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Author Topic: 722 users....a/d stage opinions?  (Read 26170 times)

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marc0789

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722 users....a/d stage opinions?
« on: August 03, 2005, 11:18:32 AM »
any? compared to v3, adk, mme, mytek, whatever?

Offline Lil Kim Jong-Il

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Re: 722 users....a/d stage opinions?
« Reply #1 on: August 03, 2005, 11:46:44 AM »
I'm just now running the V3 with the 722 for the first time.   I haven't had enough time to make an assessment.  I can throw out some samples if that will help you.
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Offline Kindguy

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Re: 722 users....a/d stage opinions?
« Reply #2 on: August 03, 2005, 11:59:34 AM »
I'm also curious.
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marc0789

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Re: 722 users....a/d stage opinions?
« Reply #3 on: August 03, 2005, 12:00:49 PM »
yeah, to me this is only worth doing if the a/d is a substantial upgrade over a modsbm1.

Offline nickgregory

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Re: 722 users....a/d stage opinions?
« Reply #4 on: August 03, 2005, 12:03:43 PM »
so I have a hard time comparing in that I went from V3 at 16 bit to 722 at 24 bit....I never had a frame of reference at the 24 bit level for the V3.  So the substantial jump in clarity and resolution I hear may have alot more to do with the extra 8 bits I am hearing...I would definitely be interested in hearing some direct comps of the A/D stage

Offline Todd R

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Re: 722 users....a/d stage opinions?
« Reply #5 on: August 03, 2005, 12:09:33 PM »
Doesn't cbd have both a V3 and a 744?  Source 1) 4022> V3 (digital)> 744, Source 2) 4022> V3 (analog)> 744, all at the same time.  Time to put that slacking lawyer to work. ;)
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marc0789

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Re: 722 users....a/d stage opinions?
« Reply #6 on: August 03, 2005, 12:10:03 PM »
so I have a hard time comparing in that I went from V3 at 16 bit to 722 at 24 bit....I never had a frame of reference at the 24 bit level for the V3.  So the substantial jump in clarity and resolution I hear may have alot more to do with the extra 8 bits I am hearing...I would definitely be interested in hearing some direct comps of the A/D stage

kinda thought that would be tough Nick, almost have to do a v3 versus 722 16 bit comp.

Offline nickgregory

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Re: 722 users....a/d stage opinions?
« Reply #7 on: August 03, 2005, 12:11:00 PM »
Doesn't cbd have both a V3 and a 744? Source 1) 4022> V3 (digital)> 744, Source 2) 4022> V3 (analog)> 744, all at the same time. Time to put that slacking lawyer to work. ;)

Davis running 4 channels at once..surely you jest :P

Offline Lil Kim Jong-Il

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Re: 722 users....a/d stage opinions?
« Reply #8 on: August 03, 2005, 12:12:49 PM »
It's not a wide range of samples, but I have 3 recent shows recorded V3>AES>722 and now two shows V3>line>722 all at 24/96.

I have not burned any DVDs so I have not listened to them on the big system in a way that allows a decent comparison.  General comments are that there is a distinct difference between V3 ADC and 722 ADC but I do not have a preference at this point.   Also,  the use of the V3 as pre-amp really seemed to improve the sound over the 722 preamp alone.   
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Offline nickgregory

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Re: 722 users....a/d stage opinions?
« Reply #9 on: August 03, 2005, 12:44:51 PM »
does anyone really like the 722 as an all in one solution? the more i read on here the more i'm relieved i never bought one. yeah, i know i sound like bean ;)
 

I do.....that being said I have no doubt that a V2 would help the 722 reach its full potential, but to me, the benefit I think I would get would not be enough to convince to me to add another box, interconnects and batteries to my gear bag.  At this point in my taping life, I am tired of carrying a heavy bag, and really enjoy the fact that my bag weighs 10 lbs vs the 30 it used to...would I get a sound improvement though?  I am guessing yes, grace is the best in the business, but I am guessing for me personally it would not be enough to sway me.

edited to add that I dont think this is comparable to a mics->da-p1 scenario...where there was quite a bit of "middleware" that would improve the sound...I think there are very few pieces of gear that could drive an improvement to the sound...the 722 sounds really good to my ears
« Last Edit: August 03, 2005, 12:46:55 PM by nickgregory »

Offline Swanny

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Re: 722 users....a/d stage opinions?
« Reply #10 on: August 03, 2005, 12:51:25 PM »
I thought is sounded quite good, but we really don't have a lot of other 24bit options to compare it to yet. I liked it better with the 148 in the mix. It is all that though. I think I'll buy one as soon I hear the Fr-2 and the flashtracker.
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Offline Zee

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Re: 722 users....a/d stage opinions?
« Reply #11 on: August 03, 2005, 12:59:26 PM »
does anyone really like the 722 as an all in one solution?  the more i read on here the more i'm relieved i never bought one.  yeah, i know i sound like bean ;)
 


I really like the sound of my 4022>722 but when I added the v2 back in the mix I found it to be a little more transparent. Personally I like the A/D in this box and I think the v2 helps it out a little. When I need to stealth Ill leave the V2 at home and still have a fabulous 24bit recording. So far an all in one box I guess it’s just what you want to haul around in the field. I don’t mind the extra weight of the V2 and 6v SLA.
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Offline Lil Kim Jong-Il

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Re: 722 users....a/d stage opinions?
« Reply #12 on: August 03, 2005, 01:13:54 PM »
Its good a standalone solution, but I just like playing with different gear.  When I want a light load or need to be low profile, I have no reservations using the 722 by itself.
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Offline Brian

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Re: 722 users....a/d stage opinions?
« Reply #13 on: August 03, 2005, 01:21:57 PM »
does anyone really like the 722 as an all in one solution? the more i read on here the more i'm relieved i never bought one. yeah, i know i sound like bean ;)
 

i personally like my schoeps>722 recordings a lot. the schoeps seem to be a good match with teh SD as an all-in-1.  The V2 helps tighten the low end makes the highs nice and pristine.  To put in terms of grades......schoeps>722 = A ; schoeps>v2>722 = A+  (to me) ;D
« Last Edit: August 03, 2005, 01:23:32 PM by Brian Sax »

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Re: 722 users....a/d stage opinions?
« Reply #14 on: August 03, 2005, 01:56:56 PM »
shoot, seeing nick w/o mg's is like seeing jeter w/o a yankee's uniform :)

yeah, definitely kind of odd for me too...but I am getting used to it :D

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Re: 722 users....a/d stage opinions?
« Reply #15 on: August 03, 2005, 02:04:41 PM »
the only mics i prefer over mg's are shempz mk21 but thats because mg doesnt make a subcard.
the mg m20 is still the best card cap


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Re: 722 users....a/d stage opinions?
« Reply #16 on: August 03, 2005, 02:29:22 PM »

I really like the sound of my 4022>722 but when I added the v2 back in the mix I found it to be a little more transparent. Personally I like the A/D in this box and I think the v2 helps it out a little. When I need to stealth Ill leave the V2 at home and still have a fabulous 24bit recording. So far an all in one box I guess it’s just what you want to haul around in the field. I don’t mind the extra weight of the V2 and 6v SLA.

see, knowing Natelsky, i'm betting he would like 4022 > 722 better because he always found 4022>v2>ad2k too transparent.  i could see you running that 148 in front of it to warm it up too. i don't think i've seen any 4022 > 148 > 722 yet.

then again, Marc, the AD2K+ is a totally different animal at 24 bit. Get in touch with Tractor, he and Adams ran a bunch of different 4022 ~~~ 744 comps this past spring.

