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Author Topic: Team classical recording  (Read 106768 times)

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Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Team classical recording
« Reply #30 on: July 01, 2009, 10:37:28 AM »
Posted about a very interesting 4 mic headworn techique over in Team DPA which one of our members has developed for some Opera recording.  Figured you all may be interested. I plan to explore this further.
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Offline live2496

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Re: Team classical recording
« Reply #31 on: July 01, 2009, 10:58:56 AM »
Thanks. I'm definitely intererested in experimenting with that Strauss Packet technique that was mentioned.
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Offline WiFiJeff

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Re: Team classical recording
« Reply #32 on: July 01, 2009, 02:02:49 PM »
Checking in.  Great thread.  I'll be doing a Strauss Packet tape this weekend, seats a bit too far back to go straight omni and still hope to pick up soloists.

Learning from serendipitous mistakes: last week I was taping a jazz quartet, not my usual fare.  I went with a pair of Cascade Fathead II (Lundahl transformers) ribbon mics, in Blumlein configuration.  The right channel picked out the trumpet and drums accurately, the electric bass center was about right, but my stand was angled down too steeply and the left channel was centered under the piano.  I usually do Blumlein with an AKG 426, these ribbons are far more colored off-axis (by the time I figured this out, too late to change).  The result was that the Steinway grand ended up sounding like my idea of a jazz piano (softer, weaker highs).  No feedback yet from the artists, but I really like this tape!

Jeff

Offline boojum

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Re: Team classical recording
« Reply #33 on: July 01, 2009, 10:01:16 PM »
Checking in.  Great thread.  I'll be doing a Strauss Packet tape this weekend, seats a bit too far back to go straight omni and still hope to pick up soloists.

Learning from serendipitous mistakes: last week I was taping a jazz quartet, not my usual fare.  I went with a pair of Cascade Fathead II (Lundahl transformers) ribbon mics, in Blumlein configuration.  The right channel picked out the trumpet and drums accurately, the electric bass center was about right, but my stand was angled down too steeply and the left channel was centered under the piano.  I usually do Blumlein with an AKG 426, these ribbons are far more colored off-axis (by the time I figured this out, too late to change).  The result was that the Steinway grand ended up sounding like my idea of a jazz piano (softer, weaker highs).  No feedback yet from the artists, but I really like this tape!

Jeff

Sample??
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Offline WiFiJeff

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Re: Team classical recording
« Reply #34 on: July 03, 2009, 10:04:35 AM »
pm sent.

Offline guosh86

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Re: Team classical recording
« Reply #35 on: July 05, 2009, 10:41:40 AM »
did a recording of my university orchestra (amateurs though, just doing it as a hobby) before they head to korea for a tour in a couple of days

nothing new in terms of pics, just did ortf with beyer mc930s a couple of feet from the group. can't remember how high it was, but it was pretty decent. had to move the stand slightly forward in order to balance the strings and winds, and also managed to get curtains to absorb most of the sound in the small room.

added some spots for the group - a rode nt5 to add more detail to the winds (wanted to do XY but i only brought 4 cables and i had to use one for my double bass spot)

mixed them on the fly with a behringer mixer to my UA5 and finally to the microtrack 2

in the end it was ok, but needed quite a bit of work in post-production just to get it to sound right - the behringer mixer was unbearably noisy, and the room still didn't sound great at all. did quite a bit of eq before compressing, adding reverb and limiting. i'll post a clip of them soon, either the mozart or the beethoven.

thats basically the setup for my recordings on the road, just a bag with all my equipment in it and mic stands in another bag. i'll have to get a 4 track recorder at some point i guess, because mixing on the fly is pretty nervewrecking imo. what do you guys usually bring to your recording sessions?

i'm still waiting for a pair of omnis so i can run split omnis or a jecklin disc. maybe i'll mount it all on the same stand too.... i'll post some pics and clips when i get them! for now, here are the pics from the session

Offline boojum

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Re: Team classical recording
« Reply #36 on: July 06, 2009, 01:44:56 AM »
What do I bring to sessions?  Depends.  When I do the local chorale I bring a pair of omnis for AB or Jecklin and will bring a card or two for spots.  I also did some spot recording with an MS rig which turned out well.  The problem I have with AB plus spots is the time difference.  If I do not delay the spots to align with the AB's sometimes the spots stand out too much.  That is, they sound recorded closer than the omnis, because they were.  Backing the timing off a few milliseconds to align more with the omnis overcomes this.  By dinking around with the spot timing I can seemingly move the soloists back and forward in the stage, which can be useful.

The chamber group I did was MS on the chamber quartet and AB omnis on the piano.  Multi, more than two, tracking I do with either two two track recorders linked or an eight track.  Either way is good.  I did the chamber group with the two two tracks, the chorale with an eight track and also with two two tracks.

Most critical for me is finding the "sweet spot."

Cheers
« Last Edit: July 06, 2009, 07:44:45 PM by boojum »
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Offline Mike R.

