Topic: Mic Upgrade Recommendations

[shlacking]

Hey, since '05 I've been filming performances and have worked well on a really low budget. The mic I used to record with, the Sony ECM-MSD1 had performed much better than I could ever hope for. See any of my recordings here: http://www.stage6.com/eattapes

Recently the wire had begun to fray and the audio would cut out during shooting. Thus, I looked for a new mic and after finding a lot of people saying good things about the Rode VideoMic I decided to give that a try. I used it last night and the performance wasn't as good as I had anticipated. Now, on the mic it has an option to go for a -10dB recording or -20dB so I'm going to try that out tonight but if it doesn't work out, I need to buy a new mic.

I use a Panasonic AG-DVX100b video camera.
My budget is about $150-$200
I'm looking for a mic I can attach to the camera (yes I realize soundboard recordings are better but my circumstances call for a recording direct to the tape.)
At this point I'm tempted to just go back and buy another one of those Sonys since, like I said, it performed so well.

So if any of you guys can recommend a mic that may be better for live concert recordings that fit into what I'm looking for that would be highly appreciated.


(I hate to stop into your forum and simply ask a question but I recognize you are very knowledgeable about the audio side of recordings and this is something I know very little about. So please forgive me if I seem rude asking a question as my first (and maybe only) thread.)

--mike

[stantheman1976]

You got bad results from the Rode VideoMic because it's not intended to be used in that enviornment(sp?).  The Rode VM is a mono shotgun style mic that is for fairly close voice work.  Mount it on a boom polec or a camera 5' away from a person you're interviewing and you'll realize it's a great mic when used correctly. 

The Rode Stereo VideoMic is much better for your applications.  Or check out the AT822.  I'm looking to get one of those for myself sometime.  The Sony ECM-MS907/908C is a decent budget-minded choice.  Personally I'd check into the AT822.   

[John Kary]

I used an AT822 for an audience mic at about 50' @ FOH and it was slightly distorting when I used it.  The SPL meter at FOH was reading about 100dB at the time.

[stantheman1976]

Maybe try the Sony series then.  I haven't filmed any loud concerts close up but I've filmed high school proms right next to the extremely loud DJ in a tiny ballroom and it was nice and clear.  I was using a Panasonic PV-GS400.

[jkmb]

That's interesting that you have experienced distortion with the at822 at 100db.  I have one that I use, plugged into a Pd170... and it does tend to distort with moderately loud shows with the gun-n-run setup of at822>pd170. 

I really like the imaging of the at822, close to source, in medium to lower SPL environments and I certainly change that AA battery frequently (every 2 hours.) 

What's funny is that when the situation gets loud, I pull out my Church Audio rig and Velcro it to my pd170 with the aid of a few adaptors from Sound Professionals, and the st-11 mics are mounted with Chris' (SP)  at853 style mic holders via the hot-shoe.  Looks like rabbit ears, but actually pulls workable sound at higher SPLs on the relative cheap.

[John Kary]

I used an AT822 for an audience mic at about 50' @ FOH and it was slightly distorting when I used it.  The SPL meter at FOH was reading about 100dB at the time.

I should also include that this was running AT822 elevated 9ft on boom stand running into a Tascam HD-P2.  The stereo-imaging was pretty good, but the slightly distortion during peaks was pretty annoying.  Even if running the input down on the HD-P2 to where it was peaking at about -12dB it was still distorting, so I'm pretty sure it was the mic.

[shlacking]

Bump, any other help? If I up'd my budget by another $50-$100 dollars or so what is available to me? Also is there any audio examples of the AT822 around? If there is anything of an AT822 filming live music that would be super helpful.

[jkmb]

My cam that records the main audio sits stationary.   So…. for $225 I would seriously consider that pair of Studio Projects C4s at the top of the yard sale.  You could fly them from a light stand, 10 feet up, next to your cam and not have to worry about bumping your mics while zooming/panning your camera.   Just a thought – and where I am going next.

Send me an email if you would like some at822 audio, but, I think they sound “similar” to most of the recordings off the archive.  Let me know if I can help.

[firmdragon]

well if you're looking for a cheap mic, that' provides probably very little bass response, but wont' distort on you , you could try the realistic 33-1065.  they can be had so cheaply on ebay that it's worth buying just to try out.

[shlacking]

I appreciate the suggestions guys. I can't find your email but I would really like some of those samples.

[jkmb]

Email sent

[Nick's Picks]

that's a tight price range.
IMO, id stick w/what  you know.  find a newer version sony or that same one (or fix it).
ebay has hundreds of sony ECM series stereo mics for this purpose.

that might not be much help..., but its advise.
:0)

if the original sony is just having wiring issues, I'll try and fix it for you if you'd like.  i'm handy w/that stuff.

[firmdragon]

realistics would sound very similar to this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIm5R91A-Gk
i should mention however, that this mic doesn't have any way to mount it on a camera.  one would need to glue a shoe adapter or something on it, which is what i did.

