Topic: Zoom F8

[stevetoney]

Channel ganging and rotation-limited delimited (non-motorized) input level pots simply do not work well together.

OK, I understand your comment now and this conclusion.

All I was suggesting is that, once channel ganging is engaged, regardless of whether the knobs are delimited or not (non-motorized), you'll be monitoring levels based on what you see on the input screen, not based on what your knobs are set at, so at that point whether the knobs are delimited or not is kinda moot since in either case the knobs aren't telling you anything meaningful.  At least when they aren't ganged that isn't the case.  Since I've usually operated my multi-track recording in non-ganged mode, I've liked having the delimited knobs.  I totally see your point about them being in 'false positions' though. 

[pohaku]

Any manufacturer can make a cheap recorder with a bunch of "features." Unless you don't care about what you're doing, the only thing that really matters is quality control and reliability. I'm not suggesting that the Zoom doesn't have that -- I've never used it -- but I'm amused at the bandwagon-jumping that accompanies almost every new recorder release by almost every manufacturer. There's a reason why the M10 and SD units (in particular) pop up over and over again among the people who are actually out recording the most, while lots of other things don't similarly stand the test of time.

If a manufacturer is matching the feature set of something else that costs 2-5X as much, it causes me to at least question what corners they cut to attain that price point. But who knows, recorder prices do fall, and sometimes you get lucky. Just my $0.02.

No question that Zoom's implementation of their feature set and the reliability of the machine will be important.  Given the price of the unit, however, there is probably some flex in what might be acceptable in that regard.  I agree that I am not really expecting SD quality at that price, but I am more likely to make some (limited) accomodations for how well the unit works and quality control, than on noisy preamps.

It will be real interesting to see some real world hands-on reviews, as opposed to the feature recitation fluff that is currently in all the trade magazines.  They certainly have put a marketing push on in the last couple weeks since all the magazines and blogs have articles.

[Gutbucket]

Two separate and diverging dynamics are at play with regards to the cost for quality in this category of things:

Support, physical build-quality, and quality analog circuitry are what cost money.  These things either tend to get more costly or at least do not get much less costly over time.  However, outside of the analog input section (read: the preamps, though even cheap gear tends to have far better analog input stages they a decade or two back) most of the sound quality and features follow much more closely with other digital devices.. Moore's law and all that.  In light of that it's not surprising that sound quality and features which were unheard of only a decade ago become increasingly available at very low cost as long as the device can leverage economy of scale and be inexpensively mass produced overseas.

This trend will certainly continue.  The SoundDevice category of manufacturers will increasingly be valued for differentiation on service, build-quality, and reliability, and perhaps by the ability to more carefully target the needs of their smaller nitch markets, but less and less so for differentiation based on sound quality alone, against the Tascam, and Zoom type category of manufacturers.

[connloyalist]

I'm not sure if this topic or the "Batteries" section is the best place for the following, so here goes.

I own two 20,000 mAh Li-Ion batteries, one of which is a Power Gorilla (very nice piece of equipment) which I use to power my current DR-680 (Mk I). The Power Gorilla comes with a whole bunch of different plugs, mostly for various laptops, cell phones and such. Judging by the pics and text of the Zoom F8, one of those plugs should fit the 12v AC Adapter connector on the back. And I expect that will work fine.

However, the 4-pin hirose connector on the side apparently can be setup in such a way that it automatically switches to internal batteries when voltage gets low. So it would be nice to be able to hook a Li-Ion battery up to that.

Any suggestions on large Li-Ion batteries that come with a hirose connector? Alternatively, are there adapters from the laptop style connector to a hirose connector? Unfortunately, I soldering isn't an option for me (I don't have the equipment). Other ideas?

Regards, Christine

[connloyalist]

Oh, and something else on the Zoom F8.

From the pics it looks like there are no hardware buttons to turn phantom power on and off, but you will have to dig into a menu to do that? Or at least use the touch screen? I am really looking forward to reading the manual on this thing.

Regards, Christine

[carlbeck]

Christine, anyone of the numerous cable makers here will be able to make you a cable once the deck is available. Hirose connectors are small making them difficult to work with but once the pin assignments are known it will be an easy fix for you.

[stevetoney]

^ what Carl said...this is easy pickin's for one of our cable guys.  The specs on the hirose are already stated on their website as...

HIROSE HR10A-7R-4S 4-pin connector
(1 pin: −, 4 pin: +), 9–16 V

You'd just need to know which connector you want on the battery end so that they can install the right connector to mate up properly with your battery.

For your second question, phantom power is menu selectable, just as it is on a number of other recorders.  For example, on the DR70D, each XLR input has an optional phantom menu item with the three menu options being off, 24v, or 48v.

[404 Not Found]

Oh, and something else on the Zoom F8.

