remaining 40 minutes.
The unit was warm, the alkaline batteries reached almost 48C.
Attached is a clip from after I powered the unit down and up again.
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While writing this I did a new test.
No bag, only chan 3/4 built in mics but same 48/24 bwf.
Now it's even worse. After 10 minutes same behaviour, channel 3/4 peaks constantly, ch 1/2 which was not used blinks every once in a while.
This time I can not even turn the unit off with the power/hold slider...
Have to remove the batteries.
I guess I have a lemon unit :/
Time to ship it back.
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If you are still in the return period, I wouldn't take any chances.
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I decided to do two test runs with alkalines and NiMH to see how they perform while recording. 48k, 24bit bwf.
I ran all channels and used internal mics to capture basically silent sound in the room and left it recording while bagged.
When I came back after 50 minutes all meters hit 0db and all Peak LED flashed.
I powered it down and up again but still it peaked masivly and the meters was not that responsive to my turing them to zero.
The battery meter looks like a rolling led which goes from zero to half and back again.
I began recording again, halted, started, pressed slate and stoped.
Powered it down and reviewed the tracks.
After 7 minutes of recordings a peaked LF pulse began to emerge. It picked up pace and kept on for the remaining 40 minutes.
The unit was warm, the alkaline batteries reached almost 48C.
Attached is a clip from after I powered the unit down and up again.
-----------
While writing this I did a new test.
No bag, only chan 3/4 built in mics but same 48/24 bwf.
Now it's even worse. After 10 minutes same behaviour, channel 3/4 peaks constantly, ch 1/2 which was not used blinks every once in a while.
This time I can not even turn the unit off with the power/hold slider...
Have to remove the batteries.
I guess I have a lemon unit :/
Time to ship it back.
sorry to hear about your problems with unit.
What do you mean by "bagged"?
Could it somehow have been internally overheated by this operation?
Did you try other batteries but alkaline after this?
I think i had one incident during testing where i had to take out the batteries to power down after lock up, but i cannot remember circumstances for this
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In the first use I had it running in a porta brace powered by alkalines.
It then began behaving weird after 7-8 minutes.
During the second test it ran without bag out in the opening, on fully charged eneloops.
It took about 10 minutes before it went haywire and did not allowed me to power it down.
I can't really see how it would have began to overheat after only 7 minutes in a bag.
Anyway, I've emailed the dealership and will post on how everything plays out.
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Overheating is not something that has come up before. I doubt the bag had any effect.
If there was a fault in the battery or the battery was inserted the wrong way, that could cause it to overheat. Not saying this caused it--only that it could cause it. You might try putting a voltmeter to each battery.
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You may try to run it by USB power to see if that is different from battery power, just to narrow the problem somehow.
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You may try to run it by USB power to see if that is different from battery power, just to narrow the problem somehow.
Great idea. Will try that tonight.
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You may try to run it by USB power to see if that is different from battery power, just to narrow the problem somehow.
I hooked up the DR70 to one of my external 5V USB power packs.
Connected a AT4041 to input 3 and powered up the unit.
Formatted the card and began setting up phantom power and input settings and levels.
After less then 5 minutes every peak LED began to flash and all meters went through the roof as before.
Atleast I was able to power it down correctly this time.
I cant think of anything other then that the unit is totally faulty.
Still waiting to hear back form the dealer. Sent them another ail today.
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That is really bad news.
It certainly sounds like a bad unit , input amplifiers going nuts or whatever, i have no clue to make this one behave
so best thing is probably to go for a replacement.
A bit strange that it is working for 5 mins (recording?), but that could be a heating matter, have you tried with another card?
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In the previous tests I did record.
This time, I never got around to press Rec. It was in standby all the time.
All I did was to jump around in the settings and adjusting levels etc.
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The PNY Elite cards work in the DR70d!! I have used mine without issue. There have been zero reports of errors with these cards.
I'm #3. I have a brand new unit that I have not used yet. I am almost afraid to update the firmware. I ordered a PNY elite card and I will go from there once it comes.
wild man. Ordering a card that's not on the list... WHY???
I have [1] 32gb PNY Elite and [1] 64gb PNY Elite, and they have been rock solid so far! I'll most def grab [1] 128gb PNY Elite before summer time, but I'll def test it before I use it :) I'm glad to hear that the 70D horror stories have been few/far between lately ;D
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I could list a ton of successful shows with my 70D. Dome Fest 2015/Mad Tea 2015/Summerdance 2015, plus all of the single shows Ive done since getting my 70D in April/2015 :) I have ONLY had ONE bad session, back in June@Mad Tea, on an untested microSDHC card[16gb Sandisk].
But since using my 32gb/64gb PNY Elite SD cards, I have had ZERO problems ;) Using every firmware since the original. I just taped on 12.18.2015 @24/96 w 4 channels[2 channels PHANTOM] and no problems. And again on 12.30.2015 @24/96 w 4 channels[2 channels PHANTOM] and again with no issues. I have since upgraded to firmware v1.13 since then and I hope it works as well as v1.12 did on my 70D :)
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Here's a pretty nifty bag specially designed for the DR70D, if anyone's interested. Check out the demo video.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1200016-REG/k_tek_kstg70_stingray_bag_for.html
That's a nice bag +T. If mine weren't so nicely encased in my new SOG Tactical 6 bag, I would grab one of those instantly. K-Tek makes great quality stuff IMO :)
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Had the same experience with my new DR70, after installation of fresh ENELOOP PRO 2500mA and updated to ver 1.13.
Sofar it looks like I have a stable recorder (8Gb card) but my battery indicator seam to behave badly and it certainly looks like Alkaline/NiMh selector has been switched or algoritme is weak. most of the time it shows 50% left.
I have another peculiar thing that does no harm but is yet annoying in menues.
I do not like that the phrase "MIC" is used for diferent things in menues, it should be distinguissed where needed (internal MIC, external etc..)
If ch 3/4 is set up for internal "MIC"'s it is still possible to select phantom power on 3/4.
I assume that is not intentional and does not show on display but is yet selectable in menu INPUT/INPUT GAIN.
I am missing PREREC of at least 5 secs which should be no big deal as any small recorder like M10 has a similar functionality.
it has been decribed before but I also would like to have Monitor to each channel / channelpair.
It looks like my version is very sensitive to switching phantom powered devices which has caused malfunction that needed repowering, but any technician would know that this of course should be done unpowered ::)
Despite of this, this little device behaves like a charm and i have been playing almost glitchless with several different setups and input sofar.
IMO, you NEED a bigger USB battery for any real runtimes on your 70D ;) I have [6] 10,000mah USB batteries that I use for my 70D. USB batteries can be easily and cheaply found abiout anywhere now, so this is a big plus for the 70D IMO 8) I get ABOUT 1hr/1,000mah, so about 10 hours with a 10,000mah USB battery. Thats running 4 channels@24/96, with 2 channels on PHANTOM.
Unfortunately, its not possible to monitor each channel on its own :( That is now a function of the 701-D, but not the 70D :( So I honestly think we'll NEVER see a fix on the monitor situation of the 70D. They have taken some things that we wanted to see on the 70D in firmware upgrades, and made them standard functions on the 701-D, so either upgrade to the 701-D, or do without most of those things :P ;D
Frankly, I do no kind of video recording, and the regular 70D does EXACTLY what I need it to do, when I'm just recording audio. So while the 701-D is new and pretty and has things we desired for our 70D's, I have ZERO reasons to upgrade to the 701-D!!! The 70D menu isn't cluttered with a million settings like most 4 channel decks, and its pretty bare-bones, but that's what I love about it. Just set your basic settings and BAM, you're ready to go :) Now if Tascam really fixed the "Write Timeout" errors, then I think this recorder has the potential to really blow up, but ONLY after Tascam addresses the WT errors and makes it as reliable for EVERYONE, as it has been for me the last 9 months :)
Hopefully v1.13 firmware is the savior that we have all been waiting for, and I'm VERY curious to read this thread in the coming weeks/months, to see if the Write Timeout error has truly been fixed!!
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I have [1] 32gb PNY Elite and [1] 64gb PNY Elite, and they have been rock solid so far! I'll most def grab [1] 128gb PNY Elite before summer time, but I'll def test it before I use it :)
Good luck!
:facepalm:
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If mine weren't so nicely encased in my new SOG Tactical 6 bag, I would grab one of those instantly. K-Tek makes great quality stuff IMO :)
Would you mind posting a picture of your 70D in that bag? I'm looking to upgrade to a larger bag, and haven't found one I like yet. I'm not a fan of all of the "sound guy" type bags with the clear flap since you can't totally enclose them.
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Activity seems low on this thread, does that mean that all problems with DR70d including "Write Timeout" errors has been solved with v1.13 upgrade or has noone tested it with "bad" cards yet?
Did anyone that made the upgrade with input amplifiers make some measurements to the recorder output before and after changes saying that internal noise has improved or maybe not measurable?
DR701d seems to have different input amplifiers but maybe quality is related to discrete (HDDA) input components?
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Activity seems low on this thread, does that mean that all problems with DR70d including "Write Timeout" errors has been solved with v1.13 upgrade or has noone tested it with "bad" cards yet?
Did anyone that made the upgrade with input amplifiers make some measurements to the recorder output before and after changes saying that internal noise has improved or maybe not measurable?
DR701d seems to have different input amplifiers but maybe quality is related to discrete (HDDA) input components?
No - it took almost 10 months a 50 sets before I started having issues...maybe this time next year...
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The details of the performance of the mod are discussed here: http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=174046.0
Generally, I believe the mod made a subtle improvement if you listen carefully to the piano notes before/after the mod. It's not a light and day difference, but I hear a subtle improvement, IMO.
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I think my little piano demo is a little hard to hear the differences because of the background noise of my apartment. What I have found over using my modified deck over the long term is that while the self-noise didn't really change audibly, the quality of the treble range improved significantly as did clarity overall. I'm not sure how much if at all you'd hear this with an amplified rock show, but I hear it in all of the choral recordings I do. When my 70D was stock, I would absolutely prefer my FP24 > M10 chain. Now, straight into the modded 70D wins.
I hate to use a silly audiophile trope, but the difference in my recordings before and after the mod remind me a bit of the "veil being lifted." ::) In all seriousness, it's sort of like with and without heavy wind screens on the mics.
The specs on the opamps used in the 701D are close to those used in the JW mod. Whether those opamp specs or the added caps amount to anything was the subject of much discussion in the mod thread linked above if you're curious.
Bottom line for me, I'm happy to have gotten the mod and the improvement makes it the best recording chain I own for the music I record. As always, YMMV.
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I did try to find some of the related files to the mod, but none of the files seems to be present at dropbox so i cannot listen to examples.
i am not convinced that it would be worth the effort for me, but congratulations for those that did find some gain doing this.
i was maybe looking for some noise improvements as this is indicated in specs for DR70 compared to DR701 as DR701 seems to have slightly lower noise floor of -124dBu compared to -120dBu of DR70.
However it also looks as DR701 has better audio performance with better linearity and lower distortion, but whether this is obtained by better input amps is not obvious.
The noise floor of DR70d is not really a problem unless you go for low sens or low noise mics in low level recordings like ambience nature recordings with NT1A's or similar but at that point it is a matter of recording silence or very low sound levels and for this DR70 is maybe not the optimum choice.
If you clamp input amps with impedances of app 150ohms and listen to the output at max gain , noise is audible but in most cases superseeded by noisy mics or head phone amps as in real life.
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I did try to find some of the related files to the mod, but none of the files seems to be present at dropbox so i cannot listen to examples.
i am not convinced that it would be worth the effort for me, but congratulations for those that did find some gain doing this.
i was maybe looking for some noise improvements as this is indicated in specs for DR70 compared to DR701 as DR701 seems to have slightly lower noise floor of -124dBu compared to -120dBu of DR70.
However it also looks as DR701 has better audio performance with better linearity and lower distortion, but whether this is obtained by better input amps is not obvious.
The noise floor of DR70d is not really a problem unless you go for low sens or low noise mics in low level recordings like ambience nature recordings with NT1A's or similar but at that point it is a matter of recording silence or very low sound levels and for this DR70 is maybe not the optimum choice.
If you clamp input amps with impedances of app 150ohms and listen to the output at max gain , noise is audible but in most cases superseeded by noisy mics or head phone amps as in real life.
Mod Thread Here...
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=174046.0
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The 701d is $599 vs $249 for the 70d at list price. The 70d was as low as $180 last year.
Note that there is no list of approved media for the 702d currently. Who is to say 701d owners may experience what some TS members experienced with glitches and then Tascam released a list of approved media and later revised firmware. IMO, I would not be an early adopter of a 701d at $599.
As for the mod, I don't think you'd notice if you are recording rock n roll in a bar, but you might very well notice if you were recording a choir with piano.
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I did try to find some of the related files to the mod, but none of the files seems to be present at dropbox so i cannot listen to examples.
i am not convinced that it would be worth the effort for me, but congratulations for those that did find some gain doing this.
i was maybe looking for some noise improvements as this is indicated in specs for DR70 compared to DR701 as DR701 seems to have slightly lower noise floor of -124dBu compared to -120dBu of DR70.
However it also looks as DR701 has better audio performance with better linearity and lower distortion, but whether this is obtained by better input amps is not obvious.
The noise floor of DR70d is not really a problem unless you go for low sens or low noise mics in low level recordings like ambience nature recordings with NT1A's or similar but at that point it is a matter of recording silence or very low sound levels and for this DR70 is maybe not the optimum choice.
If you clamp input amps with impedances of app 150ohms and listen to the output at max gain , noise is audible but in most cases superseeded by noisy mics or head phone amps as in real life.
Mod Thread Here...
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=174046.0
Yes i know as referenced above, but the referenced links at dropbox are reported missing (empty) at my PC, so no recordings found available, could be a local problem with dropbox?
2manyrocks:
I have no ambitions for a 701d, just curious on the difference to 70d if some crazy idea should appear :-D
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They're no longer in my Dropbox, I had to make room for other things and deleted them a while ago. I can post them again when I'm back at my computer but like I said it's a very flawed comparison.
While it's not a comp, here is the best recording I've made thus far with my modded 70D:
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=176244.msg2175055#msg2175055 (http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=176244.msg2175055#msg2175055)
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Files re-uploaded and dropbox link fixed in the mod thread:
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=174046.msg2152868 (http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=174046.msg2152868)
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Files re-uploaded and dropbox link fixed in the mod thread:
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=174046.msg2152868 (http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=174046.msg2152868)
Thankyou for the opportunity to listen to your recordings of this setup.
I tried to listen to the "raw" files numerous times but maybe I am not experienced for this. i did not succeed to distinguish the two recordings and in a blindtest i would certainly fail.
However this does not mean that a difference does not exist just that i personally am not able to recognize it in conditions met.
Having the two recordings loaded to audition i find the spectrum scanned incredible equal for both recordings except from peaks mentioned at 21.7khz and a minor difference of playing probably in area from 7-10khz, but noise and general impression are incredible equal spectrum wise.
But most important is that you are happy with your mod :-).
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Files re-uploaded and dropbox link fixed in the mod thread:
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=174046.msg2152868 (http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=174046.msg2152868)
Thankyou for the opportunity to listen to your recordings of this setup.
I tried to listen to the "raw" files numerous times but maybe I am not experienced for this. i did not succeed to distinguish the two recordings and in a blindtest i would certainly fail.
However this does not mean that a difference does not exist just that i personally am not able to recognize it in conditions met.
Having the two recordings loaded to audition i find the spectrum scanned incredible equal for both recordings except from peaks mentioned at 21.7khz and a minor difference of playing probably in area from 7-10khz, but noise and general impression are incredible equal spectrum wise.
But most important is that you are happy with your mod :-).
Not surprised - like I said multiple times already, it's not a good comparison and I would fail a blind test also if this were the recording being tested - so many variables it's completely invalid; I was just putting the files back because you wanted to hear them. I've found the improvement with the mod more revealing in live choral / instrumental acoustic recording such as in the other thread I linked above.
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I have been tampering a bit with DR70d to get an understanding of the performance of this recorder, but i get stuck with some basic understanding af level definitions (dBu)
I made some basic measurement of selfnoise for the recorder and some of my mics attached that looked ok to me.
however i tried to compare results with the same setup on another recorder (SD702) which basically should have better figures, that did also work ok.
My problem showed when i tried to compare results in Audition to get an idea of how far DR70 is from SD702.
i could not get a valid result to trust as DR70 came out far worse than I expected and with some gain indications that did not look reliable.
If DR70 is set to max gain ir should be app 63dB and doing the same with SD702 it should be app 67 dB which is a difference of app 4 dB that could be corrected for.
i tested different capsules DPA/B&K but somehow I could not get the figures to match as i had a difference of app 10dB on result.
Is it possible to compare recorders with same gain and setup and VU set for dBu (I suppose) or is this not to expected being a valid measurement?
