Topic: Help with stealth soundboards!

[redseed]

Hey all. I'm into getting stealth soundboards and have been successful a few times, but only on the boards with RCA jacks...that's real easy to do, it just says "tape out" or whatever.
On boards that don't have that I've been less successful. I'm well aware which cables I need as it has been mentioned on here countless times...but what I need to know is where to plug into the board when it isn't so obvious which is the proper or best line out.

This Friday I want to record from a Soundcraft 200b board, but I don't know where I want to plug in. Is it the 2 Track returns? the aux outputs? the mix outputs? the tape returns?
here is the complete info on the board:
http://www.soundcraft.com/product_sheet.asp?product_id=68

How about other boards? What other words am I looking for on the back of the board that mean "line out"?
Really appreciate your help!

[sygdwm]

IME boards w/o tape outs have 1/4" outs but it could require post mixing the left and right channels. happened to me last week.

[Humbug]

Whats a stealth soundboard? If you're plugging in to a board without permission you risk upsetting quite a lot of people!

[redseed]

IME boards w/o tape outs have 1/4" outs but it could require post mixing the left and right channels. happened to me last week.

Again, I'm aware that I might need 1/4 inch cables. I need to know where to plug those into on the board. Does anybody know?
I've never upset anybody with a stealth soundboard, so I'm not worried about that. Somebody must be able to help me out here!

[Humbug]

-t for bad karma, mate. It is NOT cool to plug into a SBD without asking the sound guy first, who should be the one answering these questions anyhow.

Of course, if I've misunderstood and this isn't what you're doing, I'll +t you again.

[Chuck]

-t for bad karma, mate. It is NOT cool to plug into a SBD without asking the sound guy first, who should be the one answering these questions anyhow.

Of course, if I've misunderstood and this isn't what you're doing, I'll +t you again.

The whole idea of this bothers me too, but I know that some guys do it.

[greenone]

Ditto. A local venue here in Boston stopped allowing SBDs even for taper-friendly acts after one guy blew out the house system by plugging in without permission. Not cool at all.

[Steve J]

There are a number of reasons that make 'stealthing' a SBD a bad idea; but a prime one is that unless you know how the engineer/FOH person is routing things, you will wind up with nada anyway. At a recent show, the board that I was patched into had some faulty outputs; so I had to connect to a monitor submix out that wasn't being used for the stage...and the engineer had to route the mix to that bus for me.

And as mentioned above, you could also cause technical difficulties for the house, which could make the venue decide to not allow any taping at all, even when the recordists are using mics for taper-friendly acts.

[Tall Adam]

Ditto. A local venue here in Boston stopped allowing SBDs even for taper-friendly acts after one guy blew out the house system by plugging in without permission. Not cool at all.

what venue do you speak of? out of curiosity...

again, not cool bro. not to mention pretty damn dumb. i wont harp on what others have said, but wow...

[pfife]

If I were a soundguy, I'd turn the tape-out level all the way up, and leave it there.

See the thread about LOS becoming non-taper friendly before you distribute one of these recordings.

[bluegrass_brad]

The stealth SBD was attempted at one of our Acoustic Planet shows in Minneapolis.  While Richard Battaglia only unplugged the person in that incident, in later discussion we all thought a quick snip with a pocketknife might be the best way to fix it next time it happened.

[Tim]

If I were a soundguy, I'd turn the tape-out level all the way up, and leave it there.

See the thread about LOS becoming non-taper friendly before you distribute one of these recordings.

that was Hot Tuna actually...

Phish stopped allowing SBDs after some jackass brought down half of the PA midway through a set....

[Tall Adam]

the only way to allow soundboards IME is through a patchbay. Dispatch's sound guy Buzzy used to allow them because he had a custom box which essentially split the tape out signal into i think 8 sets of RCA's and 1/4". Pretty sweet, just came to the show, plugged in your cables and you were all set. ahhh back in the day when i used to patch sbd with my MD  in any case, other than that, i would never let someone i didnt know or trust plug directly into my board if i were FOH.

[bluegrass_brad]

We used to have one, but someone stole it after a gig.  Just unplugged it and walked away with it.   

[pfife]

If I were a soundguy, I'd turn the tape-out level all the way up, and leave it there.

See the thread about LOS becoming non-taper friendly before you distribute one of these recordings.

that was Hot Tuna actually...

Phish stopped allowing SBDs after some jackass brought down half of the PA midway through a set....

 

thanks for correcting me TIm.

[philR]

We used to have one, but someone stole it after a gig.  Just unplugged it and walked away with it.   

that sucks, man where do people get off sometimes.

[Chuck]

An active patchbay with buffering opamps is fairly easy to make. I made one a while back, to use for recording bands when I did sound. The thing is, you don't want a passive device, because if a problem developes, like a short from someone pulling out a cord. You don't want that to affect the mix.

[greenone]

Ditto. A local venue here in Boston stopped allowing SBDs even for taper-friendly acts after one guy blew out the house system by plugging in without permission. Not cool at all.

what venue do you speak of? out of curiosity...

