Become a Site Supporter and Never see Ads again!

Poll

Which sounds better to you?

Sample A
Sample B
They both sound the same to me

Author Topic: COMP: MixPre-6 vs. Zoom F8  (Read 22518 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline heathen

  • Trade Count: (23)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 3528
COMP: MixPre-6 vs. Zoom F8
« on: June 03, 2018, 04:45:38 PM »
Todd R has done the heavy lifting in putting this comp together, and I'm doing the much easier task of posting it here.  When Phil Lesh played Red Rocks last month he and I set up our respective sets of Line Audio CM3s for this comp.  They were both NOS, on the same stand, and one pair was only a couple inches higher than the other pair.  We both used BAS windscreens.  He ran his pair into his MixPre-6, and I ran mine into my Zoom F8.  There's been no post-processing done to the samples other than Todd normalizing them to the same average RMS level.

Here is a link to download the samples: https://drive.google.com/uc?export=download&id=1w3Ops4Doj2gvV546h4YB4ypoFk3gnz1M

For anyone who is able I would highly recommend using the ABX Comparator for foobar2000: https://www.foobar2000.org/components/view/foo_abx

(You may note that I've already uploaded my CM3 recording of this show.  That won't be helpful if you get the urge to "cheat" on this comp, though, because I EQ'd my recording before uploading.  These samples have no EQ applied.)

Update: If you're looking for the answer, look no further than here: https://imgur.com/rAak6gg
« Last Edit: June 18, 2018, 09:54:52 PM by heathen »
Mics: AT4050ST | AT4031 | AT853 (C/SC) | Line Audio CM3 | Sennheiser e614 | Sennheiser MKE2 | DPA 4061 Pre: CA9200 Decks: Zoom F8 | Roland R-05

Offline aaronji

  • Site Supporter
  • Trade Count: (9)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *
  • Posts: 3861
Re: COMP: MixPre-6 vs. Zoom F8
« Reply #1 on: June 03, 2018, 06:20:16 PM »
Thanks for this! I will try to listen to the clips as soon as possible. Just to clarify, the same vertical plane with one pair a little higher and the same horizontal plane?

Offline heathen

  • Trade Count: (23)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 3528
Re: COMP: MixPre-6 vs. Zoom F8
« Reply #2 on: June 03, 2018, 08:40:41 PM »
Thanks for this! I will try to listen to the clips as soon as possible. Just to clarify, the same vertical plane with one pair a little higher and the same horizontal plane?

Each mic was directly above the corresponding mic from the other pair.  Does that make sense?  I'm on my phone and I feel like I may be making things even more confusing...
Mics: AT4050ST | AT4031 | AT853 (C/SC) | Line Audio CM3 | Sennheiser e614 | Sennheiser MKE2 | DPA 4061 Pre: CA9200 Decks: Zoom F8 | Roland R-05

Offline adrianf74

  • Trade Count: (10)
  • Taperssection Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 659
  • Gender: Male
Re: COMP: MixPre-6 vs. Zoom F8
« Reply #3 on: June 03, 2018, 08:49:29 PM »
Thanks for this! I will try to listen to the clips as soon as possible. Just to clarify, the same vertical plane with one pair a little higher and the same horizontal plane?

Each mic was directly above the corresponding mic from the other pair.  Does that make sense?  I'm on my phone and I feel like I may be making things even more confusing...

Simply put: two pairs of mics running the same pattern inches above each other on the same stand.
Camera: DJI Osmo Action 4 | Mics: (under construction) Line Audio CM3 | Decks: (under construction) | Power: (under construction)

Offline Gordon

  • Trade Count: (22)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 11780
  • Gender: Male
    • my list
Re: COMP: MixPre-6 vs. Zoom F8
« Reply #4 on: June 04, 2018, 09:03:42 AM »
I picked "same" but they do sound slightly different.  A seems to have a little more bass.  as to which is which I don't really have a guess!

