Topic: Cell phone interference

[dlh]

I'm not new to recording, but my experience was "pre-cell phone".
Last night, at a small club, I experienced my first cell phone interference.
Mics were above a table of several texting addicts.
SDC's are connected through 6' breakouts to 50' Canare stereo cable with 6' breakouts at the recorder.
I built the breakouts with cable from Aquarian Audio because of it's small diameter and fairly rugged construction:

http://www.aquarianaudio.com/product.php?productid=24&cat=0&page=1
"It was specified with a 0.175" jacket diameter, but delivered with a nominal 0.160" diameter, so the cable was remade to spec and we ended up with the surplus. Perfect condition! 24-gauge (40 x 40) oxygen-free balanced conductors with low-capacitance foamed polyethylene dielectric, 95% TC braid with 24-gauge drain, and TPE jacket."

So . . . I'd like opinions, experience, from others regarding the "weak link" in the chain.
Can the cell phone gremlins enter the mic itself?
Should I try rebuilding the breakouts with different cable? (suggestions? I just need cable small enough for two to fit in a Neutrik)
Would shortening the breakouts help?
Did the 50' stereo cable contribute to the problem?
(Or am I just doomed?) 

I'm thinking it's mics or breakouts because the audience was full of cell phone addicts. (Don't get me started.)
The only ones affecting my signal were in close proximity to the mic stand.  (I was watching them.)

Thanks for your help.  I may post some clips later, but I'm convinced, from posts here, that it was cell phone noise.

Dave

[rocksuitcase]

I think a clip may help determine the cause. Without it, I can tell you Cell phone interference used to be common with my D-8 in the DAT taping days.
My opinion is that it is the deck which exhibits or gets affected by the interference.
You did not say what recorder you are using, but the electronics in most digital recorders can be succeptible to certain types of interference.

I'm interested to hear what others experiences have been with cell phone interference during recording.

 

[dlh]

Recorder: Fostex FR-2le

[page]

Recorder: Fostex FR-2le

I only had some sort of cell interference with the fr2le once and it was in a sea of other tapers. 

Was any of your connections unbalanced, especially the 50' one?

[Shadow_7]

Mics can pick it up.  Cables can pick it up.  The connectors can pick it up.  Even the recorder itself can pick it up.  It's a tough one to troubleshoot.  Proximity to the interference helps generalize where the link is deficient.  But not really an indication of why / how / how much.  It could be combinations of things.  I have a Korg MR-1000 and Avenson STO-2 and Mogami quad core cables.  Mostly immune to cell phones.  Now if the house system isn't and transmits that over the PA, then sound is generated and recorded by the mics.  My setup isn't immune by any means.  The mics seem sensitive to high voltage.  And the whole kit sensitive to radio towers.  It's the mics lowering them helped.  It's the field recorder, ducking it under aluminum bleachers helped.  It's the headphones, it sounded way worse on location than back at the cave.  It's the cables, because it shouldn't have been anything other than that.  Balanced and shielded, and fancy connectors to prevent weak links is the way to go.  Put the recorder in an aluminum box see if that helps.  Wrap tin foil shiny side out around the connectors, see if that helps.  Use different mics, see if that helps.  There is probably a main cause, but it might not be the only cause.

[dlh]

Recorder: Fostex FR-2le

I only had some sort of cell interference with the fr2le once and it was in a sea of other tapers. 

Was any of your connections unbalanced, especially the 50' one?

All balanced.

[doodee]

I think a clip may help determine the cause. Without it, I can tell you Cell phone interference used to be common with my D-8 in the DAT taping days.
My opinion is that it is the deck which exhibits or gets affected by the interference.
You did not say what recorder you are using, but the electronics in most digital recorders can be succeptible to certain types of interference.

I'm interested to hear what others experiences have been with cell phone interference during recording.

I've had interference issues twice before, both when I was recording with MD. In each case the phone was in pretty close proximity to the recorder, like a foot / foot and a half. I've had no issues since going to the R09HR and DR07 from other patrons' phones around me and have made sure to either power mine down during the show or keep it at least three or four feet away from the recorder.