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Re: 722 users....a/d stage opinions?
« Reply #17 on: August 03, 2005, 02:34:36 PM »

I really like the sound of my 4022>722 but when I added the v2 back in the mix I found it to be a little more transparent. Personally I like the A/D in this box and I think the v2 helps it out a little. When I need to stealth Ill leave the V2 at home and still have a fabulous 24bit recording. So far an all in one box I guess it’s just what you want to haul around in the field. I don’t mind the extra weight of the V2 and 6v SLA.

see, knowing Natelsky, i'm betting he would like 4022 > 722 better because he always found 4022>v2>ad2k too transparent.  i could see you running that 148 in front of it to warm it up too. i don't think i've seen any 4022 > 148 > 722 yet.

then again, Marc, the AD2K+ is a totally different animal at 24 bit. Get in touch with Tractor, he and Adams ran a bunch of different 4022 ~~~ 744 comps this past spring.


I think Swanny ran a few 4022>m148>722 at 10klf.

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Re: 722 users....a/d stage opinions?
« Reply #18 on: August 03, 2005, 04:31:25 PM »
I have had my 722 for quite a while and have totally enjoyed it.  Ease of operation, quick start up, flexibility, features, all there.   I have run CCM 4's into it a couple of times but mainly my ADK51TL's. 

For that part the mic's are 90% split omni, 9% Card, 1% M/S.  I am quite happy with the sound. 

24-bit is a huge step in sound quality and as for the A/D - maybe the V3 is a little better, after all that is all it does - shouldn't be a little better. 

There is a whole lot of gear packed into one small place that works really well - nobody else has done that much for that PRICE to date.

I have a buddy with and R1 and R4...  The R4 seems pretty nice, plastic, but nice.  The sound from it is good also(new in the last week - no real critical opinion yet).  If it carries its weight it has a whole new level to itself.

Like anything the 722/4 cannot be perfect - for some too big, others its an A/D but at the end of the day it has nothing to be ashamed of.  The quality is fantastic and I for one do not have regrets... 

Maybe the next generation will improove on what we have now.. at least it is not car battery powered cassette recorders and
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Re: 722 users....a/d stage opinions?
« Reply #19 on: August 03, 2005, 04:45:39 PM »
does anyone really like the 722 as an all in one solution? the more i read on here the more i'm relieved i never bought one. yeah, i know i sound like bean ;)
 

i personally like my schoeps>722 recordings a lot. the schoeps seem to be a good match with teh SD as an all-in-1. The V2 helps tighten the low end makes the highs nice and pristine. To put in terms of grades......schoeps>722 = A ; schoeps>v2>722 = A+ (to me) ;D

have you run your schoeps near-coincident into the 722?

I liked the XY tape of yours that I heard much more than the few other schoeps/722 tapes I had heard before
I’ve had a few weird experiences and a few close brushes with total weirdness of one sort or another, but nothing that’s really freaked me out or made me feel too awful about it. - Jerry Garcia

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Re: 722 users....a/d stage opinions?
« Reply #20 on: August 03, 2005, 09:26:40 PM »
Shrinkynuts McAngrypants.....to damn funny! +T  ;D
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My recordings on the Archive

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Re: 722 users....a/d stage opinions?
« Reply #21 on: August 03, 2005, 10:17:42 PM »
Shrinkynuts McAngrypants.....to damn funny! +T ;D

it was a name that they used on The Daily Show right after the hearings ;D

backatcha
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Re: 722 users....a/d stage opinions?
« Reply #22 on: August 04, 2005, 11:36:44 AM »
of all the "one box" solutions out there, i've not heard anything that touches Carls Wmod FR2 ..but it has extra oade tweaks as well.

honerable mention...the mod'd UA5 sounds fucking great in 24bit mode.  real good in fact.
on my system anyway..

Offline Brian

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Re: 722 users....a/d stage opinions?
« Reply #23 on: August 04, 2005, 02:58:12 PM »
does anyone really like the 722 as an all in one solution? the more i read on here the more i'm relieved i never bought one. yeah, i know i sound like bean ;)
 

i personally like my schoeps>722 recordings a lot. the schoeps seem to be a good match with teh SD as an all-in-1. The V2 helps tighten the low end makes the highs nice and pristine. To put in terms of grades......schoeps>722 = A ; schoeps>v2>722 = A+ (to me) ;D

have you run your schoeps near-coincident into the 722?

I liked the XY tape of yours that I heard much more than the few other schoeps/722 tapes I had heard before

yes....that was the only show i ran XY at 10k lakes.

and i'd be lying if i said i didn't "touch up" the recording in post 8)

edit:  whatever moke ::)  :P ;)

Offline chris_jones

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Re: 722 users....a/d stage opinions?
« Reply #24 on: August 04, 2005, 07:31:57 PM »
not sure if it's the pre or the a/d of this box i don't like, but i don't like it standalone.

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Offline Tim

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Re: 722 users....a/d stage opinions?
« Reply #25 on: August 04, 2005, 09:00:20 PM »
does anyone really like the 722 as an all in one solution? the more i read on here the more i'm relieved i never bought one. yeah, i know i sound like bean ;)
 

i personally like my schoeps>722 recordings a lot. the schoeps seem to be a good match with teh SD as an all-in-1. The V2 helps tighten the low end makes the highs nice and pristine. To put in terms of grades......schoeps>722 = A ; schoeps>v2>722 = A+ (to me) ;D

have you run your schoeps near-coincident into the 722?

I liked the XY tape of yours that I heard much more than the few other schoeps/722 tapes I had heard before

yes....that was the only show i ran XY at 10k lakes.

and i'd be lying if i said i didn't "touch up" the recording in post 8)

edit: whatever moke ::) :P ;)

it sounds really, really good...
I’ve had a few weird experiences and a few close brushes with total weirdness of one sort or another, but nothing that’s really freaked me out or made me feel too awful about it. - Jerry Garcia

marc0789

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Re: 722 users....a/d stage opinions?
« Reply #26 on: August 05, 2005, 09:40:31 AM »
not sure if it's the pre or the a/d of this box i don't like, but i don't like it standalone.

chris

I did some critical listening last night, albeit with only the handful of 148>722 shows I have. I do think the a/d is solid, but a *little* vague sounding, and with the tiniest grain to it. Need to listen some more. To my ears, very comparable with the HHB a/d. Which is to say very good, but not quite up to uv22 standards, definitely a few major notches above the trashcan. To me, one of the inviolate taping rules is the *one box rule*. Can't think of one instance when discrete components will not sound better than an all in one unit. Guess I would need to do a 4022>148>modsbm1 versus 4022>m148>722 16 bit versus 24 to really decide, and that ain't gonna happen.

So now I'm fairly torn. The 722 does not, as with some peeps, appeal to me in order to reduce the hassle factor. Totally opposite. It will be a big pita to shell out for the computer, bigger to drop $2400 on the 722, and I will probably spend more time throwing the things to both dvd and cdr. Not to mention that I'm not real big on archiving to disc, even dvd. So the thing has got to sound better than what I run right now, and I have doubts.