With same gain and same transducer should it be possible to have app the same result in figures to be displayed or have i interpreted this wrong.
I load the 2 files recorded in both recorders into audition and make a visual compare that does not look reliable (to me).
What am i doing wrong?
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Others will be much better equipped than I to explain how to do a proper test. What I can say for sure is that is that the HIGH+ setting on this unit is so noisy it's almost useless. Jim Williams told me that it's the input transformers which are to blame for the high noise at high gain. The other 3 gain ranges are plenty quiet enough to use though. I never really go beyond the MID setting.
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I do not think this unit has any "input transformer" to my knowledge, that was in the good old days with dynamic microphones.
Dr 70 has an equivalent input noise of -120dbU specified which should leave plenty of room for a god microphone.
The problem is that most condens microphones has a fairly high selfnoise that is amplified with the signal and that sounds horribly of course but that can only be better with a less noisy microphone.
if you have a less noisy microphone you will get closer to the limit of input amplifier noise of course but that is part of the game, but for most users i think the microphone is the big pronlem and typically these are low ouput mics so S/N is the limit here. so the best mic for DR70 is low noise high output which then may become a problem at high sound levels :-(.
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I do not think this unit has any "input transformer" to my knowledge, that was in the good old days with dynamic microphones.
Dr 70 has an equivalent input noise of -120dbU specified which should leave plenty of room for a god microphone.
The problem is that most condens microphones has a fairly high selfnoise that is amplified with the signal and that sounds horribly of course but that can only be better with a less noisy microphone.
if you have a less noisy microphone you will get closer to the limit of input amplifier noise of course but that is part of the game, but for most users i think the microphone is the big pronlem and typically these are low ouput mics so S/N is the limit here. so the best mic for DR70 is low noise high output which then may become a problem at high sound levels :-(.
One further test.
I put the Tascam into LOW gain at MAX (+21dB)
I entered +21dB as gain with SD702.
Then i made a reference input (exciter) into the microphone input ch1 at ref level of 94dB (1kHz) at a sensitivity of 44mV.
Tascam now shows -5dB dBu at LCD
SD702 shows -24-26 dBFS (-4-6dBu?) at VU meter LED
I stored the 2 files and loaded into Audition.
File from Tascam shows a 1 kHz level at -5.4dB
File from SD702 shows a 1 kHz level at -22.8dB
Apparently SD702 have a preference of dBFS and Tascam dBu and the difference is probably supposed to be 20dB maybe because of an inaccurate gainsetting.
I would prefer that they both showed the same (-5.4dB) but how can i accomplish that?
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I do not think this unit has any "input transformer" to my knowledge, that was in the good old days with dynamic microphones.
I haven't ever cracked open my 70D, but Jim Williams, who designs mic preamps and other audio equipment has, and if he says they have input transformers I'm inclined to believe him. Hopefully someone else here will be able to chime in on how common (or not) input transformers are on these types of recorders.
I know for a fact that my 2006-built FP24 (AKA SD MixPre) has input transformers, as does the currently-produced MixPre-D and the 633 (says so right in their manuals). The SD 664, 688, and the entire 7-series recorders do not, however - they are "active balanced".
Here's some info explaining the two from Sound Devices:
http://www.sounddevices.com/tech-notes/output-balancing-topologies (http://www.sounddevices.com/tech-notes/output-balancing-topologies)
The link to the Jensen article linked there was broken, so I found it here. I realize this is from a leading transformer manufacturer so the fact that they call a transformer-balanced input the "best" way may be a bit biased but the explanation between the different implementations is presented in a nice, clear way.
http://www.jhbrandt.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/Interconnection_of_Balanced_and-Unbalanced-Equipment.pdf (http://www.jhbrandt.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/Interconnection_of_Balanced_and-Unbalanced-Equipment.pdf)
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I am not going to open my DR70 to find any input transformer so if you have information that say so, that is how it is, but i have not seen that mentioned anywhere. Tascam use more energy to state that input amps are 5532 :-). Both could be true.
Anyone here that has a clue why i have to fight dbFS/dBu implementations to have my test between Tascam/SD verified above?
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Decibels are ratios, so that they are always with respect to some reference value. dBu is with respect to 0.775 V and dBV to 1 V, so they are independent of the gear. For dBFS, the reference is the maximum signal that won't lead to digital clipping, so it varies depending on the recorder. Not sure if that's helpful?
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Decibels are ratios, so that they are always with respect to some reference value. dBu is with respect to 0.775 V and dBV to 1 V, so they are independent of the gear. For dBFS, the reference is the maximum signal that won't lead to digital clipping, so it varies depending on the recorder. Not sure if that's helpful?
Thankyou aronji.
I am slowly moving to some fundamental understanding.
What really annoys me is that my documentation with stored files is different and dependant on which recorder used. For the same signal i have a difference recorded of 17.5 dB for these two recorders, it could look like the 12dB mentioned in article below due to the relation between dBu/dBFS. My brain says that stored files should be the same if same gainsettings are used with same mic. Anyone agrre on this?
i read this and maybe that gets near for some sort of understanding but is not suggesting a solution. do I really need to adjust all my files recorded for this dependency?
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/may00/articles/digital.htm (http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/may00/articles/digital.htm)
Is it correct to say that tascam display could be showing DBu or dBFS, in this case the same where SD has a dBFS LED display where 0 dBu is the same as -20dBFS?
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There was a post somewhere back in the thread of a 70d vs 702 comp, but there wasn't much discussion about how it was done.
One huge difference between the 702 vs the 70d is the 702 metering. The 702 has a long and very visible metering scale which is invaluable when it comes to setting recording levels.
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To my ears, the 70D does not have transformers. Weight of unit suggests to me that there are no transformers. Cost of unit suggests to me that there are no transformers.
So, IMO..... there is nothing that suggests that there are transformers.
But JW is a tech guru..... so if he claims that there are tranny's, it's hard to disagree...... but I'm trying. ;)
I'm just a yahoo with aging ears, aging muscles, and a tight wallet. :P
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They could be very small? I don't think it would be anything hefty made my Lundahl or Jensen like you find in pro gear. I might post the question on GS, and either Jim or a couple other engineers may chime in.
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OK, I'm a dope. What Jim actually said (https://www.gearslutz.com/board/remote-possibilities-acoustic-music-location-recording/722756-portable-recorder-low-noise-floor.html#post11321104), speaking in reference to his modification:
Noise is dominated by the input transistor pair at higher gains so the opamp noise is washed out. At lower gains the opamp noise dominates and it's very quiet now. The sonics are also far better with the added slew rates and decreased THD. I also added tiny NOS Wima polyprop film bypass caps to the phantom blocking caps, another large improvement. The transients are now excellent when they were damped stock.
:facepalm:
Also, speaking about the recorder in general (https://www.gearslutz.com/board/remote-possibilities-acoustic-music-location-recording/960891-new-very-compact-4ch-recorder-tascam-2.html#post11152552):
They use a set of SOT-23 input transistors as used in many mic preamps. Those dominate the noise floor at the High+ settings. If you stick with the High gain and use high output condenser mics, it is silent. Several have had those opamps replaced, all heard the improvements.
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So, is this latest firmware stable enough to move to?
I've been running the OE stock firmware (1.00 0037) that came with mine since I got it, being a bit nervous to move away from something that didn't give me any grief out of the box.
thanks
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For the same signal i have a difference recorded of 17.5 dB for these two recorders, it could look like the 12dB mentioned in article below due to the relation between dBu/dBFS. My brain says that stored files should be the same if same gainsettings are used with same mic. Anyone agrre on this?
That's the thing I was getting at earlier: there is no fixed relationship between dBu and dBFS, unlike dBu and dBV (dBu - 2.22 = dBV). dBFS will vary from recorder to recorder. The maximum mic input for the 702 is spec'ed at 10 dBu and for the 70D at 0 dBu, so, ostensibly, that should translate into a 10 dB difference in dBFS right there (I say ostensibly because the relationship between the maximum input and 0 dBFS isn't always as straightforward as you might expect). There are very probably other differences in how the two recorders handle an incoming signal of a given voltage, as well.
Now that you have an idea about how the two compare, why not just adjust the gain settings prior to, or after, recording to account for the difference?
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Updated mine and have not had an issue
So, is this latest firmware stable enough to move to?
I've been running the OE stock firmware (1.00 0037) that came with mine since I got it, being a bit nervous to move away from something that didn't give me any grief out of the box.
thanks
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For the same signal i have a difference recorded of 17.5 dB for these two recorders, it could look like the 12dB mentioned in article below due to the relation between dBu/dBFS. My brain says that stored files should be the same if same gainsettings are used with same mic. Anyone agrre on this?
That's the thing I was getting at earlier: there is no fixed relationship between dBu and dBFS, unlike dBu and dBV (dBu - 2.22 = dBV). dBFS will vary from recorder to recorder. The maximum mic input for the 702 is spec'ed at 10 dBu and for the 70D at 0 dBu, so, ostensibly, that should translate into a 10 dB difference in dBFS right there (I say ostensibly because the relationship between the maximum input and 0 dBFS isn't always as straightforward as you might expect). There are very probably other differences in how the two recorders handle an incoming signal of a given voltage, as well.
Now that you have an idea about how the two compare, why not just adjust the gain settings prior to, or after, recording to account for the difference?
Thankyou Aroonji for taking your time on this.
The reason it is aproblem for me is of course that I use recorder for something it was not intended for.
Let me give you an example:
I want to verify selfnoise for the recorder and for my capsules. For the capsules I could use an amplifier and a voltmeter, but for the recorder it is abit more complicated as you have no access internal to analog amplifiers but have to rely on internal digital processing.
With Tascam I have a display calibrated to dBu where max display is 0 dBu which is also the clipping level an therefore no over head is built in (as far as I know).
With Sd it is now clear that display is calibrated to dBFS where 0dBFS is dBU + 20dB or 0 dBu is equal to -20dBFS.
If you use recorder in a normal way you may set your amplifiers to show signal at let us say -16dB, that would be -16dBu with Tascam but with SD it would be -16dBFS which is not the same (+20dB) as Tascam.
If you record a file and on both and take the file into Audition or similar you would see that files are identical despite that they were recorded with different gain settings. This has now been verified by SD support that this is how Sd is calibrated.
My problem is that I use recorders to measure abolute (noise levels or signal) and get wrong results at verification because the dB's in audition are not the same as the the numbers stored in SD file (relative values).
I make a setup where a signal (or noise) is introduced to input amplifier at both items. I try to set same amplification 63dB (max) on Tascam and 63dB on SD. i would then expect the same output on both amplifiers before digitized.
If this signal was -63dbU Tascam would show max display and be near clipping but SD is showing -20dBFS (0dBu) which is ok sofar.
Problem for me is that the stored digitization is not calibrated to dBu but dBFS so when i compare the two files in audition, the file from SD is 20dB lower than Tascam file (same gain settings). i could of course compensate for this by adding 20dB amplification, but it is a bit worrying when small signals are used and whether you can trust the digital representation without degradation.
This has also ben verified by SD support to be correct, so that is how it is, but not very user friendly.
This confused me first because the selfnoise seemed to be far better with Sd than Tascam (could be), but when compensated for by 20db, suddenly Tascam seems to be very close to performance of SDxxx if measurement is considered reliable .
The first file attached is a screenshot from AUDITION showing Tascam 70d selfnoise (equivalent input noise) with input shuntet by 150 ohm resistance (resistor equ noise is 0,22uV/-130dbU) and max gain of 63 db which can be subtracted from measured value on output. Doing the same with SD would show a spectrum that is 20dB too low (absolute values) which should be compensated by 20db for comparing.
Second file attached is a screeshot showing spectrum from recorder noise measurement, red is Tascam and blue is SD702. Sd spectrum was compensated for as explained above.
If this measurement is considered reliable which I claim sofar, you may be surprised that Tascam has lower levels of noise at low frequency than SD from input amplifiers but overall is slightly worse but not that bad. (Input is 150 ohm resistor + 10uF) Interesting?
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CORRECT!
To my ears, the 70D does not have transformers. Weight of unit suggests to me that there are no transformers. Cost of unit suggests to me that there are no transformers.
So, IMO..... there is nothing that suggests that there are transformers.
But JW is a tech guru..... so if he claims that there are tranny's, it's hard to disagree...... but I'm trying. ;)
I'm just a yahoo with aging ears, aging muscles, and a tight wallet. :P
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See reply 189. I already said I got it wrong, and Jim was talking about input transistors.
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Most of Tascam high end audio products claim they use Tascam HDDA input amplifier tecnique and 5532 amplifiers (except Dr701)).
I have not seen any diagrams but to me it is interpreted as Tascam input amplifiers has a discrete transistor input stage combined with 5532 opamps which together set input noise levels obtained.
That may explain why it did not change a lot to switch 5532 amplifiers with even less noisy amplifiers as discrete components are still a major part of noise levels.
Anyway I would personally not really care of the present noise as that is hardly the limit for most users compared to microphones used generally.
However i have seen in other forums that people struggle with camera/line out especially camera out which seems to have severe noise problems due to some design flaw with output amplifiers.
Most users referred with this problem has solved this S/N problem by neglecting camera out (which should have been an attenuated line signal) but using the line out signal and purchase a cable with builtin attenuator (25dB in this case).
Camera out was probably intended to be used with DLSR cameraes which have a microphone input with high sensitivity so lineout needs to be attenuated to fit this input signal level.
By using the line out with proper gain settingsfor this it seems to be working but using cameraout it seems to be a degraded lineout signal with lower S/N level that is not of decent quality. That is a pity :-(.
Does anyone in here have any experience on this problem with Tascam line out versus camera out settings and how it could be related to lineout gain settings eventually and why it is better to use an attenuator cable instead of internal gain setting? Again this could be a design flaw similar to camera out.
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Most of Tascam high end audio products claim they use Tascam HDDA input amplifier tecnique and 5532 amplifiers (except Dr701)).
I have not seen any diagrams but to me it is interpreted as Tascam input amplifiers has a discrete transistor input stage combined with 5532 opamps which together set input noise levels obtained.
That may explain why it did not change a lot to switch 5532 amplifiers with even less noisy amplifiers as discrete components are still a major part of noise levels.
Anyway I would personally not really care of the present noise as that is hardly the limit for most users compared to microphones used generally.
However i have seen in other forums that people struggle with camera/line out especially camera out which seems to have severe noise problems due to some design flaw with output amplifiers.
Most users referred with this problem has solved this S/N problem by neglecting camera out (which should have been an attenuated line signal) but using the line out signal and purchase a cable with builtin attenuator (25dB in this case).
Camera out was probably intended to be used with DLSR cameraes which have a microphone input with high sensitivity so lineout needs to be attenuated to fit this input signal level.
By using the line out with proper gain settingsfor this it seems to be working but using cameraout it seems to be a degraded lineout signal with lower S/N level that is not of decent quality. That is a pity :-(.
Does anyone in here have any experience on this problem with Tascam line out versus camera out settings and how it could be related to lineout gain settings eventually and why it is better to use an attenuator cable instead of internal gain setting? Again this could be a design flaw similar to camera out.
Well...
I made a few measurements with the DR70 line out, and guess what: I did not recognize the problem that a lot of other people have met when using the lineout signals and found too much hiss with camera out.
Are there any information that the latest version 1.13 should have removed this hiss problem or are we up against some basic operator problems here incl me?
Basic is that hiss should be measureable like any other signal.
Difference of line out and camera out is a level difference of 30db (camera out is line out -30db)
so i made a test of measuring noise at line and camera out and it shows a difference of 30dB as stated and no more or less noise at camera out.
a simple setting is that at monitor you may set lineout to -18dB and camera out to +12 dB and voila you get the same volume output at line/camera out. (measuring AC at output)
So how can this be explained.
Does this problem not exist other than people abusing level settings when connected to DSLR's and similar or am i missing something.
Why would people go out paying for expensive cabling (attenuators) to solve a problem that may not exist?
I just cannot see it, sorry.
This is one of the forums that claim this to be a problem and some reports here say that problem is present at least with ver 1.12:
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?329630-Tascam-DR-70D-what-do-you-think/page19 (http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?329630-Tascam-DR-70D-what-do-you-think/page19)
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FWIW, the mini jack line in and outs use different opamps: NJM 4580. The NE5532A are only used for the 4 main XLR combo inputs.
I never tried using the line or camera outs until after I got my unit modded, which replaced all the opamps with LME49720. Both outputs are noiseless for me, but maybe others can share their experiences with a stock unit.
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I found out, this weekend, that the Aux-in in Sarges Pontiac Vibe head unit doesn't like the line-level output from the DR70D.
I plugged it in to have a listen to the show on the way home, and started experiencing severe distortion. I thought; How the heck did I hammer this recording so badly? [eyes bugging out smilie] I then unplugged, and ran headphone out, and it all cleared up.