Harper's Ferry in Allston...I think at Topaz back in January...

[Swampy]

I think its kind of funny how everyone gets their panties in a bunch when someone talks about stealthing a sbd as if its morally wrong, but stealthing with mics is okay, right?... I obviously see the reasons why stealthing a sbd is a baaaad idea, but IMO its not any different than stealthing with mics... No need for - karma.

[dnsacks]

Alex:

I see a big difference -- stealthing with mics doesn't risk damaging or destroying the club's (or band's) sound system and isn't a physical intrusion into the property of the club or band. 

If I'm stealthing with mics, the most I could do to diminish another attendee's experience would be to "shhsh" her.  OTOH, if my stealthing a sbd feed damages the sound reinforcement system in any way, I'm harming everybody's experience. 

[Brian]

i think the reason people are being harsh on this guy is because he's asking about what outputs he would need to plug into when it's different for every board in terms of location and type and could possibly cause harm to the production of the show.  he obviously has no idea how exactly soundboards work or what kind of outputs are on different popular FOH boards.   people have mentioned tapers in the past messing with the house sound due to trying to stealth the FOH or Monitor board.  the only thing that can go wrong with a stealther with microphones is that his/her shit doesn't work for whatever reason or they get popped by security.  the quality and production of the show have no possibility of getting messed up by some dumbass and everybody else still ha a good time.  so in regards to this guy he essentially needs to learn what he is trying to do on his own.  besides who wants a soundboard tape anyway  

edit:  yeah darrin....beat me to it.

[redseed]

Wow, you guys trashed me! Do a search on this board...many people have mentioned stealth soundboards before and I don't think anybody's been trashed like this! How could just plugging into a line out fuck everything over?...it would be different if it were a line in I were plugging into. But that's why I'm asking first. I'm not just randomly plugging into the board to see what works here! If anybody else who's done a stealth soundboard cares to help me out, please feel free!

[Brian]

i think the best thing you can do is figure out the exact brand and model of the soundboards in the venues you tape regularly in.   then just find their specification sheets on the maker's website to determine where you need to plug into and what connectors you'll need.

[Tony B]

That, or just invest in some solid kick-ass stealth gear. Stealthing a SBD just seems...I dunno...kinda gay, and a HELL of a lot more like stealing than just standing there, captuing the soundwaves from the audience.

[JAH]

hey bro maybe you mean no harm but WOW! ...my initial thought is that is a good way to get your ass kicked by the sound man (hey man mind if I drive your car for a while....is that your beer???) and wreck any chance of aud taping for everyone else.  I see you mean no harm but niether did others that ended up causing havoc.  

As for stealthing w/ mics...you are on your own and not potentially messing up the entire sound board.

hopefully santa will get you some mics...that way all the sound is captured as not always do the drums go throught the board.

peace
jah

Wow, you guys trashed me! Do a search on this board...many people have mentioned stealth soundboards before and I don't think anybody's been trashed like this! How could just plugging into a line out fuck everything over?...it would be different if it were a line in I were plugging into. But that's why I'm asking first. I'm not just randomly plugging into the board to see what works here! If anybody else who's done a stealth soundboard cares to help me out, please feel free!

[JAH]

i think the best thing you can do is figure out the exact brand and model of the soundboards in the venues you tape regularly in.   then just find their specification sheets on the maker's website to determine where you need to plug into and what connectors you'll need.

if you tape there regularly try making firends? (not you STL ;-)  )  btw STL, ennjoying the fricken cold snap ;-)

[Chuck]

redseed:

If you try to do this, the best thing that can be accomplished is getting a SBD tape... In my opinion, not the best recording you could get...

BUT, and it's a big BUT the worst you could do is:

 get arrested
 ruin the concert for hundreds or thousands of people
 be liable for repairs to the equiptment (not just the mixing board, but the amps, speakers, anything that may be ruined


 please don't attempt this...

[Brian]

if you tape there regularly try making firends? (not you STL ;-)  )  btw STL, ennjoying the fricken cold snap ;-)

yeah i was just scurrying him and the subject he brought up away from here

i work at a car wash.............it's MISERABLE!!!  FREEZING!  thanks for thinking of me

[Lil Kim Jong-Il]

its not any different than stealthing with mics... No need for - karma.

Stealthing with mics can be argued to be documentation of a public performance.

Stealing a board feed is just that, stealing.

[edgar]

hey bro maybe you mean no harm but WOW! ...my initial thought is that is a good way to get your ass kicked by the sound man (hey man mind if I drive your car for a while....is that your beer???) and wreck any chance of aud taping for everyone else.  I see you mean no harm but niether did others that ended up causing havoc. 

As for stealthing w/ mics...you are on your own and not potentially messing up the entire sound board.

hopefully santa will get you some mics...that way all the sound is captured as not always do the drums go throught the board.

peace
jah

Wow, you guys trashed me! Do a search on this board...many people have mentioned stealth soundboards before and I don't think anybody's been trashed like this! How could just plugging into a line out fuck everything over?...it would be different if it were a line in I were plugging into. But that's why I'm asking first. I'm not just randomly plugging into the board to see what works here! If anybody else who's done a stealth soundboard cares to help me out, please feel free!

heh, i was gonna say - i know several FOH guys that would pound someone for much less than trying to steal a sbd feed.

