Topic: Newbie Getting Started ? and Thanks

[colinw]

Welcome.

I have had similar experience in the last few months or year getting back into taping, and I went through a similar process of starting small, and ending where I did, which is with a relatively conservative rig, but that offers excellent quality for the money, and I have made some great tapes.

I originally ran a Tascam Dr07mkii recorder, using Church Audio CA14 cardioids or omnis, along with the plain old ugly 9 volt battery box. I made some great tapes to my ears with this rig, both open and stealth. I had bought a relatively inexpensive Impact mic stand and a few cables to run open with.

I then bought a Naiant Tinybox to use as a preamp, and the recordings improved quite a bit using the same mics.

The next purchase was a set of Busman BSC1 mics with cardioid, omni and hypercardioid capsules. This was the last step in my taping rig, giving me a solid rig for almost any situation. All in, I am probably at about 1k for the whole thing.

I also have a Tascam Dr2d which I use for 4 channel recording (2 from a soundboard, and 2 from mics). Great little recorder!

If you have a budget of about $500, for a little more you could probably get a set of CA14 mics, a Naiant Tinybox, and the DR2d, which will allow for 2 or 4 channel recording. People have a huge crush on the Sony machine around here, but I honestly don't see what it would provide to me over the rig I put together, aside from  a longer battery life, which isn't really an issue for me. With the CA14s, your Dr2d, and a battery box you'll be able to pull some great recordings. Add in the Tinybox and you're going to be even happier, but it is a bit of an expense.

Good luck and have fun!

[twatts (pants are so over-rated...)]

http://www.naiant.com

If you buy from Jon, you are buying from a fellow NCer...

Terry

[JusTapin]

Taping in tight quarters can often be a challenge.  I have a Manfrotto 368B stand.  I have the all the legs taped with neon orange gaffers tape, tape the legs down and often afix a small LED flashlight to illuminate the base / area.  It helps to tape with a buddy as well, as they can usually make beer runs and help guard your stand if you have to run to the bathroom.

I also have a Manfrotto 649 clamp and a Manfrotto 009B extension pole for clamping.  I have clamped to bar rails and to my seat before.

I've included links to each.

HTH

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/546528-REG/Manfrotto_368B_368B_Basic_Black_Light.html

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/252212-REG/Manfrotto_649_649_Quick_Action_Release.html

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/546540-REG/Manfrotto_099B_3_Section_Extension_Pole_35.html

The wife usually travels with me but I thinking to gain experience I'm going to have to seek some local small venues to practice capturing and I'm thinking she's going to pass on the opportunity.  haha  I'm going to have to link up with a tape buddy for sure.   Appreciate the links, actually I've been visualizing sitting in my floor seat Row L center for Willie Nelson, with a recorder on my lap and something similar to the extension pole being held between my legs and extended upward when the lights dim as the music starts. LOL

Welcome, from another Team NCer!

Come find us here:  http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=157700.msg2016565#new

We are a fairly large group, and very friendly... 

Terry

Terry, thanks, I'll definitely check out the thread and look forward to meeting some of my fellow carolinian tapers.

I guess it's a matter of choice / preference and the DR2D is less than half the price and if he plans to do any 4 channel (generally SBD / AUD) recordings, it makes sense. I have both and I only have used the DR2D a couple of times (just got it recently), so I haven't become nearly as familiar with it as the M10. So yeah, there are pros and cons for sure. I just prefer the M10 so far for 2 channel recording, but it may just be a learning curve with the DR2D. I know plenty of folks like it and will vouch for it. And having something for less than half the price and I don't think a whole lot of recording quality sacrifice (not any as far as I know but I haven't done any comps)  plus the ability to run 4 chan (two 2 chan sources and have the synched and time aligned) if needed would make it attractive. I just prefer the interface and build quality of the M10 - so at this point, it is my preference for 2 chan recording.

And one reason I'm not high on the DR2D is that it died after less than 2 hours and about half-way through the main act the last time I used it. Was using the same NiMH re-cyclable batteries that I run all the time in the M10 - got a set of 4, so I had 2 in each recorder) - I think the M10 still showed full on the battery meter. I was running SBD + mics, but luckily was running only one source (SBD) into the DR2D (and the feed was pretty bad - would probably not have used it anyway, so it didn't even hack me off like it would have if I had wished I had it).

