Topic: $500 > $1000 mic pairs.....

[Nick's Picks]

Hey all...

i'm re-building my rig on the mid-price point.  I just can't justify thousands when I only get out so infrequently.
Knowing this, i've narrowed my thoughts down to a few mics, and would like to hear from owners of any of them.

AKG 390 set (one set of caps, no actives)  approx, what, $700ish?
AKG 451 pair around $700
neumann KM184 pair $700-1000
Peluso kit with two pairs of caps, around $750

Of course, my heart lies w/the detail and sound of the big 3, namely cmc6/mkxx kit - SMK100 kit and 480's.  but I dont have the jingle.

I'm looking for as much detail and natural sounding performance as I can get...and keep it around $800.  I will not consider anything that is not full range 20hz-20khz.  I know things come up from time to time, like the 483's that went just recently.  and i'm on a time frame of between now and ....summer maybe. 
Will be running direct into the R4, which is pretty clean sounding w/little coloration.

Anyone have something to sell?

[F.O.Bean]

im sure the 390 seriesisnt that expensive, maybe half that much w/ cards or hypers, either or

451's would prollysound well, its basically the ck6x caps permanently mounted in card right

[johnw]

I think the older 451s had interchangable caps. A used pair of 391s usually goes for $350-400. I've seen a couple pairs of used 480s go for $800-850 with either 61 or 63 caps. If you could spend that much on 480s, I'd go with them. Since you obviously like checking out new gear Nick, why not pick up a pair of peluso cards?

Edit: You could also pick up a pair of 461s for $500-550 and then have JW mod them for another $350 at a later date. I was very pleased with the stock 460 sound.

[Nick's Picks]

im sure the 390 seriesisnt that expensive, maybe half that much w/ cards or hypers, either or

451's would prollysound well, its basically the ck6x caps permanently mounted in card right

really ?  I thought the 391s were close to 7 bills.
Those would by my last choice.  they sound ok, but a little funny to me.

the 451 is based off of the ck1 capsule, which was originaly in the 460's card cap?
the Peluso's have me intrigued, but nobody seems to have any input on how they sound.  I wonder if there is any credit to their 19k > 25kHz freq responce.  would be nice for hi-rez recording.
I'm leaning towrds these, but wonder if i'm getting into something along the lines of the MC-012, which I dont wnat to be in.

[Tim]

bean is right about the akg se300 series prices....

[F.O.Bean]

not too many folks run the 451's either, thats why i thought theyd be interesting, or the puelso's, lets get a review on a diff flavor than the usual suspects, unless you wanna buy something your keeping for awhile, in that case, go w/ the 481/3's

johnw is right, youcan prolly hokld off and get 481/3 for 8-900 a pair

[Sanjay]

I have the 300 series, the prices bean stated for used are more or less correct, tending to be a bit higher if hypers or actives.  New they are very expensive.  I really like mine, plus the abundance of used mics means capsules are cheaper to come by, so i'll be sticking with that I think.  Also the Audix 1290's are fun toys, I believe sonic sense has a pair in their demo section for a good deal.  They also have interchangable caps.  Also the 460's can occasionally be had for that price range. 

[Nick's Picks]

I've owned the 1290s all ready (remember who your talkig to...mic slut extraordinare)
nice sounding...but only 30hz for a bottom end, and I could fell the lack of weight on my stereo.

the 451s ...id run in a heartbeat.
a used pair of km184s wouldnt suck either.

I'll probably end up buying the Pelusos so that we can get a new flavor going on in the section.
I just need to use my jedi mind tricks to get a pair for review.. they are not very "responsive".  Ive since moved on to bugging soundpure.com, the biggest retailer and guy who stands to gain a lot from a favorable review.  Lets hope he knows how to play ball.
;-)

[Sanjay]

there are some 451 pairs on ebay right now, but ebay really tends to overinflate the prices on those i think.  As for the 393's if you would like to borrow them this summer you are more than welcome to if you've never tried them.  The audix's cut it a bit short for me I think, but when I borrowed them and used them with my FP-24 it kinda rounded out the bottom end problem and I don't think it was as much of a problem, however I used them to tape mostly acoustic stuff. 