[redseed]

Hey guys.
It's the control room monitor I need, so it's two mono 1/4 inchers. If dude's got his headphones plugged in though, it will cancel that in which case I'll have to go with the headphone out, get a splitter for that.

Just so y'all know, if anybody else was interested.

[Tall Adam]

mmmm mono tapes 

get the message, no ones interested

[Brian Skalinder]

many people have mentioned stealth soundboards before

By all means, direct us to the threads.  In my time here - as far as I recall - it's come up only a couple times, if that.  Bottom line:  not a good idea.  If you wanna go for it, go for it, but as people have indicated there are multiple reasons why it's a b-a-d idea.

[redseed]

mmmm mono tapes 

get the message, no ones interested

Really? Is that why there were 32 replies in one day?
Stereo feed btw.

[Tall Adam]

being pissed about something and wanting to know the answer to your question are two totally different things. and the way you worded it, no thats not stereo, its a mono in the left, and a mono in the right, same thing in both channels

[Brian Skalinder]

Really? Is that why there were 32 replies in one day?

If you take a look at the content of the replies, you'll find most of the replies are not offers of assistance - but rather attempts to dissuade you from your planned activities, and for very good reasons at that.  It's pretty clear to me, anyway, GQJSP's comment "no one's interested" intended to convey the message not many people are interested in helping.

[Tall Adam]

word +t brian

[Bubb Rubb]

I've never heard of stealth soundboard takes.  Wow, you would have to be really damn stealthy to pull that off.  hmmm, that's some sneaky shit

[Tim]

It's apparent from the fact that you would post to this board and be so desperatley in need of advice that you haven't got a clue what you're doing.

One option  is to learn the make and model of the boards you're interested in and learn your self, good luck with that

The best advice you've gotten is to cozy up with some local soundguys.

If you try this without permision you're a greedy jack-ass in my book and you deserve the ass-kicking that  you're bound to recieve.

[temis]

Well, I have quite limited experience in taping off the soundboard. (With permission, not stealthing ) But wouldn't taping sometimes (maybe always, I don't know) require the outputs to be turned on. When I've taped off the sbd the soundman has adjusted the output volume and I got the impression that if he didn't do that there would be no signal at all.

Even IF you actually could hook up your cables to the back of the sbd I'd think it would take quite a lot of more balls to go to the board and mess with the setting of the outputs! If one would start doing this the risk of REALLY messing up the sound would become much greater!

[Chris K]

-T

here's in hopes your minidisc shorts out on you the next time you try this weak ass "stealth soundboard" move.

why dont you just ask the soundguy first?

[Brian]

why dont you just ask the soundguy first?

cause it is obvious the bands he tapes don't have an open taping policy.

[1st set only]

Ditto. A local venue here in Boston stopped allowing SBDs even for taper-friendly acts after one guy blew out the house system by plugging in without permission. Not cool at all.

if your talking about harpers ferry, permission was granted. we dont know what the fuck happened but we think DC was getting sent some how to the board somehow. probably through a short.

reseed:

cant you see that you are pissing people off here? as others have said, you doing this has the potential to f things up for all us tapers and fans.

I can picture this...
Packed club, band gets on stage, you go and plug in the board and poof, band cannot play, venu has to refund tickets sold, and any taper that wants to tape a show board or mics at said venu in the future is turned away. It just so happens that this venu is in coopperation with other venus in your area and they adopt the same non taper policy to protect thier equipment.

in short dont do it.

[capnhook]

-T if I could......

[jhirte]

I have mixed feelings on this myself. I've gotten away with a stealth sbd, was a digitial patch. no issues at all. Band normally allowed, but were recording the performance themselves. (and for those who ask, I havent traded the tape.. or listened to it in over a year! so not getting out there from me!). So, ONE time experience for me, and thats it. I dont think you could fuck up a spdif patch!

I dont even see where you'd be able to get near a board and plugin w/o getting caught by the soundman. Of all the venues I've been to, I dont see how youd get back there w/o being noticed...

IMO: buddy up to the local soundguys, and more often than not they'll hook you up with a patch even if the band doesn't allow board patches... drop them off some cdrs of other shows you've taped. They like that gesture. And its a lot better to have them plug your ass in than doing it yourself!!! Maybe if they show you, where, etc.. but to do it on your own... I'd be very hesitant.

Now as far as relating a stealth board as stealing? I dont know about that. your still just taping the performance. Same lines as an IEM/ALD. Still just taping (altough the quality might be a lot better). I guess I'd call it stealing if you were selling it on ebay or something, but for a private collector to listen to.... kinda hard to figure out where that fine line is..

-T me away I guess!

-Jim

[Lil Kim Jong-Il]

... kinda hard to figure out where that fine line is..

It's really not hard to figure out where the line is.  When you tap into someone else's equipment without permission, that is across the line of acceptability.