[notlance]

Here is a link that has some good info on reducing RFI.

http://recforums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/t/1894/0/

I have followed this advice to eliminate most cases of RFI.  It is at least a very good starting point.

[rhinowing]

I've had zero problems using the r-09, and I occasionally have my phone turned on and in the same pocket as the r-09

[dlh]

Here is a link that has some good info on reducing RFI.

http://recforums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/t/1894/0/

I have followed this advice to eliminate most cases of RFI.  It is at least a very good starting point.

Yes it is, and thanks for that link.
I've not been in the habit of connecting the housing ground lug to pin 1, but that's my next step.
Supposedly the only downside is if the connector has physical contact with the ground (wet earth, concrete), but it seems that even that issue is debatable.
I'm now wondering why many commercially produced cables don't make this connection.
So what's the downside of connecting the housing? Thoughts, experience?

Thanks
Dave

[dlh]

http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=9095599

[huskerdu]

These cables may help: http://www.cbicables.com/ShieldSeries.htm

[dlh]

I've finished grounding (pin 1 to housing) cables so I'll test that out at my next visit to the same club.
I tried reproducing the interference with my own cell phone before the cable mod, but my phone is a cheapo so no effect.
I'm doing some post on the audio files now so I should have some clips up before too long.
Thanks for all replies; more to come

Dave

[dlh]

 . . . from the original post.
First one is mono; noise is from left channel only.
Second clip is stereo.
SECOND CLIP IS MUCH LOUDER.

[ccage]

Iv'e been hit twice this year and is my first time to have these problems- maybe newer phones/devices are the cause?

One at Umphree's show in ATL I think was self inflicted from my phone laying next to xlr inputs on my R4 - wav file has intermittent sound like radar echo ping for about 10 seconds
Happened again at Wanee Fest this year for Mule Late Night set - i had my phone off but was near several bags and 1 guy testing a lot. 

Like the looks of those shielded cables - thanks for link! 

[coloartist]

Are you all on ATT? I have never had an issue with this with Verizon. I heard that this is a GSM problem.

[Shadow_7]

My stereo is sensitive to it.  I've had days where my cell phone that I virtually never use, but sits next to the tv / stereo permanently plugged in to charge will just beep beep beep all day long.   Plus the usual dot de dot, dot de dot handshake.  Nothing audible is coming from the phone, it's all interference with the OTHER electronics.  And then I have a couple reel to reel tape machines circa 1970's-ish that pick up those noises.  From the next room over.  And ya'all are so quick to put that microwave over right up to your heads.

[kubacheck]

ever since I got some interference on a recording last year, I've started putting my phone in "airplane mode" during shows..... haven't had the problem since, though I guess I couldn't swear that doing that fixed the problem, could just be a coincidence since I used to leave my phone on all the time and never had any issues before that..... and yeah, I have AT&T.... with my old desktop, I used to know I was about to get a phone call because I could hear the interference coming through the computers speakers (even if the phone wasn't in the same room with the computer) a couple of seconds before the phone would start ringing.....

[K.C.]

Are you all on ATT? I have never had an issue with this with Verizon. I heard that this is a GSM problem.

^^^ this....i've heard the same thing...had problems over moe.down weekend last year, for the
first (& only) time, and i've been with AT&T forever. no problems since, but usually turn off my phone
during shows now...

[adrianf74]

I've been reading more and more about GSM interfering with recordings.  It's really a nuisance.

Maybe we need new TS.COM shirts that read: "We didn't pay good money to listen to your cell phone interference... If you need to text OR talk, take it outside." 

I got hit by some interference at a club show recently as well.  It was frustrating because the recording is fantastic.

[mloewen]

I got alot of interference on my Sony Ercison w810i on ATT but not had the problem since on my Droid.

[Shadow_7]

My recording chain is mostly immune to it.  Radio towers, not so much.  But the house board at some of the clubs I've recorded at isn't so they broadcast the handshake over the PA.

