Topic: Cymantic LR-16 16-Track Recorder

[danlynch]

So I saw this in the weekly Full Compass adverts:
http://www.fullcompass.com/product/440607.html?utm_source=newsletter02052013&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=triad-orbit

The price seems too good to be true.  Also, probably doesn't offer any P48, and the jacks in the back seem to all be 1/4". 

Thoughts?

[F.O.Bean]

Does it do 24-bit? Also, what does it record to? Seems too good to be true, but sounds def worth trying if you can fill most of the 16 inputs!!!

[F.O.Bean]

Never mind, just read about it and answered my own questions. Seems like a badass multitrack recorder

[yousef]

It looks like it's designed exclusively to tap insert points on mixers. The inputs are TRS but unbalanced and wired so that they both receive and return the signal to the desk. So definitely no p48 or preamps there. Presumably you could run it from a mixer's direct outs too.

I think for that money I'd be looking at something like a Tascam US1800 or saving a bit longer for a secondhand HD24 - I don't like the idea of being limited to boards with enough unused insert points. And we often end up mic'ing drums/guitars ourselves in addition to what we get from the board or split.

It's an interesting development though, isn't it? And maybe with a bit of modding/hacking, who knows...

[danlynch]

Agreed, the limitations are probably too great for our standard taping situation.
But I'm looking at this as a possible modest 16-track recorder for the desk of a club.  So it would basically be all inserts, and probably one stereo pair of mounted mics that would have to provide their own P48.

[yousef]

Sounds almost perfect for that job, doesn't it?

To avoid having a separate pre/phantom supply maybe you could use a couple of spare channels on the desk for your room mics, tap the insert point pre-fader and and zero the faders on those two channels?

btw I'm not sure what the state of play is in the US but I'm seeing more digital mixers over here that don't have direct outs OR insert points. Or certainly not without the use of expensive expansion cards.

They can output a stereo board feed directly to MP3 though...

[kirk97132]

I dunno, inserts are not always available, most often you'll find some inserts used and direct outs open.  Sad that you cannot run this off Direct Outs also. The way they built it this box HAS to run off inserts. and HAS to use a TRS connector.  At $500 I'd agree with getting a used HD-24 or either getting the Tascam US- 1800/2000 Motu Ultralite MKIII the only one above 600 is the HD-24.  The Motu is a way better unit IMHO with 14 channels I/O, 2 mic pres and FW/USB.

[RichT]

Allen and Heath also do a 16 track standalone recorder, it's a bit more expensive though: http://www.allen-heath.com/uk/Products/pages/ProductDetails.aspx?catId=ICE16&ProductId=ICE16&SubCatId=

For more money there's the JoeCo BlackBox.  The RME Fireface UFX will also record directly to USB without a computer attached

[cybergaloot]

I occasionally go more than 16 tracks on my mixes. And why not USB 3 capability? 16 tracks of 48kHz/24bit audio might be asking a bit much for USB 2. I know that theoretically it can handle it but ...

[runonce]

I dunno, inserts are not always available, most often you'll find some inserts used and direct outs open.  Sad that you cannot run this off Direct Outs also. The way they built it this box HAS to run off inserts. and HAS to use a TRS connector.  At $500 I'd agree with getting a used HD-24 or either getting the Tascam US- 1800/2000 Motu Ultralite MKIII the only one above 600 is the HD-24.  The Motu is a way better unit IMHO with 14 channels I/O, 2 mic pres and FW/USB.

In the manual - it implies that you can run direct - but you'll be limited to unbalanced in - and recommended a TRS cable with ring unconnected.

[runonce]

For average taper dude stuff - this might not cut it.

But - if you are doing regular gig type recording - in venues where you have access to "stuff" - this might work fine.

All of my rack preamps have inserts...perfect!

I really want to be able to grab the sub groups from my mixer - and a house mix - and an AUD pair.