No problems with any issues in any recording so far.....
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I found out, this weekend, that the Aux-in in Sarges Pontiac Vibe head unit doesn't like the line-level output from the DR70D.
I plugged it in to have a listen to the show on the way home, and started experiencing severe distortion. I thought; How the heck did I hammer this recording so badly? [eyes bugging out smilie] I then unplugged, and ran headphone out, and it all cleared up.
No problems with any issues in any recording so far.....
The line out has an adjustable level in the menu - did you go into the settings and try lowering it to see if you were just brickwalling your aux input on your head unit?
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I was on the road home from the gig. Menu fiddling was not the thing to be doing at that point. So at a traffic signal stop, I re-jacked into the headphone jack, and, enjoyed the rest of the trip home. Next time, I'll check the output.
Yeah, definitely was brickwalling the head unit.
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Most of Tascam high end audio products claim they use Tascam HDDA input amplifier tecnique and 5532 amplifiers (except Dr701)).
I have not seen any diagrams but to me it is interpreted as Tascam input amplifiers has a discrete transistor input stage combined with 5532 opamps which together set input noise levels obtained.
That may explain why it did not change a lot to switch 5532 amplifiers with even less noisy amplifiers as discrete components are still a major part of noise levels.
Anyway I would personally not really care of the present noise as that is hardly the limit for most users compared to microphones used generally.
However i have seen in other forums that people struggle with camera/line out especially camera out which seems to have severe noise problems due to some design flaw with output amplifiers.
Most users referred with this problem has solved this S/N problem by neglecting camera out (which should have been an attenuated line signal) but using the line out signal and purchase a cable with builtin attenuator (25dB in this case).
Camera out was probably intended to be used with DLSR cameraes which have a microphone input with high sensitivity so lineout needs to be attenuated to fit this input signal level.
By using the line out with proper gain settingsfor this it seems to be working but using cameraout it seems to be a degraded lineout signal with lower S/N level that is not of decent quality. That is a pity :-(.
Does anyone in here have any experience on this problem with Tascam line out versus camera out settings and how it could be related to lineout gain settings eventually and why it is better to use an attenuator cable instead of internal gain setting? Again this could be a design flaw similar to camera out.
Well...
I made a few measurements with the DR70 line out, and guess what: I did not recognize the problem that a lot of other people have met when using the lineout signals and found too much hiss with camera out.
Are there any information that the latest version 1.13 should have removed this hiss problem or are we up against some basic operator problems here incl me?
Basic is that hiss should be measureable like any other signal.
Difference of line out and camera out is a level difference of 30db (camera out is line out -30db)
so i made a test of measuring noise at line and camera out and it shows a difference of 30dB as stated and no more or less noise at camera out.
a simple setting is that at monitor you may set lineout to -18dB and camera out to +12 dB and voila you get the same volume output at line/camera out. (measuring AC at output)
So how can this be explained.
Does this problem not exist other than people abusing level settings when connected to DSLR's and similar or am i missing something.
Why would people go out paying for expensive cabling (attenuators) to solve a problem that may not exist?
I just cannot see it, sorry.
This is one of the forums that claim this to be a problem and some reports here say that problem is present at least with ver 1.12:
http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?329630-Tascam-DR-70D-what-do-you-think/page19 (http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?329630-Tascam-DR-70D-what-do-you-think/page19)
I am still puzzled of this problem that some people claim Tascam makes noise out of LINE/CAM output, welll I cannot make it happen, sorry guys.
May be it is because i do not have a GH4 that is part of the problem, but i try to be objective and get some value facts.
Actually no one claims it to be noisy but claim that S/N is worse when CAM Output is used, but my claim is that it is NOT, problem must be elsewhere in the understanding of connecting a second MIC amp (GH4)
As S/N is the clue i do not care of signal levels but try to measure noise levels of Tascam.
my setup is:
Input CH1 is shunted by 150 ohm impedance simulating a low noise microphone at XLR.
GAIN is set at max HIGH PLUS (+63dB)
LINE Output is taken into some recorder, I have used Sony M10 but it could be any lownoise amplifier/recorder but it could also have been a quality AC Voltmeter but we are talking of very levels (uV).
Output at LINEOUT is Input amplifiers selfnoise (amplified 63dB) which is claimed to be better than -120dBu (<1uV)
The picture below is showing noise output at LINE OUTPUT at LINE GAIN settings of +10 dB/0 dB/-10dB/-20dB/-30dB
Same picture can be made for CAM output which is LineOutput -30dB.
These steps on recorded noise show exactly 10 dB attenuation for all steps so no additional noise is added at different attenuator settings nor for CAM Output.
Claim was that noise is increasing on LINE/CAM Output when attenuation is set lower and therefore attenuation cable would make a difference.
Well it is not TASCAM that is producing this noise as you may see at picture which is total noise coming out of LINE OUT with input shorted and displayed with Audition from noise file recorded with M10.
I am not able to conclude what makes GH4 a problem with Tascam, which seems to be a fact as well, but it is not explained by a noisy output of TASCAM unit
Conclusion is that you will have the same noise and S/N whether you use Tascam attenuation on LINE OUT or CAM (-30dB) and it would not normally need any attenuation cable
Maybe others could dig into this problem with GH4 and have a conclusion that is eatable, but I am convinced that it is not caused by TASCAM DR70.
TASCAM DR70 is a fine recorder but have to be used with care as any recorder.
PERIOD.
I hope you forgive me being stubbern on this :-)
a little "googl'ing" gave this, which might explain a lot:
http://suggestionofmotion.com/blog/panasonic-gh4-audio-buzz/ (http://suggestionofmotion.com/blog/panasonic-gh4-audio-buzz/)
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GAIN is set at max HIGH PLUS (+63dB)
Have you tried this one of the lower gain settings?
Others have said the HI-PLUS setting is noisy - regardless of how you are routing the signal...
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GAIN is set at max HIGH PLUS (+63dB)
Have you tried this one of the lower gain settings?
Others have said the HI-PLUS setting is noisy - regardless of how you are routing the signal...
No
The noise measured is the absolute value of noise generated in input amplifiers, amplified at 63 dB (1400x) and routed to LINEOUT, where it could be further amplified (12dB) or attenuated.
This is ofcourse the same condition for any signal added to input.
Are you suggesting that noise at LINEOUT could be different dependant on input amplifier gain range selected? It is somehow simulated by setting LINEOUT GAIN to -10-60dB
HIGH GAIN+ is not very noisy. Most people are interpreting this wrong because microphones generally are very noisy (20dB(NOT dBA)) so what you se on display with most mics is mic noise amplified 63dB and that is not looking very usefull. With mic replaced with dummy 150ohm, noise is not even visble at display at max gain 63dB (-57-60dBu or app 1mV) .
if you take a low noise mic (5-10dB) like MKH50/NT1A you will not see any noise at display if used at very low sound levels or at low level sound chamber:
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i may be the last person on this channel that has any curiousity left with DR 70.
It would be nice if somebody could try to do the same test or maybe correct me if i am doing anything wrong at the following test.
i have a problem with LINE OUT signal that I am trying to understand but not succeeded sofar.
I have verified that LINEOUT has a permanent GAIN of 8.2 dB (2.5X) from XLR input to the display when LINEOUT GAIN set to 0dB.
It is verified with specs as LINEOUT has a max output of 6dBV (2V RMS) and as display has a max of 0dBu (0.775V RMS) this would be a difference of2/0.775=2.5X (8.2dB).
This has been verified at different gain settings so if you put a signal to the XLR input you will see a difference between signal displayed and LINEOUT of 8.2 dB (2.5X) . (LINEOUT GAIN set to 0dB)
Sofar so good. this could influence some interface understandings but ok.
My problem is a bit further.
If i try to use SLATE I get a different result and that seems strange or at least I do not understand it.
If I set SLATE to -12dB it would show -12 dB on display which would be the same as 0dBu-12 = 0.775V/4 which is the same as 0.19375V.
As remembered from above LINEOUT has a gain of 8.2dB so the expected output would be 0.19375V X 2.5 = 0.48V right?
Well TASCAM has another result as output is double up 0.96V (+6dB) which puzzles me because why should gain from input to LINEOUT be different for SLATE to LINEOUT.
It is fairly easy verified if you set LINEOUT gain to compensate for this. Set LINEOUT GAIN to -(6+8)dB (-14dB) and you will se that LINEOUT now show the expected 0.194xxV at output (app).
This could mean that you are not getting the calibration you intended as calibration signal is +6dB too high compared to the actual signal when you connect somthing to LINEOUT.
???
To me it looks like a design bug but if anyone could clarify this to me i would sleep better :-).
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You're certainly not the only person here still interested in this recorder, but you may be one of the few here who both own one of these and have the measurement capabilities.
Perhaps one could use a test tone generator with a known output level into the line input and compare that to the internal slate tones? I could do that with my FP24.
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You're certainly not the only person here still interested in this recorder, but you may be one of the few here who both own one of these and have the measurement capabilities.
Perhaps one could use a test tone generator with a known output level into the line input and compare that to the internal slate tones? I could do that with my FP24.
Ok then :-)
I have not yet been playing with LINE inputs so that could be interesting as well, I am not sure I even have a cable that fits.
That FP24 looks like a fine piece of HW :D.
OK, found a cable and made the same test with input at LINE IN.
I set LINEOUT GAIN to 0 dB. Input signal at LINE IN 1kHz at -12 dBu.
Set SLATE at -12dBu as well.
Start recording with LINE IN at -12dBu and measure at LINEOUT which measures 480mV RMS (LOW GAIN). (that is 0 dBu/775mv -12dB + 8.2dB LINEOUT GAIN)
When SLATE is pressed,display also shows -12dBu, same as signal but LINEOUT raises +6dB to 960mV with SLATE active and falls back to 480mV when released.
So conclusion is that if you use SLATE for calibration of camera or similar connected equipment, you should be aware that SLATE causes a +6dB higher signal at LINEOUT than expected.
Unless I am blind to something this is definitely a severe error which should not have passed, but maybe TASCAM made this for marking only and did not intend it to be used for calibration.
I will wait for someone to confirm this before I report this to TASCAM :o
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Unless I am blind to something this is definitely a severe error which should not have passed, but maybe TASCAM made this for marking only and did not intend it to be used for calibration.
I will wait for someone to confirm this before I report this to TASCAM :o
I dont think it was meant for calibration - just marking start points.
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The 70d product page says the slate tone is an aid to sync audio and video. I don't recall if a TS member figured out you could also use it to match levels or if that's in the manual. But it wouldn't hurt to mention to Tascam that the tone is very useful to set matching levels between the 70d and camera, and to ask if they could address this in future firmware releases.
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You are probably right, but I have seen reports that people use this as a setup tool for connecting video devices (GH4) so this may have influence on results if not recognized.
Anyway I think I know what is happening now. ;D
LINEOUT is always a mixed output of all four channels (2 pairs).
SLATE is allways introduced to all 4 channels with same amplitude no matter how many channels enabled.
As pairs are mixed with same SLATE sinus (in phase) slate signal amplitude will be double when 2 channels are added (mixed) together.
it is obvious when you know it, but it did give me some headache.
As signals are routed at the moment there is nothing you can do about it other than set a lower SLATE signal (-6dB).
It would be nice if SLATE signal was only introduced to channels enabled.
I tried to invert phase of one set of channels, but that did not influence LINE output which otherwise would have been zero out if SLATE was inverted:-)
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Has anyone used the DR-70D in a stealth situation w/ external mics? Specifically I'm considering cable options.
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Has anyone used the DR-70D in a stealth situation w/ external mics? Specifically I'm considering cable options.
Stealthing board patches is tough. Especially if you're gonna stand there with mics too. I would suggest a 2 channel recorder for low-profile applications.
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Yeah I don't think this is a good recorder for that application, especially since you'll need external power if using phantom powered mics for over an hour or so. And if your intended external mics are the CM3s, they may not be the best choice either. They are super light and tiny, but I find them very sensitive to handling noise and vibration, so they really need proper shock mounts.
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A couple of weeks ago I recieved my replacement for the 70D i bought earlier and was kind of DOA.
The replacement came with 1.02 which I updated to 1.13 and set it up, connected a DPA 4066 via microdot to xlr and recorded for 40 minutes.
The 70D recorded perfectly as it should.
After 40 minutes it was barely warmer then the room, compared to the bad one which together with its batteries almost reached 122F/50°C and massively peaked all input channels.
The serial number on the new one was en even 5500X
Anyway I'm happy to have a working recorder at last.
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Anyway I'm happy to have a working recorder at last.
Good to hear you are finally up and running with another 70d
Which type of phantom converter are you using with 4066?
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I'm using the DAD 6001BC
Anyway I'm happy to have a working recorder at last.
Good to hear you are finally up and running with another 70d
Which type of phantom converter are you using with 4066?
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I am new here...hi! I came upon this forum researching issues with the DR-70D recorder. I recently purchased one and am having trouble. I bought it based on my great experience for 4 or 5 years with my DR-05 and the great reviews I saw on Amazon and Sweetwater. Wish I found this thread before I bought it.
I am using mine to record 4 channels out of my mixer when my music duo performs. The first time out with it, I got a file write error during our 3rd set...and it was lost. I got a replacement memory card, same one as the original which was a PNY P-SDX128U395-GE (128 GB high speed class 10 card) and got the same problem when I let it sit and record over night. I use this very same memory card in my Canon HD video recorder with no problems (knock on wood).
Based on the discussion here, I have ordered a card from the approved list from Tascam. Since I see that others have used the PNY card that I tried, I'm not holding out too much hope. We'll see. The card on its way to me is a SansDisk Extreme Pro 128 GB Class 10 card (SDSDXPA-128G-G46).
I wanted to add to this thread what my experience has been. I will report back my experience with the SansDisk card.
If this recorder doesn't pan out, I'll be getting a Zoom H6 to replace it. It will do what I want, though the form factor isn't ideal for me. I will make it work if I have to.
My setup is I am recording 4 channels to mono files at 16bit/44.1kHz. I am using line level inputs using TRS cables. I am feeding it line level signals coming from the direct outs on my mixer for each channel. I am powering via USB and have batteries installed. I am running the latest version of firmware available from Tascam's website. I also formatted the card (the option that takes longer...not the "quick format").
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Welcome, ballisticsquid.....you came to the right place. Lots of good people, lots of help here.
There is a card formatting process you should do that has been reported to help.
capn
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Thanks for the welcome. From reading other threads it looks like a great forum.
would you be so kind as to point me to the formatting procedure that might help?
Thanks!!
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Thanks for the welcome. From reading other threads it looks like a great forum.
would you be so kind as to point me to the formatting procedure that might help?
Thanks!!
I don't own one.
Someone will be by in a minute..... :alert:
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I am new here...hi! I came upon this forum researching issues with the DR-70D recorder. I recently purchased one and am having trouble. I bought it based on my great experience for 4 or 5 years with my DR-05 and the great reviews I saw on Amazon and Sweetwater. Wish I found this thread before I bought it.
I am using mine to record 4 channels out of my mixer when my music duo performs. The first time out with it, I got a file write error during our 3rd set...and it was lost. I got a replacement memory card, same one as the original which was a PNY P-SDX128U395-GE (128 GB high speed class 10 card) and got the same problem when I let it sit and record over night. I use this very same memory card in my Canon HD video recorder with no problems (knock on wood).
Based on the discussion here, I have ordered a card from the approved list from Tascam. Since I see that others have used the PNY card that I tried, I'm not holding out too much hope. We'll see. The card on its way to me is a SansDisk Extreme Pro 128 GB Class 10 card (SDSDXPA-128G-G46).
I wanted to add to this thread what my experience has been. I will report back my experience with the SansDisk card.
If this recorder doesn't pan out, I'll be getting a Zoom H6 to replace it. It will do what I want, though the form factor isn't ideal for me. I will make it work if I have to.
My setup is I am recording 4 channels to mono files at 16bit/44.1kHz. I am using line level inputs using TRS cables. I am feeding it line level signals coming from the direct outs on my mixer for each channel. I am powering via USB and have batteries installed. I am running the latest version of firmware available from Tascam's website. I also formatted the card (the option that takes longer...not the "quick format").
Welcome to TS! About your questions with the DR-70D:
Yes, it's picky with cards. Much hay has been made about that here, and we've never received a definitive answer from Tascam as to why, and probably never will. Long story short, some of us have had good luck with cards not on the recommended media list, while others do not. Cards that are on the list should be OK.
About the "formatting procedure", I think capnhook was referring to what I and a few others did to straighten out cards that got their filesystem borked in the 70D. This involves mounting the card in your PC and using the official SD Association Formatter and running a FULL (Over Write) format. Here's a link to it (http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=176802.0) as well as some other flash memory utilities.