[John Kary]

The majority of the videos from my 2002-2004 were with that Realistic 33-1065 mic firmdragon recommended.  You can see a lot of my old shows on my YouTube channel:

http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=kfropes

I do still have mine if you would be interested in buying it.

The SP C4's mentioned above are my A-list mics right now.  I run them @ FOH each on their own stand and separated for stereo image.  Beautiful clear highs and full low-end.  I would say they do the job of a mic 2-3x their price.

[shlacking]

Can I make something work so the SP C4s attach to my camcorder? They sound like they're right up my alley.

[stantheman1976]

You could get an adapter from Beachtek that has XLR inputs, phanthom power, an built in preamp.
http://www.beachtek.com/dxa6hd.html

It says it's for Sony cameras but with the mini plug it should work with any camcorder.  It's close to $500 though.  You can contact Beachtek and make sure it would work for you.

[shlacking]

I appreciate your suggestion but I don't need any of that stuff and to spend $500 just to attach a mic to my camera isn't really in my budget. hah

I was thinking more a long the lines of gluing a hot shoe to them or something.

[shlacking]

So jkmb was nice enough to point me in the direction of the NT4. I listened to some samples on the RODE website and I was blown away.

Literally 97% of my performances are filmed on stage, this mic looks like it is probably going to be the one. Does anyone have anything to say  about it (either pro or con)? I was also looking at the Avantone CK-1. Would this give the NT4 a run for it's money?

As always, thanks so much for the help.

[Nick's Picks]

I can't see how that would work w/o being large and cumbersome.
I'd stick w/a stereo mic made for what you're doing.

examples
  the AT pro24
under $100.  probably sounds like crap and would distort...but you never know.

Rhode NT4 (battery operated), can be found new under $400


Sony MS957 (a decent sounding mic, IMO)


then there is this thing:  http://tinyurl.com/yublqa
have no idea what it is.  but its cheap.

there are other cheapo's out there as well.  but for what you're doing i'd stick w/the Sony's (for the money), or buck up for the NT4.

Edirol makes a stereo mic too, for the R09.  but it would work w/a battery box and camcorder too.
its also inexpensive.

[shlacking]

Thank you.

Does anyone know how NT4s do with loud volumes?

[Nick's Picks]

i've never used one, but I have seen them used many times for all sorts of loud bands.
i'm sure it'd be no problem.  I bet their www site will even tell you what it can handle spl wise.

[shlacking]

I actually did check Rode's site and they have a nice media section where you can listen to different recordings.

This is definitely the mic for me. All I need to do now is find the right price.

Thanks so much for everyone's help. I think I really am making the right decision this time.

[Nick's Picks]

pays to do your homework.
+T

[guitard]

If you were happy with the Sony mic you were using, why not send it to Chris Church and get it repaired.  He repaired some mics for me that sounded like they had a similar problem.  And he only charged me shipping - the repair was free.  I'm not saying he'll do it for free for you also, but I'm sure the cost will be very reasonable.

[shlacking]

Well I figured my old one broke so now was a good time for an upgrade.

[Todd R]

For that budget, you might want to think about a set of Chris Church's cardioid mics and either his ST-9000 preamp or his ST-9100 preamp.  Find a way to rig up the mics to your camera, though you'll also have the Church preamp to deal with as well.

But for around $200-300, these will probably be one of your better choices.  Full size mics like the SP C4s will be that much more to deal with, plus you'll need a preamp or at least a phantom power supply to go with them.

http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,80054.0.html

[rastasean]

I can't see how that would work w/o being large and cumbersome.
I'd stick w/a stereo mic made for what you're doing.

examples
  the AT pro24
under $100.  probably sounds like crap and would distort...but you never know.

THe pro24 isn't that bad. I bought mine for $40 from a pawn shop. I sure wouldn't drop $100 for a mic like this. I have a sony ecm-907 that I als bought from a pawn shop for about $40 and its pretty great. I've used it with recording video and I don't have any complaints. The adapter that comes with it, its the worst design ever and should have never been used. You can switch from 180 degrees to 90 degrees on the mic. which is also a new thing. New, I think they sell for $80 which I also wouldn't pay.

Go check out your pawn shops and yard sales. Sometimes they have junk for a lot of money and other times its decent. I have an AT3035 on lawaway right now. They wanted $100, but she dropped it 20 bux. $80 for a $200 mic, I'll take. Don't ask me when I'll be using it but its practically brand new. I couldn't pass it up.

Anyway, you'll find something that will work for your application, just give it time. You can't expect great sound from the very first shoot or else you're setting yourself of for major disappointment.

[jim90501]

Hi,

Also is there any audio examples of the AT822 around? If there is anything of an AT822 filming live music that would be super helpful.

I have put a short recording of an AT822 into an R09 up at
http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/edirolr1/files/SampleAt822R09/

I've feed my Sony HC3 with the AT822 while playing around. Seems ok, but didn't do any
loud stuff.

thanks
jim cowan