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Re: Team classical recording
« Reply #37 on: July 07, 2009, 01:51:37 AM »
I've had a couple of recording opportunities in the last few weeks.  In both cases I used a pair of Beyerdynamic M88TG mics aimed outward ala ORTF.  No measurement of spacing or angles, but keeping in mind the hyper-cardioid-ness of the mics and what I've read in the Stereo Zoom article.  Mics feed a Mix-Pre, the tape-out of that goes to the line-in of a PMD-660.

Session 1 was a flute/cello duo in a medium sized living room with high vaulted wood-paneled ceilings.  An area rug on the wood floor under the musicians extended nearly to the mic stand.  The mics were about 4 feet above the floor.  I had a second 660 that I ran a pair of AT 3032 (omni) spaced about 4 feet apart,  All mics were within 8 feet of the musicians.  The omnis were a backup pair, I was not mixing, and the two 660s were not synchronized.  I was somewhat surprised how similar the primary and the backup recordings sound.  The microphones were very different.  The omni pair went to an Oade Advanced Mod 660.  The primary pair (hypers) went to a Basic mod 660, but I think there is not much of that mod in the line-in path.  The goal here was a demo recording for the musicians.

Session 2 was four performers on a Japanese flute, two solo, one with shamisen, one with koto, and then all four flutes with bass koto.  The concert performance was in a dome shaped auditorium that seats about 400, maybe 70 in the audience.  The mics (M88s) were closer to the floor than session 1, more like 12 inches off the floor, aimed up slightly.  The audience was very quiet.  I only hear audience noise in one or two places.  I've recorded here before with less directional mics and audience noise and chair creaks were more audible.  This was primarily a concert performance so the mics were kept low, out of the main sight lines.

I think the results were pretty good with relatively modest equipment by professional recording standards.  Session 1 required no balance tweaking.  In Session 2, I gave about 3dB more to the left channel (koto side) in the Koto/flute duo.  The final with all four flutes and bass koto has a bit more emphasis on the koto than is optimal, the koto was front and center.  This arrangement was for the concert audience, not the recording.

I can probably get some short clips together...

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Offline JackHenry

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Re: Team classical recording
« Reply #38 on: July 07, 2009, 04:01:16 AM »
I'd be interested in the recording of the AT3032 pair if you can post a clip please..

Oooh! And a photo of the position relative to the musicians if possible

Offline boojum

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Re: Team classical recording
« Reply #39 on: July 07, 2009, 01:10:37 PM »

I can probably get some short clips together...



I am hoping.    8)
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jnorman34

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Re: Team classical recording
« Reply #40 on: July 08, 2009, 11:20:09 AM »
jack - i have some clips available of flute/piano duo from the new AT4022 omnis (which replaced the AT3032) - they are very nice mics.

Offline SClassical

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Re: Team classical recording
« Reply #41 on: July 08, 2009, 12:14:13 PM »
in the end it was ok, but needed quite a bit of work in post-production just to get it to sound right - the behringer mixer was unbearably noisy, and the room still didn't sound great at all. did quite a bit of eq before compressing, adding reverb and limiting. i'll post a clip of them soon, either the mozart or the beethoven.

I can see why it didn't sound that great!! It's not a huge room even though with good ceiling height. The long black curtains on all the walls will definitely make the recording sound bad. Usually for classical recording a room with no absorbent material on the walls or ceilings will work best. Also your main mics near the conductor stand is right next to the curtain. Usually, if you want good results for recording classical you need to have free air around the pickup (mic) location. If you attend a Symphony Orch concert you will see the main omni AB pair hanging mid air from the high ceiling behind the conductor. Next time if you can pull the curtains together you should hear some improvements even with that bad crowded room. Good luck!
« Last Edit: July 08, 2009, 12:21:58 PM by scyue »
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jnorman34

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Re: Team classical recording
« Reply #42 on: July 08, 2009, 05:17:12 PM »
a couple of clips from flute/piano duo - doppler's fantasie hungarian - hope the links work, the files were too large to upload here:

first one is a pair of AT4051s in ORTF about 7-8 feet out
http://www.gearslutz.com/board/attachments/remote-possibilities-acoustic-music-location-recording/97701d1223943884-ortf-vs-spaced-pair-ortf1.mp3

second one is a spaced pair of AT4022 omnis about 4-5 feet out.  (the 4022s replaced the AT3032 omnis)
http://www.gearslutz.com/board/attachments/remote-possibilities-acoustic-music-location-recording/97702d1223943884-ortf-vs-spaced-pair-omnis1.mp3

Offline JackHenry

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Re: Team classical recording
« Reply #43 on: July 08, 2009, 05:59:13 PM »
The omnis sound nice. How far apart were they??

jnorman34

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Re: Team classical recording
« Reply #44 on: July 08, 2009, 06:16:11 PM »
jack - omnis were spread about 40cm. 

 

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