Beyond that, it sounds like you were doing the right thing and using the Erase / Full Format, but if the card is simply not compatible, it may not matter. Hopefully you have better results with the SanDisk. FWIW, I don't know if anyone here has successfully used a 128GB PNY with the 70D, but I seem to remember a couple people did have good luck with the 64GB size.
There's a link in my signature to an FAQ for the 70D, and among other things there is an SD Card survey you might be interested in.
Last point - I would encourage you to stick with the 70D if possible vs. the H6. Having used both, I think it's a much better unit overall, especially the quality of the built-in preamps.
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Thanks Voltronic!
My DR-05 has been nothing but reliable for the many years I've had it (got it when it first came out), so I was surprised to run into issues with this.
The form factor of the DR-70D is perfect for me, so I wasn't relishing moving to the Zoom H6. I'm not using the preamps, but I like the build and usability of the DR-70D.
Anyway, the new memory card arrived today and I managed to record 3 and a half hours straight with no trouble. That's the longest I've gone so far. So I've now set it to record overnight. If tomorrow morning it is still happily recording away, I will be satisfied. I'll report back on that outcome, but I am hesitantly optimistic at this point.
Here you can see why the form factor of this works best for me. When it's worked, it's been a fantastic setup. I'm surprised that Tascam only markets this towards the DSLR crowd.
(http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f128/maggior/20160308_145104_zpswblsyuq1.jpg)
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So my overnight recording test was successful. I recorded over 7 hours with no trouble. I couldn't get past about 3 before. At times it would crap out before an hour. So the recommended card took care of the problem.
So beware of the PNY P-SDX128U395-GE card. 2 of them did NOT work for me.
It was a little more expensive, but at least it worked. I am successful with the SansDisk Extreme Pro 128 GB Class 10 card (SDSDXPA-128G-G46).
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My latest 70D recording here, with a balcony "Faulkner II" array direct into the recorder: http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=176324.msg2180991#msg2180991 (http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=176324.msg2180991#msg2180991)
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I am successful with the SansDisk Extreme Pro 128 GB Class 10 card (SDSDXPA-128G-G46).
Well, the SD Extreme Pro Class 10 cards are on the "OK" list from Tascam/TEAC. I purchased a 32GB version of the above card and did a 6h40m test record (4 channels) the other night. NO problems at all. As much as it's nice to have a 128GB card, I don't want to take too much of a risk so I went with the less expensive 32GB option. Worst case, I'll pick up a second card down the road to have as a swapable one.
TL;DR: +1 to the above card as it worked for me (smaller 32GB card).
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Another flawless 24/48 4 channel recording, latest firmware.
Last week Thursday at the Cap, Phil Lesh and the Q.
mk22 16 bit: http://bt.etree.org/details.php?id=585569
mk22 24 bit: http://bt.etree.org/details.php?id=585574
mk41v 16 bit: http://bt.etree.org/details.php?id=585572
mk41v 24 bit: http://bt.etree.org/details.php?id=585573
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I ran into an issue that may be helpful to others.
I've been using an approved 16g card without incident. As that card was nearly full, I decided to delete the files while the card was still in my computer (Mac). Move to Trash, card empty, eject disk, put card back in deck, done.
Well, I get about :40 minutes into recording at my next event and it stopped recording. My card was 'full'.
When I got home, I backed up that :40 minute file, reinserted the card back into the deck and formatted the card again. Boom! Card has 16+ hours of record time available.
Lesson: Always check the Remaining Time, located in the upper right of the display.
And.... I believe I may begin the habit of deleting files from the card while it is in the deck.
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One possible thing to consider is that when you mount removable storage on a Mac, and then mount that media in a Windows machine you'll notice that a bunch of files have been written automatically. (.DS store and things like that.) You may not see them unless you you have ticked the option to display hidden files. While these are very tiny files, I could see a situation where something like a portable audio recorder could have issues dealing with those files and it throwing off the space remaining calculation. I don't know this for sure, I'm just speculating.
Either way, instead of worrying about where you're deleting files, I'd say it's better to just format the card (in the recorder) once it's getting full which both deletes everything but also rebuilds the file system.
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Lesson 2- When Mac files are in a trashcan, they stay in the trashcan until emptied, and that trashcan is an invisible folder on the volume. EMPTY THE TRASHCAN and this will not happen. I don't recall when I learned this, but I can assure you that it was the hard way, and it must have been after 2007 when I got my first SD recorder... :facepalm:
Windows, I think the recycling bin behaves differently...
I ran into an issue that may be helpful to others.
I've been using an approved 16g card without incident. As that card was nearly full, I decided to delete the files while the card was still in my computer (Mac). Move to Trash, card empty, eject disk, put card back in deck, done.
Well, I get about :40 minutes into recording at my next event and it stopped recording. My card was 'full'.
When I got home, I backed up that :40 minute file, reinserted the card back into the deck and formatted the card again. Boom! Card has 16+ hours of record time available.
Lesson: Always check the Remaining Time, located in the upper right of the display.
And.... I believe I may begin the habit of deleting files from the card while it is in the deck.
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Let me clarify. I didn't lose any files, as I always back the back up first. But prior to removing the SD card from my mac, I opted to delete the files on the card. I just thought this was simpler than deleting each file one by one using the delete function in the deck.I think, as Voltronic just stated, that I could have just left the card alone, put it back in the recorder and reformatted it there.
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So my overnight recording test was successful. I recorded over 7 hours with no trouble. I couldn't get past about 3 before. At times it would crap out before an hour. So the recommended card took care of the problem.
So beware of the PNY P-SDX128U395-GE card. 2 of them did NOT work for me.
It was a little more expensive, but at least it worked. I am successful with the SansDisk Extreme Pro 128 GB Class 10 card (SDSDXPA-128G-G46).
Thanks for reporting on the PNY 128gb sdxc cards, because I was about to buy [2] of them soon! I have successfully used the PNY 64gb Elite AND 32gb High Performance Class 10 cards, so I guess I will just pick up a few more 64gb Elite Performance PNY cards since Ive successfully used those for months now! So reliably that I'm selling my m10 and going with [2] 70D's instead of [1] 70D and [1] M10! I just want to be done with mini connectors too! Plus the option to run [2] PFA's into one 70D or have [1] 70D for each of my rigs, which I can easily power with USB batteries, which is SUPER easy and convenient IMO! And I always have my VMS to feed a pair of XLR's and a pair of RCA's for a mini connector like my M10, as a backup from my VMS! I have literally recorded hundreds of hours with my 70D in the year I've had it, during festies and shows and during battery tests like I'm doing now[I do this every spring before festie season :)], and it seems reliable enough for me to sell my M10 :) I can always pick one up down the road :) I'm not going to lie, the actives>PFA>70D is too easy and sounds too good, so I might as well have that option for both of my rigs! And have the VMS for when I fell like it :)
Anyway, lets keep the card data coming in! Thanks to ballisticsquid for the info on the 128gb PNY card, since I was planning on buying [2] of them soon! I'll just stick with the PNY 64gb Elite cards for now since they've worked so beautifully for me so far :)
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I am just SOOOOO glad that the v1.13 firmware seems to have fixed the lion share of problems that everyone was having :) Mine has always functioned properly since getting my PNY SD cards last summer [my 70D is picky about microsdhc cards for some reason], but I'm glad that everyone is happy with their 70D's for now! We wont get many features we want in firmware updates because Tascam came out with the 701D, which has many of the features we wanted on the 70D lol :) But I have been running the shit out of my 70D since the new v1.13 firmware came out and its been nothing but reliable so far[knocks on wood], as its always been :) I'm happy with my 70D enough to sell my M10 and pick up a second 70D :)
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Just a word of caution to anyone new to this recorder and/or thread: unless you stick to cards on Tascam's recommended list, you cannot be sure that they are going to work reliably.
That said, some of us have had reliable results with non-approved cards, while other models in the same series may be no good. If you all think it's worthwhile, then please post the specific model number of your card here (ex. SDSDXPA-128G-G46) and I'll make a list of TS-member tested good cards on the FAQ page. I'd still recommend anyone card shopping just get a card from the official list, but you may have a card that happens to work fine already.
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Is it just the large capacity cards that are the problem, has anyone had problems with smaller cards eg 8 or 16 Gb ?
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Is it just the large capacity cards that are the problem, has anyone had problems with smaller cards eg 8 or 16 Gb ?
There doesnt seem to be any rhyme or reason to what works...consider the official list...
A SanDisk 16GB card works - but the 32GB version doesn't...
A Panasonic 32GB card is OK - but the 16GB version..."Do Not Use"
Id stick with cards on the list - my LEXAR cards worked great for a year - until they didn't...
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Just a word of caution to anyone new to this recorder and/or thread: unless you stick to cards on Tascam's recommended list, you cannot be sure that they are going to work reliably.
That said, some of us have had reliable results with non-approved cards, while other models in the same series may be no good. If you all think it's worthwhile, then please post the specific model number of your card here (ex. SDSDXPA-128G-G46) and I'll make a list of TS-member tested good cards on the FAQ page. I'd still recommend anyone card shopping just get a card from the official list, but you may have a card that happens to work fine already.
What will be interesting is as the manufacturers put out new cards, will they work? It will not be fun if you find yourself having to pay top dollar for old models of cards down the road.
Does the DR-701D have the same issues related to memory cards?
At this point, the DR-701D isn't really a viable substitute...it's more than twice the price of the 70d :o.
Regarding features finding their way to the 70D from the 701D, I wouldn't be surprised if some come our way. When updating the FW in my new 70D, I decided to check for updates to my DR-05. Surprisingly there was! I bought that 5 years ago and they are still releasing updates. They weren't features I cared about, but I was happy to see that they are still actively supporting that device.
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Just a word of caution to anyone new to this recorder and/or thread: unless you stick to cards on Tascam's recommended list, you cannot be sure that they are going to work reliably.
That said, some of us have had reliable results with non-approved cards, while other models in the same series may be no good. If you all think it's worthwhile, then please post the specific model number of your card here (ex. SDSDXPA-128G-G46) and I'll make a list of TS-member tested good cards on the FAQ page. I'd still recommend anyone card shopping just get a card from the official list, but you may have a card that happens to work fine already.
It would also be value information as well, if tapers took some of their failure cards and made a few tests with v1.13 to see whether it actually made a difference to update recorder or not related to troubled cards.
I have only tested a single card but with no issues (v1.13), a TRANSCEND standard class 6 8Gb (TS08GSDHC6)
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Volts,....
The FAQ page needs to be updated regarding the right angle USB cable; this cable is no longer available in the link:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/321703733141
Does anyone know of a similar R.A. cable?
I wouldn't know what to look for, so I ask.
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Just a word of caution to anyone new to this recorder and/or thread: unless you stick to cards on Tascam's recommended list, you cannot be sure that they are going to work reliably.
That said, some of us have had reliable results with non-approved cards, while other models in the same series may be no good. If you all think it's worthwhile, then please post the specific model number of your card here (ex. SDSDXPA-128G-G46) and I'll make a list of TS-member tested good cards on the FAQ page. I'd still recommend anyone card shopping just get a card from the official list, but you may have a card that happens to work fine already.
It would also be value information as well, if tapers took some of their failure cards and made a few tests with v1.13 to see whether it actually made a difference to update recorder or not related to troubled cards.
I have only tested a single card but with no issues (v1.13), a TRANSCEND standard class 6 8Gb (TS08GSDHC6)
That would be interesting. A whole bunch of people responded to my SD card survey but not since 1.12 firmware was out, but I think some of those who had problems moved on and no longer have a 70D. The non-approved card I have that works is a 16GB Transcend, FWIW.
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Volts,....
The FAQ page needs to be updated regarding the right angle USB cable; this cable is no longer available in the link:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/321703733141
Does anyone know of a similar R.A. cable?
I wouldn't know what to look for, so I ask.
Groovon was the one who initially found these. You'd want a "left angle" on the microUSB end so the cable exits pointing to the front of the recorder. The angle is how you would drive through an intersection if you were coming out of the USB jack. The other end could be a "right" or "left" angle depending on how you orient your battery. I could only find a handful on eBay right now that have a left angle on the microUSB side with any kind of angle on the full-size USB end:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Micro-Male-left-Angle-to-USB-2-0-A-Left-Angle-connector-Cable-adapter-Cord-20cm-/141137879899 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Micro-Male-left-Angle-to-USB-2-0-A-Left-Angle-connector-Cable-adapter-Cord-20cm-/141137879899)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Left-Angled-90D-Micro-USB-Male-to-Left-Angled-A-Type-Male-Stretch-Data-Cable-GL-/111849469128 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Left-Angled-90D-Micro-USB-Male-to-Left-Angled-A-Type-Male-Stretch-Data-Cable-GL-/111849469128)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pair-USB-A-male-Righ-left-bend-angle-90-degree-Micro5P-cable-Micro-USB-charging-/121930736672 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pair-USB-A-male-Righ-left-bend-angle-90-degree-Micro5P-cable-Micro-USB-charging-/121930736672)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Usb-A-2-0-right-angle-male-to-micro-usb-left-angled-90-degree-cable-cord-50CM-/231880889716 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Usb-A-2-0-right-angle-male-to-micro-usb-left-angled-90-degree-cable-cord-50CM-/231880889716)
Here's a picture to illustrate the different angles:
(http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/gqQAAOSwJcZWg7j8/s-l1600.jpg)
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Thank you very much for that. I got nowhere in my search, and actually left the internet befuddled, I think?!?
I had ordered the one in the link (that is no longer available). It came up MIA in shipping, and I never received it. When I retried the purchase, it came up as no longer available.
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Just a word of caution to anyone new to this recorder and/or thread: unless you stick to cards on Tascam's recommended list, you cannot be sure that they are going to work reliably.
That said, some of us have had reliable results with non-approved cards, while other models in the same series may be no good. If you all think it's worthwhile, then please post the specific model number of your card here (ex. SDSDXPA-128G-G46) and I'll make a list of TS-member tested good cards on the FAQ page. I'd still recommend anyone card shopping just get a card from the official list, but you may have a card that happens to work fine already.
It would also be value information as well, if tapers took some of their failure cards and made a few tests with v1.13 to see whether it actually made a difference to update recorder or not related to troubled cards.
I have only tested a single card but with no issues (v1.13), a TRANSCEND standard class 6 8Gb (TS08GSDHC6)
Great idea! If my M10 doesn't sell soon, I'll retry the 16gb Adata cards that gave me problems before v1.13 came out, that Im including in my M10 sale! If v1.13 fixed the card compatibility issues as well, then I think its a really solid update! I didn't have problems before v1.13 came out, once I used cards I tested at home, before I took them in the field! So if v1.13 doesn't fix the issue with card reliability then its not much of an update IMO :) But I'm hoping that noone ever gets another "Write Timeout" error again, at the very least ;) Its been super reliable with me with my PNY cards though so its hit or miss, which is probably the same with most products out there! Some cards work great, other are crap! That's true with recorders and cameras and many other things!
I'll report right back with my PNY serial/code/whatever so we know exactly which cards work and which ones don't work :)
EDIT!!!
Here's my [2] PNY card details
PNY 64gb Elite Performance 95MB/s Class 10
SDX64GU13R90SFMC4M16-K
PNY 32gb High Performance 50MB/s Class 10
SDH32GU11R90SFMC4H16EK
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A general question for you guys that use the DR-70D to record concert performances...what is the appeal of this device? It seems to me that there are more portable and stealthy options out there.
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A general question for you guys that use the DR-70D to record concert performances...what is the appeal of this device? It seems to me that there are more portable and stealthy options out there.
I think most of us record open - not stealth...
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A general question for you guys that use the DR-70D to record concert performances...what is the appeal of this device? It seems to me that there are more portable and stealthy options out there.
There is a smaller device with 4 XLR inputs, decent onboard preamps, and provides phantom power all day long using a USB battery pack?
Do tell.
I am not using the DR-70D for stealth. And I don't imagine many people are, either. I bought mine bundled with SF Pro 11 for $200. I sold the SF Pro for $50. So I got a 4 channel recorder that makes great tapes for $150. Quite appealing.
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It has killer pre's/ADC and sounds amazing IMO! For $150! Plus, the 70D is TINY IMO!!! Its MUCH smaller than you think! I thought it looked a little big until I held one in my hands! Its the smallest 4 XLR Input/Phantom deck out there actually ;) Its not cluttered with useless menu options and is super easy to run! And Im ADDICTED to the USB battery pack powering method! Does it get ANY easier than that? Nothing I have used the last 20 years has really been easier honestly 8)
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Where can you get it for $150?
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Where can you get it for $150?
Nowhere. Some of us bought it on sale at B&H for $200 bundled with Sound Forge Pro 11 and sold the SF Pro 11 for $50 in the Yard Sale, making it a net $150 purchase. Haven't seen a crazy deal on them recently.
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Oh, OK. Keep in mind I'm asking out of curiosity, not trying to be argumentative.
When you are recording a show, why do you need 4 inputs?