[greenone]

Ditto. A local venue here in Boston stopped allowing SBDs even for taper-friendly acts after one guy blew out the house system by plugging in without permission. Not cool at all.

if your talking about harpers ferry, permission was granted. we dont know what the fuck happened but we think DC was getting sent some how to the board somehow. probably through a short.

Oops...my mistake. I tried to find the thread on here but couldn't come up with it. Sorry 'bout that.

[urobouros]

buddy up to the local soundguys, and more often than not they'll hook you up with a patch even if the band doesn't allow board patches... drop them off some cdrs of other shows you've taped. They like that gesture. And its a lot better to have them plug your ass in than doing it yourself!!! Maybe if they show you, where, etc.. but to do it on your own... I'd be very hesitant.

One of my close friends is a sound engineer and she hooks up patchers all the time if they ask nicely and promise to hook her up with a copy.  She will and has, however, beat the living shit out of some one trying to patch without asking her. 

[redseed]

buddy up to the local soundguys, and more often than not they'll hook you up with a patch even if the band doesn't allow board patches... drop them off some cdrs of other shows you've taped. They like that gesture. And its a lot better to have them plug your ass in than doing it yourself!!! Maybe if they show you, where, etc.. but to do it on your own... I'd be very hesitant.

One of my close friends is a sound engineer and she hooks up patchers all the time if they ask nicely and promise to hook her up with a copy.  She will and has, however, beat the living shit out of some one trying to patch without asking her. 

haha! Sounds like one tough cunt!

[Tall Adam]

haha! Sounds like one tough cunt!

wow man, youre doin great makin friends around here. im sure our few female members would LOVE that comment.

[redseed]

It's apparent from the fact that you would post to this board and be so desperatley in need of advice that you haven't got a clue what you're doing.

One option  is to learn the make and model of the boards you're interested in and learn your self, good luck with that

The best advice you've gotten is to cozy up with some local soundguys.

If you try this without permision you're a greedy jack-ass in my book and you deserve the ass-kicking that  you're bound to recieve.

Actually, I did study the user guide of the Soundcraft 200b and that's how I figured out that I need to plug into the CR outs. Like I said before, I never would have plugged in randomly trying to get a feed, and no harm can be done by plugging the correct cables into a line out. The chances of that blowing the system are about 1 in a million. I just figured it would be easier to ask you guys before I spent hours researching. And no, the feed doesn't need to be turned on. That's only if it's one of the aux outs. I'm in a band, so I am buddies with some soundguys around town, and most times I do ask. It's really not that tough to stealth though. Sbs at smaller venues are very accessible.
And for all of the people who think SBs suck, think again. You've got to pick your performer. If it's a band with huge, loud amps you probably won't get a good board tape (due to the mix, obviously)...but if shit is quiet and baffled properly, or you have an acoustic performer you can get some amazing recordings off of the board. I got a STUNNING Wide Mouth Mason stealth SB this summer that I completely treasure, and no, I haven't traded it, never mind sold it. There are no other tapers in this town, so don't you guys worry about me ruining it for others either.

Ever hear of live and let live boys?

[Tall Adam]

Ever hear of live and let live boys?

no but i did once hear a song called "live and let die"

ok im done with this post. whatever man, you clearly dont get what were trying to say here.

[urobouros]

haha! Sounds like one tough cunt!

Built like a line-backer and tougher than nails.  She's not the typof person you want to fuck with.

There are no other tapers in this town, so don't you guys worry about me ruining it for others either.

Unless you're taping local bands, you stand an extremely good chance of ruining open taping of currently taper-friendly bands.

Ultimatley, you strike me as George Bush-esque.  You don't seem to give two shits what anyone else thinks or consider that your idea of right and wrong might be a little skewed.  

[moewu4u]

haha! Sounds like one tough cunt!

Built like a line-backer and tougher than nails.  She's not the typof person you want to fuck with.

Ultimatley, you strike me as George Bush-esque.  You don't seem to give two shits what anyone else thinks or consider that your idea of right and wrong might be a little skewed.  

+T for using "Bush-esque" in a sentence. And yes, this does sound like a very crappy idea.

[redseed]

NOOOOO!!!
I'm not like Bush!!!!!!!!!!!

I never said I was doing the RIGHT thing, just that the chances of fucking something up are extremely minimal. And yeah, it's a local band.

[sygdwm]

if its a local band why dont you get permission from said band or make good w/ the soundman. i tried to offer help in my 1st post by pointing you in the right direction. i did this once in a bar i worked at and new the soundguy really well and he helped me do it.

[redseed]

Well, I know they're recording a live album, so I think they may be against it, although they're very cool guys, acquainances of my band's from way back.
Trust me guys, no worries.

[sygdwm]

THEN JUST BUY THE FUCKIN ALBUM AND SUPPORT THEM!

[redseed]

Of course I will! I go to all of the shows, and have their 3 CDs! I'll buy their live album just like all of the rest!

