Topic: Re: TASCAM DR-680 portable 8-track #5

[Chuck]

Yeah, I format mine in the machine every time I use it. I've never had an issue doing it that way.

[bobbygeeWOW]

So I typically tape a full 12-hour day at festivals without swapping cards/formatting between shows (in scalding heat, driving sleet, all that).
Only lost one set to the zero file size problem over several years but it never happened again and I was slightly altered by then so I didn't get into it too much.

Question regarding filesystems and sector allocations and such:

If I format a card, then sequentially record a series of sets onto the card, would the filesystem not allocate sectors sequentially, tidily, easily searchable, etc?
Effectively making it a fine way to operate?
Seems like the sorts of issues being referred to would be the result of deleting and re-recording repeatedly on the same card, eh?

[Gutbucket]

I'm no expert, but that's my understanding. 

Here's my annecdotal experience upon which my current practice is based- Using various recorders, I've only had file problems with otherwise good cards when I'd deleted files from them and then recorded more stuff without formating.. or had power problems on some recorders.  I've never had a problem simply using cards until they are near full before reformating them. 

Because of that I reformat anytime (or almost anytime) I actually delete files.   If I have plenty of space left on the card for what I want to record, I don't reformat and leave the old stuff on there.  I typically take a handfull of freshly formatted high capacity cards to a fest with the idea of using one each day to make file management easier, but often end up using the same 32GB card for more than one day.

[Gutbucket]

Possibly helpful SDHC card management tip-

Before a festival I remove all the files from the pool of empy cards I plan to use and format them on the computer, then put each into the DR-680 and let it do it's quick format again (which also writes the necessary system files, etc), and I do that for all my cards regardless of what device I plan to use them in.

I do that because I can then use them in any of my other devices like a camera or a different recorder, and if necessary I can take them out and use them in the DR-680 without re-formating and loosing the data recorded by the other device.   The DR-680 is the only one of my recorders which always demands it's own format on the machine before it will work.  If one of those formatted cards is put into a DR2d, it will ask to write sys files but does not need to reformat (It will ask to do a full format if the card had not been formatted on the DR-680).  My Edirol/Roland R-09/R44 recorders will write to any properly formatted card without any need to write system files or format (I wish the Tascam file system worked that easily) and the cameras don't care either.

Interestingly it does not work the other way- If I format on a DR2d then put the card into the DR-680, it will still need to reformat it and cannot simpy write sys files.  So by formatting all SDHC cards in the DR-680 I make sure that I can use any of them in any of my devices, interchangebly if necessary without loosing data before I get home and copy them to safe storage. 

I used to go one step further and put each card into a DR2d to write its sys files after doing the DR-680 format, but decided that's overkill and isn't necessary.  The DR2d will write sys files to a card formated in the 680 without harming pre-existing data from a camera or other recorder.

[Gutbucket]

Problem.

I experienced the cyclical pumping gain issue during the last set I recorded at Suwannee Springfest two weekends ago.  I was cataloging and listening to the files last weekend when I discovered it.  It's only during that single set, lasts for maybe 10 minutes, then clears up again.  As described by others here previously it manifests as a dip and then peak (or is it a peak then dip? I can't recall which comes first) in level across all channels, which repeats every few seconds.  I was running 6 microphones at the time into the analog inputs, all phatom powered by the DR-680, nothing into or out of the digital ports and no internal stereo mixdown for that set.  Mics used were: 2x DPA_4060>Niant_PFAs>ch1&2, 2x MG_M94/MV692>ch3&4, 2x MG_M210>ch5&6.

[Chuck]

Problem.

I experienced the cyclical pumping gain issue during the last set I recorded at Suwannee Springfest two weekends ago.  I was cataloging and listening to the files last weekend when I discovered it.  It's only during that single set, lasts for maybe 10 minutes, then clears up again.  As described by others here previously it manifests as a dip and then peak (or is it a peak then dip? I can't recall which comes first) in level across all channels, which repeats every few seconds.  I was running 6 microphones at the time into the analog inputs, all phatom powered by the DR-680, nothing into or out of the digital ports and no internal stereo mixdown for that set.  Mics used were: 2x DPA_4060>Niant_PFAs>ch1&2, 2x MG_M94/MV692>ch3&4, 2x MG_M210>ch5&6.

Yup, been there and done that.

Was it hot at the venue? I've only experienced it in extreme heat.

[Gutbucket]

Not particularly, though it was the warmest afternoon of the weekend.  I've run in on much hotter days there without problems previously.  It might have been hotter in the bag than I realized though.

[bobbygeeWOW]

Oh wow.

That pumping gain issue sounds odd, like some power circuitry draining too fast and needing time to catch up.
Never seen that. Though I always have a v3 doing digi into two channels and I'm not sure that I've done 6 phantom channels from dr-680.
Plenty of heat with less channels no problem. Only one ever was that zero byte file thing (possibly caused by my enthusiasm for the event).

(Doesn't apply to my life but) interesting info regarding the DR-680's requirement for formatting, thanks for sharing.

[Chuck]

The two times I experienced the cyclical volume thing I was outside and it was very hot out. The last time I had the presence of mind to check the bottom of the recorder (bottom, right, back corner) and it was very warm to the touch. I have rearranged things in my bag now and that bottom of the recorder is open and not blocked by anything now. I have gotten into the habit of putting my hand on that area several times per show to check it.

I also have started using an external pre-amp on channels 5+6 to help take some load off the phantom power supply in the DR-680.

[Gutbucket]

I had the R44 in the same bag as the 680 that day, which was turned off at the time, but taking up airspace.  I did have both recorders running simultaneously for the previous set, with four mics into the R-44 (carry over from my foul weather setup the day before) and the R44's digital and analog outputs feeding the DR680 (no mics, no phantom on the 680 that set), so it's possible excess heat may have built up earlier.  Both recorders were powered by seperate DVD batteries.

Making a mental note to start checking the bottom right back corner occassionally for excess warmth.

[achalsey]

I had the R44 in the same bag as the 680 that day, which was turned off at the time, but taking up airspace.  I did have both recorders running simultaneously for the previous set, with four mics into the R-44 (carry over from my foul weather setup the day before) and the R44's digital and analog outputs feeding the DR680 (no mics, no phantom on the 680 that set), so it's possible excess heat may have built up earlier.  Both recorders were powered by seperate DVD batteries.

Making a mental note to start checking the bottom right back corner occassionally for excess warmth.

Anybody have suggestions for dispelling excess heat?  I have a feeling I'm going to run into this problem running the 680 and V2 in the same bag on a few summer days and not sure how to cure it.  I got the 680 late(ish) last summer and ran it a few times in the summer heat and it definitely got very hot in the bag.

[bobbygeeWOW]

I run with v3 in a bag for years at very hot summer festivals.
Felt the gear and its scorching hot... (better start knocking on wood)

To mitigate I use reflective blanket (plasticized one, not the loud crinkling space blankets) to keep the sun off, which is very effective(!) and try to leave air space around everything for current.
Haven't gone to the little muffin fan yet

[achalsey]

Thanks for the suggestion on the reflective blanket, that might be a good investment.  I'm running a Sonic Case so have been thinking of grabbing a little battery powered fan to blow into one of the side openings right onto the recorder.

[drewloo]

You could try taking the battery cover off of the bottom (without AA-batteries in there, of course).  Might allow better heat dissipation.   

[Gutbucket]

Mine is always in it's form-fitting protective case, not particularly great for heat dissipation I suppose.  Still somewhat sceptical heat was the cause here, since I know its been hotter, and packed tighter in the big bag numerous times, as it was recording 3 days at the same event the last year. But it could be.