Topic: Help me spend 10k

[meatballs]

Ok so here we go -- I have 10k to spend I'd prefer to spend less and definetly not more. I am asking for the forms help in regards to helping me build a benchmark rig. Benchmark meaning uber space station. In the world of cars we'd be looking at Maserati's, Ferrari's etc etc.

That said -- I'm open to all advice as long as you can back up wtf your saying. A suggestion on where to purchase the equipment is also helpfull. I am open to A+ quality used equipment.

I am currently looking at Sound Devices for the deck and Neumann TLM-170R's mics. I will also need batteries, stand, cables, and a possible pre-amp. Damn is this possible with 10k?

I will be recording live concerts anywhere from stadium size to small coffee bars both indoor and outdoor. Music tastes ranging from campground Bluegrass to Speed Metal.

Additionally, I have also taken on a new interest in recording outer space mixed with the songs of hump back whales. Any help appreciated..........

[rokpunk]

10k is pretty reasonable. how bout a 7xx deck and a Soundfield mic?
if i t was my 10k, i'd buy a splitter snake, a multitrack, and a console and record correctly.

[Kevin Straker]

http://www.aaton.com/products/sound/cantar/

[ghellquist]

Sorry, the cantar alone is above 10k.

Suggestions from me, all battle proved (basically what I use myself).

Sound Devices 702    (mine is a 722, but nowadays it is better going on memory cards)
   extra memory cards (32G variety)
   extra batteries, largest size
   carrying bag
Stereo mic Schoeps MSTC64   
   http://www.schoeps.de/E-2004/ortf-stereo.html#mstc64
   BBG windscreens and windjammers
   30 foot stereo cable + whip end
AT8415 shock mounts
Sennheiser HD280 headphones
Manfrotto (Bogen?) stand BG004AC

This should leave you some headway into more mics (mics are the single most important  part of the kit). Some ideas.

Sennheiser MKH30 + MKH40
   Perhaps with a Rycote Windshield (zeppelin).

A pair of omni mics, say Sennheiser MKH20.

My two cents, all of the stuff above are things I own and gladly use myself.

//Gunnar

[salmonite]

http://www.sonopak.com/index.html

[meatballs]

I would also like to add that I prefer as few connections as possible. i.e. when I list a source I'd prefer to refrain from using lots of > > > > > > > > > > > >


 I like the sound device system -- any feedback on the built in pre-amp; the Cantar is beautiful -- anyone know where I can find one used?

[rokpunk]

I would also like to add that I prefer as few connections as possible. i.e. when I list a source I'd prefer to refrain from using lots of > > > > > > > > > > > >


 I like the sound device system -- any feedback on the built in pre-amp; the Cantar is beautiful -- anyone know where I can find one used?

good luck finding a used cantar......once you own one, you don't sell it.
the preamps in the sound devices units are nice. i a/b'ed them against grace v2/3's and sold off my graces and just use the internal pres in the 7xx box.

[meatballs]

Rokpunk -

  I like your style man !!! (nice lamp)

I have some lines out for a Aaton - Cantar. She's a beaut !!!!! Realistically, I will end up with a 7xxx, however, I do have an old friend who owes me some money -- maybe its time to collect !!!!!!

  Now Cables? Mics?         pics -- please

[Brian Skalinder]

For $10k, you won't be able to get the perfect, uber-flexible, one-size-fits-all recording locker package for any and all purposes.  But you can put together some really fantastic  gear for $10k (and for a lot less, depending on one's goals).

I'm not a huge fan of large diaphragm mics unless I'm recording on-stage, so I'd skip the 170s, though their multi-pattern pickup can make for a lot of fun experimentation.  While there's a lot of great sounding gear out there, I still love the Schoeps sound and modularity.  And mics are king, so I'd focus my money there first, and secondarily on the back end.^*

My picks:

===================================================
Description           |  #  |  Unit ($)  |  Ext ($)
===================================================
Schoeps MK 5          |  2  |     1,350  |    2,700
Schoeps MK 8          |  1  |     1,215  |    1,215
Schoeps CMC 6         |  3  |       929  |    2,787
Schoeps KC 5          |  3  |       575  |    1,725
Oade MOD Edirol R-44  |  1  |       995  |      995
---------------------------------------------------
SUB-TOTAL                                     9,422
---------------------------------------------------
Cables, mount, shockmounts, stand, w/s, etc.    588
===================================================
GRAND TOTAL                                  10,000
===================================================

The above setup would allow you to run coincident, near-coincident, or spaced cardioids, spaced or baffled omnis, mid-side, double mid-side (3-channels, hence the R-44), and 2-ch mics + 2-ch soundboard.  This is all new, of course.  Used would save you a good chunk of change - maybe enough for another MK 8 to support Blumlein, or a single or pair of MK 41 supercardioids, or a single or pair of MK 21 subcardioids, or another CMC6 to enable 4-mic recording, or upgrade the R-44 to a Sound Devices 744 + preamp, or...well, you get the idea.  Lots of options!