[bluegrass_brad]

The control room feed has a separate volume control, often labled "monitor".  This is a studio board that is being used in live sound applications.  The control room out is used to send a mix to the control room in a studio. It has a seperate volume control for that send so that the volume can be adjusted to keep from overloading the preamp for the studio monitors. So you are at the mercy of the FOH anyway.  What your doing is a dick move and I can honestly say that if I were the FOH and caught you at it I would either A) just take your shit and put it outside on the sidewalk B) "accidently" step on the clothing it was concealed in while checking the back of the board or C) wait till the end of the show and as I saw someone walking up to retrieve said item go ahead and go through with choice B.  But as has been pointed out here you just dont get it. The fact that the band may be recording for a release just compounds it.  Your shady behavior most likely reflects your overall moral outlook....

[jhirte]

... kinda hard to figure out where that fine line is..

It's really not hard to figure out where the line is.  When you tap into someone else's equipment without permission, that is across the line of acceptability.

Sorry, hard to get my point accross while at work with people constantly calling.. (stupid users!).  Was meaning to say if you sell it that'd be beyond the line. Stealthing a board  I wouldn't consider stealing. .just ballsy. potential for clusterfuck too (as has been seen in the past).

Biggest thing to do: get to know your local sound people! Then no need to stealth a board!

[Lil Kim Jong-Il]

Sorry, hard to get my point accross while at work with people constantly calling.. (stupid users!).  Was meaning to say if you sell it that'd be beyond the line. Stealthing a board  I wouldn't consider stealing. .just ballsy. potential for clusterfuck too (as has been seen in the past).

Biggest thing to do: get to know your local sound people! Then no need to stealth a board!

I got your point about stealing.  You are right, maybe there are better analogies than theft but I didn't think of one.

I look at it from the perspective that if that guy sneaked into the section and patched into any one of our rigs, some of us would be plenty pissed and at some point the guy might get his ass kicked if he hosed someones rig.  The soundboard is even a worse case because it's someone's lively hood that he is putting risk.  It also puts our entire scene at risk.  One asshole gets caught doing this and then the club decides that no taping equipment is ever allowed in. 

I was not there to witness the event, so I will not post the details of the story told to me.  However, I know of a venue that banned taping after someone did exactly what this guy is suggesting.  Some fucker stealth patched the board and as a result the house tape didn't get recorded.  So that was it for taping at that venue and they became hostile toward tapers, regardless of the band's policy. 



 

[Josephine]

haha! Sounds like one tough cunt!

Wow . . . .  -t

[jhirte]

Sorry, hard to get my point accross while at work with people constantly calling.. (stupid users!).  Was meaning to say if you sell it that'd be beyond the line. Stealthing a board  I wouldn't consider stealing. .just ballsy. potential for clusterfuck too (as has been seen in the past).

Biggest thing to do: get to know your local sound people! Then no need to stealth a board!

I got your point about stealing.  You are right, maybe there are better analogies than theft but I didn't think of one.

I look at it from the perspective that if that guy sneaked into the section and patched into any one of our rigs, some of us would be plenty pissed and at some point the guy might get his ass kicked if he hosed someones rig.  The soundboard is even a worse case because it's someone's lively hood that he is putting risk.  It also puts our entire scene at risk.  One asshole gets caught doing this and then the club decides that no taping equipment is ever allowed in. 

I was not there to witness the event, so I will not post the details of the story told to me.  However, I know of a venue that banned taping after someone did exactly what this guy is suggesting.  Some fucker stealth patched the board and as a result the house tape didn't get recorded.  So that was it for taping at that venue and they became hostile toward tapers, regardless of the band's policy. 



 

Yeah, fucking over a board would be bad. You dont want to know how close I almost came to plugging in my P1 w/Phantom power on... WOAH! close!

[zhianosatch]

I think its kind of funny how everyone gets their panties in a bunch when someone talks about stealthing a sbd as if its morally wrong, but stealthing with mics is okay, right?... I obviously see the reasons why stealthing a sbd is a baaaad idea, but IMO its not any different than stealthing with mics... No need for - karma.

there's a big difference in the balls factor required to make a tape. someone patching out of a soundboard in a clandestine fashion has nuts of steel. lord knows i consider stealthing the board every time i go to the ventura theater but since i never go prepared to do it, it never happens. and soundboards usually eat ass anyway, but that's another story...
+T to the thread-starter for having the gazingas.

[redseed]

Thanks bro!
And props to you for being one of the few who isn't completely anal on here. This affects nobody else on this board!

[Tony B]

Thanks bro!
And props to you for being one of the few who isn't completely anal on here. This affects nobody else on this board!

Ah, but see, you're wrong there. Every time a person does dumb shit, it makes the Baby Jesus cry. And crying baby Jesuses affect me.

Happy Festivus.

[redseed]

And props to you Tony! You make baby Jesus laugh! Laughter makes the world a better place.

[pfife]

Thanks bro!
And props to you for being one of the few who isn't completely anal on here. This affects nobody else on this board!

It has the potential to fuck all of us right square in the arse.

Question:  what local band wouldn't let you tape off the soundboard?  I've never encountered a local band that won't let me tape, won't let me distribute - they are more flattered by it than anything.  Why don't you just ask the appropriate people?  If they say no, then worry about stealthing w/ mics?

