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Author Topic: Neumann TLM 107 for shows?  (Read 7575 times)

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Offline HealthCov Chris

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Neumann TLM 107 for shows?
« on: May 02, 2016, 12:16:15 PM »
I'm looking to add a pair of LD mics to my setup and wonder if anyone has experience with the Neumann TLM 107's.  I was originally considering the Audio Technica 4050 or Neumann TLM 102 because they are closer to my budget.  However, I do like the idea of the multi-pattern with the Omni and HyperCard options since I don't have that currently.  Hell, if I'm jumping in why not go all the way under!

https://www.neumann.com/?lang=en&id=current_microphones&cid=tlm107_description

I typically record in small to mid-sized venues.  Mostly amplified music indoors, but have some festivals this summer too.  Typical bands include Railroad Earth, YMSB, Greensky Bluegrass, etc.

Any input/advice or other suggestions is appreciated.
LMA: https://archive.org/details/@corfit
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Offline goodcooker

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Re: Neumann TLM 107 for shows?
« Reply #1 on: May 02, 2016, 02:47:59 PM »
Consider ADK TLs. They are LD mics that have four pattern settings (omni, card, hyper and Fig8 ). They have been a taper favorite for years since they have a very flattering sound for the type of recording we do. You can walk out of a tough venue with a good sounding tape with these. Heavy and a pain to set up but no more so than the TLM107s. Inside PAS with the hyper setting, split omnis outdoors, Blumlein fig8s for unamplified bluegrass...you can do it all with these.

They are discontinued by ADK and have been replaced with a newer model http://www.frontendaudio.com/ADK-Thor-p/9999-11533.htm (which lacks the hyper setting, the one I use most often, but has a "tone control" of some kind).

The TLs pop up around here used in pairs with some regularity. No, I will not sell you mine :)

Also, Larry Villeja, the president of the company, is a pleasure to deal with and they offer repairs and custom modifications (capsule replacement and whatnot) through their custom shop.

I have a bunch of shows recorded with these in my LMA bookmarks.

Also if you plan to spend that much consider used AKG 414s. They do everything a LD can do, they don't weigh a ton and can be had used for what a single TLM107 costs new.

« Last Edit: May 02, 2016, 03:43:09 PM by goodcooker »
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Offline MakersMarc

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Re: Neumann TLM 107 for shows?
« Reply #2 on: May 02, 2016, 09:44:11 PM »
Second that, these kill for the price, and then some.
😈 Mk4v/41v>nbob actives>Baby nbox>Oade warm mod Marantz 620.

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Offline F.O.Bean

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Re: Neumann TLM 107 for shows?
« Reply #3 on: May 03, 2016, 09:30:08 AM »
I'm looking to add a pair of LD mics to my setup and wonder if anyone has experience with the Neumann TLM 107's.  I was originally considering the Audio Technica 4050 or Neumann TLM 102 because they are closer to my budget.  However, I do like the idea of the multi-pattern with the Omni and HyperCard options since I don't have that currently.  Hell, if I'm jumping in why not go all the way under!

https://www.neumann.com/?lang=en&id=current_microphones&cid=tlm107_description

I typically record in small to mid-sized venues.  Mostly amplified music indoors, but have some festivals this summer too.  Typical bands include Railroad Earth, YMSB, Greensky Bluegrass, etc.

Any input/advice or other suggestions is appreciated.

I say go for it Chris ;D Those mics look breathtaking, and I LOVE the 5 polar patterns! You can find the right pattern/config for ANY situation with that many patterns, and I would LOVE to hear that mic in Wide/Subcardioid mode :) I didn't notice a price though?

Also, I bet those 107's sound GREAT just running into your 680/60d too! If the price is right, those would be hard to beat overall, if you don't mind dealing with LD's ;)
Schoeps MK 4V & MK 41V ->
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Offline HealthCov Chris

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Re: Neumann TLM 107 for shows?
« Reply #4 on: May 03, 2016, 10:52:48 AM »
Consider ADK TLs.

Also if you plan to spend that much consider used AKG 414s. They do everything a LD can do, they don't weigh a ton and can be had used for what a single TLM107 costs new.