btw thanks for the heads up about ABX Comparator!
Microtech Gefell M20 or M21 > Nbob actives > Naiant PFA > Sound Devices MixPre-6 II @ 32/48

https://archive.org/details/fav-gordonlw

https://archive.org/details/teamdirtysouth

Offline spyder9

  • Trade Count: (82)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 13195
  • Gender: Male
  • "Are you Zman?"
    • My Archived shows
Re: COMP: MixPre-6 vs. Zoom F8
« Reply #5 on: June 04, 2018, 09:51:05 PM »
I can hear the difference.  That said, I preferred "B"

Offline rippleish20

  • Trade Count: (24)
  • Taperssection All-Star
  • ****
  • Posts: 1021
Re: COMP: MixPre-6 vs. Zoom F8
« Reply #6 on: June 04, 2018, 10:17:47 PM »
They sound basically the same to me. B has slightly fuller bass but I am suspecting thats the one that was normalized...

AKG C480B (ck61, ck63, ck8) /  Neumann KM100 (AK40, AK50) / AT853s  (cardiod, omni) / CA-14 (cardiod) / CA-11 (Omni) / Mixpre-10t / Mixpre-6 / Roland R-07 / Zoom F-3
paypal: rippleish20@gmail.com

Offline Todd R

  • Over/Under on next gear purchase: 2 months
  • Trade Count: (29)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 4901
  • Gender: Male
Re: COMP: MixPre-6 vs. Zoom F8
« Reply #7 on: June 05, 2018, 12:04:53 AM »
They sound basically the same to me. B has slightly fuller bass but I am suspecting thats the one that was normalized...

Both files were normalized, by the way.  Both had just about the same processing — trimming to the same passage, slight volume adjustment between left and right channels, normalization to the same average RMS level, fades added to beginning and end, and saving as flac files.
Mics: Microtech Gefell m20/m21 (nbob/pfa actives), Line Audio CM3, Church CA-11 cards
Preamp:  none <sniff>
Recorders:  Sound Devices MixPre-6, Sony PCM-M10, Zoom H4nPro

Offline rippleish20

  • Trade Count: (24)
  • Taperssection All-Star
  • ****
  • Posts: 1021
Re: COMP: MixPre-6 vs. Zoom F8
« Reply #8 on: June 05, 2018, 09:19:07 AM »
They sound basically the same to me. B has slightly fuller bass but I am suspecting thats the one that was normalized...

Both files were normalized, by the way.  Both had just about the same processing — trimming to the same passage, slight volume adjustment between left and right channels, normalization to the same average RMS level, fades added to beginning and end, and saving as flac files.

Oops. sorry, I misread that 

I totally appreciate the effort for comparison but:

 I would argue that for comparisons, it would be better for no alterations to be made, as these alter the sound and affect the comparison. I also wonder if microphones themselves don't vary a bit. A better compassion would be to take a setup and use one deck for the first set and another for the second perhaps.
AKG C480B (ck61, ck63, ck8) /  Neumann KM100 (AK40, AK50) / AT853s  (cardiod, omni) / CA-14 (cardiod) / CA-11 (Omni) / Mixpre-10t / Mixpre-6 / Roland R-07 / Zoom F-3
paypal: rippleish20@gmail.com

Offline heathen

  • Trade Count: (23)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 3528
Re: COMP: MixPre-6 vs. Zoom F8
« Reply #9 on: June 05, 2018, 09:33:16 AM »
I totally appreciate the effort for comparison but:

 I would argue that for comparisons, it would be better for no alterations to be made, as these alter the sound and affect the comparison. I also wonder if microphones themselves don't vary a bit. A better compassion would be to take a setup and use one deck for the first set and another for the second perhaps.