I've never made my own concert recording other than of myself playing or my daughter playing at her piano recital, but I was a pretty serious collector of concert recordings at one point. I always envisioned the tapers going in with a recorder tucked away in their cargo pants with a pair of small mics attached to a baseball cap.
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Where can you get it for $150?
Nowhere. Some of us bought it on sale at B&H for $200 bundled with Sound Forge Pro 11 and sold the SF Pro 11 for $50 in the Yard Sale, making it a net $150 purchase. Haven't seen a crazy deal on them recently.
It can be had for ~$265 at Amazon now. I was really happy with that price.
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You need to visit a tapers section at some point and you'll see a more realistic picture of how those recordings are made.
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And, no promotion bundle at the moment but I'd still prefer to give my business to B&H...
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1086798-REG/tascam_dr_70d_4_channel_audio_recording.html
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Oh, OK. Keep in mind I'm asking out of curiosity, not trying to be argumentative.
When you are recording a show, why do you need 4 inputs?
I've never made my own concert recording other than of myself playing or my daughter playing at her piano recital, but I was a pretty serious collector of concert recordings at one point. I always envisioned the tapers going in with a recorder tucked away in their cargo pants with a pair of small mics attached to a baseball cap.
Examples:
2 Audience Mics + L/R Soundboard Feed
Any variety of 3 mic techniques
2 Sets of mics (say you got a new set - now you an run both and compare)
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Next time you see it for net $150, let me know! ;D
Another example when 4 xlrs are handy:
Fellow taper forgot to pack his preamp! That just happened to me! Luckily I had my PMD661 that I could loan him.
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The idea of anyone using this recording for stealth recording seems pretty hilarious to me, especially considering the need for an external battery for more than an hour and half or so with phantom powered mics. I have never done that kind of recording, but I imagine that people that do it have far smaller, lighter, and better options.
As far as why anyone needs 4 channels, well the most obvious thing no one mentioned yet is that you're recording using a 4-mic array. Here's one example that I used with my 70D last week:
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=176324.msg2180991#msg2180991 (http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=176324.msg2180991#msg2180991)
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The idea of anyone using this recording for stealth recording seems pretty hilarious to me, especially considering the need for an external battery for more than an hour and half or so with phantom powered mics. I have never done that kind of recording, but I imagine that people that do it have far smaller, lighter, and better options.
As far as why anyone needs 4 channels, well the most obvious thing no one mentioned yet is that you're recording using a 4-mic array. Here's one example that I used with my 70D last week:
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=176324.msg2180991#msg2180991 (http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=176324.msg2180991#msg2180991)
Wow, that sounds great!
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Voltronic gives serious attention to his craft.
I have a 60 voice choir with piano I may record. I'd like to record the choir in m/s and mic the piano under the lid. Can I record m/s on two xlr channels and record a pair of dpa 4061s into the 1\8 stereo on the 70d? The dpa mics will probably run through either a bb or a pipsqueak into the 1\8 stereo input.
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Voltronic gives serious attention to his craft.
I have a 60 voice choir with piano I may record. I'd like to record the choir in m/s and mic the piano under the lid. Can I record m/s on two xlr channels and record a pair of dpa 4061s into the 1\8 stereo on the 70d? The dpa mics will probably run through either a bb or a pipsqueak into the 1\8 stereo input.
Thanks!
That should work with the 70D, but as someone who records the exact thing you're describing all the time, I have to ask why you want to do an inside the piano placement. I rarely like that sound unless it's a jazz band where you have to worry about lots of PA bleed. In an accompanied choir situation, you should let the conductor have control of the balance and give a simple overall sound. Inside the piano for me is a last resort option, as it almost always sounds boxy and is pretty difficult place your mics to get a consistent balance across the full range. (Full disclosure, I'm a pianist and choir director so I have very strong opinions on this.)
I would just use one pair of mics only for the whole thing, either your Schoeps m/s or spaced 4061s which would be my preference. I'm traveling the next couple days but when I'm back home I can send you some samples.
Can you describe the concert any further? What age singers, type of piano, type of space, type of music?
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High school choir, good pianist playing a concert grand Steinway, very nice acoustic space. They will be singing a piece in a style similar to the Brooklyn Tabernacle choir.
The piano in this space is awesome.
So...ideal setup for this would be?
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There are people that do stealth with less than stealthy gear. I've seen SD744 with Schoeps actives as well as an R-4 with full body AKGs. Ninja skills.
That said, the form factor of this for 4 channels with phantom power is what people want it for. I have a 60D and picked it up just before the 70D came out. I immediately wanted to change, but after the card issues came up, I am sort of glad I stuck with my 60D even though it only has 2 channels of phantom.
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I've Jedi'd my way with an HD-P2, full body mikes, and an invisible cloak before. I wasn't the taper they were looking for.. 8)
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4022s v3 and an m1 is the most I ever stealthed.
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High school choir, good pianist playing a concert grand Steinway, very nice acoustic space. They will be singing a piece in a style similar to the Brooklyn Tabernacle choir.
The piano in this space is awesome.
So...ideal setup for this would be?
4061s on a tall stand a few feet back from conductor and a few feet higher than his/her head, as much as the height of your stand will allow. Depending on where piano is, you may need to go back a little more so it's properly balanced. Typically the piano is to the left of the conductor, but if it's far downstage you should move your stand a few feet backwards to avoid the piano overpowering the left half of the choir on your recording. Space the mics 50cm wide as a starting point, listen and adjust if needed. If you can do it, you could run your m/s rig centred between the 4061s and decide which one you like later. The two pairs probably won't mix well unless your omnis are spaced more than 60cm though. From the sound of things though, your 4061s are going to nail this.
If you're rather close, you can remove the 4061 grids to remove the HF bump. Just be careful to orient the capsules to the front as that turns them into side address. Or if you leave them on, be prepared to do assume EQ later to calm down the brightness. Gutbucket gave me some great advice with that, and I think I used a 5-6dB cut with a wide Q around 12kHz but then a shelf at 20kHz so it doesn't do the highs too much.
One thing about the piano: if it's a really good instrument, please try to convince them to either leave the lid fully closed (if the conductor is concerned with overpowering the choir) or going full stick (which will obstruct the sightlines but have the best sound). Avoid the short stick, as it makes the treble very beamy from the audience perspective. I will sometimes use the short stick with our abused school pianos that have very dull treble response to compensate, but if this Steinway is in good shape I'd avoid that.
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This Steinway is fantastic. They keep the lid down.
Thanks.
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Ive always wanted to mike pianos :) Just never had the chance :( I figure I could do it justice with 4 caps/actives that I have now! And a few churces in town are absolutely perfect for recording!
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Ive always wanted to mike pianos :) Just never had the chance :( I figure I could do it justice with 4 caps/actives that I have now! And a few churces in town are absolutely perfect for recording!
For solo piano in a good space, go full-stick and spaced omnis up high and 6-8ft away. Or, try the "Decca tail" technique where the spaced omnis are on a low stand on stage pointing at the tail of the piano, about same distance.
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Ive always wanted to mike pianos :) Just never had the chance :( I figure I could do it justice with 4 caps/actives that I have now! And a few churces in town are absolutely perfect for recording!
For solo piano in a good space, go full-stick and spaced omnis up high and 6-8ft away. Or, try the "Decca tail" technique where the spaced omnis are on a low stand on stage pointing at the tail of the piano, about same distance.
Thanks Voltronic!
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spaced omnis
How far apart would you space your omnis? And how would you mike a grand in a small room?
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spaced omnis
How far apart would you space your omnis? And how would you mike a grand in a small room?
As I said a few posts above, start at 50cm. That's where things usually sound best to me, but you can definitely adjust in and out by ear, and the Williams Stereophonic Zoom doc has a chart that can be helpful.
For a piano in a small room though, this is NOT a good recording choice. You're going to wind up accentuating all the early reflections of the low ceiling and narrow walls, and it will sound pretty awful. Piano in a small room means you really don't want much of the sound of the room in your recording. Instead, I'd try a traditional Faulkner array (20cm spaced fig8s, straight ahead) a little closer, maybe 3-4ft away and aimed inside the open lid roughly of to an angle at the bend of the piano. The nulls of the fig8 should help avoid a lot of those early reflections, except for directly behind the mics where you may need something absorptive on that wall opposite the mics.
Another option is near-spaced cards. I'd go for something like DIN or NOS instead of ORTF, again to reduce the room sound, but to give you some natural stereo. You could also go X/Y which would have the least ambiance, but I'm not a fan of that for piano because the stereo image can move around in a distracting way as the pianist moves up and down the range of the keyboard. In other words, the imaging is too precise. Same placement distance to start with, but don't be afraid to go closer to get more direct sound and less room. You'll have to experiment.
Just realizing that this should really be discussed in another thread, maybe in Team Classical.
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I've tried a few different approaches to recording a grand piano in a living room treated with acoustical panels, and the results were just okay at best.
Find a good piano in a good, open space, and the results will be more pleasing.
The nice thing about the 70d having 4 xlr inputs is you can easily try a couple of different mic setups to compare.
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spaced omnis
How far apart would you space your omnis? And how would you mike a grand in a small room?
As I said a few posts above, start at 50cm. That's where things usually sound best to me, but you can definitely adjust in and out by ear, and the Williams Stereophonic Zoom doc has a chart that can be helpful.
For a piano in a small room though, this is NOT a good recording choice. You're going to wind up accentuating all the early reflections of the low ceiling and narrow walls, and it will sound pretty awful. Piano in a small room means you really don't want much of the sound of the room in your recording. Instead, I'd try a traditional Faulkner array (20cm spaced fig8s, straight ahead) a little closer, maybe 3-4ft away and aimed inside the open lid roughly of to an angle at the bend of the piano. The nulls of the fig8 should help avoid a lot of those early reflections, except for directly behind the mics where you may need something absorptive on that wall opposite the mics.
Another option is near-spaced cards. I'd go for something like DIN or NOS instead of ORTF, again to reduce the room sound, but to give you some natural stereo. You could also go X/Y which would have the least ambiance, but I'm not a fan of that for piano because the stereo image can move around in a distracting way as the pianist moves up and down the range of the keyboard. In other words, the imaging is too precise. Same placement distance to start with, but don't be afraid to go closer to get more direct sound and less room. You'll have to experiment.
Just realizing that this should really be discussed in another thread, maybe in Team Classical.
Thanks very much for all that valuable info, including that Williams document which I missed hearing about.
My mics have been usually set-up in the curve or bentside of my piano using near-spaced cards. Recently I used the DR70d to add two omnis further away for a 4-track recording I hoped to blend together into stereo. But I couldn't get a sound I liked from the omnis and now I know why.
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I've tried a few different approaches to recording a grand piano in a living room treated with acoustical panels, and the results were just okay at best.
Find a good piano in a good, open space, and the results will be more pleasing.
The nice thing about the 70d having 4 xlr inputs is you can easily try a couple of different mic setups to compare.
That's true about the DR70D and I've used it that way [see reply to Voltronic above]. It's great to be able to compare the exact same performance with different mic setups.
I'm afraid I'm stuck with this piano in this small space. I wanted a private spot away from the rest of the house and had this grand lifted by crane into my 3rd floor attic (the staircase was too narrow). So now I've got sort of a ship-in-a-bottle!
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^let's see the pictures.
You will find this thread of interest. https://www.gearslutz.com/board/gear-shoot-outs-sound-file-comparisons-audio-tests/150891-ribbon-madness-some-comparisons.html
Spoiler: his favorite set of mics was a pair of Joly modded Apex 205 ribbons with one aimed L-R over the strings at the bend and one aimed up/down at the bass strings at the tail--basically using the null of the figure 8 pattern to reduce the impact of the room. I think Front End Audio still sells the unmodded Apex 205s for $99 each.
Or if you have DPA 4061s, you can gaff tape them inside the piano and have a go at it that way.
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^let's see the pictures.
You will find this thread of interest. https://www.gearslutz.com/board/gear-shoot-outs-sound-file-comparisons-audio-tests/150891-ribbon-madness-some-comparisons.html
Spoiler: his favorite set of mics was a pair of Joly modded Apex 205 ribbons with one aimed L-R over the strings at the bend and one aimed up/down at the bass strings at the tail--basically using the null of the figure 8 pattern to reduce the impact of the room. I think Front End Audio still sells the unmodded Apex 205s for $99 each.
Or if you have DPA 4061s, you can gaff tape them inside the piano and have a go at it that way.
Sorry about the quadruple pictures. My wife hit the wrong button at the time. I was up on the balcony of the attic during the hoist, helping to guide it in.
I tried my DPA 4061s but they made my already bright piano sound harsh. So I've been using Beyer MC 930's at the curve. That's been the best sound yet.
Thanks for your suggestions.
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That's the most excitement in the 70d thread we've had in a long time.
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+T on those pics! Easily the coolest pics I've seen in AWHILE ;D
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When I was a teenager my band practiced in the detached garage of our drummer's parent's house. It was a big old house that had a baby grand in the "parlor". One time he took us up to the third floor that he called the "ballroom". Back in the day the owners of the house would throw these big soirees so they had double French doors installed on the side of the house and a extendable hoist system mounted to the inside ceiling joists. They would wheel the piano out onto the uncovered wrap around porch, rope it up to a block and tackle pulley system and raise the piano up to the third floor for formal parties. Once up to the third floor hanging outside the house, the hoist system simply retracted on ball bearing gliders (think huge drawer slides) back in to the ballroom and the piano dropped down 6 inches to rest on a reinforced platform like a miniature stage with room for a few other musicians.
They never would let us play our U2, REM and the Cure covers up there.
Back on topic......
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Very cool pictures, dogmusic. I half-expected to see Wile E. Coyote in the shots, standing right underneath the piano and waiting for it to drop on him.
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Very cool pictures, dogmusic. I half-expected to see Wile E. Coyote in the shots, standing right underneath the piano and waiting for it to drop on him.
So that's why they were called Acme Movers!
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Very cool pictures, dogmusic. I half-expected to see Wile E. Coyote in the shots, standing right underneath the piano and waiting for it to drop on him.
So that's why they were called Acme Movers!
;D Zip Zip Bang! ;D
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In the DR-70D FAQ, there is this statement...
Certain microUSB cables do not work with this unit for file transfer, even when they are known good USB 2.0 cables which work with other devices. Users have experienced the 70D abruptly dismounting from the computer and shutting down mid-transfer.
...which got me to thinking, are there any known instances of a micro-USB cable not working for providing power?
I don't plan on transferring directly from the recorder to the computer, so that will not be an issue for me. I just want to hedge against having an issue with power while recording is in process.
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In the DR-70D FAQ, there is this statement...
Certain microUSB cables do not work with this unit for file transfer, even when they are known good USB 2.0 cables which work with other devices. Users have experienced the 70D abruptly dismounting from the computer and shutting down mid-transfer.
...which got me to thinking, are there any known instances of a micro-USB cable not working for providing power?
I don't plan on transferring directly from the recorder to the computer, so that will not be an issue for me. I just want to hedge against having an issue with power while recording is in process.
If I've had USB cable issues - they were very obvious - like some cables just dont work for power. Solution: Dont use that cable.
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I picked up some cheapo usb cables from the dollar store that would recharge my tablet, but for some reason, wouldn't recharge a phone that used the same connections.
I would think you could immediately tell if the cable will or won't work to power the 70d depending on whether the screen pops up asking you if it's a storage or power connection when you turn on the 70d?
But yes, apparently not all cables actually work with all devices, apparently even if they appear to have the right connectors.
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That statement in the FAQ came from me - I don't know of anyone else who had issues. But I had some brand new USB cables from Monoprice I was trying to use to transfer, and it would not work. Every single cheap USB cable I've used since then has worked without a hiccup, so maybe it's just those cables that are bad and I should delete that statement.
Right now, I'm using these (http://www.amazon.com/Anker-5-Pack-PowerLine-Micro-USB/dp/B015XPQ5KK/ref=zg_bs_464394_33)for microUSB and they are rock-solid and very durable. Kevlar fibers running through them too, just like DPA and Schoeps cables!
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Thanks for the link Volt! I use some cheapo Left Angle Micro USB>right angle USB B cables, for like $1.20/each from China, and they have worked great so far! I just LOVE the left angle micro tip on them :)
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I just had to replace a USB cable that I used to power mine. It was very sensitive to any movement of the deck or battery. The new one that I replaced it with can handle substantial motion of either the batt or deck without any issue, in fact, I really roughly handled the batt/deck pairing and could not get it to shut off. With the other cable, it was really quite easy to cause failure.
The bad cable,... I don't have anymore, nor did it have a name branding; a generic USB cable. I'm awaiting delivery of a new replacement right angle cable. Until then I grabbed one out of my spare cable bag, and am using that until the new R.A. cable arrives.