I say go for the neumanns and pick up the actives that are (i think) still for sale.  Though that might throw it over 1k.

[neumannkid]

 
Personally I hope you get the Pelusos on loan from a dealer, Id like to hear your review of them to see if they contend with all the others. Plus I agree a new flavor never hurts.
But if you cant get them on loan I think the 184's would suit you well, I think they are nice mics for the price and see used ones for sale on a regular bases, unlike the 480s that only pop up every once in a while.

[Nick's Picks]

Personally I hope you get the Pelusos on loan from a dealer, Id like to hear your review of them to see if they contend with all the others. Plus I agree a new flavor never hurts.
But if you cant get them on loan I think the 184's would suit you well, I think they are nice mics for the price and see used ones for sale on a regular bases, unlike the 480s that only pop up every once in a while.

I'd have to agree w/you here.  i've got so many great 184 recordings.  no fear running those.
i'm just scared of a fixed cap mic. 

[caymanreview]

want some mbho actives?

[neumannkid]

want some mbho actives?

Not a bad set of mics, IMHO.

[caymanreview]

great recording in the kickdown i made the other night at yonder too

they will be quite a bit cheaper than they usually go for used, cause i got em cheap

[Sanjay]

why you getting rid of the MBHOs?

[caymanreview]

why you getting rid of the MBHOs?

the neumanns in the yard sale, thats if i was first to get in touch with him, but i was quick

[neumannkid]

why you getting rid of the MBHOs?

Joining another team, I believe
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=40647.0;topicseen

[Sanjay]

enjoy those mics rock, bit too rich for my blood i think though 

[krebsy]

It's about time you joined the good guys!!   

[leehookem]

the Peluso's have me intrigued, but nobody seems to have any input on how they sound. I wonder if there is any credit to their 19k > 25kHz freq responce. would be nice for hi-rez recording.
I'm leaning towrds these, but wonder if i'm getting into something along the lines of the MC-012, which I dont wnat to be in.

drewLoo has em.  send him a PM.

[Nick's Picks]

MBHO eh...?
i've owned them before, and pulled some good stuff with them.  thought the bass was a little shy if I recall.
 pm me.

[heath]

i've been dying to hear the Peluso's.  There was a thread about them a while back in which DrewLoo was going to post a torrent of a recording he made with them, but it never surfaced as far as I know.  I've been real interested in them.  Do some digging and you can probably find the posts...

I might be dumping a pair of 184's, not sure yet, but I think I want a change.

h

[Todd R]

If you already put km140's at the top of your list Nick, I'd go with the km184's.  The 184s sound almost identical to the km140s, which is to say very good.  You lose the option of the actives and capsule switching, but you'll get very good mics for the price.  I think Ed Swearigen's got a used pair for sale right now.  As you know, if you buy used, they'll hold their value, so if you don't like them you could always dump them.

I ran the 184s for about 2 years and made lots of great tapes.  I never had a problem with the fixed cards.  The cards are what you want anyway when you're running neumann SD mics.  Excellent in good rooms, onstage, and outdoors.  If you're running farther back in a situation when you might choose hypers, I had great success running a modified NOS with 11-12" spacing and 70-80 degree angle.  The greater spacing preserves the soundstage and imaging and the reduced angle cuts out the room boom.

[bluegrass_brad]

I'll do some fluffing for the AKG 460 series.  I love mine.  You can definitely get a pair for $500-$600 and still have the versatility of the CK61/62/63 capsule line. And if so desired could also have them modded by Jim Williams somewhere down the road, or if you move to 480 bodies you will have the caps to use with them already.  Im going to be getting a JK box as soon as I can (I really want actives as FOB is the place I usually find myself), but I will always hold onto the 460 bodies. Ive made lots of great tapes with them over the years.

