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Author Topic: Why is this not a good idea. wcgr  (Read 2660 times)

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Offline Elguapo511

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Why is this not a good idea. wcgr
« on: January 22, 2018, 07:32:11 PM »
I have a tascam dr-2d  and i just cam across a pair of electro voice 655c (http://www.coutant.org/655c/1643.jpg)

So... I used a xlr > stereo 1/8 inch plug to just run these mics right into the dr-2d mic in  and it works fine.   

my plan is to somewhat stealth these in a loud club.

I assume I am going to run out of battery pretty fast.... but other than that, where am I going to suffer?

Poor pre amp of the tascam? they aren't too bad.  will the mics overload?

Seems like u should buy a preamp to go between, but I'm wondering why this slim and trim rig is a bad idea.

thanks all.

Offline Fatah Ruark (aka MIKE B)

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Re: Why is this not a good idea. wcgr
« Reply #1 on: January 22, 2018, 08:25:54 PM »
Those look awfully large for stealthing, but if you can get away with it more power to you.

I don't know anything about them so can't help with battery life or the sound.

The pre-amp in your recorder is fine. No need for another. I'd spend money on better mics to start out.
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Offline EmRR

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Re: Why is this not a good idea. wcgr
« Reply #2 on: January 22, 2018, 10:35:13 PM »
655C's can compete, you'd be surprised.  No phantom to pull battery down, nice.  Indeed, they are big. 

Offline Elguapo511

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Re: Why is this not a good idea. wcgr
« Reply #3 on: January 23, 2018, 12:58:56 AM »
I guess stealth is the wrong word... yes they are huge,   I guess just low profile for transportation,  and ability to  drink a lot while taping.

They are Omni dynamics and pick up everything so I need to get pretty close,  so small clubs are where it’s at.

Also tryouts by not to get in anyone’s way, band or staff or patrons .

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Why is this not a good idea. wcgr
« Reply #4 on: January 23, 2018, 09:18:50 AM »
I assume I am going to run out of battery pretty fast....

DR2d runs about 5-6 hours on a pair of rechargeable NiMH AA's (recording 4 channels without providing mic power).  If I recall correctly, disposable lithium AAs will run it for about twice that, but double check before you rely on that figure.
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Offline daspyknows

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Re: Why is this not a good idea. wcgr
« Reply #5 on: January 23, 2018, 09:57:26 AM »
I assume I am going to run out of battery pretty fast....

DR2d runs about 5-6 hours on a pair of rechargeable NiMH AA's (recording 4 channels without providing mic power).  If I recall correctly, disposable lithium AAs will run it for about twice that, but double check before you rely on that figure.

Energizer Ultimate  Lithium good for 8 to 10 hours.  This option should sound much better than the internals.

Offline Elguapo511

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Re: Why is this not a good idea. wcgr
« Reply #6 on: January 23, 2018, 11:09:02 AM »
Much better than the internals?    Do you mean that batteries have an affect on sound quality?
Or are you referring to the internal mics?

Offline KISSFAN

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Re: Why is this not a good idea. wcgr
« Reply #7 on: January 23, 2018, 01:50:43 PM »
  and ability to  drink a lot while taping.

hmmm, i guess I never thought of that as a bright side. good luck with that

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Re: Why is this not a good idea. wcgr
« Reply #8 on: January 23, 2018, 01:52:32 PM »
Much better than the internals?    Do you mean that batteries have an affect on sound quality?
Or are you referring to the internal mics?

Referring to the internal mics

Offline nak700s

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Re: Why is this not a good idea. wcgr
« Reply #9 on: January 26, 2018, 02:30:24 PM »
I'm not sure why you'd want to use a mic with this polar pattern in the middle of a crowd at a club/bar, but to each their own and all that.  I'm assuming that these mics are not self powered, and therefore will drain the deck to a certain extent using phantom power.  Yes, a pre-amp would be batter than using the internal pre on your deck, but all considered, it shouldn't be a significant difference.  Unless you are running for a few hours without an opportunity to change batteries, there is no issue, just bring extra batteries and change them if you feel the need.
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Offline EmRR

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Re: Why is this not a good idea. wcgr
« Reply #10 on: January 26, 2018, 04:19:11 PM »
I'm not sure why you'd want to use a mic with this polar pattern in the middle of a crowd at a club/bar, but to each their own and all that.  I'm assuming that these mics are not self powered, and therefore will drain the deck to a certain extent using phantom power. 

