Topic: Finalizing first setup: Mic stand for pair of AKG C 1000's?

[HelenKellerwilliams]

Hi everyone,

After lurking here for a few weeks and speaking with a family member who works as a professional in recording I've decided on the gear for my first rig for live concert recording. I hope to record both small shows (clubs under 500) and large ones (venues indoor/outdoor over 5,000). I basically now just need some pointers towards a good setup to hold all the pieces together!

I'm getting a pair of AKG C 1000's and using the Zoom H4 as a recorder. I'm looking for a sturdy but collapsible mic stand and bar for these microphones that can hopefully also hold the Zoom H4 (again, I am a noob, not sure where else it would go!)

Any advice is sincerely appreciated!

[goodcooker]

The mic stands that most folks around here use are actually light stands typically used for holding lights for photography purposes.

Search for the height and footprint that you want on sites like B and H Photo, Adorama, Amazon, Ebay....

I use a 9 foot, 3 section aluminum stand from Promaster that I picked up at my local pro photo shop for around $50. I like it because it has a fairly small footprint. Other popular brands are Manfrotto (spendy but best quality), Impact (similar to Manfrotto but cheaper), Avenger (cheap).

Attaching the Zoom to the stand is not something I would do but it's not unheard of. You need a clamp to clamp it on to your stand with the appropriate thread connector (prob 1/4 inch) like a Manfrotto Superclamp. Most people run the recorder in a bag of some sort (that also holds cables, clamps, accesories) from the base of the stand but to each their own! If you want to use it like that make sure you can get to the battery compartment while it's clamped on. I wouldn't do it that way because I like my recorder to be protected inside a padded, spill proof bag since I tape in a lot of clubs and festivals. I would be nervous someone would monkey with my recorder if it were out in the open and at eye level.

Here's a link to air cushioned, tripod, collapsible light stands at B and H Photo

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?atclk=Features_Air-Cushioned&ci=5799&N=4062040357+3804773645

Happy Taping and Welcome aboard! Leave your wallet at the door 

[chinariderstl]

Agreed with everything Roger said.

Here's the stand I use, just to give you an idea of what's out there.

# Manfrotto 368B Basic Black Light Stand - 11'
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/546528-REG/Manfrotto_368B_368B_Basic_Black_Light.html

I would also check out the Kickdown Section and the Live Music Archive (if you haven't already).  You will start to learn what "sound" you like and what gear was used to capture it.

You can't go wrong with a nice set of AKG's!

I would also check out the Yard Sale, to get an idea of the type equipment used and what the market looks like.  If you're like the rest of us, you'll start dropping a lot of coin before you realize it. 

[twatts (pants are so over-rated...)]

Where do you live???  I have a Stand you can have if you pay for the S&H...  Its a 3-section "bass" ("boss") air-cushioned stand.  It stands about 8' tall fully extended...  Its a cheap-o EBAY stand that I got years ago...

As for mounting your Zoom H4 to your stand, you can get a Hot Shoe for the Zoom and use a Hot Shoe Clamp to attach to the Stand...

Just PM me (or email twatts1000@gmail.com) if you want the Stand...

Terry

[OhioHead]

I am new to taping as well, I just bought a LumoPro stand & they make an awesome "Manfrotto" style rail clamp (as well)......my LumoPro was around $40 & it will go to 10 feet.  I purchased at a local camera supply store.

[HelenKellerwilliams]

Hey guys,

Thanks for all of the responses ! I didn't receive an email re: my post (should have double checked) and and have since made the order! I decided to go with these items:

Shure mic stand: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/113773-REG/Shure_S15A_S15A_Microphone_Stand.html

Stereo microphone bar: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/272480-REG/Sabra_Som_ST2_ST_2_Double_Microphone.html

I notice the mic stand I ordered is a different style than the primary recommendation in this thread. Its also unfortunately 2-3x as much. I'm hoping it will still work well for what I need it to do and I don't end up regretting my purchase. I am going to be trying these out at a music festival in Colorado this coming week, so it will get three days of hard use, but I will still be in warranty should I end up deciding to return it.

As far as mounting the Zoom H4… I can see why having it hidden away would be preferable. From what I've read, I will be able to mount it in the center of the stereo microphone bar which should theoretically (?) give me two more mics and better sound. Maybe that is the wrong way to think about it.