[redseed]

I most likely will ask this time if the sound guy tonight is the one I know, I was more interested in case it's not a cool soundguy, or for other acts that may not be local.
Man, I've gotten some wicked board tapes, it really depends on the volume of the amps and whether it's a good soundguy who knows how to use reverb and shit properly. Don't be so quick to dismiss board tapes, because they can be WICKED sometimes.
Check out this stealth soundboard I snatched this summer. Untraded, uncirculated and will remain that way. Dig it boys, and if you like it (you will) check out the band. www.widemouthmason.com
mp3 clip:
http://www.redseed.com/WideMouthMason-Sugarcane-LiveAugust2004.mp3

[Tim]

Man, I've gotten some wicked board tapes, it really depends on the volume of the amps and whether it's a good soundguy who knows how to use reverb and shit properly.

you're partially right. It has a lot to do with the volume of the amps. As for a soundman not using effects properly, they are mixing for the room, not the tape.

[redseed]

For sure, but most local soundguys have shitty old school reverb whereas good touring bands will have the real good shit that sounds good on recording or in the room.
Did you dig that MP3? Not flat or dead at all. A perfect mix.

[BJ]

I have heard better sbds...nowhere near a perfect mix....The sound is very harsh/brittle...esp the vocal mix....
just my .02$ on the recording, but i dont like sbd's for the most part....

| Do agree with most...whether you pull a good sbd or not...its just not worth it...you have the potential for SO many problems, as llisted by others.

EDIT:  maybe should have something besides mp3..may help the sound...critical listening on mp3 sux

[urobouros]

It has the potential to fuck all of us right square in the arse.
[\quote]

Amen!

Question:  what local band wouldn't let you tape off the soundboard?  I've never encountered a local band that won't let me tape, won't let me distribute - they are more flattered by it than anything.  Why don't you just ask the appropriate people?  If they say no, then worry about stealthing w/ mics?
[\quote]

Here is Seattle, we have a thriving Blues scene, yet I have contacted 5 or 6 really cool local bands and they are all freaked out by the idea of their music being distributed.  In a few instances I have tried to explain the benefits of taping and trading but have nothing but more shit.  I suppose I might have more success approaching them at a gig and putting them on the spot.

[redseed]

Yeah, normally I really hate mp3s, but I've just used this one to help spread the word on this band to lovers of live music. I dig soundboard because you're actually recording the instruments, not just what the f'n PA speakers are putting out. You can hear the phlegm in a singers throat...you're ON the stage.
'And most of all I HATE audience chatterboxes! That goddamn din of underlying noise of a rude talking crowd. What happened to the days when people would  SHUT UP AND LISTEN?!

[greenone]

Yeah, people are so fucking rude...much worse than using equipment that doesn't belong to you...

[Tim]

For sure, but most local soundguys have shitty old school reverb whereas good touring bands will have the real good shit that sounds good on recording or in the room.

you don't know what you're talking about. It's just that simple.

[fsulloway]

>>>What happened to the days when people would  SHUT UP AND LISTEN?!<<<


Perhaps you should take your own advice?

[Lil Kim Jong-Il]

Is this thread actually for real or is this someone's alter-ego going for a troll?

[pfife]

And most of all I HATE audience chatterboxes! That goddamn din of underlying noise of a rude talking crowd. What happened to the days when people would  SHUT UP AND LISTEN?!

Yeah, ambience blowz.
 

[redseed]

For sure, but most local soundguys have shitty old school reverb whereas good touring bands will have the real good shit that sounds good on recording or in the room.

you don't know what you're talking about. It's just that simple.

hehehe
Please educate me Mr. Expert!
Tell me all about it, Dick Wang, Ph.D

[pfife]

For sure, but most local soundguys have shitty old school reverb whereas good touring bands will have the real good shit that sounds good on recording or in the room.

you don't know what you're talking about. It's just that simple.

hehehe
Please educate me Mr. Expert!
Tell me all about it, Dick Wang, Ph.D

tim rulz.  You suck.

-t

[BJ]

For sure, but most local soundguys have shitty old school reverb whereas good touring bands will have the real good shit that sounds good on recording or in the room.

you don't know what you're talking about. It's just that simple.

hehehe
Please educate me Mr. Expert!
Tell me all about it, Dick Wang, Ph.D

have you ever made anything go BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM!!!! ?

[redseed]

Posted by Lee:
George- there's a patchbay to the right of the soundboard (if you're facing the stage) that has 4 XLR outs and 2 1/4" outs I believe (it's a mono board).  You could easily stealth a board plug out of that while Skip (the house sound guy) is working on stage.  I may or may not have done that before

Otherwise, it's guerrilla stealth in hostile territory, especially at a WK show.  I'll go without taping before I bring anything more than board patch cables and my deck into that hellhole.

[redseed]

Posted by Rokpunk:
Was this the Camp Creek (I think thats what it was called) Festival in PA? I might just have the stealthed soundboard copy, if you are looking.