From the pics it looks like there are no hardware buttons to turn phantom power on and off, but you will have to dig into a menu to do that? Or at least use the touch screen? I am really looking forward to reading the manual on this thing.

Regards, Christine

The H6 and H5 have the phantom power setup in a menu setting of which is very easy to navigate.  I can only assume from the info and pics available that this will be the same for the F8.

[pohaku]

Christine, anyone of the numerous cable makers here will be able to make you a cable once the deck is available. Hirose connectors are small making them difficult to work with but once the pin assignments are known it will be an easy fix for you.

I expect that once this recorder is released, there will be a rush on Hirose power cables here.  Pretty much everyone who buys an F8 will want one and supply will meet demand.

[404 Not Found]

If you happen to have a few NP-1 NiCd batteries available, it's easy to get and or purchase an Audio NP-1 Cup Adapter with 4-pin Hirose Connection.  They are not all that expensive or hard to find. Plenty of people on this forum that can make the adapters as well for different battery-power solutions.  Video Cam & SD users will have no problems, as most already power their devices with an outboard Hirose 4-pin connector, pin-4 = (+), pin-1 = (-) power connection

[connloyalist]

The H6 and H5 have the phantom power setup in a menu setting of which is very easy to navigate.  I can only assume from the info and pics available that this will be the same for the F8.

I don't own an H5 or H6, but just checked the H6 manual. If I understand correctly, to turn phantom power on/off you have to press a menu button, then sequentially select "INPUT&OUTPUT", "Phantom", and "On/Off". And that for each channel. So if you are recording 8 mics on an F8, to me that sounds like quite a bit of scolling and clicking around (no offense!). At least it isn't as quick as on a DR-680 where it's a flip of a (hardware) switch.

Regards, Christine

[404 Not Found]

If being difficult means that it can take up to 10 seconds to make active or deactive for PH, then it may be an issue LOL

I have a H6 and I can scroll into the phantom power in less time than I can on a Sound Device 552 or 664.  I also can activate or deactivate the PH in 1/2 the time as when I was using a Tascam DR-70D.  Sounds like you have your mind made up on the recorder and that is fine. 

I would suggest going the Tascam 680 route if the PH time to activate on a touch screen menu is a problem....no offense! I find it very fast on the H6 to get to and adjust; as well as they have one touch screen button option in the power settings for phantom for activating all or deactivating all...takes me maybe 10 seconds at the most.

I will be happy to give a full review once my pre-ordered F8 arrives. 

[H₂O]

This recorder is designed for Sound Professionals running in a bag in the field where most controls need to be on the front of the unit. You will typically have wireless receivers on the top or bottom of the unit in the bag.


Due to the size of the unit it doesn't make a whole lot of sense cluttering up the front with various switches - most Professional recorders don't have phantom power switches but instead rely on menu settings (Sound Devices 7 series, Sonosax, Aeta, etc)  To Note - Some pro recorders do have assignable function buttons.

The DR-680 was not designed to be a Professional recorder although many people use it for that.

I have an hs-p82 and only switches on the unit other then the on switch are line/-25 mic/mic switches

When doing professional work it may even be advantageous not to have these (switches) where you might accidentally trip one and kill your recording.

Also your settings are saved during power offs so you can set everything up at home and when out and about point and click.

[connloyalist]

I actually like what I have seen and read of the Zoom F8 very much and intend to seriously look at getting one. And I do realize that the DR-680 isn't a professional piece of equipment

The thing on my mind is that I am sometimes asked by the conductor of my band to record bits and pieces of a rehearsal, but to turn things off in between (I guess he doesn't want his comments to be recorded). So I might record 5 minutes, then nothing for 20 minutes, then another 5 minutes. To save on battery I usually turn (at least) phantom off in between. After all it's just the flick of two switches for the 4 mics I usually use. On the other hand, I know from experience that the 20,000 mAh battery I use is more than enough to last 2 hours with 4 mics on phantom power.

There are many things about the F8 that look very promising and definite improvements over the DR-680. Such as level controls on each channel. The dual SD cards. And 8 XLR inputs of course, with phantom power individually selectable (as opposed to per two channels)

I am very much looking forward to your review. One of the large audio webshops where I live says they will be available in 13 weeks. That's about mid October?

Regards, Christine

[2manyrocks]

Zoom has shrewdly positioned the F8 to look attractive, but whether it is in fact an improvement over the 680 audio wise remains to be determined.   At least the 680 allows you to gang pairs of mics.  The original 680 was going for $429 or so just a few months ago when the F8 was announced at $999.  That puts the F8 about half the price of the Roland R-88, previously the least expensive 8 track I know of with time code.  How well the F8 will hold time code sync is also something people will be watching along with the wifi features.

What I don't understand is how they keep cramming more into recorders at lesser prices, yet microphone prices seem to keep going up.