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I just had to replace a USB cable that I used to power mine. It was very sensitive to any movement of the deck or battery. The new one that I replaced it with can handle substantial motion of either the batt or deck without any issue, in fact, I really roughly handled the batt/deck pairing and could not get it to shut off. With the other cable, it was really quite easy to cause failure.
The bad cable,... I don't have anymore, nor did it have a name branding; a generic USB cable. I'm awaiting delivery of a new replacement right angle cable. Until then I grabbed one out of my spare cable bag, and am using that until the new R.A. cable arrives.
Haha, you're funny Mok3 ;D Must be us old school tapers, because I shake the shit out of my bag/gear to see if anything funky happens, like my deck or preamp shutting down 8) I JUST did the exact same thing with my new 70d that I got today ;D I put that left angle micro tip cable in my new to me 2nd 70d, with a USB battery, and then shook it around quite violently, and NOTHING happened, meaning it held power GREAT ;D Tonedeaf had the same exact cables that I got, because I gave him one of my left angle micro>rt angle USB B cables last year, and his cable was faulty and FUCK'D him over once :P :( I felt REALLY bad about that :( But us old school tapers should know better! Test EVERYTHING out at home BEFORE you go into the field ;)
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OK, just got my 2nd 70d and 64gb PNY Elite 95MB/s Class 10 UHS-I/3[#P-SDX64U395-GE] sd card yesterday and it passed the FakeFlashTest and H2testw tests that Voltronic posted recently! Thanks again Volt 8)
Anyway, here it goes. Put my new 64gb PNY card into my new[2nd] 70d today, and BAM, immediately a Write Timeout error :( I was only running 2 channels@24/96 with Phantom power[mk4>PFA>70d] on channels 1/2! It seemed to work fine @24/44.1 though!?!?! WEIRD!!! So, I switch my PNY 64gb sd cards and put the NEW 64gb card into my old[1.5 yrs old] 70d, and the older 64gb PNY card into my NEW 70d and BAM[knock on wood lol], its working GREAT right now on BOTH decks[for almost 2 hours, with 2 channels@24/96 on BOTH decks] ;D All I did was switch sd cards in my 70d's!!! And last night, I successfully filled my 32gb PNY High 50MB/s Class 10 on my NEW 70d, so WTF ??? Works great with my OLD PNY cards I got from Amazon last year! However, I had to get my newest 64gb PNY Elite[#P-SDX64U395-GE] at eBay, because Amazon doesn't take PayPal :P Like I said though, the card passed the Fake Flash Tests and H2testw tests with flying colors, so I'm confused! But whatever, if they run without ANY problems like they are now, then I don't care, but otherwise, I'll just get a new 64gb Sandisk Extreme Pro[#SDSDXPA-064G] at B+H or Adorama! Just weird that the old sd cards work fine in the new one, but the old 70d works fine with all 3 cards, both old sd cards and the new one! The ONLY difference physically between the [2] of my 64gb PNY Elite cards, is the color of the lock mechanism, which could have changed from PNY, so I don't think the card I just got is a fake or anything, even though I went against my #1 rule and bought sd cards from eBay :P
64gb Sandisk Extreme [#SDSDXPA-064G] which is on Tascam's approved card list! Anyone else using these?
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/824149-REG/SanDisk_SDSDXPA_064G_A75_Extreme_Pro_64GB_SDHC_SDXC.html
http://www.adorama.com/idsdsdxpa64g.html
If the old 70d fills up my NEW 64gb PNY Elite card flawlessly with 2 channels@24/96, then I'll try 4 channels@24/96 with the NEW 64gb card in my OLD 70d ;D 8) I'll definitely report back my results! And please LMK if anyone else is using those 64gb Sandisk Extreme Pro[#SDSDXPA-064G] sd cards successfully!!! I don't REALLY need a 64gb SD card immediately if the new PNY doesn't work out[I'm PRAYING that it does though!!!], because I have [1] 64gb PNY High Performance 50MB/s Class 10 UHS-1 sd card and [1] 64gb PNY Elite 50MB/s Class 10 UHS-I/3 sd card! At a festie, that's 45 hours with the two cards recording 4 channels@24/44.1! I haven't needed more storage space than that in a LONG time at a festie! But like I said, I'm PRAYING that my new 64gb PNY keeps working out flawlessly in my old 70d! 8) I'll keep everyone posted!!
EDIT: I updated the firmware on my newest 70d straight from v1.01>v1.13! I wasn't supposed to do it sequentially, in order from v1.01>v1.02>v1.10>v1.11>v1.12>v1.13, was I?
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Well, that does it, the new 64gb PNY Elite card that I got from eBay keeps giving me a "Write Timeout" on BOTH of my 70d's :( I don't know if its because its from eBay or what? If the deck is just super picky about cards? I'll keep running my 32gb PNY High that I ran last night successfully in my new 70d, and see if its the cards or the deck! I don't want to try another PNY card, or ANYTHING that ISN'T on Tascam's approved card list from now on with my new 70d :P Looks like I'm getting one of those Sandisk 64gb Extreme Pro [#SDSDXPA-064G] cards whenever I get the $$ :( Anyone else using those 64gb Sandisk Extreme cards I posted links of above, flawlessly with 4 channels@24/96 ???
TIA,
Bean
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I use a PNY 64gb Elite without any problems!! You might have bought a fake of ebay. I ran 4 channels last Friday haven't finished the show, but should be up by the end of the weekend. I ran Schoeps MK41's> KCY> 60V PFA > 70d and SBD > 70d.
Well, that does it, the new 64gb PNY Elite card that I got from eBay keeps giving me a "Write Timeout" on BOTH of my 70d's :( I don't know if its because its from eBay or what? If the deck is just super picky about cards? I'll keep running my 32gb PNY High that I ran last night successfully in my new 70d, and see if its the cards or the deck! I don't want to try another PNY card, or ANYTHING that ISN'T on Tascam's approved card list from now on with my new 70d :P Looks like I'm getting one of those Sandisk 64gb Extreme Pro [#SDSDXPA-064G] cards whenever I get the $$ :( Anyone else using those 64gb Sandisk Extreme cards I posted links of above, flawlessly with 4 channels@24/96 ???
TIA,
Bean
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The tests you used are really just good for checking capacity only. EDIT: I misspoke a bit: The H2WTest utility will report speed rating, but is not going to benchmark with multiple tests like Crystal will - see below. Many fake cards on eBay and Amazon marketplace are not the advertised capacity, and that's all those tests are designed to reveal. If you're getting write timeouts, then the card you got still may be an iffy card that is the correct capacity but not the advertised speed. Such a card would still pass both of those tests. I would never buy a card from eBay; too many bad ones out there. Only buy direct from major sellers.
To really compare the cards better, format both cards with the SD Association Formatter (with the Full Overwrite option), then run Crystal Disk Mark on both of the cards and compare the results. That will start both cards on a clean slate so to speak with the SD formatter, and Crystal will benchmark the read/write rates. If they are in fact the same card, the results should be pretty close, and the new card should even be slightly better. If the new card is significantly worse, then you got ripped off.
Note that the test I'm describing is NOT a good test to see if a card is going to work well in this or any other recorder. Audio recording is writing multiple files to the card as simultaneous continuous streams, something very different than what the advertised speed rating is based on and also different what these benchmarking utilities are testing, so you can't assume a higher rated card is going to be good and a lower rated one is going to be bad. That's what recommended media lists are for. If you look at the SD Cards Performance and Testing (http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=175071.msg2167476#msg2167476) thread, you'll see where I did a test as described above on two of my cards. The old Transcend card gets absolutely annihilated by the new Sandisk on paper, yet that same Transcend is 100% reliable with 4 channels at 24/96 in the 70D.
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Yeah, like I said, the lock mechanism on ALL of my verified PNY cards are yellow, as the picture on the eBay sellers page. Well, the sd card I got has a white/clear lock mechanism! At first, I thought nothing of it, however, now I think I got ripped off :P The eBay seller had a TON of Positive feedback for the same PNY cards, so that's why I went through with the deal! I sent them a message and told them the deal, and how the lock mechanism is a diff color! Hopefully I get a refund and can buy a VERIFIED PNY card on Amazon!
Still not sure if I should try another PNY card[$25], or just get the Sandisk SDSDXPA-064G 64gb Extreme Pro[$45] on Tascam's approved list ??? There's a $20 difference! After spending thousands on gear, I'll probably splurge and get the Sandisk Extreme Pro :P ;D 8) Like I said above, I already have [1] 64gb and [1] 32gb PNY cards that are working great in my new 70d so far[knock on wood], so that's still 45 hours with 4 channels@24/44.1 at a festie! That's a typical festie for me these days, whether its 3-4 days long! So Im not in a huge rush, although as always, the quicker the better :)
Good news is, it doesn't seem to be the Tascam 70D 8)
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Oh and Volt, I have Crystal Disk and every other program you posted recently, but when I tried to use Crystal Disk 5, I didn't know WTF to do? What settings? It confuses the crap outta me lol ;D I see I hit the "start" on the top left column, but Im unsure what settings to do? Also, how long does it takew to complete each card wityh Crystal Disk 5?
Sorry for all of the Q's! I REALLY appreciate all of your help, and everyone else letting me know their PNY Elite cards work just fine!
What confuses me about the eBay sale, is that the seller had a TON of positive feedback for the exact same card ??? I did go against my #1 rule and bought storage media off of eBay, so its my own damn fault! I would've just bought from the exact same seller on Amazon that I used last year, but FN Amazon doesn't accpet PayPal, so I figured "What the hell?" I think I got burned! I'm at least getting a refund or I'll cause some trouble with eBay/PayPal!
Still unsure if I should buy the same 64gb PNY card from Amazon like I did last year, or another trusted site? Or if I should just cough up the extra $20 and get the "Approved" 64gb Sandisk Extreme Pro[#SDSDXPA-064G] ???
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OK, I misspoke a bit - H2Test will check speed, but not in a very thorough way. Crystal is a drive benchmarking tool that does several different read/write tests and gives you more information. Here's how I use it:
Test count of 5, size 1GB, and then choose the target drive. Hit the ALL button on the top-left. It should take no more than 5-10 minutes. If you raise those settings to higher numbers, all it's going to do is test the same thing more times and over a larger area of the card, respectively but I don't think either is necessary for what we're doing here.
When it finishes the tests in both columns, go to File > Save and this will generate a text file with detailed results. Then do the same thing with your other card, and compare the results side by side to see what you get.
Running the SD Association Formatter with Full Overwrite first on both cards really is essential though, because it's the only way you know that the entire card is being formatted correctly. The 70D's internal formatting may have been suspect in earlier firmware may have been suspect, according to what the latest update notes say. And the one time I did have a Write Timeout, it borked the entire filesystem on the card and I believe even damaged the partitions, such that it would not even be recognized in the 70D at all until I did the SD Formatter in my PC.
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Volt, thanks for all of the info! Unfortunately, I cant get Crystal Disk to go past the "Seq Q32T1" Write speeds :( It does all 4 of the Read columns on the left, but after it finishes the "Seq Q32T1" on the "Write" side, it just freezes my PC like nothing else :( I'm thinking that maybe my SD card reader is so outdated that it isn't able to write fast enough to register in the tests ??? Is that a possibility?
And Ive had CD 5 on "random" AND "0x0 Fill" and no matter WHAT I DO, it freezes my PC :( Even put the test count to 1 and the test size down to 100MB
TIA,
Bean
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Volt, thanks for all of the info! Unfortunately, I cant get Crystal Disk to go past the "Seq Q32T1" Write speeds :( It does all 4 of the Read columns on the left, but after it finishes the "Seq Q32T1" on the "Write" side, it just freezes my PC like nothing else :( I'm thinking that maybe my SD card reader is so outdated that it isn't able to write fast enough to register in the tests ??? Is that a possibility?
And Ive had CD 5 on "random" AND "0x0 Fill" and no matter WHAT I DO, it freezes my PC :( Even put the test count to 1 and the test size down to 100MB
TIA,
Bean
Same behavior on your known good card, or is this only on your new / suspect card? Either way, if you did a format first like I described, then I'm not sure why it's hanging on the write tests. I suppose it's possible that you SD reader is to blame. I have 3 of them, and if I don't use the newer one I get much slower speeds reading and writing using the same card (just anecdotally what I notice through regular use; not tested with Crystal or any other software).
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Sounds very much like Bean needs to return that card to the seller for a refund if that is an option.
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Bean:
I don't know why you're insisting on tempting fate. Use one of the approved cards from Tascam's list!!!
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Just the rush of living dangerously by using an unapproved card!
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^ ^^ ^^^ Yeah, I have to agree it's probably a much better idea to just return that card and get an approved one, but from a major / authorized dealer so you know for sure their stock is legit. I was trying to help you with the test procedure, but it's probably going to confirm what we already expect - that it's no good. No point wasting your time any further.
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Just the rush of living dangerously by using an unapproved card!
hey man, for some of us - that's the only buzz left!!! :P
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Bean:
I don't know why you're insisting on tempting fate. Use one of the approved cards from Tascam's list!!!
I know, I'm going to definitely go with that 64gb Sandisk Extreme Pro! It is ONLY $20 more :P But I have used PNY cards for about a year now with flawless results[on BOTH of my 70d's], so I just wanted to stick with what was already working! I'm POSITIVE that if I got another PNY card, but this time from Amazon[since PNY sells the cards directly on Amazon! No chance for a fake!], Id have ZERO problems! But like you guys said, why tempt fate? Even if a new PNY card only fucks up ONCE, that's one too many times for me ;) 8) Might as well use an approved card and be DONE with it, because I do not want to deal with returning ANOTHER PNY card :P ;D
Thanks for the advice guys, and confirming my beliefs to get that Sandisk Extreme Pro card :)
P.S.-Sounds like I need a newer generation card reader too! I think that's the issue with Crystal Disk and why it won't even finish the writing tests! I'll probably grab one today or tomorrow, just so I know my cards can read as fast as they can when transferring shows to my PC :) I'll probably just hit up Wal-Mart or somewhere easy!
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This article on cards is worth reading. http://thewirecutter.com/reviews/best-sd-card/
They did a test to see how fast cards will record photos shot in burst mode by recording the shutter and comparing the waveforms. They are recommending a Samsung pro + (plus) card. It isn't on the tascam list to my knowledge, but I wonder why a card like that wouldn't work in the 70d?
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This article on cards is worth reading. http://thewirecutter.com/reviews/best-sd-card/
They did a test to see how fast cards will record photos shot in burst mode by recording the shutter and comparing the waveforms. They are recommending a Samsung pro + (plus) card. It isn't on the tascam list to my knowledge, but I wonder why a card like that wouldn't work in the 70d?
Maybe the cards trying to writre faster than the stream getting written to it ???
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This article on cards is worth reading. http://thewirecutter.com/reviews/best-sd-card/
They did a test to see how fast cards will record photos shot in burst mode by recording the shutter and comparing the waveforms. They are recommending a Samsung pro + (plus) card. It isn't on the tascam list to my knowledge, but I wonder why a card like that wouldn't work in the 70d?
It very well might work, but Tascam didn't test it so we don't know. Unless someone is feeling lucky...
Either way, burst photos are writing to a card in a very different way than audio recording. Manufacturers optimize performance for this kind of data burst writing and that's what the "headline" speed is likely based on. Multiple continuous streams (as in audio recording) may or may not be a priority, so the performance could be quite different.
The other thing is that good cameras will have a large and fast buffer for high resolution photos and HD video. A dedicated audio recorder probably has a smaller buffer, which would make the performance of the card itself even more a factor. Taking that point further for this recorder, when the card issues started up a few of us suggested that the 70D may have less buffer memory than other 4-channel recorders, and that causes it to only be compatible with a smaller number of cards. No way to know if that's really happening here unless someone wants to tear down a bunch of recorders and compare the memory chips on a bunch of different recorders. That is, if it even uses a separate memory chip; it might have buffer memory as part of another chip package.
An interesting point from that article is that they used a USB 3 reader for testing since newer cards can exceed USB 2 speeds.
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But like I said, I'm PRAYING that my new 64gb PNY keeps working out flawlessly in my old 70d! 8) I'll keep everyone posted!!
Keep praying! And praying, and praying and praying... Until Tascam lists it on the approved list, you'll be needing to pray continuously that this card won't fail soon.
Just the rush of living dangerously by using an unapproved card!
hey man, for some of us - that's the only buzz left!!! :P
Perhaps you should consider sobriety!? ???
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This article on cards is worth reading. http://thewirecutter.com/reviews/best-sd-card/
They did a test to see how fast cards will record photos shot in burst mode by recording the shutter and comparing the waveforms. They are recommending a Samsung pro + (plus) card. It isn't on the tascam list to my knowledge, but I wonder why a card like that wouldn't work in the 70d?
It very well might work, but Tascam didn't test it so we don't know. Unless someone is feeling lucky...