I bought the DR2D for just this occaision but more than anything, I didn't trust my familiarity with it enough to run both sources into it and didn't have a good feel for it's battery life (guess I found out). I'm glad I didn't run both into the DR2D, because I would have completely missed the second half of the show. That being said, it is on the original SW that it came with (had just gotten it a few days before - when I checked it after this happened it was ver 1.something, not sure what the latest is). I think the early SW versions did have a battery life problem. I haven't gotten around to figuring out if I have the latest SW and if not how to upgrade it... Haven't had another chance at a SBD+AUD since this happened, but something I need to do.

Maybe some folks that have the DR2D and were smart enough to update the SW before they used it can comment on the battery life with the latest SW. And if anyone knows the latest version and how to upgrade to it, I wouldn't mind a PM;)

Again - to the original OP, welcome and I hope this hobby is as rewarding for you as I think it is for most of us. One of many choices you'll have to make. Sounds like you've been reading the right threads to make an informed decision.

But with the DR2D on sale for $90, and the option of going 4 channel, is the M-10 really the way to go?

Well, OK - completely lied. Rather mis-remembered. I paid $149 for the DR2D new. Just found the confirmation email when I bought it a few months ago. Bought it somewhere on Amazon. I did notice in looking that it's "no longer available" at B&H and Sweetwater, so if you want to go that route and you want it new, you should probably grab one now while you can still find one. That usually means they are no longer in production, I think.

Brad - great information and great points.  No worries, I just didn't know if you knew a vendor that had it for $90, I'd have been all over it I think.  But even the $149 doesn't seem bad at all.  I read earlier today the DR2D is out of production so yea, I guess that explains the dropping price and limited availability (another reason I thought of grabbing it).  I'm kind of leaning toward the M10 though, but the price on the 2D is hard to pass up. Thanks for the welcome!

No affiliation, but wanted to throw this out as well.  Here's a pair of Berliner CM33's on eBay for $300.  I've heard some damn good tapes with those little bad dogs.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Berliner-CM33-Stereo-Microphones-in-Wood-Box-Made-for-Neumann-KM-184-/111001984035?pt=US_Pro_Audio_Microphones&hash=item19d83bdc23

Thanks for the heads up!  I'll check those out.  My head has been swimming in mic reading tonight. LOL

Welcome.

I have had similar experience in the last few months or year getting back into taping, and I went through a similar process of starting small, and ending where I did, which is with a relatively conservative rig, but that offers excellent quality for the money, and I have made some great tapes.

I originally ran a Tascam Dr07mkii recorder, using Church Audio CA14 cardioids or omnis, along with the plain old ugly 9 volt battery box. I made some great tapes to my ears with this rig, both open and stealth. I had bought a relatively inexpensive Impact mic stand and a few cables to run open with.

I then bought a Naiant Tinybox to use as a preamp, and the recordings improved quite a bit using the same mics.

The next purchase was a set of Busman BSC1 mics with cardioid, omni and hypercardioid capsules. This was the last step in my taping rig, giving me a solid rig for almost any situation. All in, I am probably at about 1k for the whole thing.

I also have a Tascam Dr2d which I use for 4 channel recording (2 from a soundboard, and 2 from mics). Great little recorder!

If you have a budget of about $500, for a little more you could probably get a set of CA14 mics, a Naiant Tinybox, and the DR2d, which will allow for 2 or 4 channel recording. People have a huge crush on the Sony machine around here, but I honestly don't see what it would provide to me over the rig I put together, aside from  a longer battery life, which isn't really an issue for me. With the CA14s, your Dr2d, and a battery box you'll be able to pull some great recordings. Add in the Tinybox and you're going to be even happier, but it is a bit of an expense.

Good luck and have fun!

