Topic: I just bought a Tascam DR2D ... use built-in mics? or AT831>BattBox ?

[ljsurfer2002]

long time no post ...

I just bought the Tascam DR2D: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B003838PHQ/ref=pe_385040_30332190_TE_tr_M3T1_ST1_dp_1 after about 4 years of not having a recording deck. My Nomad Jukebox 3 served me well after buying it refurbished in 2002 and taping hundreds of shows till it semi-died in 2008. I used a Rockbox'd iRiver HD-120 for a show or two but the passion for taping had just faded so I sold both.

Now, many years later, I'm ready to use the new technology at a good price so I got the above Tascam DR2D. I'm going to tape a show on Thursday night that is in a loud, small bar. Live-performance of looping / drums / guitar. They are called "Pal&Drome"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2c8jyKa3ANA

My question is that in a loud small bar, can I just use the internal mics that it has? It would be a lot easier to just plop the recorder on the table and let it 'take it all in' ... or it does look like there is a tripod screw mount on the back to let the mics 'point' to the stage.

otherwise my normal rig is AT831 > batt box > deck and I would need a big mic-stand for that or just a jumble of the mic wires on a table. having just the single unit would be really nice....

thoughts? My learning curve will have to be fast. just got it in the FedEx just now! 

[DigiGal]

long time no post ...


My question is that in a loud small bar, can I just use the internal mics that it has? It would be a lot easier to just plop the recorder on the table and let it 'take it all in' ... or it does look like there is a tripod screw mount on the back to let the mics 'point' to the stage.

otherwise my normal rig is AT831 > batt box > deck and I would need a big mic-stand for that or just a jumble of the mic wires on a table. having just the single unit would be really nice....

Welcome back!

Well, you could use the internal mics but it is always advisable to use external mics for a better recordings.

[ljsurfer2002]

yes but the question is can the internal mics "handle-it" ? ... seems silly not to use them if they are built-in.

though there is some talk about 2-channels / dual channel recording at the same time... its not clear if it is the same input only but at two recording 'levels' (so that if one is set too high you can have a non-peaked recording being recorded at the same time).

could I do a 4 track: 2 with the internal mics and 2 with line-in with my external mics and batt box? recorded 'at the same time' ? does this hardware allow that? I know when i was researching decks, some did that but it was a higher $$ feature.... not sure if this can do it. enlighten me!

[Gutbucket]

Not silly at all not to use the internals if you can do better otherwise.  The internals can do a decent job if the recorder is placed in a good sounding spot and pointed correctly.  Don't know how much SPL they can handle though.

could I do a 4 track: 2 with the internal mics and 2 with line-in with my external mics and batt box? recorded 'at the same time' ? does this hardware allow that? I know when i was researching decks, some did that but it was a higher $$ feature.... not sure if this can do it. enlighten me!

Yep. Do that and compare the internals to your 831s.  Read the section on DUAL_LINE in the user manual which explains it. Check out the DR2d threads here which fully explain all there is to know about this deck and the correct settings to use for 4channel recording.

[ljsurfer2002]

Not silly at all not to use the internals if you can do better otherwise.  The internals can do a decent job if the recorder is placed in a good sounding spot and pointed correctly.  Don't know how much SPL they can handle though.

could I do a 4 track: 2 with the internal mics and 2 with line-in with my external mics and batt box? recorded 'at the same time' ? does this hardware allow that? I know when i was researching decks, some did that but it was a higher $$ feature.... not sure if this can do it. enlighten me!

Yep. Do that and compare the internals to your 831s.  Read the section on DUAL_LINE in the user manual which explains it. Check out the DR2d threads here which fully explain all there is to know about this deck and the correct settings to use for 4channel recording.

Sweet. thanks, i'll try and practice in the living room with the stereo tonight and tomorrow ...

I guess the dual_line option is something cool to try to record both a SBD patch LINE_IN and external mics MIC_IN ... at the same time... i'll have to experiment!

[Gutbucket]

Yep. 

Here's the Cliff Notes-
Safe line input gain is between 95-100 (make adjustments from there using the gain with your preamp).
Safe mic input gain is no lower than 65, with the input sensitivity set to LOW.  Okay to go higher than 65 as necessary.
Settings outside that range can 'brickwall' withough indication.

That mic input gain advice probably doesn't apply to the internal mics.  I don't know if there is an unsafe input gain range for them.

The IR remote works even with the deck's hold-switch engaged.  So you can lock it down and still start/stop recording using the remote.

[ljsurfer2002]

thanks for the clliff-notes version.