Either way, burst photos are writing to a card in a very different way than audio recording. Manufacturers optimize performance for this kind of data burst writing and that's what the "headline" speed is likely based on. Multiple continuous streams (as in audio recording) may or may not be a priority, so the performance could be quite different.
The other thing is that good cameras will have a large and fast buffer for high resolution photos and HD video. A dedicated audio recorder probably has a smaller buffer, which would make the performance of the card itself even more a factor. Taking that point further for this recorder, when the card issues started up a few of us suggested that the 70D may have less buffer memory than other 4-channel recorders, and that causes it to only be compatible with a smaller number of cards. No way to know if that's really happening here unless someone wants to tear down a bunch of recorders and compare the memory chips on a bunch of different recorders. That is, if it even uses a separate memory chip; it might have buffer memory as part of another chip package.
An interesting point from that article is that they used a USB 3 reader for testing since newer cards can exceed USB 2 speeds.
^I didn't see it mentioned in the Wirecutter link, but another review of the Samsung Pro Plus card mentioned "large block transfers" as an evaluation criteria, but didn't explain what that is. There has to be a common technical reason why some cards made it on the approved list but other cards didn't. It's a puzzlement to me why a card may be fine for recording 4k video, but may not work in the 70d? If we understood what that reason is, then perhaps we could intelligently choose from a wider ranger of cards for the 70d than the approved list without resorting to rolling the dice.
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On sale for $200 after coupon right now:
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=177134.0 (http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=177134.0)
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SD card speed ratings are based on continuous write speeds. Most cards should be able to do audio, even 4-channel 24/96, with absolutely no problem. I would also point out that if the card reader plays a prominent role in the benchmarking of cards, then those results (and tests) are meaningless...
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SD card speed ratings are based on continuous write speeds. Most cards should be able to do audio, even 4-channel 24/96, with absolutely no problem. I would also point out that if the card reader plays a prominent role in the benchmarking of cards, then those results (and tests) are meaningless...
The card reader should only be a factor if it's a bottleneck - that is, its maximum transfer rate is slower than the card can go. The same goes for the bus it's plugged into (USB 2.0 vs. 3.0).
Clarification to the bold statement above:
Speed Ratings are based on the maximum burst data read/write rate, which would come into play mainly in photo applications like the test 2manyrocks linked. That is going to be the max read speed; the write speed will be much slower.
Speed Class is a minimum continuous data rate, and is usually close to the card's write speed. So this means for audio (and video) recording, the Class is much more relevant than the Rated Speed. You may have meant that anyway, but people use these terms interchangeably sometimes and don't realize they're different things.
http://kb.sandisk.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/1996/~/difference-between-speed-class,-uhs-speed-class,-and-speed-ratings (http://kb.sandisk.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/1996/~/difference-between-speed-class,-uhs-speed-class,-and-speed-ratings)
https://www.sdcard.org/developers/overview/speed_class/ (https://www.sdcard.org/developers/overview/speed_class/)
Now the question is: why should some Class UHS-I or UHS-3 cards not work for audio, when on paper they should be able to handle the data rate easily? Specific models in a series work; others do not. Clearly, there's more going on here than the factors we're discussing, but relatively little info out there testing cards in audio recorders. All of the tests you see are for photo and video. As it stands right now, we have to rely on manufacturer recommended media lists - that's your only safe bet.
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^ I meant whatever metric is listed on the card. "Speed Class designates minimum writing performance to record video. The Speed Classes defined by the SD Association are Class 2, 4, 6 and 10.", per sdcard.org. Those. There is really no question as to why some cards don't work for audio in the DR70D, which is that there is a design flaw n the recorder. These cards seem to work fine for audio in most any other recorder.
As for the reader, a couple of people posted that they noticed decreased performance with some, which suggests that they are slower than the card (or other reader)...
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I'm probably going to answer my own question while asking it,.....
I know that the unit requires 1 amp of power, or 5 watts. Is this sufficient to run at full compliment of phantom power, full usage?
Or would I be better off running at the 2 amp battery pack output?
FWIW, I'm running the USB Power Bank battery.
I ask, because the new USB cable fits better to the 1 amp output on the battery.
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Here's how I understand it: The 1 vs. 2 amp outputs on a battery means that's the current that output can supply, but only if that current is demanded. Something attached to the higher amperage output has to be "asking" for that much current for you to get an actual 2A electrical flow. For instance, recent phones will pull 2A to charge off of that output.
For the 70D, I don't think there's any harm in connecting it to a 2A battery output, but probably no benefit either. I only ever use the 1A output on my battery, even when phantom powering 4 mics.
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Thanks.
I've always used the 2 amp output, even in transferring cassettes to digi-realm. But, as I said, ergonomically, the fit to the battery is better to the 1amp output; less bends.
thanks, Volt.
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Thanks.
I've always used the 2 amp output, even in transferring cassettes to digi-realm. But, as I said, ergonomically, the fit to the battery is better to the 1amp output; less bends.
thanks, Volt.
I actually have the same battery, but the cable I'm using needs 2 bends, set up exactly like groovon has shown here (http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=173960.msg2157546#msg2157546). Which cable are you using? I haven't been able to find a left angle microUSB that also has a right-angle full-size USB. The reverse of that is more common, and I have another short cable that is right-angle on both ends which solves the double-bend but interferes with XLR 4.
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This cable:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/141137879899
It was from a list that you posted when I suggested that an earlier cable never made it to me. When I tried to get it again, the item was no longer available.
I didn't know what to search for, and you provided me with the links. It was the first one on the list.
If I have the 1amp output from the battery below the #4 XLR, the cable runs towards the front of the deck, and turns in a U-shaped bend that extends just slightly wide of the red carry handle (3/8->1/2" wide, beyond the handle), and turns back to the USB input on the deck.
I can make it "S" turn, and keep it from extending to the handle, but I'd rather have less stress on the cable.
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I found it in this post of yours: http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=175623.msg2181267#msg218
Tomorrow night, and a few other nights this weekend, will be my first efforts with the deck, running P48v to mics. All of my other efforts have been via self powered mics. So, i'm hoping for the best.
It fits as per the image below:
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^ HA! So it's the same cable I have, but your battery is in the opposite orientation as I have mine in, which solves the double-bend. Nice. 8)
Here are some pics I posted to the GAKables thread (http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=133186.msg2182080#msg2182080) showing the new cables I'm using with the 70D (and other stuff).
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I asked mok3 this via PM..but what battery is that you have? Also did ted make that battery cable? how much?
If you can link me to that battery it would be a big help.
Thanks!
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Chomps,
It is the Generic Power Bank battery, from eBay:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/20000mAh-UltraThin-Dual-USB-Portable-Power-Bank-External-Battery-Backup-Charger-/331541674213
And this cable:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/141137879899
Volt gets the credit. They are from his FAQ thread, found on page one of this thread.
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Purchased both...Thanks so much for the heads up.
How long does that batterty typically last?
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I only record for maybe an a hour and a half in a run. I've only rarely seen 3 of 4 meter lights. More typically, the meter lights (LED), never show drain down. I've heard suggestions of 10 hours?
Tonight will be my first effort with the phantom power on to the mics (I bought some new Line Audio sub-cards; first time using them).
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Actually, credit to groovon who I think was the first to post this battery and cable, which is how I found them. ;D
The longest I've gone continuously is 4-5 hours with 4 channels of 48V to my CM3s and X-Qs, and the battery still shows 75% charge. But those indicators are as rough as can be, and my mics are all fairly low current draw. m0k3, you should be able to go over 10 hours with just the CM3s, easy. With only 1 pair of mics, I may only charge the battery after every other concert.
It's worth noting that the 20,000 mAh figure on this battery is probably wishful thinking at best given its price and, um, provenance. Maybe someone with more thorough knowledge of batteries can comment as to how legit that figure may or may not be. That said, it is a great battery, and feels well made. The fact that it's slim and mounts right under the recorder are big pluses. I'll be buying another one for insurance in case it ever dies. It definitely lasts longer than my RavPower battery I have listed in the FAQ - that one is also good, but now relegated to cell phone backup.
One last thing I discovered by accident about the Power Bank: it has a built-in LED flashlight, just hold down the power button. Useful in a pinch when you don't have anything else.
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FYI: Here's the best price I've found for a card on Tascam's Tested Media List: Sandisk Extreme SDSDXL-032G for $16.99 (http://www.buydig.com/shop/product/SDSDSDXL032G/Sandisk-SDSDXL-032G-Class-10-UHS-U3-SCC-Memory-Card-Up-to-6040-MBs-Read-Write-Speed)
edit: I wish I had scrolled down on that link before I bought one. Their are even better deals on 2-packs & 3-packs. :facepalm:
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FYI: Here's the best price I've found for a card on Tascam's Tested Media List: Sandisk Extreme SDSDXL-032G for $16.99 (http://www.buydig.com/shop/product/SDSDSDXL032G/Sandisk-SDSDXL-032G-Class-10-UHS-U3-SCC-Memory-Card-Up-to-6040-MBs-Read-Write-Speed)
edit: I wish I had scrolled down on that link before I bought one. Their are even better deals on 2-packs & 3-packs. :facepalm:
Thanks for the heads up. I just ordered a 2 pack.
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I was able to cancel my order and then reorder a 2-pack as well. I don't think I've ever dealt with BuyDig.com but they seem to have good customer service.
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Fwiw, the three pack was unavailable.
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Fwiw, the three pack was unavailable.
There are also 2-packs (http://www.amazon.com/Sandisk-2-Pack-SDSDXL-Class-Memory/dp/B01DMXX9PY/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1460126846&sr=8-1&keywords=SDSDXL-032G) and 3-packs (http://www.amazon.com/Sandisk-3-Pack-SDSDXL-Class-Memory/dp/B01DMYAW1M/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1460126846&sr=8-2&keywords=SDSDXL-032G) of the same card on Amazon from a different seller.
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FYI: Here's the best price I've found for a card on Tascam's Tested Media List: Sandisk Extreme SDSDXL-032G for $16.99 (http://www.buydig.com/shop/product/SDSDSDXL032G/Sandisk-SDSDXL-032G-Class-10-UHS-U3-SCC-Memory-Card-Up-to-6040-MBs-Read-Write-Speed)
Make sure you test those cards well if you purchase them from BuyDig.com. They are not authorized sellers of SanDisk SD cards. I bought some SanDisk cards from BuyDig several years ago at a price that seemed to good to be true and they turned out to be counterfeits. They may have cleaned up their act since then but caveat emptor.
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FYI: Here's the best price I've found for a card on Tascam's Tested Media List: Sandisk Extreme SDSDXL-032G for $16.99 (http://www.buydig.com/shop/product/SDSDSDXL032G/Sandisk-SDSDXL-032G-Class-10-UHS-U3-SCC-Memory-Card-Up-to-6040-MBs-Read-Write-Speed)
Make sure you test those cards well if you purchase them from BuyDig.com. They are not authorized sellers of SanDisk SD cards. I bought some SanDisk cards from BuyDig several years ago at a price that seemed to good to be true and they turned out to be counterfeits. They may have cleaned up their act since then but caveat emptor.
Well that fucking sucks. How do you find out who is/isn't an authorized Sandisk seller?
I have a Kingston card that is not on the list that I've tested for hours with no issues. Should I just stick with that card?
I only bought these Sandisk cards because they were on Tascam's list. I didn't need any more SD cards...just wanted to be able to record with peace of mind since these were on the list.
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Their website explicitly states that they are a Sandisk authorized reseller.
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Well that fucking sucks. How do you find out who is/isn't an authorized Sandisk seller?
https://www.sandisk.com/about/where-to-buy (https://www.sandisk.com/about/where-to-buy)
Region "North America", country "United States of America", "Online Stores" (I checked under the other types of stores as well and didn't see BuyDig listed)
Their website explicitly states that they are a Sandisk authorized reseller.
Unless I've overlooked something, Sandisk's own website doesn't have BuyDig listed as an authorized seller.
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That apparently is because of a not particularly obvious corporate relationship.
Beach Camera is listed as an Sandisk authorized seller and they are part of the same corporate group as BuyDig - Beach Trading Company.
http://beachtr.com/
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^ I learn something new every day. I guess they have "cleaned up their act." ;D
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FYI: Here's the best price I've found for a card on Tascam's Tested Media List: Sandisk Extreme SDSDXL-032G for $16.99 (http://www.buydig.com/shop/product/SDSDSDXL032G/Sandisk-SDSDXL-032G-Class-10-UHS-U3-SCC-Memory-Card-Up-to-6040-MBs-Read-Write-Speed)
Make sure you test those cards well if you purchase them from BuyDig.com. They are not authorized sellers of SanDisk SD cards. I bought some SanDisk cards from BuyDig several years ago at a price that seemed to good to be true and they turned out to be counterfeits. They may have cleaned up their act since then but caveat emptor.
Never bought from BuyDig, but I think this card may be sketchy. If you search for the exact model number on the recommended media list, SDSDXL-032G, you'll get links to lots of Asian market retailers, but zero North American ones. This is true for a few others as well. The following cards on the 70D list that only show Asian sellers in search results are:
SDSDXL-064G
SDSDXL-032G
SDSDXL-016G
SDSDUP-008G
I would stay away from any of the above cards. All of the other ones are stocked by places like B&H, BestBuy, etc. and too many people have been burned by fakes. I had an email exchange with SanDisk customer service a while back asking about what I was finding with searching these model numbers, and they did confirm that certain model numbers are only sold in certain markets.
Why would Tascam have a card only intended for the Asian market on their media list? Because TEAC Japan is doing all of the card testing and generating these recommended media lists, so the list we're reading is intended for consumers worldwide.
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Nice pics fellas! I need to snap some pics of my cable setup too! Ive been using those left angle micro usb cables for well over a year now, and LOVE them! I dont see myself using any other USB cables :)
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FYI: Here's the best price I've found for a card on Tascam's Tested Media List: Sandisk Extreme SDSDXL-032G for $16.99 (http://www.buydig.com/shop/product/SDSDSDXL032G/Sandisk-SDSDXL-032G-Class-10-UHS-U3-SCC-Memory-Card-Up-to-6040-MBs-Read-Write-Speed)
Make sure you test those cards well if you purchase them from BuyDig.com. They are not authorized sellers of SanDisk SD cards. I bought some SanDisk cards from BuyDig several years ago at a price that seemed to good to be true and they turned out to be counterfeits. They may have cleaned up their act since then but caveat emptor.
Never bought from BuyDig, but I think this card may be sketchy. If you search for the exact model number on the recommended media list, SDSDXL-032G, you'll get links to lots of Asian market retailers, but zero North American ones. This is true for a few others as well. The following cards on the 70D list that only show Asian sellers in search results are:
SDSDXL-064G
SDSDXL-032G
SDSDXL-016G
SDSDUP-008G
I would stay away from any of the above cards. All of the other ones are stocked by places like B&H, BestBuy, etc. and too many people have been burned by fakes. I had an email exchange with SanDisk customer service a while back asking about what I was finding with searching these model numbers, and they did confirm that certain model numbers are only sold in certain markets.
Why would Tascam have a card only intended for the Asian market on their media list? Because TEAC Japan is doing all of the card testing and generating these recommended media lists, so the list we're reading is intended for consumers worldwide.
I got the cards yesterday from Buydig. Both formatted fine, and seem to be working well.
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I've owned the DR-70D since late January and haven't had a single issue. I recently recorded about 25 hours over 3 days at Wanee without a glitch. I use a Panasonic Gold 32GB card (SKU: PCSDUC132AK MFR: RP-SDUC32GAK) which is on Tascam's approved card list. I keep the firmware updated to whatever's current.
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Thanks for the info Craig :) I just ordered a 64gb Sandisk Extreme Pro [SDSDXPA-064G-X46] from Amazon today, which is on Tascam's approved list :)
http://www.amazon.com/SanDisk-Extreme-SDSDXPA-064G-X46-Flash-Memory/dp/B007NDL54C
I'll obviously run the new 64gb SD Card for WEEKS before the first festie of the season Memorial Day Weekend :) I should have the Sandisk SD Card within the next week, so I'll DEFINITELY be reporting back about how my [2] 70D's like their new Sandisk Extreme Pro SD Card :)
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Thanks for the info Craig :) I just ordered a 64gb Sandisk Extreme Pro [SDSDXPA-064G-X46] from Amazon today, which is on Tascam's approved list :)
http://www.amazon.com/SanDisk-Extreme-SDSDXPA-064G-X46-Flash-Memory/dp/B007NDL54C
I'll obviously run the new 64gb SD Card for WEEKS before the first festie of the season Memorial Day Weekend :) I should have the Sandisk SD Card within the next week, so I'll DEFINITELY be reporting back about how my [2] 70D's like their new Sandisk Extreme Pro SD Card :)
Make sure you run it for hours at a time. My first card that wasn't on the approved listed worked fine...until our third set where I was greeted to an error when I was starting to pack up. Set it up the way you are going to want...data rate, number of channels, limiter, etc. and let it run over night and all day.