Alternatively, instead of the R-44, for a little bit more you could go with 2 x Tascam HD-P2 (Oade MOD or not) and sync clocks for when you want to run > 2 channel.  There may be other recorders that will give you 3-4 channels to support the above setup -- my goal isn't to list any and all possibilities, just one I think is pretty darn sweet.

^* Speaking of backend, so to speak:  do you have a sufficiently high quality playback system to enable you to benefit from all this great gear during listening?

[it-goes-to-eleven]

32 minidiscs + CSB's.   Then you can also take full boards.

[jerryfreak]

what skalinder said, but buy your schoeps used and save 30+%

[Teen Wolf Blitzer]

Don't buy Schoeps.     That's all I'm gonna say.  I'd go with the DPA's or 140's.

[rokpunk]

Don't buy Schoeps.     That's all I'm gonna say.  I'd go with the DPA's or 140's.

some people like mud.

:shrugs:

[sanaka]

I would get:

A pair of these:



And one of these:



Which would give you superb sound in your choice of stereo flavor, and should leave ~$2K, ample for high quality stand, cables, batteries, media, bag, post production software (I like Adobe Audition) etc. I'm not a big believer in special silver cables, so I'd probably go for some nice basic Neutrik XLR-on-Canare starquad.

What would be awesome of course, would be more than 2 tracks to record to. You get a lot of flexibility and one thing you could do is use
the MKH800 Twin mics (which have two outputs), for even more stereo flavor options, chosen in post! The mojo machine for this of course is the SD 788, but this would put you over budget with the Senn mics. You could go with the R-44, but the preamps aren't as nice as Sound Devices. So you could get something outboard to up the SQ, but this would also up the complexity of the setup (I really like the simplicity of just mics>recorder)  There are many other choices of mics, of course, and you could definitely do SD788 with Schoeps or whatever.

I had to connoiter, finagle and justify for a year just to muster the $1K for a new R-44, so you are in a very enviable equipment buying position!


Peace,
Sanaka

EDIT: The previous 5 posts happened while I was composing my post, so sorry for redundancy.

[manitouman]

All good suggestions...When you are done buying gear, buy some van den Hul cables from Busman Audio so that your signals are clean. I absolutely love my set! 

[Lil Kim Jong-Il]

10k is pretty reasonable. how bout a 7xx deck and a Soundfield mic?

This. 

788t     = $6K
SPS200 = $3K


With the SPS200 processing software you can replace a whole bag full of capsules and configuration bars. 

[H₂O]

I'd get:
 used 744t ~ $3400
Schoeps
 used CMC6 ~ $1200
 used mk8   ~ $1000
 used kc5's  ~ $700
 new mk5's  ~ $2700
 used V2     ~ $700

[it-goes-to-eleven]

With the SPS200 processing software you can replace a whole bag full of capsules and configuration bars. 

It is subjective, but I'm skeptical that a bunch of digital processing is going to replace a spaced pair, etc.  That there won't be artifacts.

[nameloc01]

A big bag of blow and a long weekend at The Bunny Ranch.

[Dede2002]

A big bag of blow and a long weekend at The Bunny Ranch.

I'm in 

[jnorman34]

hmmm - how about a nagra IV?  for mics, i'd think tlm170s are excellent, but heavy and obtrusive.  i like DPA 4011s or maybe senn 8040s for general use, and perhaps schoeps cmc62 omni pair for more initimate material.

[intpseeker]

Rokpunk -

  I like your style man !!! (nice lamp)

the avatar is a classic figure ground example. Do you see the lamp or do you see the...well..the other possibility. 

[setboy]

If had the money I would be buying Neumann, AKG or DPA. But that's might just be me

[JackHenry]

I NEVER saw the lamp, even when it was pointed out

It's been ruined for me now

[meatballs]

It's monday and I have thus far at least made a decision on the deck. I'm going with a sound devices 7xx not sure which model yet.

Any advice on where to get the best price on the deck -- or better yet where I could find one used?

