Topic: Sony PCM-M10 audio recorder - NEW

[Idle Wind]

I like the upgradeable firmware of the Edirol.  The Sony is locked down, right?

Also, anyone comment on any advantage of an 88.2 Sampling Rate over 96?  Edirol has both, Sony only 96.  I don't know if the easier math makes for a better downsample from 88.2->44.1   

[Ekib]

Can you still use Sonic Stage software with this unit ?

It looks like it has Soundforge Audio Studio packaged with it. It also came with the D50. It doesn't have all the features of Sound Forge, but it's worked well enough for me.

I only use Sonic Stage to transfer/convert those *&^%$ .oma files from my Hi-MD to PC. Don't know why you'd want or need to use it with this unit.

Because it's an easy and simple piece of software . And the latest version automatically converts any HI MD file to WAV anyway.

Anyone here used HI MD also and used the new PCM-M10 instead ?
I still don't see any reason why I should retire my MZ RH1 over the new PCM-10.

[hoppedup]

Anyone here used HI MD also and used the new PCM-M10 instead ?
I still don't see any reason why I should retire my MZ RH1 over the new PCM-10.

I have and still use Hi-MD. And I have a PCM D50. A few reasons to use a PCM-M10 instead:

1. You can record with more bit depth and higher sampling rate
2. You can get a microSD card and record lossless audio for hours rather than 94 minutes
3. You have more control over gain/levels
4. No disc swaps
5. Records wav files that don't require proprietary software to import

Why I keep my Hi-MD:

1. Stealthy as hell
2. I have more mics than recorders, so I can run it as a backup
3. Convenient for acts under 94 minutes
4. It makes great recordings
5. I found this website a few weeks too late and paid way too much for it

If you're happy with what you have, there really is no reason to change. I will retire my HiMD when it dies of mechanical failure or the Li-Ion battery quits.




 

[tekdroid]

Anyone here used HI MD also and used the new PCM-M10 instead ?
I still don't see any reason why I should retire my MZ RH1 over the new PCM-10.

1) no mechanical noise at all means integrated mics are possible with zero chance of undesirables. It also means never being concerned with muffling the sound of your unit with close-up quiet recordings
2) far higher power headphone output, useful for monitoring (and listening) with a wider range of higher-impedance (and/or less sensitive) hi-fi headphones, rather than being limited to lower-impedance (and usually worse-sounding) 'phones
3) native drag-n-drop for audio files, no conversions necessary
4) speed of copying audio files to (and from) virtually any modern PC is like comparing a car to a snail (Hi-MD), and with no intermediary conversion software needed on any machine to do so
5) 24 bit audio allows far more 'wiggle room' with levels
6) on-board display and controls (buttons, etc) and indicators are better (but it would be nice to see some MD-type remotes)
7) battery life is far better (but then again these units still are bigger)
storage capacity and low cost of media means you can record at the highest quality continuously without worrying about disc swaps or hunting out new Hi-MDs in shops (MicroSD is far more popular than Hi-MD ever was)
9) far more stable non-OLED display (that doesn't fade with use) that can be seen in the sun just as visibly as traditional LCDs too (because it is one)
10) far more bit-rate and sampling-rate choices
11) faster editing of audio files on-unit

I still love my Hi-MD units for their small size, optical ins, remotes, playback modes and editing/titling features - some of which the new recorders don't have.

Sony's current recorders (and the PCM-M10) remind me so much of old-school Sony: innovation and solid hardware without the DRM paranoia - and now with far more reasonable pricing aimed at the masses. It's been a long while since I have been this excited about a product range from Sony.

(I currently make love to the PCM-D50 daily).

[Nick's Picks]

ewe.

[Nick's Picks]

but I like the potential of the d50/d10 option.  the optical input is what I'd like for future needs , though there are only a small handful of decks that would utilise it and be worth while...but if the preamp is clean on it...., then I dont really care about digital inputs and the d10 will do just fine.  especially since it seems to be as well liked (at least thus far) as the R9HR, does some things better...maybe some things worse.  been freakin' years since I've owned a Sony recording deck.   YEARS....., like 12.

[Ekib]

Anyone here used HI MD also and used the new PCM-M10 instead ?
I still don't see any reason why I should retire my MZ RH1 over the new PCM-10.