[redseed]

Posted by jhirte:
Quasi (got a stealth soundboard at the instore this year!)

[cm]

y look ma... r little dickseed is outing people...

[urobouros]

He's kind of funny at this point.  This is the "everybody else is doing it" argument so popular with children 

[rocksuitcase]

Redseed,
YOU SUCK. period.

I have been a taper for over 20 years AND used to own a live sound company for 8 of those years.  If any one ever patched in to my boards with out my permission they would have had their legs broken by the bouncer(s).
Most sound companies sign contracts withthe venue and/or the band explicitly stating what is OK and what is not OK at their shows.  I am SURE someone stealing a patch would violate the contract.  Of course, since your mama never taught you manners, you wouldn't understand.

[jhirte]

Posted by jhirte:
Quasi (got a stealth soundboard at the instore this year!)

damn straight. was SPDIF digi patch though. not much chance of blowing something up.

[bmr]

Oh hey, 12 hours went by...there's a link I need to go click again...

Just because one person somewhere one time a year stealthed a soundboard doesn't mean it's something you should be pulling or trying to pull.

To me, and I think a lot of people would agree with me here...this is akin to selling boots on ebay. The proverbial bad seed who ruins it for everybody else.

[Ed.]

so i'm listening to the mp3 and i bet it'd sound better from the audience, but thats just me.  the vocals are too loud and you can't hear the instruments like you should.  and no offense, i like to hear people clap and praise the band between songs.

if you have to stealth a sbd from a local band, then you're not talking to the right people and/or the right people probably think you're a dick like half the people reading this thread.

edit:  buy some mics and a decent preamp/adc and make tapes for real.

[Tall Adam]

i know i said i was done with this post but i just gotta say...its gotta mean something when you're -t count is almost double your post count 

we better watch out though boys, id predict someones gonna come after us with a vengence when he gets to the 50 post mark...

(a board i used to use a lot wouldnt let you post anymore if you got below -10 karma points...)

[bagtagsell]

One time when I went to the bathroom I came back to see that someon had unplugged my D8, and plugged in theirs. It made me so mad.  Oh wait that didn't happen, but like I learned in preschool "keep your hands to yourself".

[NewHomebrew]

don't you think they might notice the extra cables/plugs?  to the untrained eye it is a tangle of spaghetti, but to the recordist it is a familiar roadmap.

[Brian Skalinder]

There are no other tapers in this town, so don't you guys worry about me ruining it for others either.

All too typical short-sighted, narrow-minded perspective.  When others reference the possibility of ruining open taping, they're not speaking specifically about your favorite venue, or even your city.  They're talking about a much broader community - in this case, primarily North America.  It puts taping in general at risk not only at the specific venue, but within the city, and nation-wide.  How so?  Local venues talk to one another and if one encounters bad experiences with tapers, they'll share the story and others may adopt a strict non-taping policy for fear of encountering a similar situation.  Bands tour - a bad experience in one venue, in one city, may lead them to change their policy outright.  The band may, in turn, relate their negative experiences to other bands who may alter their policies, as well.

In other words:  one's actions can have repercussions far beyond the immediate locale and impact far more than the few individuals initially involved in an incident.  Consider the bigger picture.

Check out this stealth soundboard I snatched this summer. Untraded, uncirculated and will remain that way.

I find the vocals too loud relative to music and the drums too low in the mix for my tastes.  It doesn't sound bad (except for the crappy MP3 compression absolutely decimating the HF).  But I can live with the slightly off mix, it's the comple flatness, deadness of the recording that I really don't like.

Dig it boys, and if you like it (you will) check out the band.

A bit presumptuous of you to say I will like it as you know nothing about my musical preferences.  Frankly, I didn't really care for the band at all.  I'm sure the band appreciates your gung-ho attitude, though.  At any rate, thanks for the sample - it was at least worth a casual listen, never know when one might find a great new band.

Did you dig that MP3? Not flat or dead at all. A perfect mix.

Not especially, no.  Again, not bad, but hardly perfect.  Not trying to be a dick, just trying to be honest.  And I find it completely flat and dead, as in no sense of space, ambience, energy.  The flatness and deadness bother me much more than the mix itself.

[sickrick43]

For the record: the soundboard(s) I personally stealthed (and have mentioned here), were in the club that I WORKED SOUND at - and were setup in such a way that they would not interfere with the PA or the performance (and with the knowlege of the OWNER of the club).  The "stealth patch" was used a number of times for "foaming at the mouth/not in a million years/EXTREMELY TAPER UNFRIENDLY acts".  Open taping acts were taped with mic's, or a board patch with the artists PERMISSION.

Other "attempts" were made when I was running FOH for the opener (at various other venue's where I had PERMISSION and ACCESS to the console), and I just kinda "left myself plugged in and rolling" after my act finished.

Having worked in the industry myself for a number of years, I would NEVER PRESUME to just walk up to someone's console and patch.  EVER!  Aside from the bad karma it brings down on ALL TAPERS (regardless of whether the act is taper-unfriendly or not), it's just bad fucking manners.