Also some of the threads I've seen stress the importance of formatting the SDHC card first before trying to record on it.

Can I format it on the PC / windows explorer ? or does it have to be formatted 'by' the DR2D ? ... it seems that when the card is in the machine and you USB / connect to a PC and power it on, it would just show it as a normal 'external' device. similar to when you plug a digital camera into your computer and the camera has an SD card in it .... right?

[DigiGal]

thanks for the clliff-notes version.

Also some of the threads I've seen stress the importance of formatting the SDHC card first before trying to record on it.

Can I format it on the PC / windows explorer ? or does it have to be formatted 'by' the DR2D ? ... it seems that when the card is in the machine and you USB / connect to a PC and power it on, it would just show it as a normal 'external' device. similar to when you plug a digital camera into your computer and the camera has an SD card in it .... right?

Generally best to format memory cards in the actual device that will be using them for optimal performance in that device whether it be; audio recorder, video recorder or digital camera, etc.

[Gutbucket]

Good advice from DigiGal, which isn't suprising. 

The DR-2d will reformat, or if it recognizes the existing format structure, will simply ask to write necessary system files.


More detail than you probably want, but here's how I manage SDHC cards so that I can swap them between any of my recorders or a camera as necessary, without reformating or deleting the files that may already be on there until they are near full-

I leave the files on the card after transfering, simply as an extra backup until I have redunant copies on a couple hard drives.  Once I've filled a card and need to wipe it clean, I do that by formating it on a one of my windows machines, at which time I give the card a unique file name at the same time to ID and differentiate it from my other cards for easier management.   I've written a number on the outside of each card with a sharpie to tag it, so the file name is simply that number and the card's formatted capacity, something like this:

#12_30GB

I then put in in the DR-680 which is the most picky of my recorders about formatting cards to it's liking, and it asks to format it.  That formats and writes some necessary files and folders, but retains the card name.  I then put it in a DR2d and let it write it's system files.  That is not a full format and retains the card name as well as the DR-680 files and folders. 

At that point I can swap that card between the DR-680, DR-2d(s), R-44, R-09(s), or a camera.  The Edirols aren't picky about formating and write no system files or folders. Like most cameras they will work with any properly computer formatted card.

Like DigiGal suggests, It’s always best to format on the machine you intend to use the card with, but I’ve had no problems doing this.  It makes management easier for me and I can throw any of my SDHC cards with free space into any of these devices without worrying about loosing what's already on card.

[ljsurfer2002]

just did the super basic 'out of the box' record with built in mic's at med gain and using a mini-bendy-tripod to point the Tascam DR2D at the stage.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/24555244/Pal%26Drome_2013-10-17_SodaBar.wav

Pal&Drome
Opening band - 2013-10-17

Soda Bar, City Heights, San Diego, CA
https://www.facebook.com/pal.and.drome
https://soundcloud.com/pal-and-drome

Hope you dig it!

[hoppedup]

just did the super basic 'out of the box' record with built in mic's at med gain and using a mini-bendy-tripod to point the Tascam DR2D at the stage.

Hope you dig it!

 Sounds pretty damn good. I'd be happy with it if I recorded it.

You will probably get consistently better results with externals, especially under less than optimum conditions. But with the right conditions, internals can do quite well.

[tay666]

My question is that in a loud small bar, can I just use the internal mics that it has? It would be a lot easier to just plop the recorder on the table and let it 'take it all in'

Sure.
I've been using mine for a couple years now, and all I have used is internals.
Sure, I could get better results with more equipment and better mics, but everything I do is stealth, so I appreciate the small and easy aspects of just using the internals.  I also prefer a bit more 'raw' sound in my recordings, as it feels more like I am at the show when I listen to them. I just stick it in the breast pocket of my jean jacket and let er roll.

Here are a few samples I've pulled.
Three Days Grace at an outdoor pavilion in Pittsburgh from about 2 sections back on the right side
http://www.tylisaari.com/misc/boots/sample/uproar/tdg11samp01.mp3

Alice Cooper in a small theater, more or less center about 50 feet back
http://www.tylisaari.com/misc/boots/sample/alicesample3.mp3

Godsmack at a shed near Cleveland. This one came out much better than it should have, considering my seat placement.
Left side, back of first section. Had one of the hanging roof stacks pointing straight at me. It was so loud I was actually getting a headache from it. The 2nd recording at -10dB really saved me on this one. Especially since I couldn't adjust levels due to the usher standing right behind me.
http://www.tylisaari.com/misc/boots/sample/uproar2012/godsmack3.mp3