[setboy]

Any advice on where to get the best price on the deck -- or better yet where I could find one used?

they pop up in the yard sale some times

[pyiteac]

A big bag of blow and a long weekend at The Bunny Ranch.

Winner Winner Chicken Dinner.

[pyiteac]

Don't buy Schoeps.     That's all I'm gonna say.  I'd go with the DPA's or 140's.

some people like mud.

:shrugs:

My recordings are super detailed and clear.  There is no mud here.

[rokpunk]

^^^^ a pair of these (avalon 737) and some neumanns = win

[cottle]

Rokpunk -

  I like your style man !!! (nice lamp)

the avatar is a classic figure ground example. Do you see the lamp or do you see the...well..the other possibility. 

^I'm glad you mentioned that.  I did a double-take before I realized it was a lamp.

[J.T.L]

soundfield ST350>SD744

[hugh]

Core Sound TetraMic -> SD 788T-SSD  ;-)

[mmedley.]

Soundfield SPS200 & Nagra VI. This will give you 4 mic inputs for the SPS, and 2 line inputs for a SBD patch. You can also change the mic inputs to use transformers in the signal path or not.

[Kyle]

Don't buy Schoeps.     That's all I'm gonna say.  I'd go with the DPA's or 140's.

some people like mud.

:shrugs:

My recordings are super detailed and clear.  There is no mud here.

No mud here either. Could not be more pleased.

To spend some $$ assuming stereo is the preferred recording method:

Schoeps CMC6U (x2) - $1858
Schoeps MK4     (x2) - $1550
Schoeps MK41    (x2) - $1998
Schoeps MK2s    (x2) - $1700

Sound Devices 702   - $1875

Total                      - $8981

Off to a really good start
Add outboard pre's/adc's/other capsules later down the road

[BC]

Gonna limit it to a 2 channel rig:

Mics: DPA/Schoeps small diaphraghm condensers with active cables (I like the simplicity and ease of setup with actives) Also small mics are nice for those intimate coffeeshop gigs. Given only one capsule pattern I would probably get cardioids but subcards might be nice too. Guess being able to purchase other caps depends on how the budget works out.

Preamp: Grace V2/V3 or Neve portico.

A/D: Benchmark 2496, Mytek, or Apogee Mini-Me.

Recorder: SD 722/702 would be nice but not totally necessary. Anything that records reliably, takes a digi input without resampling and fits into your budget would work.

If you can find this stuff used you will get in under 10K easily.

[meatballs]

I have come to a finishing point and I'd like to thank all of you for helping me out.

Sound Devices 744

Schoepps cmc 6 st
mk4
otrf bar
active cables
ricote (zeppelin)

I'll post some pics of the rig when I get her all together.

"It's always better to get shot out of a cannon than squeezed through a tube and that's why God made fast motorcycles,  Bubba"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! H.S.T

[RobertNC]

Make sure you have looked at the specs of the 744.   You only get 2 channels with phantom power, so if you want to run 4 channels and don't have a board patch, you are gonna need a pre to run the second set of mics.

Also since you posted today, I'm assuming it;s not too late - you can still go DPA.   

[it-goes-to-eleven]

That's a lot of dough to not have mk21's..  And while the mk4's are excellent, I find my close mk21 recordings blow them away.  Especially outdoors.

[sanaka]

...specs of the 744.   You only get 2 channels...

^^^^^^^^^^^ Read Carefully!!! ^^^^^^^^^^^^^

What he said. The other 2 channels on a 744 are line in only. If you're just doing 2-mic stereo, you might as well get a 702 and put more ching into the mics.

Otherwise you could get an R-44 and have four actual mic channels, and still have enough left for 2 pairs of Schoeps! Really fine mics with a nice hot output (Sennheiser MKH comes to mind, not educated on Schoeps but they're probably in there too) will let you operate your mic inputs in the sweet spot, so the R-44 could sound really excellent even though its pre's are theoretically inferior to Sound Devices.

Succinctly: Not sure 744 is the best investment.

My $.02 on your $10K 

Peace,
Sanaka

[johnw]

You should be able to get all that used for well under $10K. If it was me I'd go:

Schoeps CMC6 pair $1200 used
MK4V pair $1700 used
MK41 pair $1500 used
MK21 pair $1400 used
KC5 pair $1000 used
Grace V2 $700 used
Sound Devices 702 $1500 used

That comes to around $9000 which leaves room for a stand ($50-100), a bag ($100-200), shockmount ($30-90) and Kwon bars/NOLA bars ($250). Or you could pick up an MK8 for MS and scrap something else. If you really need 4 channels, get an R44 instead of a 702.