Topic: Getting Back in the Game / Best Rig For $800-$1000?

[charles]

Been out of taping for several years now, but a recent experience has me strongly considering getting back in the game. I need some suggestions for the best rig that can be assembled for $800 to $1000. 4 years ago I could have easily answered this question myself, but I'm assuming that there is a lot of new equipment that has come out in the past 4 or 5 years. I'm looking for something versatile and I have no interest in stealth. Music taped would include jazz, rock, blues and bluegrass. One thing to consider is that I have a good laptop already prepped for taping and loaded with Wavelab and Soundforge so that can be part of the rig, which would allow more money to be allotted to the mics, pres, etc. Of course, if there is a much better option out there than the laptop I would be open to that as well.

I know these questions get asked often because I used to answer them often when I was a more active member. I would really appreciate any advice that can be offered, so thank you in advance.

[edtyre]

There are some very good mics for sale in the Yard Sale right now:
Gefells
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=132214.0
900.00
Beyers
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=118800.0
1125.00

Add a small recorder
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/594741-REG/Marantz_PMD661_PMD661_Professional_Portable_Flash.html
599.00

This is more than your budget, but you can make smokin tapes right out of the gate with this setup.

[Scooter123]

I used to be a sound guy, and here is my low end solution:

Shure Mikes--I'd go for the ubiquitous M58.  A solid "B" mike used on most stages today.  About $250 for a pair
Preamp--I'd go with a Nady DMP2  About $150
Edirol Recorder  About $300
Mike Stand, Windshields, Cables.  About $150

This would get you started. 

[charles]

I used to be a sound guy, and here is my low end solution:

Shure Mikes--I'd go for the ubiquitous M58.  A solid "B" mike used on most stages today.  About $250 for a pair
Preamp--I'd go with a Nady DMP2  About $150
Edirol Recorder  About $300
Mike Stand, Windshields, Cables.  About $150

This would get you started.

What if I were to scratch the Edirol, use my laptop and Wavelab, and apply that $300 to upgrade the rest of the equipment needed? Would that be a possibility? If so, what would you do with the extra $300?

[it-goes-to-eleven]

Used r09 for $150
Littlebox ($180?)
Some mics.

[jeromejello]

i would probably skip the laptop... it always seemed to me to be more of a pain in the ass then its worth...

approximate prices...
150 used r-09
350 used mixpre/mp-2
500 - 700 used mics... what every you can get for the price... beyer 930s seem to be popular at that price point...

[charles]

i would probably skip the laptop... it always seemed to me to be more of a pain in the ass then its worth...

approximate prices...
150 used r-09
350 used mixpre/mp-2
500 - 700 used mics... what every you can get for the price... beyer 930s seem to be popular at that price point...

That seems reasonable. I'll have to look into the r09 and the Beyer 930s's as I'm not very familiar with either. The MP2 I'm very familiar with.

By saying the laptop is more of a pain that it's worth are you referring to dealing with the battery life and the general uneasiness that comes with trying to protect a laptop through an entire show?

[goodcooker]

For under a thousand I would get these http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=131347.0
and this http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=131298.0

I know someone going to say that the Marantz 660 is only 16 bit but this box sounds great and is in your price range.

That leaves several hundred for a stand, cables, battery power, a bag and all the other stuff you end up needing.

Other mics in your price range

M Audio Pulsar ~300 pair new
Studio Projects C4 ~ 200 pair used
Peluso CMC6 ~600 new

Another option would be a Church Audio mic + preamp setup with a mini recorder (R09, Marantz 620, Tascam DR2d)
Pocket sized but suitable for open taping as well.

[rastasean]

For a recorder, I'd suggest the 09HR and one is now in the yard sale:
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=133991.0  $230

These mics look to be for sale and you get card, omn, and hyper caps:
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=131347.0

little box pre-amp, cables, and stand

[SmokinJoe]

I think those  ADK  SC-T's are sold.

There  is a guy here (Chris Johnson)  who goes by the nickname  "Busman".  Now  Busman has his own line of mics... there is a this pair  http://busmanaudio.com/bsc1.htmlv  with  omni/subcard/card/hypers  for $450.   I've  never used them, but people seem to like them and I think think they are work considering.