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Re: 722 users....a/d stage opinions?
« Reply #27 on: August 05, 2005, 10:01:17 AM »
Marc is your comparison based on you moving to a total one box solution, or keeping the M148?  Curious as I think the jump to 24 bits will likely be a significant improvement, though I understand the comment on the computer and CD/DVD archiving...

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Re: 722 users....a/d stage opinions?
« Reply #28 on: August 05, 2005, 10:09:29 AM »
Marc is your comparison based on you moving to a total one box solution, or keeping the M148?  Curious as I think the jump to 24 bits will likely be a significant improvement, though I understand the comment on the computer and CD/DVD archiving...

no, definitely keeping the 148. No offense, but I have no faith that the 722 could replace a topnotch preamp and a/d.

have the cash and the ok from the wife, which is big.....but I don't want to drop all the cash and time and find myself missing something. Still will probably do it, because frankly I need something to keep me interested in taping right now. :P

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Re: 722 users....a/d stage opinions?
« Reply #29 on: August 05, 2005, 10:12:51 AM »
no, definitely keeping the 148. No offense, but I have no faith that the 722 could replace a topnotch preamp and a/d.

have the cash and the ok from the wife, which is big.....but I don't want to drop all the cash and time and find myself missing something. Still will probably do it, because frankly I need something to keep me interested in taping right now. :P

no offense taken...that is what I thought you were doing....so you were comparing 24 bit files to 16 bit files?  Or were you comparing post processed dithered 24 bit to 16 bit?

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Re: 722 users....a/d stage opinions?
« Reply #30 on: August 05, 2005, 10:29:52 AM »
no, definitely keeping the 148. No offense, but I have no faith that the 722 could replace a topnotch preamp and a/d.

have the cash and the ok from the wife, which is big.....but I don't want to drop all the cash and time and find myself missing something. Still will probably do it, because frankly I need something to keep me interested in taping right now. :P

no offense taken...that is what I thought you were doing....so you were comparing 24 bit files to 16 bit files?  Or were you comparing post processed dithered 24 bit to 16 bit?

not comping at all nick, just sitting back and critically listening to some 148>722 tapes. and I like them a lot.

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Re: 722 users....a/d stage opinions?
« Reply #31 on: August 05, 2005, 10:32:15 AM »
no, definitely keeping the 148. No offense, but I have no faith that the 722 could replace a topnotch preamp and a/d.

have the cash and the ok from the wife, which is big.....but I don't want to drop all the cash and time and find myself missing something. Still will probably do it, because frankly I need something to keep me interested in taping right now. :P

no offense taken...that is what I thought you were doing....so you were comparing 24 bit files to 16 bit files?  Or were you comparing post processed dithered 24 bit to 16 bit?

not comping at all nick, just sitting back and critically listening to some 148>722 tapes. and I like them a lot.

fair enough...curious more than anything...I am always interested to hear how people hear things....

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Re: 722 users....a/d stage opinions?
« Reply #32 on: August 05, 2005, 10:37:39 AM »
he's gonna be buried with his brick nick ;)

my .02cents, not that you asked, is that there is no way in hell you should buy this box unless you have some immediate need to get 24bit shows.  give it another 6 months to a year to let a few more models hit the market, and then take the plunge. 

you can get a nice pc in the meantime, they're handy for audio no matter what imho

honestly, don't care about 24bit at all. Just need a new toy, been awhile. ;D

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Re: 722 users....a/d stage opinions?
« Reply #33 on: August 05, 2005, 10:40:40 AM »
honestly, don't care about 24bit at all. Just need a new toy, been awhile. ;D

understand the new toy comment and when you get wife approval you have to jump almost immediately before that approval gets revoked (my wife made a comment last year about us needing a new tv...HD set bought 24 hours later :P )

but you dont care about 24 bits?  I know that I have heard from some they cant hear the difference...is it that or would you need to go through some changes to your playback system to be able to utilize it?

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Re: 722 users....a/d stage opinions?
« Reply #34 on: August 05, 2005, 11:07:22 AM »
before i could justify going 24bit it was higher priority to upgrade my playback. 
MK 4V > KCY 250/5 Ig (KS 10I)  > VST62IUg > 722

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Re: 722 users....a/d stage opinions?
« Reply #35 on: August 05, 2005, 11:10:11 AM »
honestly, don't care about 24bit at all. Just need a new toy, been awhile. ;D

understand the new toy comment and when you get wife approval you have to jump almost immediately before that approval gets revoked (my wife made a comment last year about us needing a new tv...HD set bought 24 hours later :P )

but you dont care about 24 bits?  I know that I have heard from some they cant hear the difference...is it that or would you need to go through some changes to your playback system to be able to utilize it?

yeah, I don't really think I can properly hear with my current playback. another issue.

Offline nickgregory

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Re: 722 users....a/d stage opinions?
« Reply #36 on: August 05, 2005, 11:12:13 AM »
yeah, I don't really think I can properly hear with my current playback. another issue.

understand that...I am definitely in the market for a speaker upgrade...but it will have to wait til next year...

Offline wboswell

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Re: 722 users....a/d stage opinions?
« Reply #37 on: August 05, 2005, 02:44:32 PM »
before i could justify going 24bit it was higher priority to upgrade my playback. 

qft

this may be the most intelligent thing anyone's said on this site in months... 

marc0789

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Re: 722 users....a/d stage opinions?
« Reply #38 on: August 05, 2005, 02:46:15 PM »
Maybe a better idea to use the wife permission to upgrade. Who has my suggestions for a heady $2300 upgrade?  ;D

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Re: 722 users....a/d stage opinions?
« Reply #39 on: August 05, 2005, 03:06:02 PM »
Maybe a better idea to use the wife permission to upgrade. Who has my suggestions for a heady $2300 upgrade?  ;D

after listening to your Dino Jr. tape you sent, me thinks the playback is the way to go...

http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?spkrfull&1125859434

http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ampstran&1128361073

http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?preatube&1128136593

see Mic D for fluff

Offline JasonSobel

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Re: 722 users....a/d stage opinions?
« Reply #40 on: August 05, 2005, 03:15:22 PM »
before i could justify going 24bit it was higher priority to upgrade my playback. 

qft

this may be the most intelligent thing anyone's said on this site in months... 

actually, I think it's an interesting dilema.  as soon as I upgraded my playback (to the point where 16 bit vs. 24 bit is dramatic, IMO), I decided that I needed to get more 24 bit material to listen to (don't ask why I'm still running a D8).  

So, the question is, do you upgrade your playback first so you cen better hear the deficiencies of 16 bit recordings?  or do you upgrade your recording rig, so at some point in the future, when your playback rig is up to snuff, you can enjoy your older recordings in full 24 bit glory?

