Topic: Milab DC-196

[bsny]

I'm shopping for a versatile pair of mics. These would be used for solo acoustic instruments as well as small acoustic ensembles -- bluegrass and such. This pair would also be used to record electrified live shows from time to time.

I'm thinking that I'd use omni and card settings mostly.  The multipattern DC-196 is really no more expensive than a lot of the better small diaphragm condensers, especially when multiple capsules are considered.  It is, reportedly, excellent for acoustic instruments.  The omni setting is said to be very nice, too.  But how would these perform when recording live shows?

[muj]

contact tnjazz ...he runs a pair

[TNJazz]

The DC196 mics sound very nice recording live shows.  I've only had a chance to try cardioid but the results were quite good.

Highly recommended mics.  The pair I have is for sale, if you're interested.

[J.T.L]

Sexiest LDs on the market.

[TNJazz]

You bet.  And small enough that they both fit nicely in a Pelican 1040.   

How cool is that?   

[J.T.L]

You bet.  And small enough that they both fit nicely in a Pelican 1040.   

How cool is that?   

uber

[TNJazz]

You bet.  Sure wish I could keep these mics.   

[muj]

GREAT MICS FO SHO!

[bsny]

TNJazz:
I'm somehow unable to get those codes entered properly for private messaging. Feel free to contact me via e-mail bsny@cox.net. Please let me know the condition of these mics and what you are asking.

Thanks,
Bill

[muj]

there are pics of those mics on this site somewhere....

[flipp]

one pic here http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,85379.msg1441808.html#msg1441808 and another at the top of the next page but I seem to recall another (large) pic with both of them across the palm of a hand

blumlein on a vert bar http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,111000.msg1483734.html#msg1483734

size comparison with a shempz http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,111000.msg1483013.html#msg1483013

[page]

one pic here http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,85379.msg1441808.html#msg1441808 and another at the top of the next page but I seem to recall another (large) pic with both of them across the palm of a hand

over at gearslutz, i saw it last night. I was trying to figure out just how big the hand was... 

[TNJazz]

one pic here http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,85379.msg1441808.html#msg1441808 and another at the top of the next page but I seem to recall another (large) pic with both of them across the palm of a hand

over at gearslutz, i saw it last night. I was trying to figure out just how big the hand was... 

Seriously - these mics are the same length as a typical SDC (shorter than an AKG 460) and they're only a little wider.  Let me see if I can find a common household object and take a picture of one next to it.  Any suggestions?

[flipp]

a ruler or tape measure

I added a couple of links to my original post for two other images I found, I'm not familiar with the shempz so  that doesn't do me any good but I do have a vert bar so I got a pretty good idea from that pic but a ruler or tape measure would clear up any questions

[TNJazz]

OK, here you go.

[page]

must.... resist...... the.. sexiness......

[stirinthesauce]

must.... resist...... the.. sexiness......

even sexier up close and in your hands.  I had extreme gear lust when I held these.

[ArchivalAudio]

OK, here you go.

mmmmmm
nice pics
wow, they are compact!
very cool
-- Ian

[F.O.Bean]

AMAZING LOOKING MICS!!!! I bet they sound even SWEETER

If they only had a frickin hypercard setting

[ArchivalAudio]

I was looking at the Milab site
and they have this to say abou thte rectangular caps

      


The Milab 2700 full condenser capsule, uses two halves which are mounted into one piece to a "Rectangular large dual membrane capsule". The principle of such a dual, back to back, membrane condenser was first described in 1935 by Braunmuhl and Weber (article in Hochfrequenztechnik und Elektroakustik). Each side of the capsule has a cardioid pattern. By adding or subtracting the two signals all patterns from omni to figure eight are obtainable.

Typical 1 inch circular capsule next to the Milab 2700Almost all manufactured microphone capsules in the world are circular. Milab Microphones has always aimed to make small microphones with a big sound. The smaller microphone was possible to attain with the unique rectangular capsule. It is more than 1 inch in the length/high direction, but it is much smaller in the width direction. With these mechanical specifications, the microphone body gets an overall smaller size.

and more too...
here
http://www.milabmic.com/content.asp?page=capsule

you can read much more there
they sound awesome!

[boojum]

The DC196 mics sound very nice recording live shows.  I've only had a chance to try cardioid but the results were quite good.

Highly recommended mics.  The pair I have is for sale, if you're interested.

Why are you selling them??

[TNJazz]

The DC196 mics sound very nice recording live shows.  I've only had a chance to try cardioid but the results were quite good.

Highly recommended mics.  The pair I have is for sale, if you're interested.

Why are you selling them??

They don't actually belong to me and I can't really afford to shell out the cash to buy them at the moment.  So unless things change in the next couple of weeks I'm trying to help the owner of the mics make a sale.  If things start looking up more I may just say what the hell and hold onto them for myself, but at this precise moment it's not an option unfortunately.