[dlh]

After starting this thread and doing a little research, I tied the xlr housings to the shield and haven't had any problems since.  I know that doesn't prove anything, but it was my first step.   I've recorded in that same club three more times without problems, but there weren't as many cell users in the club either. (too many variables)
Now I guess I'll also have to be more careful about what the connectors are touching. (beer soaked floor? taping in the urinals?)

My suspicion is that if there are enough cell users close to my gear, I'll hear it again.
(Just trying to look on the "dark side" with my glass half empty  )

[page]

Are you all on ATT? I have never had an issue with this with Verizon. I heard that this is a GSM problem.

Tmobile here which is GSM as well. Mine wasn't cell phone interference though, something else. I only get cell phone chatter if I get the phone within about 2-3ft of the cap. The cable seems more resistant and takes almost putting the cable next to the phone to get it. I could see getting some while stealthing, but I don't know what did me in the one time I had noise.

[kubacheck]

I've been at a couple of shows where the artists own cell phone caused interference in the PA system.......

[adrianf74]

I've been at a couple of shows where the artists own cell phone caused interference in the PA system.......

I was deafened during the club show I was at a few weeks back when I was hit with some CP interference.  Comparing my recording to the OP's clips, I think it's safe to say that it was the artists own phone that caused it because it was definitely amplified by comparison.

I didn't hear it at the show (but couldn't hear much because of how loud it was).

I think, in the future, I'm going to use airplane mode on my blackberry as well (or just pull the battery).  Then I can say there's less of a chance.

[Seth01]

Just coming back from doing almost 70 recordings in 21 days (gotta love festival season) and using a new deck for me - the Zoom H4n.  Unfortunately a bunch of my recordings were hit with cell phone interference.  This never happened with my R-09 but I'm typically not surrounded by so many text & phone addicts.  I couldn't believe the amount of people that would rather talk on the phone & text than watch/listen to the show.  During that time, I started putting my deck in a water cooling pouch which is basically plasticized aluminum foil and it seemed to have helped.

[disco]

i taped a jazz improv show in a bar in silverton co recently and got hearing aide interference
Obviously not a surprising thing that the HA interferred with the mics but caught me off guard when one of my channels started spiking for no reason. I was running a pair of split CA-14 omnis about 10-13' above the stage. One of the mics was decently close to the stairs which I saw as no problem until an older fella sat next to the mics. Always an experience....

[guysonic]

May have mentioned this somewhere in this thread already, but many times radio interference is caused by mic input connectors being dirty and/or corroded by fingerprint residue. 
Dirty-corroded contacts tend to rectify incoming radio signals to be record able audio interference, so having a pristine contact interface eliminates this from happening in most cases.

Cleaning with pure isopropyl alcohol (for inside of minijacks suggest using a 'non-flavored' between tooth type plak brush), and then treating the metal with DeOxit ProGold enhancer/protector (Caig Labs product) insures these contacts stay fingerprint clean with occasional dry cloth wipe.   

See my tips page at www.sonicstudios.com/tips.htm for more details and suggestions.

[rjp]

i taped a jazz improv show in a bar in silverton co recently and got hearing aide interference

I've run into acoustical interference from hearing aids at classical shows - once, it was so loud that the performers commented about it. Fortunately, a notch filter can usually deal with that little problem.

[Scooter123]

I've not experienced it and usually have my cell phone on (but silented) during taping......

[yates7592]

It happened to me for the first time last week. At least it could have been cell phone interference. My phone was on vibrate mode and in my trouser pocket, my recorder and preamp in my lower inside jacket pocket, probably only 6 inches apart from the phone.
However there is another possibility. The club I was in lies directly beneath Glasgow Central Railway Station. You can hear the trains trundling over before the band comes on. There must be a hell of a lot of signalling and telecommunications cables running along there too, athough you would think they'd be pretty well isolated?
I had cleaned all my contacts prior to the show so im sure that wasnt a problem.
My best bet is that it was the vibrating phone, i did receive a couple of emails during the show.....