BTW, the "correct" answer is to do both.  get yourself a nice playback system and start recording in 24 bit ;)


Quote
I did some critical listening last night, albeit with only the handful of 148>722 shows I have. I do think the a/d is solid, but a *little* vague sounding, and with the tiniest grain to it. Need to listen some more. To my ears, very comparable with the HHB a/d. Which is to say very good, but not quite up to uv22 standards, definitely a few major notches above the trashcan.

not sure exactly what you mean "up to uv22" standards.  it is my understanding that uv22 is a dithering scheme to go from 24 bits down to 16 bit resolution.  (and a dithering scheme that is generally regarded as very good).  but in this context, as a comparison for the 722 A/D, I'm not really sure I understand your comparison.  were the 148>722 sources that you were listening to still at 24 bit?  or had they been dropped down to 16 bit?  and if they were now 16 bit, what program was used for the processing.  Wavelab has the uv22 dither, right?  it is possible to use that dithering process in post, not just "live" when using Apogee products.

marc0789

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Re: 722 users....a/d stage opinions?
« Reply #41 on: August 05, 2005, 03:36:31 PM »
Maybe a better idea to use the wife permission to upgrade. Who has my suggestions for a heady $2300 upgrade?  ;D

after listening to your Dino Jr. tape you sent, me thinks the playback is the way to go...

http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?spkrfull&1125859434

http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ampstran&1128361073

http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?preatube&1128136593

see Mic D for fluff

so does that mean you agree with me that the tape kinda sucks, or that you think it's ok and my playback must suck...which it in fact does. :P

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Re: 722 users....a/d stage opinions?
« Reply #42 on: August 05, 2005, 03:39:05 PM »
before i could justify going 24bit it was higher priority to upgrade my playback. 

qft

this may be the most intelligent thing anyone's said on this site in months... 

actually, I think it's an interesting dilema.  as soon as I upgraded my playback (to the point where 16 bit vs. 24 bit is dramatic, IMO), I decided that I needed to get more 24 bit material to listen to (don't ask why I'm still running a D8).  

So, the question is, do you upgrade your playback first so you cen better hear the deficiencies of 16 bit recordings?  or do you upgrade your recording rig, so at some point in the future, when your playback rig is up to snuff, you can enjoy your older recordings in full 24 bit glory?

BTW, the "correct" answer is to do both.  get yourself a nice playback system and start recording in 24 bit ;)


Quote
I did some critical listening last night, albeit with only the handful of 148>722 shows I have. I do think the a/d is solid, but a *little* vague sounding, and with the tiniest grain to it. Need to listen some more. To my ears, very comparable with the HHB a/d. Which is to say very good, but not quite up to uv22 standards, definitely a few major notches above the trashcan.

not sure exactly what you mean "up to uv22" standards.  it is my understanding that uv22 is a dithering scheme to go from 24 bits down to 16 bit resolution.  (and a dithering scheme that is generally regarded as very good).  but in this context, as a comparison for the 722 A/D, I'm not really sure I understand your comparison.  were the 148>722 sources that you were listening to still at 24 bit?  or had they been dropped down to 16 bit?  and if they were now 16 bit, what program was used for the processing.  Wavelab has the uv22 dither, right?  it is possible to use that dithering process in post, not just "live" when using Apogee products.

listened to 24 bit sources. and I can definitely hear the increased resolution. But I'm not sure I'm sold on the a/d conversion, I do understand there was no dithering going on. don't get me wrong...I think that the 722 a/d is very good...but up to standalone standards..mytek, mme? not sure.

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Re: 722 users....a/d stage opinions?
« Reply #43 on: August 05, 2005, 03:50:23 PM »
before i could justify going 24bit it was higher priority to upgrade my playback. 

qft

this may be the most intelligent thing anyone's said on this site in months... 

actually, I think it's an interesting dilema.  as soon as I upgraded my playback (to the point where 16 bit vs. 24 bit is dramatic, IMO), I decided that I needed to get more 24 bit material to listen to (don't ask why I'm still running a D8).  

So, the question is, do you upgrade your playback first so you cen better hear the deficiencies of 16 bit recordings?  or do you upgrade your recording rig, so at some point in the future, when your playback rig is up to snuff, you can enjoy your older recordings in full 24 bit glory?

BTW, the "correct" answer is to do both.  get yourself a nice playback system and start recording in 24 bit ;)


Quote
I did some critical listening last night, albeit with only the handful of 148>722 shows I have. I do think the a/d is solid, but a *little* vague sounding, and with the tiniest grain to it. Need to listen some more. To my ears, very comparable with the HHB a/d. Which is to say very good, but not quite up to uv22 standards, definitely a few major notches above the trashcan.

not sure exactly what you mean "up to uv22" standards.  it is my understanding that uv22 is a dithering scheme to go from 24 bits down to 16 bit resolution.  (and a dithering scheme that is generally regarded as very good).  but in this context, as a comparison for the 722 A/D, I'm not really sure I understand your comparison.  were the 148>722 sources that you were listening to still at 24 bit?  or had they been dropped down to 16 bit?  and if they were now 16 bit, what program was used for the processing.  Wavelab has the uv22 dither, right?  it is possible to use that dithering process in post, not just "live" when using Apogee products.

listened to 24 bit sources. and I can definitely hear the increased resolution. But I'm not sure I'm sold on the a/d conversion, I do understand there was no dithering going on. don't get me wrong...I think that the 722 a/d is very good...but up to standalone standards..mytek, mme? not sure.

jaysus, go with your gut. whatever it is.
thats easy and youll probably thank yourself for it. first instincts normally dont lie.

marc0789

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Re: 722 users....a/d stage opinions?
« Reply #44 on: August 05, 2005, 03:56:23 PM »
hey ray, just heard robbie fulks on the radio, great stuff. ;D

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Re: 722 users....a/d stage opinions?
« Reply #45 on: August 05, 2005, 03:56:58 PM »
Maybe a better idea to use the wife permission to upgrade. Who has my suggestions for a heady $2300 upgrade?  ;D

mytek 192> microtracker




b*itch!!!

 ;D ;D ;D ;D

Ray76

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Re: 722 users....a/d stage opinions?
« Reply #46 on: August 05, 2005, 03:58:26 PM »
hey ray, just heard robbie fulks on the radio, great stuff. ;D

whatd i tell you!

 ;D

you shoulda taped him back yonder.

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Re: 722 users....a/d stage opinions?
« Reply #47 on: August 05, 2005, 04:03:52 PM »
before i could justify going 24bit it was higher priority to upgrade my playback. 

I took the opposite view.  My feeling was that I could always upgrade playback gear later but anything I recorded at 16-bit was going to stay  16-bit.  There's no going back and recording a show. 

But if someone wasn't interesting in 24-bit recording, I'd still recommend the upgraded playback system because there is so much 24-bit material floating around now. 

I can't recall who asked, but upgrading your playback system does not mean that all your 16-bit sources will sound like crap.  Nick did some comparison and found outboard upsampling DACs to do wonderful things with redbook sources, so wonderful that the margin between 24-bit and 16-bit was small compared to the increased price of the 24-bit recording gear and authoring hassles.  Seach, it's in the playback forum somewhere.

Even though the 722 front end may not be the best, it's still a damn tolerable one-box solution considering that you can run with nothing more than mics and mic cables.  All these brutally good 16 bit stealth rigs are sweet, but they are not as small when combined and you have many points of failure when you wire up all those pieces.    The 722 is as plug and play simple as it gets.
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marc0789

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Re: 722 users....a/d stage opinions?
« Reply #48 on: August 05, 2005, 04:08:27 PM »
I guess to me, all this boils down to is: by dropping an outboard a/d and potentially a preamp too, am I losing any gain in resolution through settling for lesser quality preamplification and a/d conversion? If I could carry all the stuff, I'd run 4022>148>mme>722, but that ain't gonna happen.

Offline Lil Kim Jong-Il

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Re: 722 users....a/d stage opinions?
« Reply #49 on: August 05, 2005, 04:19:55 PM »
I guess to me, all this boils down to is: by dropping an outboard a/d and potentially a preamp too, am I losing any gain in resolution through settling for lesser quality preamplification and a/d conversion? If I could carry all the stuff, I'd run 4022>148>mme>722, but that ain't gonna happen.