That would certainly be ideal, but with it very very difficult for us to set our levels identical, and the innate human preference for the louder of two samples, I think it's necessary to try to match the two at least in terms of "loudness."  My (totally uneducated) opinion is that any downsides of the processing are far outweighed by the benefit of having the samples at equal loudness.  All that being said, I certainly know less about these things than most on here, so take my opinion with a huge grain of salt!
Mics: AT4050ST | AT4031 | AT853 (C/SC) | Line Audio CM3 | Sennheiser e614 | Sennheiser MKE2 | DPA 4061 Pre: CA9200 Decks: Zoom F8 | Roland R-05

Offline djphrayz

  • Trade Count: (6)
  • Taperssection Regular
  • **
  • Posts: 159
  • Gender: Male
Re: COMP: MixPre-6 vs. Zoom F8
« Reply #10 on: June 05, 2018, 12:38:26 PM »
Thank you both for doing this!  The difference is subtle, that's for sure.
Mics: AT4031, DPA4061, DPA4099, AKG483, CA-14 cards and omnis
Recorders: MixPre10ii, Zoom F8, Sony PCM-M10
Pre: DPA MMA6000, CA Ugly 2

Offline heathen

  • Trade Count: (23)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 3528
Re: COMP: MixPre-6 vs. Zoom F8
« Reply #11 on: June 05, 2018, 12:49:17 PM »
I also wonder if microphones themselves don't vary a bit.

Looking back on this post, you raise a really good point here.  While I have no reason to doubt Line Audio's quality, even the best manufacturers can have variation in a specific microphone model, right?  I got my CM3s in February of this year...I know Todd has had his for longer than that but I don't know exactly when he got them.
Mics: AT4050ST | AT4031 | AT853 (C/SC) | Line Audio CM3 | Sennheiser e614 | Sennheiser MKE2 | DPA 4061 Pre: CA9200 Decks: Zoom F8 | Roland R-05

Offline Todd R

  • Over/Under on next gear purchase: 2 months
  • Trade Count: (29)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 4901
  • Gender: Male
Re: COMP: MixPre-6 vs. Zoom F8
« Reply #12 on: June 05, 2018, 02:25:14 PM »

I totally appreciate the effort for comparison but:

 I would argue that for comparisons, it would be better for no alterations to be made, as these alter the sound and affect the comparison.

Everyone argues for different things in comparisons, and everyone has been arguing and bagging on comparisons for 15+ years on ts.com.  Feel free to do your own comparisons, or at least to pay more attention to the postings on them and ignore them if they don't meet your standards.

Sound like I'm annoyed, I am.  There are lots of tradeoffs and choices, and different people come to different conclusions.  I've done far more comps than most here on ts.com and they take effort -- many times I've been soldering up breakout cables and borrowing equipment to get them done, then putting together files, uploading them, etc.  Always end up the same way on ts.com with someone shitting on them because they would do it different.
Mics: Microtech Gefell m20/m21 (nbob/pfa actives), Line Audio CM3, Church CA-11 cards
Preamp:  none <sniff>
Recorders:  Sound Devices MixPre-6, Sony PCM-M10, Zoom H4nPro

Offline unidentified

  • Trade Count: (10)
  • Taperssection Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 337
  • Gender: Male
Re: COMP: MixPre-6 vs. Zoom F8
« Reply #13 on: June 05, 2018, 02:55:27 PM »
I think the methodology used here, as explained, is as close to perfect as one can get.  Many thanks for your hard work. 

Offline heathen

  • Trade Count: (23)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 3528
Re: COMP: MixPre-6 vs. Zoom F8
« Reply #14 on: June 05, 2018, 03:06:58 PM »
I think the methodology used here, as explained, is as close to perfect as one can get.  Many thanks for your hard work.

Todd definitely deserves the credit here.  He even home-brewed a NOS mount at the last minute to make sure we were both using the same configuration!
Mics: AT4050ST | AT4031 | AT853 (C/SC) | Line Audio CM3 | Sennheiser e614 | Sennheiser MKE2 | DPA 4061 Pre: CA9200 Decks: Zoom F8 | Roland R-05

 

RSS | Mobile
Page created in 0.133 seconds with 47 queries.
© 2002-2024 Taperssection.com
Powered by SMF