I have and still use Hi-MD. And I have a PCM D50. A few reasons to use a PCM-M10 instead:

1. You can record with more bit depth and higher sampling rate
2. You can get a microSD card and record lossless audio for hours rather than 94 minutes
3. You have more control over gain/levels
4. No disc swaps
5. Records wav files that don't require proprietary software to import

Why I keep my Hi-MD:

1. Stealthy as hell
2. I have more mics than recorders, so I can run it as a backup
3. Convenient for acts under 94 minutes
4. It makes great recordings
5. I found this website a few weeks too late and paid way too much for it

If you're happy with what you have, there really is no reason to change. I will retire my HiMD when it dies of mechanical failure or the Li-Ion battery quits.

1) no mechanical noise at all means integrated mics are possible with zero chance of undesirables. It also means never being concerned with muffling the sound of your unit with close-up quiet recordings
2) far higher power headphone output, useful for monitoring (and listening) with a wider range of higher-impedance (and/or less sensitive) hi-fi headphones, rather than being limited to lower-impedance (and usually worse-sounding) 'phones
3) native drag-n-drop for audio files, no conversions necessary
4) speed of copying audio files to (and from) virtually any modern PC is like comparing a car to a snail (Hi-MD), and with no intermediary conversion software needed on any machine to do so
5) 24 bit audio allows far more 'wiggle room' with levels
6) on-board display and controls (buttons, etc) and indicators are better (but it would be nice to see some MD-type remotes)
7) battery life is far better (but then again these units still are bigger)
storage capacity and low cost of media means you can record at the highest quality continuously without worrying about disc swaps or hunting out new Hi-MDs in shops (MicroSD is far more popular than Hi-MD ever was)
9) far more stable non-OLED display (that doesn't fade with use) that can be seen in the sun just as visibly as traditional LCDs too (because it is one)
10) far more bit-rate and sampling-rate choices
11) faster editing of audio files on-unit

I still love my Hi-MD units for their small size, optical ins, remotes, playback modes and editing/titling features - some of which the new recorders don't have.

Sony's current recorders (and the PCM-M10) remind me so much of old-school Sony: innovation and solid hardware without the DRM paranoia - and now with far more reasonable pricing aimed at the masses. It's been a long while since I have been this excited about a product range from Sony.

(I currently make love to the PCM-D50 daily).

Thanks for the pro's and con's !
Very interesting to read !

1. You can record with more bit depth and higher sampling rate
2. You can get a microSD card and record lossless audio for hours rather than 94 minutes

Do you really hear the difference ? I ask because when I used to record with DAT I never heard the difference between LP and SP at all. And I have a very good High End Audio set to compare
I have always felt the biggest difference are the mic's. Whatever is used to record is almost second rate. Especially recording digital I don't think there is that much difference ( at least what your ears really can hear , there will be a difference when you look at technical specificatons ).
So to me a recorder has to be practical. It seems this new SONY PCM-M10 seems very easy to work with.
Still I would feel kind of funny about not having an original "masterdisc"( or in the old days mastertaper).

Does the PCM-M10 has an analog line out ?
Also does this unit have a "low" ( or -20DB ) mic setting ?

[hoppedup]

Do you really hear the difference ? I ask because when I used to record with DAT I never heard the difference between LP and SP at all.

I think Hi-SP sounds fine and I may use it in the future. But not likely.

I share most everything I record, so I like recording in a lossless format. The first recording I made was in Hi-SP and I still listen to it often. It sounds great. But now I can record 24/48 for around 8 hours with an 8gb card. So I do.

[tekdroid]

Does the PCM-M10 has an analog line out ?
Also does this unit have a "low" ( or -20DB ) mic setting ?

http://pro.sony.com/bbsc/ssr/product-PCMM10/B/
Under the Resources tab, there's the manual. This and more are answered. It's a great read, actually. I enjoy the Sony manuals.

Yes to analogue output (page 58 and 59)
HI / LOW sensitivity switch for mic  (page 42-43)

Oh and I forgot to mention other benefits over MD: PRE-RECording feature (allows 5 seconds to be buffered when in PAUSE-RECORD mode) can avoid those "I missed it" moments and the great Limiter on the PCM-D50 can save your buttski if you have it turned on during a loud passage. Low Cut Filter is also useful, too - especially if your mics don't have one.