I don't think you are losing resolution as much as you are getting the characteristic sound of the 722 front end.  If you like the sound of the 722 front end, then you will be happy.  Otherwise, you'll run gear in front like most of the people I see running the 722.

I like it well enough that I am very satisfied with it as a standalone box when I don't want to carry all the other crap (or can't because of low profile situation).  When I'm feeling like I want to carry more, I'll bring along the V3. 

I have not yet authored to DVD any of my V3>722 so I can't comment on how much difference there is or which I like.  Just going on what I heard of the 722 recordings I've pulled and head phone samples of the others, I'm inclined to think I'll prefer the V3>AES over V3>Line or pure 722 for those open taping situations.
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Re: 722 users....a/d stage opinions?
« Reply #50 on: August 05, 2005, 04:21:35 PM »
again, we're talking minor differences, I'm more impressed by the a/d on the 722 than on any deck Iv'e ever run. Have yet to hear any mic in 722 tapes.

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Re: 722 users....a/d stage opinions?
« Reply #51 on: August 05, 2005, 04:27:10 PM »
That mule show I taped in february was mic in - the torrent for that may still be up.  If not, you are welcome to B&P, I've got a dozen shows that are KM140 or KM143 mic in to the 722.
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Offline wboswell

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Re: 722 users....a/d stage opinions?
« Reply #52 on: August 05, 2005, 04:40:36 PM »
Sobel has a great point regarding upgrades.  I've always thought that I'd record with the best gear I can grab, then when that day comes when I no longer care to record, I sell the recording investment and dump it into playback.  However, now that I've put together a modest playback system, I have to admit that I have way more fun listening at home than I do recording at most shows.  Its tough to beat having friends over and listening at your own convenience and truly appreciating a fine recording.  Also, its tough to put a lot of stock in an opinion on rec. gear when you can't play it back on something that makes the nuances very apparent.  A nice set of cans coupled with a nice headphone amp does the trick, but for me, its not nearly as fun as enjoying it with friends, buts that just my opinioin.

So Marc, my point is that the Dino Jr. show sounds great considering the room issues.  I really like the sound of your rig and its obvious that you do to...  you've had that rig for how long now???  In the 4 years I've known your persona, you've never been settled on something this long, so I don't see you needing to change just for the sake of changing.

No offense, Ray, but I hear a little of the pot calling the kettle black when you tell him to go with his instincts..  you have asked for opinions on what seems like every purchase and then some.

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Re: 722 users....a/d stage opinions?
« Reply #53 on: August 05, 2005, 04:54:23 PM »
4022's for 4 years, m148 for two, modsbm1 for a year, only because of the back stuff, killed me to give up the mme and hhb. So as far as gear changing goes, I'm mostly talk.  :P I really do like the sound of my stuff, so might leave things alone, other than long over due playback upgrade.

Offline scb

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Re: 722 users....a/d stage opinions?
« Reply #54 on: August 05, 2005, 04:54:46 PM »
again, we're talking minor differences, I'm more impressed by the a/d on the 722 than on any deck Iv'e ever run. Have yet to hear any mic in 722 tapes.

http://bt.etree.org/details.php?id=15855

but i forgot, you can't download :)

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Re: 722 users....a/d stage opinions?
« Reply #55 on: August 05, 2005, 04:56:41 PM »
damn, bet that knopfler was great!

just remembered....davis laid a couple of 4022>744 discs on me, have yet to really listen...thanks Scott.

Offline scb

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Re: 722 users....a/d stage opinions?
« Reply #56 on: August 05, 2005, 06:14:20 PM »
knopfler can flat out play the guitar.  jesus...

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Re: 722 users....a/d stage opinions?
« Reply #57 on: August 05, 2005, 06:19:15 PM »
marc - your tapes are great, really, really nice... I definitely look forward to hearing one of your recordings, and there's only a handful of other tapers who fall into that category

if you like the rig the playback is the way to go.... I'm with Boswell.

also I think you can stretch your dollar futher in playback gear 8)

Scott's knopfler tape is really nice, I listen to that one quite regularly... scott would also be in that handful of tapers :)
I’ve had a few weird experiences and a few close brushes with total weirdness of one sort or another, but nothing that’s really freaked me out or made me feel too awful about it. - Jerry Garcia

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Re: 722 users....a/d stage opinions?
« Reply #58 on: August 06, 2005, 07:32:34 AM »
dontcha worry about a new set of speakers...you'll get more mileage from a cheap pair of sneakers..
- B. Joel.

home stereo upgrade for $2300?
come talk to me about some Von Schweikerts.
:)

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Re: 722 users....a/d stage opinions?
« Reply #59 on: August 07, 2005, 09:53:10 AM »
marc - your tapes are great, really, really nice... I definitely look forward to hearing one of your recordings, and there's only a handful of other tapers who fall into that category

if you like the rig the playback is the way to go.... I'm with Boswell.

also I think you can stretch your dollar futher in playback gear 8)

Scott's knopfler tape is really nice, I listen to that one quite regularly... scott would also be in that handful of tapers :)

thanks for the fluff tim. ;D wife gave me a look when I brought up the upgrade, she knows that means > volume. 8)

Offline wboswell

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Re: 722 users....a/d stage opinions?
« Reply #60 on: August 07, 2005, 10:02:20 AM »
marc - your tapes are great, really, really nice... I definitely look forward to hearing one of your recordings, and there's only a handful of other tapers who fall into that category

if you like the rig the playback is the way to go.... I'm with Boswell.

also I think you can stretch your dollar futher in playback gear 8)

Scott's knopfler tape is really nice, I listen to that one quite regularly... scott would also be in that handful of tapers :)

thanks for the fluff tim. ;D wife gave me a look when I brought up the upgrade, she knows that means > volume. 8)

It meant the exact opposite for me.  I can listen at lower volumes and hear what I'm looking for as opposed to listening on something with less detail where I've got to turn it up to hear the detail...  YMMV, but that's one of the major plus's for me.  Doesn't mean that you still won't want to turn it up, but its not as necessary.

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Re: 722 users....a/d stage opinions?
« Reply #61 on: August 07, 2005, 11:20:04 AM »
marc - your tapes are great, really, really nice... I definitely look forward to hearing one of your recordings, and there's only a handful of other tapers who fall into that category

if you like the rig the playback is the way to go.... I'm with Boswell.

also I think you can stretch your dollar futher in playback gear 8)

Scott's knopfler tape is really nice, I listen to that one quite regularly... scott would also be in that handful of tapers :)

thanks for the fluff tim. ;D wife gave me a look when I brought up the upgrade, she knows that means > volume. 8)

It meant the exact opposite for me.  I can listen at lower volumes and hear what I'm looking for as opposed to listening on something with less detail where I've got to turn it up to hear the detail...  YMMV, but that's one of the major plus's for me.  Doesn't mean that you still won't want to turn it up, but its not as necessary.

makes sense. I do have to turn way up to hear detail now.

