Topic: cheap and cheerful stealth microphones

[mrblister]

I know I  am probably setting myself up to be shot down in flames....but has anyone here had experience or could recommend some cheap and cheerful stealth microphones.

The reason I ask is that I am a relative newbie and I use my beloved minidisc recorders as well as a Tascam DR07 to record concerts.  I started off with a Sony clip-on ECM 719 which gave clear results but quite tinny and usually needed a bit of bass boosting in post production.  Wanting to move up I now have a pair of Church Audio CA11 -  unlike the Sony these produce masses of bass but every single time produce muffled recordings that require lots and lots of fiddling around with equalisation to get semi-reasonable results.

I don't require the ulitmate in hi-fi quality just an easily managed clear reminder recording of a gig - any recommendations

(Virtually none of the gigs I attend have extreme spl )

[Church-Audio]

Where are you placing your mics? My ca-11 mics should not sound muffled at all.

Chris

[mrblister]

Hi Chris.

For sit down gigs (most of them) - often small jazz gigs - I wear them belt mounted.  For stand up gigs usually on my shirt collar.  I should probably clarify the word 'muffled'.  Its a massive over-emphasis on bass and low-mid frequencies that I feel swamps vocals.  They don't distort or anything like that (although, as I said most of my gigs aren't that loud).  So I end up in post production heavily reducing bass frequencies and upping vocal type frequencies, in fact a hell of a lot of messing about....what I then end up with isn't dissasterously bad although it isn't brilliant compared to other peoples recordings.

At first I thought maybe its my placement, or the sound quality of the gigs I go to but I dont think it is.  If I do a test where I record my hifi at top volume the Sony although a little tinny and lacking in bass produces a much preferable recording to the CA11s which sound 'muffled'  The results are independent upon whether I connect to my minidisc or my Tascam. 

If I'm using the Tascam 07s inbuilt mics on this test they sound (to my ears) vastly superior to both...although I haven't tried it at a real concert, I will next time.  I would still be interested in any 'cheap and cheerful' recommendations

[rowjimmytour]

Hi Chris.

For sit down gigs (most of them) - often small jazz gigs - I wear them belt mounted.  For stand up gigs usually on my shirt collar.  I should probably clarify the word 'muffled'.  Its a massive over-emphasis on bass and low-mid frequencies that I feel swamps vocals.  They don't distort or anything like that (although, as I said most of my gigs aren't that loud).  So I end up in post production heavily reducing bass frequencies and upping vocal type frequencies, in fact a hell of a lot of messing about....what I then end up with isn't dissasterously bad although it isn't brilliant compared to other peoples recordings.

At first I thought maybe its my placement, or the sound quality of the gigs I go to but I dont think it is.  If I do a test where I record my hifi at top volume the Sony although a little tinny and lacking in bass produces a much preferable recording to the CA11s which sound 'muffled'  The results are independent upon whether I connect to my minidisc or my Tascam. 

If I'm using the Tascam 07s inbuilt mics on this test they sound (to my ears) vastly superior to both...although I haven't tried it at a real concert, I will next time.  I would still be interested in any 'cheap and cheerful' recommendations

I don't think you need new mics I think you need to work on mic placement as in placing them head high. Having your mics at your belt at a sit down show or collar for a stand up is going to cause major phase issues w/ the seats in front and the people. Most find a hat works good

[mrblister]

When I record from my hi-fi there is no issue on placement

[Church-Audio]

When I record from my hi-fi there is no issue on placement

Recording your hifi and recording a concert are two different matters. If I only sold mics that sounded good when I recorded my studio monitors I would be in trouble. The SPL in a live event is much louder then your home stereo. You can not rely on that test. I also think mic placement is your problem if your looking for lifelike reproduction try my cafs mics they are very small, onsale and perfect for recording jazz gigs. I would also recommend my omni capsules for these mics as I prefer the sound of omni for jazz recordings in small clubs.


Chris

[chrisnubar]

it stinks that we have to stealth, but i agree w the others, not only placement, but the surroundings can mess with your quality. tie your belt around your head. just kidding. interesting thread.

[mrblister]

To be honest the being stealthy part adds to the enjoyment of the gig for me. Even more fun at small gigs.  I recently went to a Jazz Improv gig by a very obscure Norwegian band where the members of the band outnumbered the audience (3). ....actually getting a servicable recording seemed almost as mad and dangerous as the music.

I would still love someone to recommend some cheap microphones that might serve my need.


My very first gig I did with a mono clip on mic from Tandy/Maplin... the type used for giving talks...and listening back to it, it sounds pretty good. Maybe I should just buy two of them and see what I get

[nameloc01]

The best sounding stealth type mics...in no order

u853s
Churchs mics
Nevatons
Core Sounds
Sennheiser


There are more, but these are your best options.

[rowjimmytour]

No offense but again if you used Shoeps or DPA's and attached them to your belt or shirt collar it would still sound like ass

[bugg100]

No flaming here!

Check this thread out as well.
http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,122610.15.html

Your ca-11's are all you need. Practice placement at a show where it's ok to tape, something you wouldn't be at otherwise and then move your mics around the room in like 5 minute intervals....

Omni caps for your ca-11's are sweet as well.
Joe

[setboy]

What do you count as "cheap"?

[mrblister]

thanks for the comments so far. 

I personally don't think the 'problem' is  placement or room acoustics / sound mix.  Most of the gigs I go to are fairly well ordered, quiet,  affairs (small jazz bands, some acoustic type music and small amplified bands.Often with very few bodies around me)  All I'm after is a mic of similar quality to the Tascam DR07  inbuilt  but that is small / clippable and cheapish.

By cheap I mean less than £50.  Again, I'm not after top end hi-fi quality just something to get an audio memory that easy to manage.  The CA11s don't give me that - they require much more post production than the diagrams in the link above. 

[bugg100]

Research psycho-acoustics, if you can.

[sunjan]

All I'm after is a mic of similar quality to the Tascam DR07  inbuilt  but that is small / clippable and cheapish.

By cheap I mean less than £50.  Again, I'm not after top end hi-fi quality just something to get an audio memory that easy to manage.  The CA11s don't give me that - they require much more post production than the diagrams in the link above. 

Are you saying that you get worse results with CA-11 than the DR07 built-in mics??? 

Maybe you should look into the powering in that case. I don't know what voltage DR07 provides plug-in, but most mics require a battery box (or even better - preamp) for adequate voltage.

With proper placement and powering, CA-11 should be way better than any internal mics.
Search the archive for sources, there's plenty of proof out there...