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Author Topic: (mod)SBM1 Vs. PCM-M1 A/D Converter Comp (Spoilers/Answers now inside...)  (Read 16878 times)

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Offline Nick Graham

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« Last Edit: May 19, 2005, 12:13:37 PM by Nick Graham »
Right now nothing...in the past: Schoeps CMC6, AKG 480, AKG 460, AKG 414, MBHO 603a, Neumann KM100, ADK TL>Schoeps MK4, Schoeps MK2, Schoeps MK41, AKG ck61, AKG ck62, AKG ck63, Neumann AK40, Neumann AK50, MBHO ka200>Lunatec V2, Lunatec V3, Apogee Mini-Me, Oade M148, Oade M248, Sound Devices MP2, Sonosax SXM2>Sony (mod)SBM1, Apogee AD500>D7, D8, D100, M1, R1, R4, R09, iRiver HP120, Microtrack

Offline Brian Skalinder

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Re: (mod)SBM1 Vs. PCM-M1 A/D Converter Comp up in Kickdown Section...
« Reply #1 on: May 18, 2005, 04:50:14 PM »
Hmmmm...at just a quick listen, these sound closer to each other than I expected!  Gonna have to listen more before providing feedback...
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Roland R-05

Offline Teen Age Riot

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Re: (mod)SBM1 Vs. PCM-M1 A/D Converter Comp up in Kickdown Section...
« Reply #2 on: May 18, 2005, 07:49:25 PM »
I was suprised too. Considering that this is a modSBM1, I really don't regret selling my stock SBM1. To my ears the difference is very very subtle, but I prefer the second source, because the low end sounds slightly better. I'm very curious as to which source is which.

Offline Chris K

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Re: (mod)SBM1 Vs. PCM-M1 A/D Converter Comp up in Kickdown Section...
« Reply #3 on: May 18, 2005, 08:06:43 PM »
i downloaded but couldnt tell the difference either with my crappy pc speakers and my apple ipod earbuds.

i will give a listen through the tannoys and 7506's and thoughts a little later
My gear: JK Labs AKG DVC > M10
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Offline neutrino

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Re: (mod)SBM1 Vs. PCM-M1 A/D Converter Comp up in Kickdown Section...
« Reply #4 on: May 19, 2005, 11:56:28 AM »
I would have thought this comp would have been a no brainer cause I run both the MK4's and a modSBM-1. The big difference with my rig is that I use an nBox and here the Sonosax is used. I get a noticeably rounder and warmer low end and a less brittle sounding highs. The modSBM-1 could be improving what the NBox lacks, where with the Sonosax, there would be less of a noticeable improvement.
dB-
« Last Edit: May 19, 2005, 01:32:11 PM by neutrino »
CA14/OM14 > A10
Sony SBM-1 Oade mod

Offline Nick Graham

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Re: (mod)SBM1 Vs. PCM-M1 A/D Converter Comp up in Kickdown Section...
« Reply #5 on: May 19, 2005, 12:00:24 PM »
FWIW, here's the "answers":

Song 1 Source A: M1
Song 1 Source B: (mod)SBM1

Song 2 Source A: (mod)SBM1
Song 2 Source B: M1
Right now nothing...in the past: Schoeps CMC6, AKG 480, AKG 460, AKG 414, MBHO 603a, Neumann KM100, ADK TL>Schoeps MK4, Schoeps MK2, Schoeps MK41, AKG ck61, AKG ck62, AKG ck63, Neumann AK40, Neumann AK50, MBHO ka200>Lunatec V2, Lunatec V3, Apogee Mini-Me, Oade M148, Oade M248, Sound Devices MP2, Sonosax SXM2>Sony (mod)SBM1, Apogee AD500>D7, D8, D100, M1, R1, R4, R09, iRiver HP120, Microtrack

Offline macdaddy

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Re: (mod)SBM1 Vs. PCM-M1 A/D Converter Comp up in Kickdown Section...
« Reply #6 on: May 19, 2005, 12:06:05 PM »
ack - please say "spoiler ahead"

i hit reply real quick, cos i didnt want to see the answers... i will listen to these today, and be back... thanks for the effort...



-macdaddy ++

akg c422 > s42 > lunatec v2 > ad2k+ > roland r-44

Offline neutrino

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Re: (mod)SBM1 Vs. PCM-M1 A/D Converter Comp up in Kickdown Section...
« Reply #7 on: May 19, 2005, 12:07:21 PM »
After a few listens to the first sample I thought the B source was the modSBM-1. The low end in the b-source sounds a bit rounder/tighter... Nick, what's your conclusion?
dB-
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Sony SBM-1 Oade mod

Offline Brian Skalinder

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Re: (mod)SBM1 Vs. PCM-M1 A/D Converter Comp up in Kickdown Section...
« Reply #8 on: May 19, 2005, 12:09:00 PM »
I get a noticeable rounder and warmer low end and a less brittle sounding high. The modSBM-1 could be improving what the NBox lacks, where with the Sonosax, there would be less of a noticeable improvement.

In the recordings I've heard, the modSBM-1 definitely helps smooth out the HF nasties I hear in the NBox, whereas I find the SX-M2/LS2 smoother across the board regardless of ADC used.