Thanks for this bit of knowledge!  I didn't know about the ADK TLs.  Now that I have listened to examples and comparisons I will consider.  I found one on Ebay for under $300.  I have considered the AKG 414 too.  I guess I will stew on it for awhile given the price of the AKG 414 and Neumann 107 ($1400 each new).
LMA: https://archive.org/details/@corfit
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Offline HealthCov Chris

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Re: Neumann TLM 107 for shows?
« Reply #5 on: May 03, 2016, 11:01:20 AM »
I say go for it Chris ;D Those mics look breathtaking, and I LOVE the 5 polar patterns! You can find the right pattern/config for ANY situation with that many patterns, and I would LOVE to hear that mic in Wide/Subcardioid mode :) I didn't notice a price though?

Also, I bet those 107's sound GREAT just running into your 680/60d too! If the price is right, those would be hard to beat overall, if you don't mind dealing with LD's ;)

Yep Bean, there is something tempting about that Neumann name and those sleek black beauties ($1400 new).  Definitely would be the gem of my rig, but gone would be the days of hitting record and heading off into the crowd to do unhealthy things.  lol

I guess I'm wondering if the quality vs price is a real payoff for the typical small venue indoor recording I usually do.  Also, how would they cooperate in matrix with my AKG 460 (CK61)?
LMA: https://archive.org/details/@corfit
SoundCloud: https://soundcloud.com/insideoutrecording
Mics: AKG ck61/ck63 (nBob actives, Naiant PFA) | AKG 568 | CA-14 omni | Studio Projects B3
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Offline F.O.Bean

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Re: Neumann TLM 107 for shows?
« Reply #6 on: May 03, 2016, 11:11:54 AM »
Consider ADK TLs.

Also if you plan to spend that much consider used AKG 414s. They do everything a LD can do, they don't weigh a ton and can be had used for what a single TLM107 costs new.

Thanks for this bit of knowledge!  I didn't know about the ADK TLs.  Now that I have listened to examples and comparisons I will consider.  I found one on Ebay for under $300.  I have considered the AKG 414 too.  I guess I will stew on it for awhile given the price of the AKG 414 and Neumann 107 ($1400 each new).

I agree, the ADK TLs are amazing mics, especially for the $$, and having that hyper pattern :) If you can find a used pair of those, you could play with them and see if LDs are for you, since you just have SDs/Mini mics at the moment ;) BUT, those Neumanns look badass and I bet they do sound better than the TLs, and better for $1,400/each new lol ;D 8) You could run the Neumanns in whatever config you wanted, and then have the 461s DIN consistently, or something like that, and do a 4channel matrix ;D
Schoeps MK 4V & MK 41V ->
Schoeps 250|0 KCY's (x2) ->
Naiant +60v|Low Noise PFA's (x2) ->
DarkTrain Right Angle Stubby XLR's (x3) ->
Sound Devices MixPre-6 & MixPre-3

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Offline acidjack

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Re: Neumann TLM 107 for shows?
« Reply #7 on: May 03, 2016, 02:14:40 PM »
I haven't owned those Neumanns, but I have owned the AKGs and have listened to others' recordings with the Neumanns. If as you say the Neumanns and AKGs are equivalent in price (I got my AKGs used for $1200 for the set, IIRC) I would go for the Neumanns.
Mics: Schoeps MK4V, MK41V, MK5, MK22> CMC6, KCY 250/5, KC5, NBob; MBHO MBP603/KA200N, AT 3031, DPA 4061 w/ d:vice, Naiant X-X, AT 853c, shotgun, Nak300
Pres/Power: Aerco MP2, tinybox v2  [KCY], CA-UBB
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Offline goodcooker

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Re: Neumann TLM 107 for shows?
« Reply #8 on: May 03, 2016, 02:50:45 PM »

The AKG 414s are a lot more likely to be found used as a pair in a kit with accessories. The going price for used pairs of 414 XLIIs is the same as a single TLM 107.

Don't listen to Bean when he says that the Neumanns sound better. We all know from years of listening to his rambling what kind of gear he has run and a pair of TLM 107s ain't it.

If I had the coin laying around I would buy a pair of TLM107s. If I had never run LD mics in the field before and was unfamiliar with what a pain in the ass it is to schlep around all the weight and associated bulky shockmounts I might spend a little less and get some ADK TLs. They have a very Neumannish sound. If you found yourself running them often you could send them in to Larry at ADK and get a reproduction U67 capsule put in them and still come out way ahead on price.

I hardly ever run my ADK TLs anymore because it's just too much of a pain and people complain about blocked sightlines.

