Topic: Sony PCM-M10 audio recorder - NEW

[su6oxone]

I'm going to try out my M10 at a live venue either tonight or tomorrow.

Any suggestions about the best format for posting the results?

I'll probably record at 24/96, but in order to post a recording of any length, I guess I'll have to convert it to MP3.

Ah... no you don't!  If you're posting a band that is on the Live Music Archive, then you can upload 24bit or 16bit flac.  Of course, mp3 would be fine if you're planning to put it on send space or mega upload for people to download from directly. 

Looking forward to hearing your results. 

[illconditioned]

I just received this unit.  Excellent in all aspects.  I love the "standby" feature.  Just hit record and you're running.  No need to turn it on or off.

Internal mics are amazing.  *Extremely* low noise.  It is quieter than 20dBA, probably much quieter than this.  I can't believe how good this is for ambient recording.

It would be worthwhile to build a combined baffle/windscreen for this thing, to improve stereo separation.

I have not tried mics on loud sources yet.

  Richard

[dogmusic]

Are you going to use the internal mics?

I may have to because the venue is small and I don't know the band.

I plan to record some of their set without their noticing, and then ask.

I'll bring along an external mic (probably AT822), just in case they don't mind.

[dogmusic]

I guess I'll have to convert it to MP3.

Ah... no you don't!  If you're posting a band that is on the Live Music Archive, then you can upload 24bit or 16bit flac.  Of course, mp3 would be fine if you're planning to put it on send space or mega upload for people to download from directly. 

Looking forward to hearing your results. 

How do I put it on the Live Music Archive?

[su6oxone]

How do I put it on the Live Music Archive?

The first step would be to find out if the band is part of the LMA.  Easiest way is to just search for the band's name on the website: http://www.archive.org/details/etree

If they do allow their shows to be uploaded to LMA, there's a standardized way that shows should be uploaded, but that can be found in the taperchat section thread: http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,126960.0.html

There's a bit of a learning curve, but it is not too bad.  Ask for help from users and two of the LMA mods in this thread: http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=127621.0

[dogmusic]

How do I put it on the Live Music Archive?

The first step would be to find out if the band is part of the LMA.  Easiest way is to just search for the band's name on the website: http://www.archive.org/details/etree

They're not there. So I guess I'll have to upload to another site. Which is the easiest free one that allows large file sizes?

[Ozpeter]

It would be worthwhile to build a combined baffle/windscreen for this thing, to improve stereo separation.

Remember that in post-production it is simple to use a VST effect such as Voxengo MSED to widen the stereo image using M/S techniques - as long as there is some separation in the original recording, you can widen it considerably later (or even vary the width in different parts of the performance according to circumstances).

[dogmusic]

I did some recording tonight of bands in a few clubs.

The M10 looks so much like a cell phone, that I think most people who noticed me holding it probably thought I was text messaging.

The M10 has surprisingly little handling noise.

I'll try to post some samples tomorrow.

[patchen]

Hi, this is my first post here.  I do mostly field recordings but this forum is a great resource none the less.  Just picked up the pcm-m10 and thought I'd post a couple findings. tests were done with a pcm-m10, a microtrack1, mixpre and pair of AT3031's.

- even though the noise floor is about the same as my microtrack1, it sounds noisier because it's noise is just about perfect white noise which is more audible than the darker noise of the microtrack.

-noise floor sits around -76db using the line in, this is regardless of gain setting.  (Cranking the gain right up does not affect noise floor) ...strange

-limiter sounds a bit more transparant than the one in my mixpre to my ears, I'll be using the sony limiter instead of the mixpre limiter.

-it can take all the level a mixpre can throw at it using the 1/8" tape out. I've found the ideal gain setting to be around the 4 mark on the sony.

-sounds slightly sweeter to my ears than the microtrack1 when testing with complex high frequency sounds, (metal percussion and shaker test).  Good sound quality, though it's obviously no Apogee...

-internal mics are actually decent, though as you would expect the stereo separation is not that great.  Would be good for collecting foley type sounds and 'close' sounds.  Could be good for taping if you widened the image in post a bit with a mide/side processor.