FWIW, here's the "answers":

Double ACK!!  I'll have Jen rename the files for me so I don't know...still have some listening to do on this one...
Milab VM-44 Links > Fostex FR-2LE or
Naiant IPA (tinybox format) >
Roland R-05

Offline Nick Graham

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Re: (mod)SBM1 Vs. PCM-M1 A/D Converter Comp up in Kickdown Section...
« Reply #9 on: May 19, 2005, 12:11:37 PM »
Also, just to give my own opinion, I really can't hear enough difference to justify keeping the (mod)SBM1 in the chain.

It was great when I ran MBHOs and AKG 460s, as it definitely added some needed bottom end. With Schoeps though, they're not lacking in the low end dept., so it doesn't really seem necessary.

I'm gonna do it at more than just one show though, but I can't see the results being much different. The only thing I noticed was the low end did seem a bit tighter with the SBM1, not that the M1 source was sloppy or anything.

Just my $.02
Right now nothing...in the past: Schoeps CMC6, AKG 480, AKG 460, AKG 414, MBHO 603a, Neumann KM100, ADK TL>Schoeps MK4, Schoeps MK2, Schoeps MK41, AKG ck61, AKG ck62, AKG ck63, Neumann AK40, Neumann AK50, MBHO ka200>Lunatec V2, Lunatec V3, Apogee Mini-Me, Oade M148, Oade M248, Sound Devices MP2, Sonosax SXM2>Sony (mod)SBM1, Apogee AD500>D7, D8, D100, M1, R1, R4, R09, iRiver HP120, Microtrack

Offline Nick Graham

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ack - please say "spoiler ahead"

Updated the title of the thread...
Right now nothing...in the past: Schoeps CMC6, AKG 480, AKG 460, AKG 414, MBHO 603a, Neumann KM100, ADK TL>Schoeps MK4, Schoeps MK2, Schoeps MK41, AKG ck61, AKG ck62, AKG ck63, Neumann AK40, Neumann AK50, MBHO ka200>Lunatec V2, Lunatec V3, Apogee Mini-Me, Oade M148, Oade M248, Sound Devices MP2, Sonosax SXM2>Sony (mod)SBM1, Apogee AD500>D7, D8, D100, M1, R1, R4, R09, iRiver HP120, Microtrack

Offline JasonR

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Re: (mod)SBM1 Vs. PCM-M1 A/D Converter Comp up in Kickdown Section...
« Reply #11 on: May 19, 2005, 12:16:41 PM »
Aah... I was scratching my head trying to decide if I liked Source A or B better and couldn't decide because I liked one better on the first track, and the other on the second.

These are VERY similar sounding.  Monitoring on Genelec 1031As, I like 1B and 2A better for what sounds like better stereo seperation and slightly better dynamics.  The frequency response of the two are nearly indistinguisable.  I don't think I could tell which is which at all if these were mono summed.

- Jason
Schoeps MK21,MK4,MK41,MK41V,MK8 > CMC5/Naiant Tinybox/PFAs > Sound Devices 744T, Sony PCM-M10
DPA 4060 (CS HEB) > SD 744T, M10

Offline Nick Graham

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Aah... I was scratching my head trying to decide if I liked Source A or B better and couldn't decide because I liked one better on the first track, and the other on the second.

These are VERY similar sounding. Monitoring on Genelec 1031As, I like 1B and 2A better for what sounds like better stereo seperation and slightly better dynamics. The frequency response of the two are nearly indistinguisable. I don't think I could tell which is which at all if these were mono summed.

- Jason

Now here's the true test...

Let me borrow your 722 for a 3 way comp

;)

Right now nothing...in the past: Schoeps CMC6, AKG 480, AKG 460, AKG 414, MBHO 603a, Neumann KM100, ADK TL>Schoeps MK4, Schoeps MK2, Schoeps MK41, AKG ck61, AKG ck62, AKG ck63, Neumann AK40, Neumann AK50, MBHO ka200>Lunatec V2, Lunatec V3, Apogee Mini-Me, Oade M148, Oade M248, Sound Devices MP2, Sonosax SXM2>Sony (mod)SBM1, Apogee AD500>D7, D8, D100, M1, R1, R4, R09, iRiver HP120, Microtrack

Offline JasonR

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Now here's the true test...

Let me borrow your 722 for a 3 way comp

;)
Nashville's a little far, but you're welcome to come up to NYC and play with it for a while.  I could run a comparison between the SBM-1 (cable-mod only I believe), M1 and 722, but I wouldn't imagine there'd be any real interest in that.
Schoeps MK21,MK4,MK41,MK41V,MK8 > CMC5/Naiant Tinybox/PFAs > Sound Devices 744T, Sony PCM-M10
DPA 4060 (CS HEB) > SD 744T, M10

Offline Brian Skalinder

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Alright, don't have time at the moment to do a full blind listening test, but a quick post anyway.  I hear a bit more detail across the board in the modSBM-1 recording which results in slightly smoother highs and a touch fuller bass and a slightly more coherent soundstage.  These two sources sound mighty close to my ears - closer than I expected - and I'd be happy to walk away with either recording.  I know based on this listening (and my limited stealthing engagements) I can't justify the extra cash for the modSBM-1 in my stealth recording setup (MKx > KCY > SX-M2/LS2 > D100).
Milab VM-44 Links > Fostex FR-2LE or
Naiant IPA (tinybox format) >
Roland R-05

 

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