Offline ianstone

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Re: 722 users....a/d stage opinions?
« Reply #62 on: August 19, 2005, 12:58:12 AM »
i've enjoyed reading this thread.


i am going to a 722. i am sick of the big 12v batteries to power my ad2k+. Its great. i love it, but i'm sick of lugging it like a mule. I've ran the ho's > mp2 > ad2k for quite a while now, but i am ready to move on to yes - the more simple solution.
I may down the line grab a v2 to run in front, but IMHO the MP2 and the pre in the 722 are about equal. so for now i think the ho's>722 will be a great solution for me and make my life easier.
no patchers though - was nice when i ran the 2k @ 24bit i could still give dat patchers a feed. those days will be gone w/ the 722. But i am really stoked for it, and i will likely hold on to my ad2k+ for a bit...
 carry less shit, party harder. :)

ian
Microphones:
CCM4v (pair)
mk6 (pair) and mk41 (pair) with kc5's & cmc6's
mk21 (1) for those M/S situations

Preamps:
Sonosax SX-M2

Recorders:
Sound Devices 722
Edirol R-01

My Recordings on archive http://www.archive.org/search.php?query=%22ian%20stone%22

Offline nickgregory

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Re: 722 users....a/d stage opinions?
« Reply #63 on: August 19, 2005, 07:47:31 AM »
congrats Ian...+T for new gear!

as for the MP2 and 722 comparisons...I wouldnt say they are about equal...actually I would argue that the 722 pre is somewhere in between the MP2 and V2....heavy on the bottom en but alot more detail at the mids and highs than I got with my MP2...enjoy!

Offline dmonterisi

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Re: 722 users....a/d stage opinions?
« Reply #64 on: August 19, 2005, 08:41:47 AM »
Ian-  I wonder if there won't be a bigger market for the ad2k+ in some other pro audio forums such as gearslutz or whatever it's called?  it's such a quality piece of gear, but i think you'll be hard pressed to find someone in this community looking to drop that kind of cash just for the a>d.  maybe drop a retailer a line (such as frank @ cascade) and see if you might be able to work out a consignment deal with him.  i know he gets some traffic from people beyond just tapers.  just a thought, i think in this market it may be tough to move here.

Offline MattD

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Re: 722 users....a/d stage opinions?
« Reply #65 on: August 19, 2005, 09:18:39 AM »
I'll have a v3 vs. 722 A/D comparison up this weekend. Who's got my tracker? :)
Out of the game … for now?

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Re: 722 users....a/d stage opinions?
« Reply #66 on: August 19, 2005, 10:24:05 AM »
I'll have a v3 vs. 722 A/D comparison up this weekend. Who's got my tracker? :)

you need a place to put it up Matt??

you can use my DaD account if you want.

or I can do the trackerless thing for you.

Offline scb

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Re: 722 users....a/d stage opinions?
« Reply #67 on: August 19, 2005, 10:48:10 AM »
thanks tim!

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Re: 722 users....a/d stage opinions?
« Reply #68 on: August 19, 2005, 11:19:15 AM »
Ian-  I wonder if there won't be a bigger market for the ad2k+ in some other pro audio forums such as gearslutz or whatever it's called?  it's such a quality piece of gear, but i think you'll be hard pressed to find someone in this community looking to drop that kind of cash just for the a>d.  maybe drop a retailer a line (such as frank @ cascade) and see if you might be able to work out a consignment deal with him.  i know he gets some traffic from people beyond just tapers.  just a thought, i think in this market it may be tough to move here.

as much as i need the cash - i don't really want to sell it. so any excuse to keep it in my hands is ok by me :) :) :)


i should be able to do some nice comps. I have access to another pair of MBHO's here in town - and will likely do some comps for some shows around town

mbho603a/ka200n>mp2>ad2k+>fujitsu @ 24bit
vs
mbho603a/ka200n>722

Microphones:
CCM4v (pair)
mk6 (pair) and mk41 (pair) with kc5's & cmc6's
mk21 (1) for those M/S situations

Preamps:
Sonosax SX-M2

Recorders:
Sound Devices 722
Edirol R-01

My Recordings on archive http://www.archive.org/search.php?query=%22ian%20stone%22

Offline dmonterisi

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Re: 722 users....a/d stage opinions?
« Reply #69 on: August 19, 2005, 11:26:07 AM »
Ian-  I wonder if there won't be a bigger market for the ad2k+ in some other pro audio forums such as gearslutz or whatever it's called?  it's such a quality piece of gear, but i think you'll be hard pressed to find someone in this community looking to drop that kind of cash just for the a>d.  maybe drop a retailer a line (such as frank @ cascade) and see if you might be able to work out a consignment deal with him.  i know he gets some traffic from people beyond just tapers.  just a thought, i think in this market it may be tough to move here.

as much as i need the cash - i don't really want to sell it. so any excuse to keep it in my hands is ok by me :) :) :)


i should be able to do some nice comps. I have access to another pair of MBHO's here in town - and will likely do some comps for some shows around town

mbho603a/ka200n>mp2>ad2k+>fujitsu @ 24bit
vs
mbho603a/ka200n>722



hey more power to ya if you can swing it.  while i'm spending your money, why not just get a 744t so you can do the comps in one box?? :P

Offline Zee

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Re: 722 users....a/d stage opinions?
« Reply #70 on: August 19, 2005, 11:47:49 AM »
Ill buy that AD2K+ when your ready IAN....
4022>v2>722
Please dither and resample as you see fit!

Offline MattD

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Re: 722 users....a/d stage opinions?
« Reply #71 on: August 19, 2005, 12:04:54 PM »
mbho603a/ka200n>mp2>ad2k+>fujitsu @ 24bit
vs
mbho603a/ka200n>722

I'd say to make a more valid comparison, use one set of mics and do:

mbho603a/ka200n > 722 > analog out > ad2k + fujitsu
vs.
mbho603a/ka200n > 722
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Offline ianstone

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Re: 722 users....a/d stage opinions?
« Reply #72 on: August 19, 2005, 01:34:42 PM »
mbho603a/ka200n>mp2>ad2k+>fujitsu @ 24bit
vs
mbho603a/ka200n>722

I'd say to make a more valid comparison, use one set of mics and do:

mbho603a/ka200n > 722 > analog out > ad2k + fujitsu
vs.
mbho603a/ka200n > 722

will do....

Microphones:
CCM4v (pair)
mk6 (pair) and mk41 (pair) with kc5's & cmc6's
mk21 (1) for those M/S situations

Preamps:
Sonosax SX-M2

Recorders:
Sound Devices 722
Edirol R-01

My Recordings on archive http://www.archive.org/search.php?query=%22ian%20stone%22

Offline Zee

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Re: 722 users....a/d stage opinions?
« Reply #73 on: August 19, 2005, 08:01:15 PM »
mbho603a/ka200n>mp2>ad2k+>fujitsu @ 24bit
vs
mbho603a/ka200n>722

I'd say to make a more valid comparison, use one set of mics and do:

mbho603a/ka200n > 722 > analog out > ad2k + fujitsu
vs.
mbho603a/ka200n > 722

 Yeah but even though your going analog out of the 722 the signal still passes through the digital gain stage of the 722.


I’m pretty sure this is how it work ;-) ..
4022>v2>722
Please dither and resample as you see fit!

Offline ianstone

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Re: 722 users....a/d stage opinions?
« Reply #74 on: August 19, 2005, 08:07:06 PM »
mbho603a/ka200n>mp2>ad2k+>fujitsu @ 24bit
vs
mbho603a/ka200n>722

I'd say to make a more valid comparison, use one set of mics and do:

mbho603a/ka200n > 722 > analog out > ad2k + fujitsu
vs.
mbho603a/ka200n > 722

 Yeah but even though your going analog out of the 722 the signal still passes through the digital gain stage of the 722.