If price is no object, get up to the plate and swing away!
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Offline acidjack

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Re: Neumann TLM 107 for shows?
« Reply #9 on: May 04, 2016, 09:21:55 AM »

The AKG 414s are a lot more likely to be found used as a pair in a kit with accessories. The going price for used pairs of 414 XLIIs is the same as a single TLM 107.

Don't listen to Bean when he says that the Neumanns sound better. We all know from years of listening to his rambling what kind of gear he has run and a pair of TLM 107s ain't it.

If I had the coin laying around I would buy a pair of TLM107s. If I had never run LD mics in the field before and was unfamiliar with what a pain in the ass it is to schlep around all the weight and associated bulky shockmounts I might spend a little less and get some ADK TLs. They have a very Neumannish sound. If you found yourself running them often you could send them in to Larry at ADK and get a reproduction U67 capsule put in them and still come out way ahead on price.

I hardly ever run my ADK TLs anymore because it's just too much of a pain and people complain about blocked sightlines.

If price is no object, get up to the plate and swing away!

A lot of wisdom here. I've also owned a giant stereo LD mic (the Stereo Projects LSD2) and as much fun as giant mics are to play with, I kept on discovering that even though it was somehow amusing to have all these options with switchable patterns and whatnot, my recordings kept coming out sounding.... about as good as (or worse than) a stereo pair of nice SDCs.  Now if you really need to do more studio-type work, recording bands onstage or in a whole bunch of random configurations, it's a different story. That was a big reason I got the 414s and they served that purpose better than trying to guess what SDCs I'd need at any given time. But once that project went away, I didn't find them to be worth the extra effort. Not to mention that hanging some LDs like that from a balcony is downright scary.

One other thing on the Neumann 107 sound -- FWIW my buddy owns the 102s (I believe the fixed cardiod version of the 107, but someone keep me honest) and they sound really good outdoors. I've recorded next to them a bunch of times and found I preferred their sound in those environments to my Schoeps or to the sound of my former pair of AKGs. Hardly a scientific comparison, but...
Mics: Schoeps MK4V, MK41V, MK5, MK22> CMC6, KCY 250/5, KC5, NBob; MBHO MBP603/KA200N, AT 3031, DPA 4061 w/ d:vice, Naiant X-X, AT 853c, shotgun, Nak300
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Offline Fried Chicken Boy

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Re: Neumann TLM 107 for shows?
« Reply #10 on: May 04, 2016, 11:38:29 AM »
A lot of wisdom here.

QFT. 

Like acidjack, I used to run a set of AKG 414s in the field quite a bit.  Multi-pattern LDs are like the "Swiss Army knife" of mics and I made some awesome recordings with them, especially when the conditions were just right.  But similarly to others in this thread, they've been pretty much sidelined due to the larger size, added weight, etc, compared to SDCs and without a great enough sonic difference to justify the added hassle.  And 414s are "small" for LDs.  I still want to take them out in the field at times, but then I consider the smaller footprint and easier setup of my actives and you can probably guess what wins out in the end. 

There's no doubt that the TLM107s are great mics and sound amazing; there's also some logic in buying exactly what you want from the outset (the old idiom of "buy nice or buy twice").  On the other side of the coin, if you don't have experience with LD mics, especially using them in the field, the cost of the 107s is a really big outlay when there are other microphones in a similar vein for a fraction of the price.  Anyway, my 0.02, etc.

Offline HealthCov Chris

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Re: Neumann TLM 107 for shows?
« Reply #11 on: May 06, 2016, 01:49:04 AM »
Ok, I think I've been talked off the "go broke for a hobby" ledge.  I do want a multi-pattern LD mic since I only have the cardioid caps for my AKG 460s and a pair of different pattern caps cost $600.  I'm financing whatever I get, so used likely won't work.  I'm now looking at the AKG C314 and AT4050.  I like the super cardioid option on c314. It sounds more directional than my cards and is half the cost of the 107s.

With my typical recording situation, I want to put the LD's split on stage with my tascam dr-60.  Then run my AKG 460 (61s) from the back with a soundboard feed to my 680 in small venues.  It's easy enough to run out to the car for the LDs.  I also want to use them at festivals. 