[kirk97132]

I dunno, inserts are not always available, most often you'll find some inserts used and direct outs open.  Sad that you cannot run this off Direct Outs also. The way they built it this box HAS to run off inserts. and HAS to use a TRS connector.  At $500 I'd agree with getting a used HD-24 or either getting the Tascam US- 1800/2000 Motu Ultralite MKIII the only one above 600 is the HD-24.  The Motu is a way better unit IMHO with 14 channels I/O, 2 mic pres and FW/USB.

In the manual - it implies that you can run direct - but you'll be limited to unbalanced in - and recommended a TRS cable with ring unconnected.

I suspect it is more than a recommendation.  It seems the unit is hardwired for send and return type of signal flow. Without using a special cable that disables the return signal path you would  have an incoming and out going signal and I cannot imagine that working very well on a recording, or on the sbd it is connected to especially if you are on a direct, which is well, directly in the signal path.  Imagine how that would screw up the sound and gain structure on the FOH guy.  With the statement that follows about using TRS cable for proper unbalanced loads, I cam only assume that they are referring to the send/return type of cable with TRS on an insert.  So you need to carry 16 special cables that have no application in any other situation besides this deck's use.  Not a selling point for me anyway, too much of a niche product, ymmv

[RichT]

I occasionally go more than 16 tracks on my mixes. And why not USB 3 capability? 16 tracks of 48kHz/24bit audio might be asking a bit much for USB 2. I know that theoretically it can handle it but ...

16* 24/48 is 18.4Mbit/s, USB2 can handle up to 480Mbit/s

This box can up to do 32 channels in and out at 192kHz (295Mbit/s) over USB2: http://www.antelopeaudio.com/en/products/Orion32-Multi-Channel-AD-DA-converter

If it's not broke...

[easyed]

see my post on Team Multitrack: http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=79531.330

[cybergaloot]

I occasionally go more than 16 tracks on my mixes. And why not USB 3 capability? 16 tracks of 48kHz/24bit audio might be asking a bit much for USB 2. I know that theoretically it can handle it but ...

16* 24/48 is 18.4Mbit/s, USB2 can handle up to 480Mbit/s

This box can up to do 32 channels in and out at 192kHz (295Mbit/s) over USB2: http://www.antelopeaudio.com/en/products/Orion32-Multi-Channel-AD-DA-converter

If it's not broke...

As I said "I know that theoretically it can handle it but ... "

[andyhowe]

JoeCo BlackBox can do 64 tracks MADI also. More to come. It's bit more expensive but you get a lot more in terms of monitoring, display, control..

[DATPAT]

i believe you can do direct outs with this unit but you have no gain controls on the recorder which is why inserts stated.

[jefflester]

Anybody ever got ahold of one of these and try it out? I've recently joined a band that has a 16-track mixer with inserts and I'm considering getting one of these to record our shows. I have a US-1800, but I'm unsure about using inserts to tap out individual channels (partially inserted TRS?).  The band usually uses about 6 channels and I'd rather be able to track them individually than get them lumped as a single line out. I'd then add some additional mics for drums/guitar cabs whether using the Cymatic or the US-1800.

[hoserama]

It's awesome for exactly what it's designed for, a basic multitrack recorder. You do record off a balanced direct out with either the half-click method, or an adapter. It won't power any mics, so anything needs to run through a board or preamp.

[cybergaloot]

Not all board support the half-click method on inserts. I bought some stereo to mono adapters from Radio Shack (RIP!) that worked on an Allen & Heath board but it does mean they stick out 2-3" more. Effectively the adapters bridge the send and return while tapping the circuit.

I've also gone into the serviceable type connectors and done the bridging trick. Just cut the ring wire, bend it over and solder it to the tip connector.

If something must be plugged into the insert and you want to tap it, a stereo y connector with the return wire clipped on one connector will work. I've made a few of those so I can run outboard compressors and still hook up to my HD24 on a board with no direct outs.