[huskerdu]

It happened to me for the first time last week. At least it could have been cell phone interference. My phone was on vibrate mode and in my trouser pocket, my recorder and preamp in my lower inside jacket pocket, probably only 6 inches apart from the phone.
However there is another possibility. The club I was in lies directly beneath Glasgow Central Railway Station. You can hear the trains trundling over before the band comes on. There must be a hell of a lot of signalling and telecommunications cables running along there too, athough you would think they'd be pretty well isolated?
I had cleaned all my contacts prior to the show so im sure that wasnt a problem.
My best bet is that it was the vibrating phone, i did receive a couple of emails during the show.....

Can't it also be a phone belonging to someone a few feet away in the audience (or is there a "safe" distance)?  Even when someone puts a "smart phone" in a silent mode it is still sending and receiving data.

[Shadow_7]

Can't it also be a phone belonging to someone a few feet away in the audience (or is there a "safe" distance)?  Even when someone puts a "smart phone" in a silent mode it is still sending and receiving data.

It gets better with distance, but if you're not immune from it, it's still there.  Just buried deeper in the mix.  For the gear I have that's sensitive to it, 3' or less is VERY noticeable.  If it's a silent or soft part of the show, even at ten yards you can clearly hear it in the recording.  You might have to add +10dB to the levels to make it blatantly obvious, but it's still there.  For the one time that I got the radio station on my gear, I did manage to lessen it enough by mic placement and recorder location, but it's still there on good monitors at a decent volume.  It sounded far worse in the headphones on location, than it ended being in the recording.  But it's still an eternal part of that recording.  However subdued.

[kubacheck]

It happened to me for the first time last week. At least it could have been cell phone interference. My phone was on vibrate mode and in my trouser pocket, my recorder and preamp in my lower inside jacket pocket, probably only 6 inches apart from the phone.
However there is another possibility. The club I was in lies directly beneath Glasgow Central Railway Station. You can hear the trains trundling over before the band comes on. There must be a hell of a lot of signalling and telecommunications cables running along there too, athough you would think they'd be pretty well isolated?
I had cleaned all my contacts prior to the show so im sure that wasnt a problem.
My best bet is that it was the vibrating phone, i did receive a couple of emails during the show.....

Can't it also be a phone belonging to someone a few feet away in the audience (or is there a "safe" distance)?  Even when someone puts a "smart phone" in a silent mode it is still sending and receiving data.

that's why, as I mentioned in an earlier post in this thread, just to be on the safe side, I put my phone in "Airplane mode"..... it's not sending/receiving data when in that mode, but you can still use it for photos/video, or in my case, use the notepad function to keep track of the setlist as the show is going on.......

[jamroom]

It happened to me for the first time last week. At least it could have been cell phone interference. My phone was on vibrate mode and in my trouser pocket, my recorder and preamp in my lower inside jacket pocket, probably only 6 inches apart from the phone.
However there is another possibility. The club I was in lies directly beneath Glasgow Central Railway Station. You can hear the trains trundling over before the band comes on. There must be a hell of a lot of signalling and telecommunications cables running along there too, athough you would think they'd be pretty well isolated?
I had cleaned all my contacts prior to the show so im sure that wasnt a problem.
My best bet is that it was the vibrating phone, i did receive a couple of emails during the show.....

Are you talking about The Arches? I have taped there a couple of times without issue, though we probably have different equipment.

[Fatah Ruark (aka MIKE B)]

Finally got bit by the ol' Cell Phone interference. Had my "small rig" on a table in a bag with the mics pointing out of it. My friend had her AT+T iPhone on the table as well. She got a few texts thoughout the show and the interference came at the same time as the texts...

So moral of the story is...if you or your friend has AT+T either have them turn their phone off or ask them to keep it as far away from your rig as possible. I got more interference in the mic that was close to her phone. The "far" mic was only about 5 inches farther away and had significantly less interference. I think keeping the phone a few feet away may have been enough to prevent the interference.

Real bummer as it was a totally unamplified show so I had to run my levels for the music pretty low to avoid getting overloaded during the clapping. I don't think it would have been as bad at a normal show.

