Topic: built in preamps

[Fried Chicken Boy]

^  Good choice, great deck.  To expound on what acidjack said about most of us recording loud rock bands, the Oade mod might not be necessary.  You'll have to decide whether or not it's worth the extra money for the types of recordings that you do.  With 100+ dB coming out of speaker stacks, is the additional detail and clarity that the mod purports going to be noticeable?  I honestly don't know. 

[acidjack]

^  Good choice, great deck.  To expound on what acidjack said about most of us recording loud rock bands, the Oade mod might not be necessary.  You'll have to decide whether or not it's worth the extra money for the types of recordings that you do.  With 100+ dB coming out of speaker stacks, is the additional detail and clarity that the mod purports going to be noticeable?  I honestly don't know.

You and I have compared an Oade R-44 vs. the non-modded (from regular use, not in a side by side comp) -- you tell me, but I'd be hard pressed to say there's a ton of difference. Oade's mods supposedly make the decks a bit quieter (and I also do think the Zoom preamps are noticeably quieter) but it's really not something you notice at all unless you're recording something quiet, which a PA system is not...

[Fried Chicken Boy]

You and I have compared an Oade R-44 vs. the non-modded (from regular use, not in a side by side comp) -- you tell me, but I'd be hard pressed to say there's a ton of difference. Oade's mods supposedly make the decks a bit quieter (and I also do think the Zoom preamps are noticeably quieter) but it's really not something you notice at all unless you're recording something quiet, which a PA system is not...

I agree.  Comparing our recordings, which for a long time comprised your OCM R-44 and my unmodded R-44, with loud rock concerts I can't really hear a difference except for the different mics we use.  In fact, there were several times when we synced the two decks via your USBPre2, ran 8 tracks, and I still really couldn't hear much difference at the preamp level.  As stated before, it comes down to how quiet your source material is and, I suppose, how critical your hearing and playback equipment is. 

[down2earthlandscaper]

I'm going to save for the PMD661.  Thank you 

FWIW, I have an un-modded PMD661 and I love the sound of the stock preamps. I've been pairing this deck up with Nak 700's lately, and I'm really pleased with how nicely they sound together.
I know a lot of people just use the PMD661 as a bit bucket, with some other preamp between the mics and it. (Another excellent use of this deck) I haven't even tried that yet because I'm just so happy with how the Marantz preamps sound. I'd say my only real gripe with the deck is that the headphone amp is pretty poor(on my unit anyway). I crank it up all the way and still have trouble hearing what I'm recording.

[stevetoney]

You and I have compared an Oade R-44 vs. the non-modded (from regular use, not in a side by side comp) -- you tell me, but I'd be hard pressed to say there's a ton of difference. Oade's mods supposedly make the decks a bit quieter (and I also do think the Zoom preamps are noticeably quieter) but it's really not something you notice at all unless you're recording something quiet, which a PA system is not...

I agree.  Comparing our recordings, which for a long time comprised your OCM R-44 and my unmodded R-44, with loud rock concerts I can't really hear a difference except for the different mics we use.  In fact, there were several times when we synced the two decks via your USBPre2, ran 8 tracks, and I still really couldn't hear much difference at the preamp level.  As stated before, it comes down to how quiet your source material is and, I suppose, how critical your hearing and playback equipment is.

I can't speak to the quality difference between the modded units, but the point made above about playback equipment is IMHO a very important point.  If you're an audiophile, incremental improvements in sound quality will probably hold increased value to you because you'll hear them on the back end and (probably) perceive that you've gotten something back for the extra money spent.  If you're not an audiophile, then there's a greater chance you'll be happy with a stock unit.  I didn't fully realize this (to my tastes anyway) until I started upping my investment in the back end. 

I also feel that my sound tastes have matured greatly since I've tried out so much gear over the years, so I know what I like so much more now than I did when I got my first higher end recording rig.  How picky someone is about their sound, I think, can be a pretty big factor in what people tend to recommend.

As always, you have to take the advice you get here sorta holistically to help with your decision making, but you're the only one that can determine what ends up being a value adder for you.  And the only way you can do that is listen, listen, listen.