Anyway, you may be curious about some of the differences between the PCM-M10 and PCM-D50. I mostly list these for my own amusement (I'll be buying it anyway, it's just that I really do want to get it with the windscreen, and ... well, that windscreen is a bit thin on the ground...but see the bit at the end for windscreen talk)


Sony PCM-M10 compared to Sony PCM-D50:
* smaller size (uses 2x AA versus 4x AA)
* more battery life
* built-in speaker
* hand strap and carrying pouch included
* AUTO record level feature added (in addition to Manual)
* added ability to record MP3 and playback AAC and WMA
* remote control bundled (to match some of the competition)
* slightly reduced headphone output (20mW + 20mW into 16 ohms versus 25mW or more on PCM-D50, but still far better than 5mW [or less] used on all Hi-MD
* no optical in or outs
* fixed integrated (omnidirectional) mics versus movable integrated (cardiod) mics
* MicroSD support and Memory Stick Micro [M2] support (rather than Memory Stick Pro Duo)
* bass enhancement feature added (I guess they don't like to call it Mega Bass) (page 56)
* plastic mic and headphone output sockets versus metal on PCM-D50
* VOLUME buttons versus VOLUME dial on PCM-D50 (recording level dial still present)
* ability to change the Display Mode during playback (ie. take the Level Meters off and display more file info instead) - Pages 49 and 50
* more Playback Modes (page 51 and 52)
* ability to choose battery chemistry in-menu for (supposedly) more acccurate battery life measurements (Page 12 and 13)
* ability to choose between 11 languages for the menu display (Pages 18-19)
* option for Cross-memory recording added (Page 39 and 40)
* Low Cut Filter (LCF) only has ON or OFF feature and it's in-menu not a physical switch. Manual doesn't say what frequency it works at (PCM-D50 gives you a choice of 75Hz and 150Hz and a physical switch for quick ON and OFF).
* LIMITER apparently dumbed-down in PCM-M10 and works in a more advanced (and useful) fashion in the PCM-D50 (if I'm reading early impressions correctly)
* Key Control feature added (Pages 55 to 56)
* TAKE and KEEP feature added (page 62 - 63)
* PROTECT feature added (Page 64)
* ability to copy tracks between internal and removable memory (page 65-66)
* headphone / Line Out jack integrated (and switchable setting in-menu) rather than separate jacks
* Backlight button is menu-selectable: (10sec, 60sec, Always-ON, OFF) but dedicated LIGHT button is missing on unit
* HOLD switch is integrated with POWER switch. Powering on now takes a slide of 1 second on the POWER switch and 2 second slide to POWER OFF rather than just being a regular switch that may be accidentally switched when gripping the unit (though this must be very rare given how the PCM-D50 is designed; it's not very conducive to accidental switchings)
* added the ability to add Track Marks (Pages 60-62) as a separate feature to Dividing a track
* more friendly messages for the masses (see the graphic on Page 24)
* T-MARK (Track Marks) now have precedence over Divide (Divide button is missing on front and is now a menu-item). Divide can no longer be performed during recording, but its use has pretty much been replaced by the much more flexible Track Mark. Track-marking also gives the option to Divide any Track Marks you have.
* FOLDER and MENU function are now two separate buttons. Good. Previously these were shared on the same button with a quick press and a longer press separating their functions.
* Dedicated DELETE button added


So Sony giveth and they taketh away, too. But they've done a lot here and it's a great value product, I feel. Sony has looked at the competition and decided on a strong set of features while taking some of the (arguably) less-important ones away (yay for competition).

Windscreen talk
As an aside, the manual hints at the elusive PCM-M10P on the first page (listing the model number there) as well as on Page 9 and Page 92. This model apparently comes with the AD-PCM2 windscreen bundled.

When will we see it? Who knows.
Sony, any word?

[jeffee]

Wow!  That is a great and very helpful comparison.  Thanks!

I really love my pcm-d50.

-Jeff

[darktrain]

Does the PCM-M10 has an analog line out ?
Also does this unit have a "low" ( or -20DB ) mic setting ?

http://pro.sony.com/bbsc/ssr/product-PCMM10/B/
Under the Resources tab, there's the manual. This and more are answered. It's a great read, actually. I enjoy the Sony manuals.

Yes to analogue output (page 58 and 59)
HI / LOW sensitivity switch for mic  (page 42-43)

Oh and I forgot to mention other benefits over MD: PRE-RECording feature (allows 5 seconds to be buffered when in PAUSE-RECORD mode) can avoid those "I missed it" moments and the great Limiter on the PCM-D50 can save your buttski if you have it turned on during a loud passage. Low Cut Filter is also useful, too - especially if your mics don't have one.