[Fatah Ruark (aka MIKE B)]

Another show with interference. Same rig as above. Starting to wonder if my Verizon Android phone could be the problem, or if there is something else I'm doing to increase the chance of this occurring. Luckily it was minor this time around.

The rig in question is Nevaton MCE400 (tech flexed together) > Tinybox > M10. I keep the Tinybox and M10 in a tiny hip pack. Not sure if the close proximity is causing issues. I need to mess around with this. Wish I had a GDM iPhone to mess with. When I had one of those it was very easy to cause the issue.

Of course it could be unrelated. I recorded a show last week with the same rig and didn't notice anything, but it was a pretty loud show and you might not be able to hear it.

Other problem could have been someone sitting near me. I had the people I came with turn off their AT+T phones. I thought I turned my phone off, but apparently I didn't.

[Fatah Ruark (aka MIKE B)]

The lead from the Nevaton capsule to XLR is probably unbalanced, and that's a long cable run.  You could consider modding the cable to the minimum length required.

It's pretty much at the minimum now. The cables are about 4-5 feet long. Not sure if that is too long, but I could really only cut off about 1 foot max.

I'm guessing the cables are picking up those signals.

Do you know if there is a way to sheild the cables. I have them techflexed together up to the last 8 inches.

[John Willett]

Phones should be off or flight mode while recording - if left on silent they transmit just as much as when fully on.

[harimau]

I was recording a concert with the on-board mics on a Zoom H-4 with the recorder on my lap.

The cellphone (GSM being the dominant protocol in India) of a guy in a seat in front of me (one row ahead) rang.  That interference was recorded by the Zoom.

When he talked on the phone, there was no intereference however.

Clearly, the Zoom recorder with its plastic casing is not shielded for radio-frequency interference.

That was my experience.  YMMV.

[harimau]

Audacity's Click Removal function nicely removed the cell phone interference!

[tree]

I always turn my cell phone off while recording - unless I am patching into someone elses mics/rig. Ive had too many issues with the cell interference and got tired of f'ed up recordings.

[Belexes]

I always turn my cell phone off while recording - unless I am patching into someone elses mics/rig. Ive had too many issues with the cell interference and got tired of f'ed up recordings.

You can still get the problem from neighbors nearby with their cell phones.

Would be nice if venues made everyone coat check the damn things at the door.

[Brian E.]

I picked up some by holding my r09-HR with my cell phone in my pocket.  I would suggest turning off your phone or airplane mode if you are touching your setup.  Other than that, hard to guard against the crowd.

[Brian E.]

Audacity's Click Removal function nicely removed the cell phone interference!

whoa, really?

[newplanet7]

I was wondering if interference could be isolated and removed.
This is one time I got bit. It appears that there is a few different audible noises it makes.
Here is mine and what I believe is the most common sound from cell phones.
http://home.comcast.net/~newplanet7/Mysamples/cellphone.mp3

[F.O.Bean]

So is there a surefire way to KILL CP interference Maybe wrap aluminum foil around our decks

[newplanet7]

Not sure why it happens when it does Bean.
It's happened to me once. Which is not really that big of a deal considering
the amount of times one records. Surely there has been cell phone activity around the rig many times.
WHY IT GETS THROUGH ONE TIME IS A MYSTERY.

[dlh]

So is there a surefire way to KILL CP interference Maybe wrap aluminum foil around our decks

No, this:

[Church-Audio]

So is there a surefire way to KILL CP interference Maybe wrap aluminum foil around our decks

No, this:

Great minds obviously think alike but I think this design would work better due to the flat spots on the hat. It will act more like a stealth fighter and simply bounce the cell phone interference from the hat to some other recording rig!

[dlh]

So is there a surefire way to KILL CP interference Maybe wrap aluminum foil around our decks

No, this:

Great minds obviously think alike but I think this design would work better due to the flat spots on the hat. It will act more like a stealth fighter and simply bounce the cell phone interference from the hat to some other recording rig!

. . . but you might be mistaken for a "pirate"

[newplanet7]

So is there a surefire way to KILL CP interference Maybe wrap aluminum foil around our decks

Ha ha! Awesome fellas!!!!!!!!!