[Life In Rewind]

I thought the 661 was unuseable for loud recording without the Oade mod...(I seem to recall this from Oade himself) - perhaps Im thinking of a different model.

Although - they are on the "mkII" model - as I recall nothing really new in the mkII version...(Original 661 came out in 2009 I think)

[BonoBeats]

This EBay store sells the Tascam DR-680mkii for just over $450:

https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/182055263798

Nice, clean preamps and eight channels for less than an Oade mod two channel PMD661. It also doesn't suffer from some of the issues that have plagued the DR-70d.

[MakersMarc]

^  Good choice, great deck.  To expound on what acidjack said about most of us recording loud rock bands, the Oade mod might not be necessary.  You'll have to decide whether or not it's worth the extra money for the types of recordings that you do.  With 100+ dB coming out of speaker stacks, is the additional detail and clarity that the mod purports going to be noticeable?  I honestly don't know.

It's a huge payoff for not much money, and Doug stands by his work. And he's Doug freaking Oade. IMO you get about 80% of m148 goodness in a small all in one. Post an ISO in the yard sale if you don't want new.

[dactylus]

I'll echo the other recommendations for the Oade modded 661's.  I went with the Oade Concert Mod, twice, and I love the sound of the recordings that I've made with this compact deck!

[rocksuitcase]

^  Good choice, great deck.  To expound on what acidjack said about most of us recording loud rock bands, the Oade mod might not be necessary.  You'll have to decide whether or not it's worth the extra money for the types of recordings that you do.  With 100+ dB coming out of speaker stacks, is the additional detail and clarity that the mod purports going to be noticeable?  I honestly don't know.

It's a huge payoff for not much money, and Doug stands by his work. And he's Doug freaking Oade. IMO you get about 80% of m148 goodness in a small all in one. Post an ISO in the yard sale if you don't want new.

I've spoken with Doug about what exactly he does, and how it affects the outcome. Mainly, the reduction in circuit noise by swapping out the op amps lowers the Pre-amp's noise floor. And if you're going to be doing classical or vocal recordings choose either the FET or super mod. For the extra $100 (each mod's cost) it is well worth it. FCB and Acidjack are also not "wrong"- if all you record is loud rock n roll from PA stacks, it might not ever be apparent to your ears on playback. TD is also correct in pointing out that the better your playback gear the more you will notice these differences.
http://www.oade.com/          has all four mods featured right on the main page.

[gratefulbrad]

I own a couple Oade Concert Mod Marantz decks, both the PMD660 and 661.  They have never given me a problem, ever. 

[mec111272]

I have and Oade Advanced Concert mod (ACM) PMD-660.  As others have said super solid, has never given me any trouble, and man is it quiet.  I have 2 Busman mod PMD-660's that have a very irritating ticking that I can't get rid of, and trust me I read all of the threads  and tired all the tricks..

My addition to the conversation:  Doug implied, and I have seen, that the mod to the Line-in is not as warm as the mod to the XLR inputs.   This has been helpful as I run a M148 in front of the line-in, running into the XLR's ends up being too much bass. 

All that being said the biggest point made here is on playback.  The biggest shortfall for most people that listen to our stuff is that they either stream it off archive, or download and listen on their laptops.  MOST LAPTOP HEADPHONE JACKS ARE ABSOLUTE SHIT.   Go spend $300 on sweet headphones and listen on that fucking jack and you have wasted your money.  A $20 USB audio adapter can do more for a lot of peoples listening experience than the guy recording it spending $2K on a new piece of kit.

I apologize for the slight veer off-topic.

[yates7592]

I happen to believe that quality preamp, whether internal or external, is absolutely paramount for top pulls; even in a loud PA environment. I'm mostly taping quite loud/very loud bands from near stage. I get some PA influence from hanging stacks above or speakers to each side, but a lot of what I'm getting is stage acoustics from drums, amps, probably monitors. These are not rock and roll garage bands but experimental, electronic, ambient. That kind of stuff. There's a huge dynamic range there in a 3D soundstage and top pre's really help to capture the microdynamics of the moment and that "being there" feeling. And yes, playback gear is equally important.