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Thanks for the info Craig :) I just ordered a 64gb Sandisk Extreme Pro [SDSDXPA-064G-X46] from Amazon today, which is on Tascam's approved list :)
http://www.amazon.com/SanDisk-Extreme-SDSDXPA-064G-X46-Flash-Memory/dp/B007NDL54C
I'll obviously run the new 64gb SD Card for WEEKS before the first festie of the season Memorial Day Weekend :) I should have the Sandisk SD Card within the next week, so I'll DEFINITELY be reporting back about how my [2] 70D's like their new Sandisk Extreme Pro SD Card :)
Make sure you run it for hours at a time. My first card that wasn't on the approved listed worked fine...until our third set where I was greeted to an error when I was starting to pack up. Set it up the way you are going to want...data rate, number of channels, limiter, etc. and let it run over night and all day.
Haha you have no clue lol ;D I'm as OCD as they come, and I'm dead serious when I say that it will be tested almost 24/7 for the 4 weeks leading up to the Mem Day festie I'm doing 8)
BTW Ballistic, what firmware were you running when you got an error? Was it a "Timeout Error"? Also, the Sandisk Extreme Pro I bought today and linked above IS on Tascam's approved media list, so I'm really hoping for the best with this Sandisk card! Then I'll just stick the Sandisk Extreme Pro in my 70D #2 and leave my PNY cards with 70D #1, so I'm hoping I get nothing but flawless runtimes :)
I will obviously be testing the new 64gb SanDisk Extreme Pro sd card I just bought in BOTH of my 70D's, and I will DEF report back my findings :)
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LOL, OK F.O Bean...you have a good plan. You are worse than me as far as OCD goes :). With stuff like this, you can't be over prepared.
I bought my 70D about 6 weeks ago. I'm using whatever firmware was current at the time. I think it was a timeout error...timeout writing to file or something like that. It happened with 2 different 128 GB PNY cards I had.
I'm using the 128GB suggested Sandisk Extreme Pro card with no trouble so far. In case you haven't read back, I use it to record my duo direct out of our mixer. We play 3 sets, each set being between 50 and 60 minutes. I will stop and restart it between sets. I also record our rehearsals. I have recorded 2 or 3 rehearsals and 2 or 3 gigs so far with no trouble. Before getting the supported card, it failed on me at a gig and at a rehearsal. Overnight tests would fail also. It was pretty consistent.
I also set up an HD camcorder on a tripod to record video. It's ridiculous how easy it is to fully record performances in high quality today...all digitally. No tapes to archive :).
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How are you guys going to determine if there's a problem with that card? The only way I recognized a card issue (back before the approved card list) was on playback, when I heard pops on one recording and some other funky anomaly on another.
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How are you guys going to determine if there's a problem with that card? The only way I recognized a card issue (back before the approved card list) was on playback, when I heard pops on one recording and some other funky anomaly on another.
That's a scary failure mode...tough to catch. I identified a problem when in the midst of recording I got a file write error. This would occur in an hour, 2 hours, 3 hours...it varied.
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Scary, and sucked. It was only 2ch, and everyone at the time was suggesting it was a 4ch thing
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LOL, OK F.O Bean...you have a good plan. You are worse than me as far as OCD goes :). With stuff like this, you can't be over prepared.
I bought my 70D about 6 weeks ago. I'm using whatever firmware was current at the time. I think it was a timeout error...timeout writing to file or something like that. It happened with 2 different 128 GB PNY cards I had.
I'm using the 128GB suggested Sandisk Extreme Pro card with no trouble so far. In case you haven't read back, I use it to record my duo direct out of our mixer. We play 3 sets, each set being between 50 and 60 minutes. I will stop and restart it between sets. I also record our rehearsals. I have recorded 2 or 3 rehearsals and 2 or 3 gigs so far with no trouble. Before getting the supported card, it failed on me at a gig and at a rehearsal. Overnight tests would fail also. It was pretty consistent.
I also set up an HD camcorder on a tripod to record video. It's ridiculous how easy it is to fully record performances in high quality today...all digitally. No tapes to archive :).
Ahh that's right! Forgot about that and that was you lol! I was going to get a 128gb PNY Elite, since my 32gb/64gb PNY cards worked great and still do! But when I saw your failures with the 128gb PNY Elite, I decided I better do what you did, and just shell out the extra $20 and got a Sandisk Extreme Pro, just like you did, except I got a 64gb card and not the 128gb like you did ;) I should have my 64gb SanDisk Extreme Pro by this coming Monday, so like I said, I will DEF report back about my tests and any issues that might arise[hoping/praying that they DON'T :)] :)
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Scary, and sucked. It was only 2ch, and everyone at the time was suggesting it was a 4ch thing
I had that same problem recently when I got a FAKE 64gb PNY Elite from ebay ;) 2 channel OR 4 channel @ 24/96, I kept getting a "Write Timeout" error! At 24/44.1 it ran fine, but I only tested it for a couple of hours! Hopefully if everyone keeps sticking with Tascam's approved cards, that these problems and issues go away completely, just like they SHOULD :)
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OK, just got my 64gb SanDisk Extreme Pro [SDSDXPA-064G] SD Card today in the mail, and I've already formatted it[ERASE Format, which didn't take more than 1 minute surprisingly] and its already recording in my 70d, with all 4 channels @24/96[MIC IN w Phantom on chan 1/2 and LINE IN on chan 3/4]! So I'll let yinz know if I run into any problems! I'm PRAYING that this card works flawlessly, since its on Tascam's approved card list 8)
EDIT: Well, I filled the new 64gb Sandisk Extreme Pro ONCE already, 15hrs:25mins roughly! Opened the WAVS in WL 6.11 and everything looked great! Getting ready to fill the card again! I just did an ERASE FORMAT and started recording again[4 channels@24/96, MIC IN/Phantom on 1/2 and LINE IN on 3/4] :)
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On sale for $222 right now - lowest price in quite a while. (Thanks, hoppedup!)
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=177476.0 (http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=177476.0)
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OK, filled my new 64gb SanDisk Extreme Pro SD Card up a 2nd time FLAWLESSLY, and filling it up a 3rd time now 8) I ran 4 channels[WAV@24/96, MIC IN/Phantom on 1/2 and LINE IN on 3/4]! I'm trying BWAV this time around just to try, with all of the other settings the same :) I am pretty satisfied so far and can rest a little easier now that I know this card works great 8) That said, I'm filling it up a few more times before my 1st festie of the year in 3 weeks :)
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OK, filled my new 64gb SanDisk Extreme Pro SD Card up a 2nd time FLAWLESSLY, and filling it up a 3rd time now 8) I ran 4 channels[WAV@24/96, MIC IN/Phantom on 1/2 and LINE IN on 3/4]! I'm trying BWAV this time around just to try, with all of the other settings the same :) I am pretty satisfied so far and can rest a little easier now that I know this card works great 8) That said, I'm filling it up a few more times before my 1st festie of the year in 3 weeks :)
Sounds like you got yourself a winner! Great to hear! It's a great recorder...when paired with a memory card it likes.
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OK, filled my new 64gb SanDisk Extreme Pro SD Card up a 2nd time FLAWLESSLY, and filling it up a 3rd time now 8) I ran 4 channels[WAV@24/96, MIC IN/Phantom on 1/2 and LINE IN on 3/4]! I'm trying BWAV this time around just to try, with all of the other settings the same :) I am pretty satisfied so far and can rest a little easier now that I know this card works great 8) That said, I'm filling it up a few more times before my 1st festie of the year in 3 weeks :)
Sounds like you got yourself a winner! Great to hear! It's a great recorder...when paired with a memory card it likes.
Exactly! Now maybe more tapers will realize this is a great deck, especially for the $$, since once you get an SD card it likes, then its a SOLID deck :)
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I ran the DR-70D this past weekend for the first time. Very easy deck to use. I also ran my R-44. Very happy with the way the 70D internal Pres sound.
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I ran the DR-70D this past weekend for the first time. Very easy deck to use. I also ran my R-44. Very happy with the way the 70D internal Pres sound.
Great to hear Brian :) It is VERY easy to use, and just has what you need, instead of a bunch of useless menu options to sort through 8)
And I ran my new 64gb SanDisk Extreme Pro SD Card in my 2nd 70d for the 3rd time flawlessly, completely filling up the card! This time I did all [4 channels@24/96 MIC IN/Phantom on 1/2 and LINE IN on 3/4], but this time in BWAV[Broadcast WAV] files instead of the standard WAV files, just to see if it could handle it, and how my post processing liked the newer BWAV files! Well, it wrote the BWAV files flawlessly too, so I trust my new card/70d faithfully at this point :) I dont want to jinx myself, but at this point, and with two different 70d's, it is a VERY solid deck IMO! I have recorded hundreds of hours of TV alone with the two decks to test their reliability and to cycle/test battery runtimes and whatnot, and with an SD card it likes, its never done me wrong **knock on wood** ;D
Fluff mode off >:D 8) Sorry, just cant help myself, I LOVE this deck! Its everything I have ever wanted[minus a couple of things] in a small, 4 channel deck!
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Also, after trying numerous MicroSD/SD cards in my 1st 70d last year, and now using the new 70d with my new SanDisk EP SD card, the 70d seems to do the ERASE FORMAT, VERY quickly, when it has a card that it seems to like! My old PNY Elite from last year do the Erase Format pretty fast, but my new 64gb SanDisk Extreme Pro in my newest 70d, well it takes LESS than a minute to complete the whole ERASE FORMAT 8)
Last year when I tried every card that I had[my M10 Micro SD cards mainly], the 70d took FOREVER to Erase Format a few Micro SD Cards that I used for my M10s! And subsequently, those were the cards that the 70d DIDN'T like, and had weird glitches when I did try to record to them! So if you have a card in your 70d that is taking longer than 10 minutes to ERASE FORMAT, then I would CERTAINLY test that card in front of the TV before I went "live" with it ;) Obviously, some of that super fast speed is due to my SD card being brand new, but I don't see it taking longer than a few minutes, even after owning and running the SD card for awhile :) My [2] PNY Elite SD Cards finish the ERASE FORMAT pretty quickly too! About a few minutes MAX for the 32gb and about 5 minutes MAX for the 64gb PNY cards :)
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I'm sure no one cares at this point but I just recorded my first and last show with the DR-70D.
Facts:
- current firmware
- card from approved media list (erase formatted prior to the show...tested for roughly 16 consecutive hours with no issues prior to the show.)
- battery that others have used successfully (and had plenty of juice when the recorder decided to stop recording)
- 2 channel, 24/44.1 with phantom on channels 1 & 2
-> recording just stopped after about 45 minutes...recorder powered off by itself while the battery was perfectly fine (recorder powered right back on after I discovered that it had turned off)
Fuck it. I don't have the patience for this shit. Anyone with more patience than me wants this thing, send me an offer. I'll throw in the battery, battery cable, a card, and a hard case.
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Bad USB cable?
I just had to replace one, due to very similar description.
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Bad USB cable?
I just had to replace one, due to very similar description.
I've had one cable that wouldn't work also - seemed to work ok for data, but not power...
Another related gotcha is - some USB batteries want to be "on" when you turn on the DR-70D.
Otherwise the deck won't see the battery, and you won't get the "BUS POWER" message at startup - resulting in the deck being powered by internals...leading to shorter runtimes.
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Bad USB cable?
I just had to replace one, due to very similar description.
I've had one cable that wouldn't work also - seemed to work ok for data, but not power...
Another related gotcha is - some USB batteries want to be "on" when you turn on the DR-70D.
Otherwise the deck won't see the battery, and you won't get the "BUS POWER" message at startup - resulting in the deck being powered by internals...leading to shorter runtimes.
Had this problem while doing a software update on a Garmin GPS - it would start the update and then shut down. Replaced USB cable with one that had less resistance on the power carrying wires. The wire size of the USB cable used first was barely sufficient for 100mA USB load...
I have an USB powerpack that would shut down when powering a DR-44WL - recording on internal mics the recorder would draw less current than the auto shut off of the powerpack requires - most modern USB power packs have this feature now.
So - use a short, fat USB cable specified for charging. Hint: if the wire diameter is small, there cannot be very much copper inside...
Greetings,
Rainer
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I'm sure no one cares at this point but I just recorded my first and last show with the DR-70D.
Facts:
- current firmware
- card from approved media list (erase formatted prior to the show...tested for roughly 16 consecutive hours with no issues prior to the show.)
- battery that others have used successfully (and had plenty of juice when the recorder decided to stop recording)
- 2 channel, 24/44.1 with phantom on channels 1 & 2
-> recording just stopped after about 45 minutes...recorder powered off by itself while the battery was perfectly fine (recorder powered right back on after I discovered that it had turned off)
Fuck it. I don't have the patience for this shit. Anyone with more patience than me wants this thing, send me an offer. I'll throw in the battery, battery cable, a card, and a hard case.
That's VERY troublesome to hear :( Especially after my good luck running new SD Cards/Batteries in front of my TV for MANY hours with both of my 70d's, though I haven't ran my newest 70d "live" yet :)
Bad USB cable?
I just had to replace one, due to very similar description.
Bad USB cable?
I just had to replace one, due to very similar description.
I've had one cable that wouldn't work also - seemed to work ok for data, but not power...
Another related gotcha is - some USB batteries want to be "on" when you turn on the DR-70D.
Otherwise the deck won't see the battery, and you won't get the "BUS POWER" message at startup - resulting in the deck being powered by internals...leading to shorter runtimes.
I'm guessing Maybe this happened? I HAVE to turn my USB Batteries ON before starting my 70d's ;) Are you 100% sure you had your USB battery ON and the BUS POWER option came on when you turned your 70d on ??? Because that would explain for the short runtime on AA batteries! Maybe when it stopped, you turned the USB battery ON and then it worked fine after that, correct? BUT, if you didn't have AA's in your 70d, and you were just running off of USB batteries[like I sometimes do], then it certainly wouldn't explain the AA internals theory I just had lol ;D
Also, exactly what SD card are you using for your 70d ??? A "Write Timeout" error would've warned you what happened, so it couldn't be that, especially just running 24/44.1 on 2 channels, so I'm very concerned about your issues! Can you reproduce the issues at home possibly if you have the time? I would certainly want to find the problem, before I gave up completely! It really is a great deck, and has proven very reliable for me the 1.5 years Ive owned mine 8)
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I have a USB cable you can have that has worked with mine!! I have 2 of them so the extra is yours if you want it.
I'm sure no one cares at this point but I just recorded my first and last show with the DR-70D.
Facts:
- current firmware
- card from approved media list (erase formatted prior to the show...tested for roughly 16 consecutive hours with no issues prior to the show.)
- battery that others have used successfully (and had plenty of juice when the recorder decided to stop recording)
- 2 channel, 24/44.1 with phantom on channels 1 & 2
-> recording just stopped after about 45 minutes...recorder powered off by itself while the battery was perfectly fine (recorder powered right back on after I discovered that it had turned off)
Fuck it. I don't have the patience for this shit. Anyone with more patience than me wants this thing, send me an offer. I'll throw in the battery, battery cable, a card, and a hard case.
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It sounds like maybe the external battery wasn't connected as external power when the unit was powered up.
My suggestion would be a test run at home on fully charged batteries.
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I agree with everyone else. It's most likely user error. This happened to me once, and I realized that after an earlier sound check, the unit powered itself down after a while since it was not recording (by design). I quickly turned it back on and pressed record when the concert started, but I had forgotten to power on the external first. As a result, it ran off the internal AAs and then died an hour and a half later.
When you use external power, turn on the battery first, then the 70D. It will ask you to confirm USB STORAGE or BUS POWER. Select the second option. If that message never comes up, then it didn't detect the battery.
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I'm sure no one cares at this point but I just recorded my first and last show with the DR-70D.
is there any juice left in the internal batteries? Sounds like the power pack was not turned on, which has happened to me! If the deck was shut off and the battery pack was not turned on when the deck was restarted, that's the simplest time for this error to occur.
Bummer. :(
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I agree with everyone else. It's most likely user error. This happened to me once, and I realized that after an earlier sound check, the unit powered itself down after a while since it was not recording (by design). I quickly turned it back on and pressed record when the concert started, but I had forgotten to power on the external first. As a result, it ran off the internal AAs and then died an hour and a half later.
When you use external power, turn on the battery first, then the 70D. It will ask you to confirm USB STORAGE or BUS POWER. Select the second option. If that message never comes up, then it didn't detect the battery.
Haven't had time to look into it any further but this might be what happened. I didn't think I had internals in there but maybe I did. Fuck.
This issue aside. I think I don't like taping anymore. I just got back into it and I think my reasons for doing so were misguided. Might see my rig for sale soon (again).
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Time to move this to the next discussion thread. Part 7 is here (http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=177544.0).