[bhtoque]

im sure the 390 seriesisnt that expensive, maybe half that much w/ cards or hypers, either or

451's would prollysound well, its basically the ck6x caps permanently mounted in card right

really ?  I thought the 391s were close to 7 bills.
Those would by my last choice.  they sound ok, but a little funny to me.

the 451 is based off of the ck1 capsule, which was originaly in the 460's card cap?
the Peluso's have me intrigued, but nobody seems to have any input on how they sound.  I wonder if there is any credit to their 19k > 25kHz freq responce.  would be nice for hi-rez recording.
I'm leaning towrds these, but wonder if i'm getting into something along the lines of the MC-012, which I don't want to be in.

You should wait to buy till you hear my JMP 012>hyperconductors>R-4

The guitar center Oktavas(and the crappy rigs behind them) give the 012's a bad name. Dollar for dollar, the sound room set still can't be beat.

JAson

[Ed.]

i was going to sell my 184's, but i think i jumped the gun.  it just seems like i should run mics for more than 4 shows.  sorry, hope no one is upset at me.

[Sanjay]

You should wait to buy till you hear my JMP 012>hyperconductors>R-4

The guitar center Oktavas(and the crappy rigs behind them) give the 012's a bad name. Dollar for dollar, the sound room set still can't be beat.

JAson

Towards the end of the summer I will pick up some soundroom or dorsey mod ones, I missed the chance to get a pair of modded ones for $150 earlier and i'm kicking myself.  Can always use a second pair.

[peterbilt]

want some mbho actives?

I was just about to suggest this! I have only had the 603's out on a few occassions since I purchased them, and I am really starting to love them. I have only had one time where the "lack of bass" thing has been noticable, and I know from personal experience it was the bands sound more than the mics. If anything, I am really happy with the clarity of the bass response I have gotten with them, as well as the mids (which I always thought the Nak's I was running lacked) and I'm fairly certain I will love them even more when I move on from the "thINBOX" to something like a V2 or 3.

Yeah, I would suggest some used HO's...right around your desired price range with the option of caps available.

[Nick's Picks]

im sure the 390 seriesisnt that expensive, maybe half that much w/ cards or hypers, either or

451's would prollysound well, its basically the ck6x caps permanently mounted in card right

really ?  I thought the 391s were close to 7 bills.
Those would by my last choice.  they sound ok, but a little funny to me.

the 451 is based off of the ck1 capsule, which was originaly in the 460's card cap?
the Peluso's have me intrigued, but nobody seems to have any input on how they sound.  I wonder if there is any credit to their 19k > 25kHz freq responce.  would be nice for hi-rez recording.
I'm leaning towrds these, but wonder if i'm getting into something along the lines of the MC-012, which I don't want to be in.

You should wait to buy till you hear my JMP 012>hyperconductors>R-4

The guitar center Oktavas(and the crappy rigs behind them) give the 012's a bad name. Dollar for dollar, the sound room set still can't be beat.

JAson

oh, its not that I think poorly of them.  Its just that i've made lots of mc-012 tapes over the time I had mine.  shitloads of 24/96 stuff.  and yea, they sound good.  but at that resolution certain aspects become notible.  lack of detail...for example. 
even at 16bit, i've never made anything w/a mc-012 that had the detail of a 480 or 184.

[Simp-Dawg]

get them 'ho's!  best price for a great active setup that you'll ever find.

[Nick's Picks]

nick have you ever run gefells ?
(300s, fixed cardioids - same caps as 200s apparently)
200s or 210s ?

no, never run them.  i've seldom heard them.  from what I remember, they sounded like a dark neumann.

[Rick]

nick have you ever run gefells ?
(300s, fixed cardioids - same caps as 200s apparently)
200s or 210s ?

no, never run them.  i've seldom heard them.  from what I remember, they sounded like a dark neumann.

I really liked my MG M300, infact if I ever go back to run without actives (which I doubt) I would go back to the gefells. Check out the archive

[Nick's Picks]

nick -
is the peluso company entertaining the possibility of active cables for them?

beats me.  I have yet to speak with John Peluso, but I will press him when I do.