Collin - thanks and I appreciate all the information equipment suggestions!  Like you point out, the battery life has been the only real issue I've learned about the DR2D, but it doesn't seem like to significant enough that it would be a show stopper.  The CA14 mics, a Naiant Tinybox are definitely looking pretty good right.  I'm thinking my initial start up budget is going to end up being wishful thoughtfulness on my part. haha  At least I can tell the wife, honey, honest, at least I did start out putting a limit on this project/hobby. LOL  I constantly catch hell because I tend to go overboard with things I get into.

http://www.naiant.com

If you buy from Jon, you are buying from a fellow NCer...

Terry

Terry - Thanks!  I'll definitely have to contact Jon as I work through putting a kit together. 

All of you are definitely amazing and I can't thank you enough for the insight and sharing of information.  I certainly appreciate the warm welcome!

[Marshall7]

One thing to consider if you end up going over budget...if things don't work out and you decide not to stay with taping, if you've bought good gear to begin with you'll have no problem recouping a good portion of the cost in the Yard Sale.

Dennis

[bryonsos]

Welcome to TS and Team NC! Definitely stop by on the team board and say hi.

Church has a January sale going on right now, beware of the lead times as others have mentioned:

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=159385.0

I would consider the CA11s too, I like their sound better. You should listen to some recordings at the Live Music Archive and form your own opinion.

There's also an M10 in the yard sale:

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=160153.0

A battery box + mics from Church + M10 puts you right around your budget, and you'll make nice tapes right out of the gate.

[yltfan]

The DR2D was $90 at Musician's Friend a week ago, but seems to be no longer available at that price.

[JusTapin]

One thing to consider if you end up going over budget...if things don't work out and you decide not to stay with taping, if you've bought good gear to begin with you'll have no problem recouping a good portion of the cost in the Yard Sale.

Dennis

Dennis, great point, thanks!

Welcome to TS and Team NC! Definitely stop by on the team board and say hi.

Church has a January sale going on right now, beware of the lead times as others have mentioned:

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=159385.0

I would consider the CA11s too, I like their sound better. You should listen to some recordings at the Live Music Archive and form your own opinion.

There's also an M10 in the yard sale:

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=160153.0

A battery box + mics from Church + M10 puts you right around your budget, and you'll make nice tapes right out of the gate.

Bryon, thanks and I'll definitely stop by the team board.  Appreciate you taking the time to post the links.  I was looking at the M10 in the YS.  I'm really warming up the Audix mics listed there the more I read about them.  They tape I listened to of them sounds great, although, they're a little over budget, but what momma don't know, won't hurt her. haha

The DR2D was $90 at Musician's Friend a week ago, but seems to be no longer available at that price.

If I can catch the DR2D on sale for that again I'm definitely going to buy it, if for nothing else just to have.  For that price or even the actual $149 everyone is blowing them out at doesn't seem bad at all considering.  Thinking I'm going to go with the M10 to start because it may be a little easier for me to pick up on right out of the box. 

[ravingandrooling]

B&H is moving the M10 (black only) at $199.  It is listed at $249 but once added to your cart price is lower.  Free shipping too.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?Ntt=sony+m10&N=0&InitialSearch=yes&sts=ma&Top+Nav-Search=

[JusTapin]

B&H is moving the M10 (black only) at $199.  It is listed at $249 but once added to your cart price is lower.  Free shipping too.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?Ntt=sony+m10&N=0&InitialSearch=yes&sts=ma&Top+Nav-Search=

Thanks for the heads up!  I've loaded the M10 in the cart and while waiting for the site maintenance to be completed at 6:15, I thought I'd check some other items.  They are offering the D50 for $399!!  Now of course bigger decisions for a newbie who is almost blind from reading so much. LOL  Now I'll have to really consider pulling the trigger on the D50 for that price.  My $500 budget was a starting point and just a mark on the wall after all. haha

So now do I get it over with and just get the D50?

[ravingandrooling]

Personally, I think that microphones are the most important piece of the puzzle.  If it was me, I'd get the M10 and let the mic's be the "budget breaker".  Good luck..

[LikeASong]

In my opinion and experience, most efforts & budget should be spent on a good mics + [preamp/battery box] combo, with the recorder being the less "improvable" step. I don't think your starting tapes will be much better getting a D50 than getting any of the portable recorders that have been suggested before, like the DR2D or the M10 (I suggest the Roland R05, unexpensive and reliable, as an alteranative to those 2 as well), but you would/will have quite a lot less budget left to invest on a good pair of mics and power supply. Just my 2 cents of course   And welcome to the wonderful world of taping!