An Edirol UA-5 is a good preamp with USB output  for your laptop.  Most tapers have  them modified to run without needing a computer and further  improvements to clean up the signal chain.  UA-5s are no  longer made, but there is a ton of them around.   A stock  one probably goes for  $100 and a good modded one  for  $250.  This would great because you can use your laptop now, and if you want  to switch to another recorder you can do that later.

[Scooter123]

Some Shure M57's just sold on eBay for $50 a piece.  This is a good solid, workhorse type mike.  They are very fugible and you could sell them for the same $50 a year or two from now, if you want to upgrade.

[Patrick]

Some Shure M57's just sold on eBay for $50 a piece.  This is a good solid, workhorse type mike.  They are very fugible and you could sell them for the same $50 a year or two from now, if you want to upgrade.

I couldn't recommend taping with sm57's or sm58's.  Not only are they dynamic mics, but they have a frequency response that is optimzed for handheld and onstage use.  They have a dramatic proximity effect which is not ideal for distant sound sources.  Also given the fact that there are acceptable sounding condensors at the same price as a pair of 58's makes this a no brainer, IMO.     

[stevetoney]

Since you were into taping before, you know that the mics are the most important.  Then the preamp.  So, for a grand, hands down the rig to get is the M300s in the yard sale right now.  The Niant Littlebox again is hands down the best sounding preamp box for 200 money can buy.  To hell with the recorder...since you've got your computer, go straight into your computer and you're there for just over a grand.  This would be a FANTASTIC sounding rig for a grand.  Alternatively, substitute an Oade UA-5 for the Littlebox.  Can't go far wrong either way.  This is all assuming you have a good soundcard in your computer, as your OP implies.

[Fried Chicken Boy]

By saying the laptop is more of a pain that it's worth are you referring to dealing with the battery life and the general uneasiness that comes with trying to protect a laptop through an entire show?

That's certainly part of it.  I definitely wouldn't expect to get access to a power outlet at a venue.  Even if you know somebody working there it can be a hassle and several bands even include a condition in their taping policies about having a self-powered/contained rig.  Powering a laptop and mic-computer interface for a few hours can be difficult; a marathon 4-5 hour show would be close to impossible.

From personal experience, I have a friend who decided to use his Mac and a Motu Traveller to begin recording live shows a little over 3 years ago.  I helped him out a handful of times and it was always a headache.  The Motu was bus powered so we could run it off the firewire port but we were lucky to get barely 2 hours before the laptop ran out of juice.  And as you pointed out, there was the stress of wondering if the fragile computer would make it through the evening without someone stumbling into or spilling a drink on it.  The biggest issue, IMO, was the recordings themselves were riddled with dropouts and skips as the Mac's CPU had a hard time keeping up.  It ultimately made for a lot of work in post and the effort was barely worth it.

Granted, technology has advanced in the past few years, but I'm sticking to the simplicity and durability of my digital recorders. 

[stevetoney]

By saying the laptop is more of a pain that it's worth are you referring to dealing with the battery life and the general uneasiness that comes with trying to protect a laptop through an entire show?

Granted, technology has advanced in the past few years, but I'm sticking to the simplicity and durability of my digital recorders. 

I don't disagree with you, but I'm all about getting good sound with my rig, so I personally put priority on getting better sound than what I record onto.  That's why I usually recommend starting with the mics and working backwards.  Since he already has an end device to record with, he can concentrate on getting the best upfront sound possible now with the budget that he has and then start saving so that a year or two down the road he can pick up that field convenient recorder.  Given the choice, I think I'd go for sound quality first and foremost because in the 1K range, you're in that range where the sound can go from acceptable and kinda marginal with the lower end pair of mics in the 200 to 300 range (because of the watered down budget if you buy a field recorder now) to very nice in the 600 to 800 range (by putting that extra money into mics now instead of a recorder). 

FWIW, I agree that laptop recording isn't as convenient as a nice pocket sized digital recorder, but plenty of people record directly into laptops these days...I mean thats where all of the files end up when we get home anyways.  So for me, when it comes to laptop recording in the field, it's simply a question of having enough power in the field.   

PS:  I would add a recommendation to take your $300 low end laptop rather than your $2000 newly purchased top of the line model.  Need to always consider the possibility of the presence of beer and drunkenness in the taping environment.