I’m pretty sure this is how it work ;-) ..

is that right?
hm, so it MAY be better to run 2 sets of MBHO's on the same stand

1 set >>722
and the other >>mp2>>ad2k+>computer

i know two other tapers with MBHO's here in LA.

ian
Microphones:
CCM4v (pair)
mk6 (pair) and mk41 (pair) with kc5's & cmc6's
mk21 (1) for those M/S situations

Preamps:
Sonosax SX-M2

Recorders:
Sound Devices 722
Edirol R-01

My Recordings on archive http://www.archive.org/search.php?query=%22ian%20stone%22

Offline MattD

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Re: 722 users....a/d stage opinions?
« Reply #75 on: August 19, 2005, 08:59:14 PM »
Yeah but even though your going analog out of the 722 the signal still passes through the digital gain stage of the 722.
I’m pretty sure this is how it work ;-) ..

The analog outs are post DAC and not just routed there from the analog ins?
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Offline MattD

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Re: 722 users....a/d stage opinions?
« Reply #76 on: August 20, 2005, 12:09:40 AM »
V3/722 ADC comparison:
http://bt.etree.org/details.php?id=17440

I'll post a new thread about this with a poll.
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Offline Zee

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Re: 722 users....a/d stage opinions?
« Reply #77 on: August 20, 2005, 01:23:46 PM »
Yeah but even though your going analog out of the 722 the signal still passes through the digital gain stage of the 722.
I’m pretty sure this is how it work ;-) ..

The analog outs are post DAC and not just routed there from the analog ins?

Yes sir.
4022>v2>722
Please dither and resample as you see fit!

Offline Brian

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Re: 722 users....a/d stage opinions?
« Reply #78 on: August 20, 2005, 01:25:50 PM »
the analog outs on the v3 are post DAC?  that's seems odd.

Offline scb

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Re: 722 users....a/d stage opinions?
« Reply #79 on: August 20, 2005, 02:10:37 PM »
can't be on the v3.  you can turn the adc off and it'll function just as a preamp, so the analog outs must be pre adc

Offline Brian Skalinder

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Re: 722 users....a/d stage opinions?
« Reply #80 on: August 20, 2005, 02:24:20 PM »
the analog outs on the v3 are post DAC? that's seems odd.

Pretty sure the V3 analog outs are pass-through and do not go through the ADC/DAC.  But I think he was talking about the 722:

Yeah but even though your going analog out of the 722 the signal still passes through the digital gain stage of the 722.

I didn't find anything in the 722 manual to indicate this is the case.  But...that doesn't mean you're not correct.  The manual does indicate, however, that line-level analog inputs may be controlled via the same analog knobs as the mic-level signal, but alternatively may be adjusted via the menu.  In the latter case, I believe it's simply digital control of an analog gain stage, i.e. the mechanism for control is digital (the menu) but the gain is applied in the analog domain.  Since I don't own one, though...I'll defer to you early adopters and wait for a more definitive response.
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Offline Lil Kim Jong-Il

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Re: 722 users....a/d stage opinions?
« Reply #81 on: August 20, 2005, 02:48:59 PM »
There is no DAC in the V3.
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Offline Brian

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Re: 722 users....a/d stage opinions?
« Reply #82 on: August 20, 2005, 03:10:43 PM »
Quote
There is no DAC in the V3.
that's what i thought. 

Quote from: 722 manual
When inputs are selected as the source for the outputs,the state of recording or playback activity has no effect on the output signal. This allows uninterrupted audio at the outputs.

this sort of leads me to believe that this statement:
Quote from: Zee
]Yeah but even though your going analog out of the 722 the signal still passes through the digital gain stage of the 722
is not necessarily accuate, but i'm not positive.  Has it been mentioned on the support board by an SD Engineer?

Offline Zee

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Re: 722 users....a/d stage opinions?
« Reply #83 on: August 20, 2005, 03:20:15 PM »
Quote
There is no DAC in the V3.
that's what i thought. 

Quote from: 722 manual
When inputs are selected as the source for the outputs,the state of recording or playback activity has no effect on the output signal. This allows uninterrupted audio at the outputs.

this sort of leads me to believe that this statement:
Quote from: Zee
]Yeah but even though your going analog out of the 722 the signal still passes through the digital gain stage of the 722
is not necessarily accuate, but i'm not positive.  Has it been mentioned on the support board by an SD Engineer?


Justin at SD confirmed this during a phone call.
4022>v2>722
Please dither and resample as you see fit!

Offline Brian

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Re: 722 users....a/d stage opinions?
« Reply #84 on: August 20, 2005, 03:20:49 PM »
right on.  thanks!

Offline Brian Skalinder

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Re: 722 users....a/d stage opinions?
« Reply #85 on: August 21, 2005, 03:11:32 AM »
Quote from: Zee
Yeah but even though your going analog out of the 722 the signal still passes through the digital gain stage of the 722

Justin at SD confirmed this during a phone call.

Very interesting!  So the 722 does NOT offer analog-pass through from the mic/line inputs to the analog outputs?  I'm a bit stunned, frankly.  Given the AD2K and its lack of (I think)  analog passthrough, I'm still not sure there's any better way to run the comp, than as already noted (without the MP2), i.e. I still think it's a better comp to keep the MP2 out of the mix.  Looks like comparing the AD2K v. 722 ADCs just isn't easy, after all!  Though the V3 / 722 comp is much easier given the V3s analog pasthrough.  Thanks for the info, Zee - very interesting indeed.
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Offline ianstone

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Re: 722 users....a/d stage opinions?
« Reply #86 on: August 21, 2005, 11:05:58 AM »
Quote from: Zee
Yeah but even though your going analog out of the 722 the signal still passes through the digital gain stage of the 722

Justin at SD confirmed this during a phone call.

Very interesting!  So the 722 does NOT offer analog-pass through from the mic/line inputs to the analog outputs?  I'm a bit stunned, frankly.  Given the AD2K and its lack of (I think)  analog passthrough, I'm still not sure there's any better way to run the comp, than as already noted (without the MP2), i.e. I still think it's a better comp to keep the MP2 out of the mix.  Looks like comparing the AD2K v. 722 ADCs just isn't easy, after all!  Though the V3 / 722 comp is much easier given the V3s analog pasthrough.  Thanks for the info, Zee - very interesting indeed.

brian you are correct- there is no analog passthru on the 2k.
I am probably going to run various comps -
not only the mbho>722 vs mbho>722>2k>vxpocket  at 24 bit
and also mbho>mp2>2k>vx

i can run this all at the same time i just need a 2nd computer/vxpocket hehe... my computer only has 1 pcm slot.

anyone gonna be out for sts9 here in socal in a few weeks? i'm thinking i'll do the comps there...

ian
Microphones:
CCM4v (pair)
mk6 (pair) and mk41 (pair) with kc5's & cmc6's
mk21 (1) for those M/S situations

Preamps:
Sonosax SX-M2

Recorders:
Sound Devices 722
Edirol R-01

My Recordings on archive http://www.archive.org/search.php?query=%22ian%20stone%22

marc0789

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Re: 722 users....a/d stage opinions?
« Reply #87 on: August 22, 2005, 09:26:38 AM »
so lemme get this straight....no analog out in the 722, that has not already passed through the dac stage. no spdif out at 16 bits. right?