[JusTapin]

Personally, I think that microphones are the most important piece of the puzzle.  If it was me, I'd get the M10 and let the mic's be the "budget breaker".  Good luck..

In my opinion and experience, most efforts & budget should be spent on a good mics + [preamp/battery box] combo, with the recorder being the less "improvable" step. I don't think your starting tapes will be much better getting a D50 than getting any of the portable recorders that have been suggested before, like the DR2D or the M10 (I suggest the Roland R05, unexpensive and reliable, as an alteranative to those 2 as well), but you would/will have quite a lot less budget left to invest on a good pair of mics and power supply. Just my 2 cents of course   And welcome to the wonderful world of taping!

Guess I just overly excited when I seen the D50 at that price point and wasn't sure if it'd be worth having for down the road as I learn more.  I appreciate both of your replies,  they brought me back to reality and enforced the fact the most important piece of the puzzle at this point are the mics, especially knowing the previously mentioned decks are more than sufficient to capture with.  Thanks!

With the M10 marked down to $199 think I'll just go with it and continue my search for the rest.  Thanks again!

[LikeASong]

Personally, I think that microphones are the most important piece of the puzzle.  If it was me, I'd get the M10 and let the mic's be the "budget breaker".  Good luck..

In my opinion and experience, most efforts & budget should be spent on a good mics + [preamp/battery box] combo, with the recorder being the less "improvable" step. I don't think your starting tapes will be much better getting a D50 than getting any of the portable recorders that have been suggested before, like the DR2D or the M10 (I suggest the Roland R05, unexpensive and reliable, as an alteranative to those 2 as well), but you would/will have quite a lot less budget left to invest on a good pair of mics and power supply. Just my 2 cents of course   And welcome to the wonderful world of taping!

Guess I just overly excited when I seen the D50 at that price point and wasn't sure if it'd be worth having for down the road as I learn more.  I appreciate both of your replies,  they brought me back to reality and enforced the fact the most important piece of the puzzle at this point are the mics, especially knowing the previously mentioned decks are more than sufficient to capture with.  Thanks!

With the M10 marked down to $199 think I'll just go with it and continue my search for the rest.  Thanks again!

Sure the D50 would be worth having down the road, but at this starting point I'd stick with a smaller, simpler and cheaper recording able to handle similar situations than the monster D50 I mean, I started taping with a minidisc (remember those small gizmos? yeah) and didn't notice any improvement in my recordings when I upgraded to a portable recording. I only noticed the improvement when I upgraded my mics! Mic type, quality and placement are the main keys of this hobby in my humble opinion - and the recorder doesn't have anything to do with any of these factors!

[yltfan]

Pardon my ignorance, but why so excited about the D50? I'd think if you were going to spend that much on a recorder, wouldn't you want one with phantom power and xlr inputs, like the pmd661, or the tascam dr100 mkII?

Someone else mentioned the R-05. I use that for lo-pro, and it's great, very reliable. If you can find a good deal on one...

But--as everyone is saying--the mics are more important. Focus on that.

[LikeASong]

Pardon my ignorance, but why so excited about the D50? I'd think if you were going to spend that much on a recorder, wouldn't you want one with phantom power and xlr inputs, like the pmd661, or the tascam dr100 mkII?

Someone else mentioned the R-05. I use that for lo-pro, and it's great, very reliable. If you can find a good deal on one...

But--as everyone is saying--the mics are more important. Focus on that.

Yeah, it was me who mentioned the R05, as reliable as the M10 and quite cheaper, which is something that doesn't seem to worry the opening poster much anyway The D50 is surely a big piece of gear that has quite a lot of appeal to the eye, but there are better recorders in its price range out there as you mention, specially the DR100mkII. Anyway, I think that a basic recorder (aka DR2D, R05, M10) plus a pair of mics and their power supply should be more than enough for a starter rig. Moreover, when you get taping-confidence and/or grow tired of that gear you can add new stuff, but you don't have to substitute anything - you can still use that old gear in particular situations