AMAZING LOOKING MICS!!!! I bet they sound even SWEETER

If they only had a frickin hypercard setting

If you NEED hypers, you're doing it wrong.   

[ArchivalAudio]

AMAZING LOOKING MICS!!!! I bet they sound even SWEETER

If they only had a frickin hypercard setting

If you NEED hypers, you're doing it wrong.   

I agree--
--- I personally don't dig what I perceive  is the hollow sound of hypers
- No offense bean
But I'd take Cards or even omnis any day over  the hyper recordings I have heard - but the fact you can run Blumlein with the figure 8's is even better!


peace out

grooovy baby
groovy

[page]

AMAZING LOOKING MICS!!!! I bet they sound even SWEETER

If they only had a frickin hypercard setting

If you NEED hypers, you're doing it wrong.   

I agree--
--- I personally don't dig what I perceive  is the hollow sound of hypers
- No offense bean
But I'd take Cards or even omnis any day over  the hyper recordings I have heard - but the fact you can run Blumlein with the figure 8's is even better!

I'll trade a hypercardioid for a fig8 any day of the week. Even in less then desirable conditions, when running midside, I can get a hyper-style pattern out of a figure8 and cardioid.

I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more midside. 

What do a set of these run for? I've seen $2k for a set, anywhere cheaper (for future reference, I don't have that sort of scratch right now and won't for a while).

[muj]

BLUMLEIN!!!!!

[kbergend]

Here's a 24/48 sample of the DC-196s running mid-side at Grace Potter's NYC show at Webster Hall last night, for those who are interested.

http://kbergend.tripod.com/BigWhiteGate_milab.wav

This was recorded from the balcony rail (60' out, 20' up, 12' LoC) into an Oade R-44.  Decoded with VoxengoMSED with the mid gain at 0 and the side gain at +9dB, otherwise unedited.

Distant miking a bass-heavy show is not exactly what these things are made for, but this does show how naturally they capture female vocals (which I tape quite a lot of).  And it really is cool that they fit in a Pelican 1040!  Thanks to Dirk for brokering the sale.

http://kbergend.tripod.com/milabs01.jpg

http://kbergend.tripod.com/milabs03.jpg


I'll be recording some bluegrass next weekend, planning to try them out

BLUMLEIN!!!!!

[TNJazz]

Beautiful!

I like those shockmounts.

[kbergend]

Beautiful!

I like those shockmounts.

Yeah, I thought the donuts were a little too snug, and these Shure A55HMs fit them perfectly.  Mics snap right in and out, but they're still nice and secure.

[dactylus]

Beautiful!

I like those shockmounts.

Yeah, I thought the donuts were a little too snug, and these Shure A55HMs fit them perfectly.  Mics snap right in and out, but they're still nice and secure.

They are beautiful!!

 

[TNJazz]

Beautiful!

I like those shockmounts.

Yeah, I thought the donuts were a little too snug, and these Shure A55HMs fit them perfectly.  Mics snap right in and out, but they're still nice and secure.

I looked for something like those and I couldn't find anything readily available stateside, that's why I went for the standard A55 donuts.  Good to know for future reference, because I miss these mics and I'm going to have to pick up another pair for myself in a couple of months...

[Gutbucket]

http://kbergend.tripod.com/milabs03.jpg

^^^^
On a dorky technical note I'll mention that due to the unusual rectangular shape of the capsule, the ideal orientation for the mid mic would be vertical.  The directional patterns of this mic should be more uniform as the frequency rises in the plane perpendicular to the mic body, with a sharper null, and sources located above and below the vertically oriented mic should be attenuated a bit more than would be the case with a typical round diaphragm fig-8. Another way to think about it is that directionally, this mic should behave like a small diaphragm mic in the horizontal plane and like a very large diaphragm mic in the vertical plane (with the mic oriented vertically).

It's similar in concept to the very wide wide but truncated top and bottom dispersion of a line-array speaker or a tweeter shaped like this-


That's a feature, not a bug and could be used to your advantage.

Never having used or heard these myself, I have no idea how much of a difference orientation of the mic really makes.  I might not make much difference at all.  Just sayin'

I'll be recording some bluegrass next weekend, planning to try them out

BLUMLEIN!!!!!

I'd love to hear the BLUMLEIN!!!!! samples.  These mics are really intriguing.

[kbergend]

On a dorky technical note I'll mention that due to the unusual rectangular shape of the capsule, the ideal orientation for the mid mic would be vertical.  The directional patterns of this mic should be more uniform as the frequency rises in the plane perpendicular to the mic body, with a sharper null, and sources located above and below the vertically oriented mic should be attenuated a bit more than would be the case with a typical round diaphragm fig-8. Another way to think about it is that directionally, this mic should behave like a small diaphragm mic in the horizontal plane and like a very large diaphragm mic in the vertical plane (with the mic oriented vertically).