[John Kelly]

I've owned the 1290s all ready (remember who your talkig to...mic slut extraordinare)
nice sounding...but only 30hz for a bottom end, and I could fell the lack of weight on my stereo.

Little late here, but the omni caps are 20-20k, it's the cards and hypers that start at 30.

[Nick's Picks]

I've owned the 1290s all ready (remember who your talkig to...mic slut extraordinare)
nice sounding...but only 30hz for a bottom end, and I could fell the lack of weight on my stereo.

Little late here, but the omni caps are 20-20k, it's the cards and hypers that start at 30.

ahhh...
good to know.  I bet those omni caps sound nice, remembering how crispy the hypers were.
nice mics, those audix'ssss.   +T to John Kelly !

[johnw]

I think someone from Peluso posted on gearslutz about active cables being an option later on. Of course I might be thinking of THE - I think they've been saying that for a while too. 

[John Kelly]

ahhh...
good to know.  I bet those omni caps sound nice, remembering how crispy the hypers were.
nice mics, those audix'ssss.   +T to John Kelly !

They do sound nice, I just need to rig up a jecklin disc or get a wide bar to run some split action.  And yeah, they are nice, thanks again for sellin 'em to me.

+ right back atcha

[Nick's Picks]

I've been thinking about Jdiscs recently.
I'd like to hear one with a solid core, but enough padding and fluff that it would not bounce sound at all.  I started to make one w/a round cutting board of about 12-14" in diameter.  Padded w/a thick fleece (but i'd use something more tailored to sound absorsion) and a mount.  I never used it though.  It was for my 4071s, and motivated by Moke

[Tim]

I just built one and I'm trying to decide how thick the felt that I am placing over the foam core should be...

I was a bit concerned about reflections, any thoughts Nick?

[Nick's Picks]

I think someone from Peluso posted on gearslutz about active cables being an option later on. Of course I might be thinking of THE - I think they've been saying that for a while too.

That was officialy scrapped, last I spoke with Tylor.  And that was well over a year ago, i'd guess.  Actualy, that was just before I bought the Soundfield (jan 2003).  I had just purchased a pair of THEs w/the hyper caps.  fucking sweet mics.  wish I still had them.  Any way... I had to return them for a full refund and then I ordered the ST-250 that same day.  I said "fuck it" ...and went for what I lusted after. 

[Nick's Picks]

I wouldn't worry about reflection if you are using just a dampening material w/o any hard surface
but buying two tiles of sound treatment foam would probably work very well.

[johnw]

I think someone from Peluso posted on gearslutz about active cables being an option later on. Of course I might be thinking of THE - I think they've been saying that for a while too.

That was officialy scrapped, last I spoke with Tylor.  And that was well over a year ago, i'd guess.  Actualy, that was just before I bought the Soundfield (jan 2003).  I had just purchased a pair of THEs w/the hyper caps.  fucking sweet mics.  wish I still had them.  Any way... I had to return them for a full refund and then I ordered the ST-250 that same day.  I said "fuck it" ...and went for what I lusted after. 

Do you remember why? I've always wondered if you have to design mics around actives or if you can work actives into the design of an existing mic.

[Tim]

I wouldn't worry about reflection if you are using just a dampening material w/o any hard surface
but buying two tiles of sound treatment foam would probably work very well.

thanks Nick, the foam is that hard foam from craft stores. I've got some extra felt so I'm just going to lay a few extra layers on...

[Nick's Picks]

1. re: actives for T.H.E.  scrapped due to logistics, i believe.  And cost ...and ultimately, demand.  these mics are studio toos and most studios dont give a rats ass about active cables from what I understand.

2. hard foam from the craft store.  hold it tightly to your ear and listen through it.  the idea is that no sound at all should come through (I would guess...since it is ment to isolate).  That was the problem I had w/the foam models I tried.  sound would bleed through them very easily.  So I went w/the wood.  but I just never materialized.

[heath]

these mics are studio toos and most studios dont give a rats ass about active cables from what I understand.

qft