Offline Lil Kim Jong-Il

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Re: 722 users....a/d stage opinions?
« Reply #88 on: August 22, 2005, 11:41:07 AM »
no spdif out at 16 bits. right?

Not exactly.  The SPDIF outputs whatever bit rate/depth is being captured or from the file.  It's just that the 722 will not produce a resampled/dithered output at the SPDIF port.  If you record at 16-bit, the SPDIF out will be 16-bit.
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Offline ianstone

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Re: 722 users....a/d stage opinions?
« Reply #89 on: August 22, 2005, 01:07:18 PM »
no spdif out at 16 bits. right?

Not exactly.  The SPDIF outputs whatever bit rate/depth is being captured or from the file.  It's just that the 722 will not produce a resampled/dithered output at the SPDIF port.  If you record at 16-bit, the SPDIF out will be 16-bit.

record at 16 bit? ???

pfffffffffffffttt
Microphones:
CCM4v (pair)
mk6 (pair) and mk41 (pair) with kc5's & cmc6's
mk21 (1) for those M/S situations

Preamps:
Sonosax SX-M2

Recorders:
Sound Devices 722
Edirol R-01

My Recordings on archive http://www.archive.org/search.php?query=%22ian%20stone%22

marc0789

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Re: 722 users....a/d stage opinions?
« Reply #90 on: August 22, 2005, 02:29:54 PM »
for $2400 it better provide 16 bit dithered/resampled output for backup, provide 1 bit analog output that isn't run through a most likely cheap d-a, and give me daily hummers too. Ok, I can live without the hummers but the rest is a must. :P

Offline Brian

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Re: 722 users....a/d stage opinions?
« Reply #91 on: August 22, 2005, 08:03:33 PM »
cheap DA?  i'd like to think it's the same chipset as the AD and i think it's a fine converter.  somebody with a jb3 patched out the 1/8" out of my 722 and said it came out great for them.  besides if it is supposed to be a 16bit *backup* i don't see the problem with the way the 722 is designed for this purpose. the difference in sonic characteristics(especially for the 1/8" out) has got to be minimal(of course i am assuming, but it's not a blind one IMO )

now a dithered output for a digital patch/backup would definitely be nice, but for now....it's not a problem for me. But, of course, that's just me :)

Offline dmonterisi

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Re: 722 users....a/d stage opinions?
« Reply #92 on: August 22, 2005, 08:09:12 PM »
really not having a dithered output is a big deal?  kinda bizarre to me that anyone cares about that so much.  yeah, i guess it would be nice, but that's a pretty substantial amount of processing to be done on the fly isn't it?  recording the 24bit stream and at the same time dithering on the fly and outputting the 16 bit signal.  to my knowledge, the ad2k+ was the only device that i ever heard of (in the portable world) that outputted 16 and 24 bit simultaneously.  maybe like the cantar or deva does it, but i have no idea, but you're talking a different ballpark.  but i really couldn't see that being such a big deal as to not get the unit otherwise.  as for patchers...if these become the standard, patchers are just gonna have to buck up and buy up all the mod sbm1's out there  ;)

Offline Brian

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Re: 722 users....a/d stage opinions?
« Reply #93 on: August 22, 2005, 08:20:44 PM »
yeah...well said damon. i wasn't even thinking of the processing power necessary for recording 24bits and outputting 16.  it's probably over the top for this device,but maybe not?  i don't think it is a priority for SD. 

does the 148 only have xlr's out or does it have the rca's as well.  or is that only the 248?  if it has the spare rca out you could just patch your backup from there. 

I know a lot of other pre's have an aux output, like the v2 for example.  If i ever wanted to run a backup and was actually questionable of the 722's analog output i can just patch a deck/jb3 from there.

Offline Tim

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Re: 722 users....a/d stage opinions?
« Reply #94 on: August 22, 2005, 08:30:38 PM »
148 is xlr only
I’ve had a few weird experiences and a few close brushes with total weirdness of one sort or another, but nothing that’s really freaked me out or made me feel too awful about it. - Jerry Garcia

Offline dmonterisi

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Re: 722 users....a/d stage opinions?
« Reply #95 on: August 22, 2005, 08:31:35 PM »
148 is xlr's only.  can always build or buy split xlr's to run 2 analog signals out of a pre if need be.  somebody would be able to build you a xlr to xlr and 1/8" cable, i'm sure.  that way you could run the 1/8 into your d8 or MD as a backup and the xlr's into your double deuce

Offline Brian

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Re: 722 users....a/d stage opinions?
« Reply #96 on: August 22, 2005, 08:33:57 PM »
"double deuce" ...... i like that

"7 DEUCE DEUCE BITCHES!"

"The 7 DOUBLE DEUCE BITCHES!"

both roll very well off of the toungue :P

Offline Tim

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Re: 722 users....a/d stage opinions?
« Reply #97 on: August 22, 2005, 08:34:21 PM »
double douche :P
I’ve had a few weird experiences and a few close brushes with total weirdness of one sort or another, but nothing that’s really freaked me out or made me feel too awful about it. - Jerry Garcia

Offline dmonterisi

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Re: 722 users....a/d stage opinions?
« Reply #98 on: August 22, 2005, 08:36:19 PM »

both roll very well off of the toungue :P

that's really what taping is all about isn't it?

double douche :P

c'mon, you're better than that...are you looking to be called Tim McObvious around here?

Offline Brian

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Re: 722 users....a/d stage opinions?
« Reply #99 on: August 22, 2005, 08:38:49 PM »
:D

yeah i know....pretty dork-stlye.  you should have seen me last night when i was listen back to Steve and I's Blues Traveler recording. that 4021>psp2 combo is pretty sick. Kind of hard to believe not a lot of other tapers run that(or so it seems)  It probably fattens up the 4022s a little bit whereas the V2 would be pretty transparent.

McObvious?  is that a racial slur? :P
« Last Edit: August 22, 2005, 09:11:04 PM by Brian Sax »

Offline Tim

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Re: 722 users....a/d stage opinions?
« Reply #100 on: August 22, 2005, 09:03:33 PM »
I'm in an august slump :P
I’ve had a few weird experiences and a few close brushes with total weirdness of one sort or another, but nothing that’s really freaked me out or made me feel too awful about it. - Jerry Garcia

Offline dmonterisi

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Re: 722 users....a/d stage opinions?
« Reply #101 on: August 22, 2005, 09:07:52 PM »
I'm in an august slump :P

just die your hair a painfully unnatural color and start fluffing the yankees and you'll have completely morphed into everyone's favorite baseball non analyst.

Offline Tim

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Re: 722 users....a/d stage opinions?
« Reply #102 on: August 22, 2005, 09:20:47 PM »
:lol:
I’ve had a few weird experiences and a few close brushes with total weirdness of one sort or another, but nothing that’s really freaked me out or made me feel too awful about it. - Jerry Garcia

Offline MattD

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Re: 722 users....a/d stage opinions?
« Reply #103 on: August 22, 2005, 10:44:54 PM »
Damon, didn't you run the PSP2 at one point? I think you said something about not liking it because it was French. Of course, France replied and quickly surrendered (best troll ever).
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Offline dmonterisi

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Re: 722 users....a/d stage opinions?
« Reply #104 on: August 22, 2005, 11:26:10 PM »
i had a psp2 for about 1-2 weeks.  i took it and a modsbm1 in partial trade for my u89's when i switched to the 4022's.  i never actually ran it, though i pretended like i was going to.  then i realized i'd rather have the cash.

 

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