-overall very user friendly and intuitive operation, also, this thing reeks of class even though it is mostly plastic.  (only the front facia is metal)

In my opinion the only major caveat is the noise floor, if you've got a recording with peaks of -12db and then normalize it in post, all the sudden your noise is in the -60db's, which to me is audible.

[dogmusic]

Here are some selections from recordings made of local bands last night.

Used internal mics only, 24/96, no limiter.

I did the edits as well as some panning and gain adjustments in Audacity. I could not figure out how to export the files as 24 bit, so these are 16 bit files.

1. "earle" - Sitting far back from the band. M10 on the table.

http://www.box.net/shared/pov51ac7gz

2. "anderson" - organ & drums duo. Stood quite close but to one side, holding M10.

http://www.box.net/shared/qbekg2kkti

3. "sutherland" - R&B horn band. Stood about 20 feet back and to the side, again holding the M10.

http://www.box.net/shared/t0uk0oj8vm

(I think when I raised the gain in Audacity on this last one, #3, that I may have introduced some distortion.)

[Craig T]

-noise floor sits around -76db using the line in, this is regardless of gain setting.  (Cranking the gain right up does not affect noise floor) ...strange

Disappointing.  I'd like to see a confirmation of this noise spec.  The R09HR and DR07 are both significantly better when running line-in.

[xpander]

Internal mics are amazing.  *Extremely* low noise.  It is quieter than 20dBA, probably much quieter than this.  I can't believe how good this is for ambient recording.

Richard, care to compare to D50 in this regard, since you have that one also?

I have used D50 internals for almost a year now. While they are really sensitive and sound ok, I find the noise floor just a tad too high for real ambient (field) recording...unless its somewhat louder sources like birds nearby, cars, thunder etc. I run gain around 4.5, above that and the hiss is getting too noticeable for more silent sources.

No problems at all with the line in, it's the noise of the internal mics I'm interested in, compared to M10.

[flintstone]

if the PCM-M10 has preamp noise that can be detected under some circumstances, it will still be useful for recording for most Tapers Section folks.

A while back, Digifish posted a comparison of the Edirol R09HR recording using its internal preamp, and using the same mics with a high quality external preamp.  The results demonstrate the difference in self-noise between "quiet" and "very quiet" preamp. 

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=105893.msg1443847#msg1443847

But as we have learned, the R09HR does work very well for recording live music in the typical club venue. 

Richard ("illconditioned"), at one time you had an R09HR.  How do your think the PCM-M10 compares to the Edirol in self-noise, and in other ways?

Flintstone

[illconditioned]

if the PCM-M10 has preamp noise that can be detected under some circumstances, it will still be useful for recording for most Tapers Section folks.

A while back, Digifish posted a comparison of the Edirol R09HR recording using its internal preamp, and using the same mics with a high quality external preamp.  The results demonstrate the difference in self-noise between "quiet" and "very quiet" preamp. 

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=105893.msg1443847#msg1443847

But as we have learned, the R09HR does work very well for recording live music in the typical club venue. 

Richard ("illconditioned"), at one time you had an R09HR.  How do your think the PCM-M10 compares to the Edirol in self-noise, and in other ways?

Flintstone

I never had an HR.  Right now I've got an R09, D50 and M10.  I'll measure the M10 noise and get back to you.  My initial impressions (internal mics) is that this thing is *incredibly* quiet.  Something like 18 or 20dBA.  I highly suspect the OP measurements are in error, but I need to test to be sure.

  Richard

[patchen]

-noise floor sits around -76db using the line in, this is regardless of gain setting.  (Cranking the gain right up does not affect noise floor) ...strange

BTW, this is with the line in.  I have not tested the noise level of the internal mics or mic pre.  I would love confirmation of this spec tho' cause if I have a faulty unit I'd like to know...
It just seems strange for there to be broad band white noise that just sits there at -76db regardless of gain setting...

EDIT; -76db is the peak readings, it's about -85db rms according to wavelabs meters