Eh, people use DPA 4061's in this position, right?   No power needed, these are dynamic mics. 

Offline nak700s

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Re: Why is this not a good idea. wcgr
« Reply #11 on: January 26, 2018, 05:02:14 PM »
I'm not sure why you'd want to use a mic with this polar pattern in the middle of a crowd at a club/bar, but to each their own and all that.  I'm assuming that these mics are not self powered, and therefore will drain the deck to a certain extent using phantom power. 

Eh, people use DPA 4061's in this position, right?   No power needed, these are dynamic mics.

I wouldn't...but that's just me.  Yours is a wide Omni pattern, which should bring in more crowd.  I like a directional microphone when in the middle of a crowd.  All that matters is that you're happy with your recordings.  If you don't need phantom power, then the power drain shouldn't be significant enough to be concerned, but bringing an extra set of batteries is never a bad idea.  If the concern is only about the sound quality, run the set-up at home under controlled conditions with silence between your changes, and you'll hear if there's something to worry about.  Good luck and have fun!
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Offline jcable77

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Re: Why is this not a good idea. wcgr
« Reply #12 on: January 26, 2018, 05:10:25 PM »
  and ability to  drink a lot while taping.

hmmm, i guess I never thought of that as a bright side. good luck with that
Ive never had much luck with this idea. Even when not even plannimg on it.
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Offline Elguapo511

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Re: Why is this not a good idea. wcgr
« Reply #13 on: January 27, 2018, 03:38:10 PM »
I am using these mic because they are all I have.

I have three ev 655c and one other directional dynamic that I put right in front of the vocal speaker.

It’s a small stage and I can put the mics anywhere.

Next question.
Should I burry the mics in the stage close to the drums and amps?  Or perimeter the stage in a triangle of sorts?

Offline illconditioned

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Re: Why is this not a good idea. wcgr
« Reply #14 on: January 27, 2018, 06:40:09 PM »
Hey, those are nice mics. :)

Good frequency response and don't need phantom power.

I have never recorded live shows with dynamics, but these would be worth a try.
Also, these might also be worth a bit as studio/ vintage mics.

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Offline fanofjam

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Re: Why is this not a good idea. wcgr
« Reply #15 on: January 28, 2018, 08:34:05 AM »
Next question.
Should I burry the mics in the stage close to the drums and amps?  Or perimeter the stage in a triangle of sorts?

The closer you place the mics to an instrument, the more prominent is that instrument in a recording.  The danger is that getting too close to one of the sound sources drowns out everything else, so unless you have multiple mics and a multi track recorder so you can isolate on each instrument, getting too close isn't a good idea for stereo recording. 

I'd try to position the left mic so that it picks up equal volumes of the instruments on the left side of the stage and same for the right side.  Unfortunately, its not always easy to do that because instruments in stage aren't always the same volume, especially if there's a drummer and he plays agressive.  Use your ears to determine the best spot. 

Finally, a typical challenge with stage mic'ing is getting good vocals since the vocals are usually only projected through one of the  stage monitors and through the PA stack out into the audience.  The typical on-stage recording has vocals that sound faint and distant in the recording.  Ideally you'd have a separate mic dedicated to recording vocals, say by mic'ing the vocal monitor, but it sounds like this isn't an option for your current rig.  In that case you might need to either move the mics out into the audience and record the sound coming from the PA or just live with a recording with faint vocals. (This is one of the reasons I love instrumental bands...lol.)

Offline Elguapo511

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Re: Why is this not a good idea. wcgr
« Reply #16 on: January 28, 2018, 12:28:05 PM »
I am lacking the talent to use these in studio.