As far as a gear bag goes, I will have the carrying case for the tripod, and a dedicated backpack for other gear, and get padding/carrying cases as required based on what comes with the gear I've ordered. With the benefit of more time I would have loved to buy some used gear to save money, but having the benefit of 1. new gear 2. returnable gear is very reassuring as I take the plunge!

[goodcooker]

That Shure stand has been a solid performer for people over the years. It should serve you well.

The thing about using your deck for the internal mics when using externals as well....

Envision this scenario - you are recording an amplified rock band playing through a PA system outdoors at a music festival in CO - you are surrounded by chatty douchebags - you want to utilize that 15 foot Shure stand to get your mics as high as you can to get away from the drunk chatterboxes on all sides. How are you going to set and check your levels if your deck is on top of your stand in the air? Are you going to lower your stand every time you need to check your battery levels?

Getting good record levels was the most challenging part of learning to tape for me. You are making it more difficult on yourself if you fly your deck in the air or limiting yourself to possibly bad mic placement if you fly low to have access to the deck.

You can do whatever you like, of course, but I think you wont be all that impressed with the internal mics vs. a pair of external ones. Just run the external mics and get a feel for it over the course of the weekend. Try a few different mic configurations and find out what you like.  Keep notes. Run the internals for a few sets to get a feel for how they perform. Run them both at the same time so you can compare them side by side later.

If it's your first festival running a recorder remember to bring lots of battery power and memory (especially if you plan on running 4 channels).

[HelenKellerwilliams]

Thanks for the feedback. I think for the first shows I record I will probably stick to the two mics.

I'm going to look for an FAQ of some sort for a pre-show setup. I've been told setting "Automatic clipping" is a huge help on the Zoom but imagine there will be more steps.

Also, rain has popped up on the schedule for the first time in all the years I've been there. I'm imagining I'll get a clamp at either a guitar center type store or a hardware store and get an umbrella on there. Anything better I should attempt with the time I have? I can't order anything new by mail.

[dnsacks]

Thanks for the feedback. I think for the first shows I record I will probably stick to the two mics.

I'm going to look for an FAQ of some sort for a pre-show setup. I've been told setting "Automatic clipping" is a huge help on the Zoom but imagine there will be more steps.

Also, rain has popped up on the schedule for the first time in all the years I've been there. I'm imagining I'll get a clamp at either a guitar center type store or a hardware store and get an umbrella on there. Anything better I should attempt with the time I have? I can't order anything new by mail.

1) though I've never used a zoom h4, I'd recommend against using automatic clipping or other automatic level setting aids -- you're better off setting levels rather conservatively (peak at, say -6db) to give headroom and boost levels if necessary in post.  After getting levels set during initial song(s), also good to avoid tweaking levels up unless absolutely necessary.    Auto level setting can cause volume pumping or compression . . .  Remember too that the FOH engineer will likely be raising levels slightly throughout show, so being a bit conservative up front will minimize possibility of clipping late in show

2) umbrella -- I'd skip the clamp idea and instead find some duct tape -- unbrella's going to be pulling against clamp and, without pre-testing, I'd trust an "overengineered" duct tape solution better.  Remove the handle from a small umbrella and duct tape the umbrella's shaft to the top of your stand positioning it so that a) the umbrella can sit folded up over your Mics when not needed and b) can be raised without affecting/touching your Mics when needed (after lowering your stand, of course)  -- Also find a way to both secure your mic cables to the stand and leave a bit of slack in the mic cable between the mic and the stand -- otherwise the cable will transmit shocks back to the mic as noise.

3) wind -- especially here in Colorado, with rain comes wind -- umbrellas tend to serve as sails in the wind and even a stand without an umbrella can become pretty unstable in the wind.  Lowering a stand can help, taping a stand to a stronger support (SBD cage, etc.) can help too.  Finally, simply being around to hold the stand up when the wind comes can frequently be the only real way to keep it standing.  Do you have windscreens for your c1000s?  You'll definitely want to have a robust wind abatement system in place for outdoor taping

4) Plastic bags -- bring some big, heavy duty contractor bags with you (like are used for leaf/construction debris pickup) -- they're great for protecting gear from the rain and, if kept folded up/intact from the box before use are VERY effective at completely covering your MICS/stand/zoom/etc. during a deluge

5) thunder/lightning -- a 10' mic stand is a lightning rod -- pull it down to below head height if thunder comes near(ish) -- even with a plastic bag completely covering your rig and your rig at a whopping 4' height, you'll still pull a recording

Have fun! 