It's similar in concept to the very wide wide but truncated top and bottom dispersion of a line-array speaker or a tweeter shaped like this-


That's a feature, not a bug and could be used to your advantage.

Never having used or heard these myself, I have no idea how much of a difference orientation of the mic really makes.  I might not make much difference at all.  Just sayin'

I'll be recording some bluegrass next weekend, planning to try them out

BLUMLEIN!!!!!

I'd love to hear the BLUMLEIN!!!!! samples.  These mics are really intriguing.

Thanks!  I knew about the differential in off-axis rejection in the two planes of the capsule, but it didn't even occur to me to mount the mid mic vertically.  I'll have to try that next time.  In this particular case, sadly, it probably would've done more harm than good since I had so much chatter on the left side of me on the balcony that I had to use the pull made with my other pair (AKG 483 pointed straight at the stacks) as the recording of record.  Webster Hall is a pretty awful place to tape.

Considerably better is Club Passim in Cambridge.  I tried running the mics Blumlein right in front of their stage last night for Session Americana's holiday shows. 



You can download a 24/48 sample from here:

http://kbergend.tripod.com/SantaClausIsComing.wav

Merry Christmas to me!    I really love the image, you can pretty much tell where everyone was sitting (at this point in the show there were 9 people having fun on that little stage). This source will be matrixed with the soundboard to bring out the vocals.

[Teen Wolf Blitzer]

What's the cost on these for a pair?  They are calling me.   

[kbergend]

What's the cost on these for a pair?  They are calling me.   

Got mine used, Full Compass has them listed for $1K each.

http://www.fullcompass.com/product/362414.html

[J.T.L]

What's the cost on these for a pair?  They are calling me.   

[Gutbucket]

You can download a 24/48 sample from here:

http://kbergend.tripod.com/SantaClausIsComing.wav

Blumleiniscious!

I dig these mics. The same vertical orientation deal applies to them in blumlein, though as mentioned above, I'm not sure how much it matters in reality. We all know that in the real world, particulars of the situation trump theoretical pattern optimization.  Arranging them vertically would certainly make for a taller setup than the one in your photo, though they'd be nearly as skinny as a bean pole.  I'd speculate that the potential audible issue to listen for of when arranging them horizontally in blumlein would be would be less high frequency information in the center of the sound stage.  You'd have to know the on stage arrangement to listen for that.. and maybe compare to a similar recording mic'd vertically. 

Any way you slice it these are nice mics. I'll be keeping my ear open for them.

[ArchivalAudio]

these would be very sweet!

join Team Milab
here:  http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,114343.0.html

peaceful holidays to all
-- Ian

[kbergend]

You can download a 24/48 sample from here:

http://kbergend.tripod.com/SantaClausIsComing.wav

Blumleiniscious!

I dig these mics. The same vertical orientation deal applies to them in blumlein, though as mentioned above, I'm not sure how much it matters in reality. We all know that in the real world, particulars of the situation trump theoretical pattern optimization.  Arranging them vertically would certainly make for a taller setup than the one in your photo, though they'd be nearly as skinny as a bean pole.  I'd speculate that the potential audible issue to listen for of when arranging them horizontally in blumlein would be would be less high frequency information in the center of the sound stage.  You'd have to know the on stage arrangement to listen for that.. and maybe compare to a similar recording mic'd vertically. 

Skinny or not, mounting vertical in this case might indeed have caused some real world issues, since I only gained permission to tape these shows with the promise that I wouldn't obstruct any patrons' view.  The main reason I bought these mics rather than a less expensive pair of AT4050s is their unobtrusiveness.  At any rate, I have no complaints about the way this pull sounds with the mics horizontal!  But I will try them vertical when the opportunity presents itself. 

[audBall]

Do these ship new with shockmounts? Any thoughts on the Milab mount itself?  I'm sure the shockmounted capsule helps, but the mic mount doesn't look to offer much leeway. 

I sold my LDs a long time ago and said I'd stick with SDs, but these are sooo tempting.  Good thing I can't afford them right now.   

[kbergend]

Do these ship new with shockmounts? Any thoughts on the Milab mount itself?  I'm sure the shockmounted capsule helps, but the mic mount doesn't look to offer much leeway. 

I sold my LDs a long time ago and said I'd stick with SDs, but these are sooo tempting.  Good thing I can't afford them right now.   

I think Milab sells stereo pairs in a wooden case including shock mounts (or used to, anyway), but I haven't seen the kit offered in the U.S.  The single mics come in a leatherette box with a standard mic clip and wind screen.  I wouldn't depend on the standard clip in most situations I tape in, the internal insulation notwithstanding.