So the clubs have the action.  And a nice tight room can has the magic

Offline Elguapo511

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Re: Why is this not a good idea. wcgr
« Reply #17 on: January 28, 2018, 03:00:02 PM »
The tascam dr-2d has two stereo inputs,  so it’s a four track recorder.

I have one mic dedicated to vocals and three of these Omni directional dynamic s

It’s a weird rig,  but the mics are very clear and balanced, and pics up everything.
Next question.
Should I burry the mics in the stage close to the drums and amps?  Or perimeter the stage in a triangle of sorts?

The closer you place the mics to an instrument, the more prominent is that instrument in a recording.  The danger is that getting too close to one of the sound sources drowns out everything else, so unless you have multiple mics and a multi track recorder so you can isolate on each instrument, getting too close isn't a good idea for stereo recording. 

I'd try to position the left mic so that it picks up equal volumes of the instruments on the left side of the stage and same for the right side.  Unfortunately, its not always easy to do that because instruments in stage aren't always the same volume, especially if there's a drummer and he plays agressive.  Use your ears to determine the best spot. 

Finally, a typical challenge with stage mic'ing is getting good vocals since the vocals are usually only projected through one of the  stage monitors and through the PA stack out into the audience.  The typical on-stage recording has vocals that sound faint and distant in the recording.  Ideally you'd have a separate mic dedicated to recording vocals, say by mic'ing the vocal monitor, but it sounds like this isn't an option for your current rig.  In that case you might need to either move the mics out into the audience and record the sound coming from the PA or just live with a recording with faint vocals. (This is one of the reasons I love instrumental bands...lol.)

Offline nak700s

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Re: Why is this not a good idea. wcgr
« Reply #18 on: January 29, 2018, 01:24:37 PM »
I am using these mic because they are all I have.

I have three ev 655c and one other directional dynamic that I put right in front of the vocal speaker.

It’s a small stage and I can put the mics anywhere.

Next question.
Should I burry the mics in the stage close to the drums and amps?  Or perimeter the stage in a triangle of sorts?

Unfortunately, mic placement when dealing with being able to set up on stage, is a learning curve based solely on your experience with your specific microphones.  You can take our advice, but do so in conjunction with your knowledge of how those mics perform.  That said, here's my advice.  I should also say, I do "stage" recording at least once a week, BUT, my equipment is not the same as your equipment...
In most situations, the vocalists will be up front and have vocal monitors directly in front of them at their feet.  I would recommend using an Omni facing towards the band, on a stand between 2.5 - 3 feet high next to, but partially in front of the monitors angle.  This should assure your vocals are not weak.  Another way, if you have a true 4-track recorder, is to take a line out of the soundboard for two of the channels, and use microphones directed more at the bass and drums, as they are not usually mic'd or running through the board in small bars.  If you only have one directional mic, use it for something more distant on stage, like the bass, which is often located towards the back in smaller venues.  On stage mic applications are a good use for Omni's as they will draw a little crowd noise , creating a warmer, more live sound (especially if the band is personable and responds to the audience).  It is also OK to direct an Omni directly between two instrument's amps, or drums, etc.  I hate to tell you this, but it may take more than one try to get it right, so write down what you do to compare recordings going forward.  Most of all, have fun with it!  It's a lot of fun experimenting like this when you have free range with the band.
Normal: Nakamichi CM-700's >> SD 744T (or) Sony PCM-M10
Normal: Crown CM-700's >> SD 302 >> SD 744T
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Stealth: CA-14c >> CA 9200 >> Edirol R-09HR
Ultra stealth: AudioReality >> AudioReality battery box >> Edirol R-09HR
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Offline Elguapo511

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Re: Why is this not a good idea. wcgr
« Reply #19 on: February 27, 2018, 03:06:04 PM »
these pics are very smooth.

I took them to a JRAD performance at the Riviera and its a nice huge sound.  Lots of talking during the quiet parts and definitely an audience recording.  but its all there.

given that i don't need a pre amp, or extra power to run these, ill  probably stick with them for a while,  cuz its all i got.

 

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