I will not even get into the "archiving public performance" argument for stealth-mic'ing a show that's a No Taping event.  I don't stealth mic because I'm LAZY, and it's hard to hide a TLM-170's & a V3 - plus I'm more interested in photographing and can't be nailed into one spot to roll.

We could also get into FOB taping bands that request we DON'T.  Again, it's a MOOT POINT.

Walking up to someone's console (that you don't KNOW) and laying in a hidden patch is WRONG - no grey area's here - black and white.  Arguing with everyone here trying to JUSTIFY IT is just plain DUMB (hell, I even -T'd you, and I NEVER -T ANYONE)...

Rick

[redseed]

 
Hey boys!

I patched in, and it sounds great! Must say I'm quite pleased! PM me if anybody wants to hear a copy.

[Steve J]

So much for the benefit of the doubt... -T

[Josephine]

Some people just don't get it ~ pathetic.
 
-t, dude.

[redseed]

Thats an awful lot of effort for only pulling a sbd recording

Actually, I prefer plugging into the board because it's less effort. With mics you've gotta worry about where you're standing and keeping quiet...with the board you can be super loud if you like.

[sygdwm]

douchebag - fuckin t

[pfife]

Hey boys!

I patched in, and it sounds great! Must say I'm quite pleased! PM me if anybody wants to hear a copy.

only if I can get a low bitrate MP3 from you.  I need to be able to hear it in all its glory.

[Evil Taper]

Feel the wrath of the tapers when you compromise everyones happiness.  Download some GD SBDs if you're a gung ho soundboarder, at least the majority of those recordings are worth listening to...must say alot of the GD boards sound much more perfect than other bands do.  But from the mind of a wise man:

SUCK IT!!!!!

[1st set only]

GO AWAY!

[tibbsa]

Here is Seattle, we have a thriving Blues scene, yet I have contacted 5 or 6 really cool local bands and they are all freaked out by the idea of their music being distributed.  In a few instances I have tried to explain the benefits of taping and trading but have nothing but more shit.  I suppose I might have more success approaching them at a gig and putting them on the spot.

I've run into the same thing here in Ottawa.  I have contacted a few individuals / small groups, and they got rather annoyed, saying that they would not, under any circumstances, allow taping, and neither would anyone they know who has a CD out, since that effectively kills sales. 

I tried to explain, but suffice it to say, there was no convincing them...

[urobouros]

I've tried different phrasing, but essentially let them know I have no intention of distributing the show unless they specifically ask me to do so.  Most bands that I've contacted are nice enough about telling me no.  I did have one guy get fairly pissed that I would even ask and never esponded when I gave him the Dead, Phish, and Dave Matthews as examples of taper-friendly bands that thrived despite open taping policies.  I think the RIIA lawsuits have as much a negative effect in terms of the stigma created for any type of free distribution as do any specific experiences.  Oh well.  I'll keep trying!!

[cleantone]

WOW, I just read this whole thread and need to chime in...

First, are we sure this guy is real? I guess the MP3 he posted is proof that he is. I'm listening to it, it's okay, not the perfect mix you advertise. The verb and delay length is kinda gross on these loud vocals, it need to tail off quicker. But in the club it was probably fine. The "best" part of this SBD is the out of key Bob Marley "Woy-oh" call outs with no audience reply on tape! As someone else pointed out the drums don't work well in this mix, the vocals make it almost unlistenable to me. The Bass sounds has no "air". The lead is too low sometimes. The guitarist sounds okay but I am not a new fan by ANY means. Anyway to the point of this post...

The biggest problem that you create by this is as others have pointed out, your making a bad name for tapers. Bottom line. If you care about the hobby, please cut the bullshit. You went ahead with your stealth after ALL of us tried to reason with you on why you shouldn't.

Beyond that, only one person here touched on an important issue.

You dont want to know how close I almost came to plugging in my P1 w/Phantom power on... WOAH! close!

If you were to use XLR's and take a 2nd main output, group output, or matrix output and send phantom power, some boards would need repair. I think some can "deal" so to speak but non the less thats a definite no no!

Your "monitor output" you decided to go with could give you the worst recording ever. Thats the same signal path as the headphone jack. So if this FOH guy (who seems competant) was to use any PFL/solo it would "go to tape" giving you a few seconds of only bass, or gtr, or snr, or whatever he solos. That would sound like crap. I use PFL's all the time when I do sound.

On boards I'm familiar with the only output that always has signal is the tape output RCA jacks. Sometimes they have a trim, most times they don't. I guess smaller boards that have XLR and 1/4" mains usually have signal to both equally. In most cases taking feeds from any other output requires routing on the board. Whether it's a trim know or matrix routing with buttons. Maybe sometimes the signal has been routed there already and you've lucked out. But a group out, matrix out, sometimes 2nd main require routing from the enigineer. Do you plan to go push faders when he goes out for a smoke or to the bathroom too?

I can see this guy behind the rack trying to take feeds from house EQ, or system compressors too... You should seriously consider NOT doing this from now on. If you don't have permission, you shouldn't touch the console. Even if you DID know what you were doing.

-T!!