I imagine I will grow tired of the extra size and weight hassle at some point, but I will like having the options moving forward. 
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Offline waltmon

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Re: Neumann TLM 107 for shows?
« Reply #12 on: May 06, 2016, 12:14:01 PM »
I ran 461's with 150's and they sound great together as a 4 channel recording
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Offline goodcooker

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Re: Neumann TLM 107 for shows?
« Reply #13 on: May 07, 2016, 11:33:34 AM »
[quote/]

I imagine I will grow tired of the extra size and weight hassle at some point, but I will like having the options moving forward.
[/quote]

I don't run them much because of the PITA factor but I'm not likely to let my TLs go anytime soon. Pretty handy being able to show up to a gig and decide what polar pattern and config to run on the spot.
Line Audio CM3/OM1 || MBHO KA500 hyper>PFA|| ADK A51 type IV || AKG C522XY
Oade Warm Mod and Presence+ Mod UA5s || Aerco MP2(needs help) || Neve Portico 5012 || Apogee MMP
SD Mixpre6 || Oade Concert Mod DR100mkii

pocket sized - CA11 cards > SP SB10 > Sony PCM A10

http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/goodcooker

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Offline Fried Chicken Boy

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Re: Neumann TLM 107 for shows?
« Reply #14 on: May 07, 2016, 02:50:00 PM »
I don't run them much because of the PITA factor but I'm not likely to let my TLs go anytime soon.

How I feel about my 414s.  They'll take them from me when they pry them from my cold, dead fingers, etc, etc...

To the OP, the C314 mics look like a good option but if you decide to go the AKG route you could likely find a pair of used 414s for the price of a set of new 314s.  Just some food for thought. 

Offline airbladder

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Re: Neumann TLM 107 for shows?
« Reply #15 on: May 08, 2016, 07:44:12 PM »
I don't find the size or weight my u89s to be an issue. I have something smaller when I want to go low profile. But I don't have an Issue using the 89s in most situations.  I guess it depends on what kind of taping you do.  If you like the mics you don't mind using them.
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Offline lsd2525

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Re: Neumann TLM 107 for shows?
« Reply #16 on: May 09, 2016, 03:10:29 PM »
I don't find the size or weight my u89s to be an issue. I have something smaller when I want to go low profile. But I don't have an Issue using the 89s in most situations.  I guess it depends on what kind of taping you do.  If you like the mics you don't mind using them.

ummmm U89's <drool> <slobber>
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Offline ArchivalAudio

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Re: Neumann TLM 107 for shows?
« Reply #17 on: May 13, 2016, 04:43:02 PM »
I love my Milab DC-196's as they are small large diaphram mics light and compact widest part of the body is only 27mm.
http://www.milabmic.com/showproduct.asp?id=1133&show=specs
see = Net weight 230 g Length 145 mm Diameter c27 mm

Though107 's would be very sweet.
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Offline DSatz

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Re: Neumann TLM 107 for shows?
« Reply #18 on: May 13, 2016, 08:32:29 PM »
I take it that (to put it bluntly) you've already heard the reasons why large-diaphragm microphones offer only disadvantages for two-mike stereo recording, and that you're fully aware that professional recording engineers almost never use them for that purpose, but you've decided to ignore that information. OK--so have you considered the TLM 103? That is a very rare item: a single-diaphragm LDC. It maintains its directivity down to the lowest audio frequencies--which means that for stereo recording, the low-frequency pickup doesn't collapse into near-mono. (Of course it helps if you angle your pair of mikes far enough apart; I would suggest 120 degrees as a starting point for experimentation.)

The high-frequency response has enough of an elevation to be distinctly audible, but it's not "peaky," and it's high enough in frequency that it avoids making the upper midrange sound harsh.

--best regards
« Last Edit: May 13, 2016, 08:34:51 PM by DSatz »
music > microphones > a recorder of some sort

Offline DATPAT

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Re: Neumann TLM 107 for shows?
« Reply #19 on: June 03, 2016, 01:59:41 AM »
If you look at my signature line you can see i run alot of different mic's including several LD's. There are arguments for using just about anything at any time. I can speak for that line of thought as i typically don't run the same set up every time i tape. I think about the venue, band, my mood, the distance i'll need to walk to the venue with my gear,  and i pick out what suites me best.  I can tell you i have made sick recordings with inexpensive gear and so so recordings with very expensive gear. It really is subjective, and the the results you get are often about using the right gear at the right location. However, to specifically address your question. I have the 414's and they are a good sounding mic and i have the 102. Which are different than the 107. The 107 actually is in the same family as the 103. My understanding on the 103 and 107 are that they have a slight presence peak (Ie. HF boost from 7500 up). This can be a plus in some situations but could be a detractor in others. Also most of the time i use LD's i'll either need to use a Low Hz. Roll off or i'll feel i'll need to but won't. My 2 cents.
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