Topic: Fig 8 small condenser mic

[refrain]

Hello,

Looking for a small condenser mic with Fig8 polar configuration. I know they are a bit of rare and usually expensive, I've been doing MS recording (about 10-12 years) with a pair of AKG blue-line's (CK91-CK94), I like them for the stereo representation, they're not the sharpest or detailed mics around, but can't get anymore the CK94 head and preamp, so I was wandering is something similar? The price of a new SE300+CK94 is around 650€ (in europe), perhaps second-hand? Can anyone of you point into any direction?

Thanks,
CS

[pohaku]

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=172938.0

See the new Naiant figure 8 mic.

[Gutbucket]

^^
I'm looking forward to this one.

[myke2241]

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=172938.0

See the new Naiant figure 8 mic.

it looks like two independant capsules or at the very least two distant diaphragms. a lot of people bock at dual diaphragms because it is not true fig8 although it will work and on high end mics like the MKH 80 & 800 (diaphragm much closer together) it works very nicely but the MKH 30 and KM120 are single diaphragm true fig8 with backplates. the CCM 8 is also single diaphragm but lacks a back plate to my understanding. if you are on a really low budget Naiant fig8 will work but not the way a fig8 is suppose to. if you have a budget buy something else.

[Bruce Watson]

Looking for a small condenser mic with Fig8 polar configuration.

Sennheiser MKH 30. Single diaphragm. Sufficiently symmetrical that they get used as the side mic in a lot of classical and acoustical M/S recordings. May be the only RF condenser figure 8 mic, which may explain its lasting popularity with the wildlife and soundscape people using M/S for field recording.

Very hard to find on the used markets, yet Sennheiser has declined to make the much rumored MKH 8030 because of low expected sales. Hard to understand, but I don't have access to their spreadsheets.

[backwhereubelong]

I have a PipSqueek bu Naiant ... is it enough juice to power one of these?

[backwhereubelong]

No, it needs phantom power, at least 9V @ 1.5mA.

Thank You!  Can this be terminated into a mini-jack (1/8) or am I completely missing the boat here? 

[noahbickart]

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/629674-REG/Ambient_Recording_ATE208_SET_ATE_208_SET_Emesser.html

[myke2241]

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/629674-REG/Ambient_Recording_ATE208_SET_ATE_208_SET_Emesser.html

I totally forgot to mention the Emesser! V2 Emesser is much improved over V1 and is a great value as a kit! your really not going to get much smaller either.

[2manyrocks]

The ck94 cap is still shown as a special order item at B & H for $499. 

[DSatz]

Jon, a single-diaphragm figure-8 capsule can be built with an electrode that is identical in size, shape and location to a second backplate but that isn't charged electrically; in this way it will be acoustically symmetrical even though it isn't "push-me, pull-you."

By the way, Schoeps used a true push-pull design in its figure-8 capsules in the 1960s, years before any other manufacturer. But they stopped using that approach since it didn't gain them any audible advantage, and made manufacture and repair more complicated.

[DSatz]

> the phase response of the system has the same effect irrespective of the angle of incidence of the sound that causes it

If the M and S (or X and Y) capsules are vertically aligned, and you draw a vertical line through the centers of their diaphragms, that line will have a midpoint. And then if you draw straight, horizontal lines going in toward that midpoint from all the directions where direct sound is occurring, the path length from any such point to the upper capsule = the path length from that same point to the lower capsule.

In practice, since the zenith of different sound sources is never exactly equal, you have to aim for an average zenith that splits the differences. Thus if your M/S or X/Y pair is at a higher elevation than the sound sources, you angle the pair downward somewhat. But that's what anyone would do anyway, no?

--best regards

[John Willett]

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=172938.0

See the new Naiant figure 8 mic.

Yuk - looks like back-to-back cardioids with quite a bit of space between the two diaphragms.

Not for me.

As has been said, the best is probably the Sennheiser MKH 30, but this is pretty expensive.

At the affordable end, I would go for the Ambient ATE 208 EMESSER - a single-diaphragm fig.8, small, high quality and affordable - comes complete with a Rycote clip to attach to the "Mid" mic. for MS.

[DSatz]

> back-to-back cardioids with quite a bit of space between the two diaphragms

If that's the approach, the results can be quite good throughout the low and mid frequency range, and even at high-ish frequencies within some angle in front and back of the mike, as long as the recording distance is large relative to the spacing.

If you remember the Neumann KM 86--that's how it worked in figure-8 mode as well, and that's how it got its good low-frequency response in that mode. Unfortunately, the worst-case angle for the KM 86 was between 45 and 60 degrees off-axis, where it had a fairly horrendous high frequency peak (see polar response diagrams attached). In a Blumlein setup, 45 degrees is front-and-center for both mikes! And in M/S usage the range of angles around 45 degress is also very much in play. (It was an excellent cardioid, though.)

[DSatz]

All true enough, and all relevant to varying degrees. But M/S recording isn't all completely random and f***ed up; the core of the direct sound is picked up in fairly decent fashion. Specifically, it's really OK for reverberant sound to be a bit phase-scrambled and partially comb-filtered at high frequencies. Reverberant sound should be distinctly rolled off on top before it ever reaches the mikes, so this injury is being done to something that's not even there so much, and certainly isn't the main event.

All stereophonic sound is an illusion. It just has to be adequate. No one in their right mind claims to reproduce three-dimensional sonic reality perfectly. And the most convincing representations use even more microphones and speakers, which tends to swamp one's perceptions of relative phasing rather than to give more accurate information.

We poor humans are just not all that good at detecting what's live and what's Memorex. Fortunately most people seem to prefer sonic pleasure over absolute sonic realism; it's far easier to get the former than the latter.

--best regards