[yltfan]

I used to run c1000's as my primary mics. Now I use them occasionally as an onstage pair in sketchy situations (where they might get kicked around) because they are built like tanks, and can handle crazy SPL's.

As for mounting your zoom to the stand, I would suggest spending $2 at your local thrift store for a small camera bag with a strap that you could wrap around the stand at the right spot.

And stay away from the automatic gain settings, as others have said.

[HelenKellerwilliams]

Thanks! Interesting to hear about the umbrella and the garbage bag recommendation, will the mics really still work through those?

For wind, I have windscreens for both mics (and the Zoom H4 should I end up using it) and that's as far as I've gotten.

On the setup of the recorder, any particular section or pages I should look at to learn about properly setting levels at a show?

[dnsacks]

Thanks! Interesting to hear about the umbrella and the garbage bag recommendation, will the mics really still work through those?

For wind, I have windscreens for both mics (and the Zoom H4 should I end up using it) and that's as far as I've gotten.

On the setup of the recorder, any particular section or pages I should look at to learn about properly setting levels at a show?

I wouldn't through a garbage bag over Mics while recording unless absolutely necessary, but yes, you will still record sound with a lot less muffling than you'd think through a plastic bag.

Recorder setup -- Sorry, can't help you on that as I haven't used a zoom before --- generally speaking, you want to set your levels so they never go over zero and are peaking at over, say -10 db.

[if_then_else]

There are a few more options to protect your mics from rain while avoiding the typical pitter-patter sounds on your umbrella or the potential muffling caused by a plastic bag.

http://www.trewaudio.com/store/Remote-Audio-Rainman-Boom-Mic-Rain-Cover.html?/remoteaudio/rainman/
http://www.rycote.com/products/accessories-parts/duck-raincover/
http://www.dsttl.com/index.php/audio/windshields/soft-zep/6644/soft-zep-rain-hat-52cm-detail

If you'd like to go for some cheaper options use some polyester batting, "hogshair" or polyesther or PUR foam sheet.
The Rainman cover is basically a posh version of the polyester batting based approach, while the Reinhardt Rain Hat consists of 10-PPI / coarse PUR (with a waterproof membrane on the reverse side).

[fmaderjr]

I'm ......using the Zoom H4 as a recorder.

My condolences. Replacing the Zoom should be your first move when you decide to upgrade. It's incredibly unintuitive to use, noisier than the more recently produced recorders that most of us use (though maybe not a problem when recording loud stuff) and when you are recording loud stuff, if you have the sensitivity set to L (as you should) and the meters are going over 0 dB, if you need to reduce the gain to below 100 to keep the meters from hitting 0 dB your recording will be distorted anyway. In this case the only thing you can do to prevent distortion is to set the gain to 100 and move away from the source until the levels are staying under 0 dB.

A very badly designed recorder and the worst purchase I ever made when I started taping (I bought it before I knew of taperssection and had never read the comments here about it).

Don't get discouraged about taping if you have problems with the Zoom-get another recorder and try again.

[HelenKellerwilliams]

Thanks for all the responses. Colorado has been getting a lot more rain than usual so I've been checking the weather reports regularly and while we will be getting some the outlook is pretty good. I'll have both bags and an umbrella on hand and worst case scenario I'll just hold it. Those rain covers look sweet though so I will keep them in mind if I find myself planning with a little more time for adverse weather. But I imagine unless they're made of some special material they could be copied for much less using hardware store materials? Maybe that's why they're so expensive...

And about the Zoom... that sucks to hear. I've heard all positive reviews up until now but I will take your word for it, which is a bummer to hear. The plus side is that I did specify the 2015 model when ordering (over the 2009 model) and should I hate it, I should be able to sell it relatively easy.

Very excited for Tuesday when this all comes in and I'll get a chance to do a run through. I have a buddy who manages a bar and I'm working it out with him to set up there and do a test run, so I should get some pretty high noise levels mimicking a show environment.