Anyway, you may be curious about some of the differences between the PCM-M10 and PCM-D50. I mostly list these for my own amusement (I'll be buying it anyway, it's just that I really do want to get it with the windscreen, and ... well, that windscreen is a bit thin on the ground...but see the bit at the end for windscreen talk)


Sony PCM-M10 compared to Sony PCM-D50:
* smaller size (uses 2x AA versus 4x AA)
* more battery life
* no AC adaptor bundled
* built-in speaker
* hand strap and carrying pouch included
* AUTO record level feature added (in addition to Manual)
* added ability to record MP3 and playback AAC and WMA
* remote control bundled (to match some of the competition)
* slightly reduced headphone output (20mW + 20mW into 16 ohms versus 25mW or more on PCM-D50, but still far better than 5mW [or less] used on all Hi-MD
* no optical in or outs
* fixed integrated mics versus movable
* MicroSD support and Memory Stick Micro [M2] support (rather than Memory Stick Pro Duo)
* bass enhancement feature added (I guess they don't like to call it Mega Bass) (page 56)
* plastic mic and headphone output sockets versus metal on PCM-D50
* VOLUME buttons versus VOLUME dial on PCM-D50 (recording level dial still present)
* ability to change the Display Mode during playback (ie. take the Level Meters off and display more file info instead) - Pages 49 and 50
* more Playback Modes (page 51 and 52)
* ability to choose battery chemistry in-menu for (supposedly) more acccurate battery life measurements (Page 12 and 13)
* ability to choose between 11 languages for the menu display (Pages 18-19)
* option for Cross-memory recording added (Page 39 and 40)
* Low Cut Filter (LCF) only has ON or OFF feature and it's in-menu not a physical switch. Manual doesn't say what frequency it works at (PCM-D50 gives you a choice of 75Hz and 150Hz and a physical switch for quick ON and OFF).
* LIMITER apparently dumbed-down in PCM-M10 and works in a more advanced (and useful) fashion in the PCM-D50 (if I'm reading early impressions correctly)
* Key Control feature added (Pages 55 to 56)
* TAKE and KEEP feature added (page 62 - 63)
* PROTECT feature added (Page 64)
* ability to copy tracks between internal and removable memory (page 65-66)
* headphone / Line Out jack integrated (and switchable setting in-menu) rather than separate jacks
* Backlight button is menu-selectable: (10sec, 60sec, Always-ON, OFF) but dedicated LIGHT button is missing on unit
* HOLD switch is integrated with POWER switch. Powering on now takes a slide of 1 second on the POWER switch and 2 second slide to POWER OFF rather than just being a regular switch that may be accidentally switched when gripping the unit (though this must be very rare given how the PCM-D50 is designed; it's not very conducive to accidental switchings)
* added the ability to add Track Marks (Pages 60-62) as a separate feature to Dividing a track
* more friendly messages for the masses (see the graphic on Page 24)
* T-MARK (Track Marks) now have precedence over Divide (Divide button is missing on front and is now a menu-item). Divide can no longer be performed during recording, but its use has pretty much been replaced by the much more flexible Track Mark. Track-marking also gives the option to Divide any Track Marks you have.
* FOLDER and MENU function are now two separate buttons. Good. Previously these were shared on the same button with a quick press and a longer press separating their functions.
* Dedicated DELETE button added


So Sony giveth and they taketh away, too. But they've done a lot here and it's a great value product, I feel. Sony has looked at the competition and decided on a strong set of features while taking some of the (arguably) less-important ones away (yay for competition).

Windscreen talk
As an aside, the manual hints at the elusive PCM-M10P on the first page (listing the model number there) as well as on Page 9 and Page 92. This model apparently comes with the AD-PCM2 windscreen bundled.

When will we see it? Who knows.
Sony, any word?

Actually the M10 does come with  a ac power adapter

[mloewen]

Mine did not come with a windscreen.

[tekdroid]

Actually the M10 does come with  a ac power adapter

Excellent. More reason to get the PCM-M10. I always like that option.

The PDF manual doesn't list it. If memory serves, I think even with the PCM-D50 they had other territories where the AC Adaptor wasn't included but other items like a case would be (again, if memory serves).

[tekdroid]

Mine did not come with a windscreen.

Right. Probably because your model doesn't end in P, right (ie. PCM-M10P)? I haven't seen that selling anywhere but it's mentioned in the manual.

The good thing with the PCM-D50 now is it's bundled with the windscreen at B&H for not-too-much more dollars. Well, ok, maybe $160 more dollars, but it's a fine unit!  :p

Then again, there's always the option to make your own.

[mloewen]

There are windscreens for sale on ebay for the PCM-M10 one for 19.99 and another for 23.99 . there is also an offical Sony windscreen for 62.99.

 I decided to make my own but had a hard time finding faux fur that was long enough. Then I found distinctivefabrics.com they have a 3 inch pyle and if you join their web site they will send you 3 free swatches (no charge for postage even) samples 5 X 3 1/2 " plenty big enough to make a windscreen just get a short piece of elastic and you can make a cheap or free windscreen.