Topic: Sanken COS-11s -- 1/8" plug for "3-wire easy assembly" (PT) model?

[nardo]

I read through the cable section and to me it seems as if attaching these mics to a 1/8" mini plug should work the same way as for the DPA4061 mics (covered in their own topic). I just want to make sure this is really the case, I wouldn't want to end up damaging the mics/cables, so please share your wisdom and your knowledge if you can. They work within 3-10V so powering them using e.g. a soundpro's battery box should be fine from my understanding.

I'll be getting the COS-11 PT RM model in the coming weeks. The cables are stripped end and are meant for 3-wire easy assembly according to the manufacturer's site (http://www.sanken.ch/Sanken%20Preise%20internet%20euro.pdf). The 3 wires are these:

Shield = ground
White = audio hot
Black = DC power

So if I get a pair of mics, how do I go about combining those into a 1/8" stereo mic plug?

leegeddy said it like this but I'm not positive I am sure what he meant by 'ring', 'tip' and 'sleeve':

right mic + > ring
left mic + > tip
shield for both mics > sleeve

marc

I'm located in Europe and it isn't all that easy to find taper's gear over here which means I'll most probably end up ordering a few things from overseas (e.g. soundpro's). Would this plug be a good choice?
http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/SP-MINI-RTANGLE
If so, do I just unscrew/open it and solder the wires to the corresponding pins? (-, +, power)
I have to admit I never looked 'inside' of a 1/8" plug so excuse me if this was a dumb question.

Slightly off topic, say, I needed to go mics > bbox > ? > XLR-in on a device, are there female stereo 1/8" to dual male XLR cables? Or is it even possible to go that way?

Thanks in advance to anyone who is able to help me out with these questions.

[udovdh]

The Neutriks you refer to are from a German company.
Every decent electronics store carrying parts should have Neutrik.

[nardo]

Thanks for the response, udovdh. I was already lucky in finding an electronics store around here that carries Neutriks. Been asking a couple friends for clarification as to which parts of the 1/8"-plug 'ring', 'sleeve' and 'tip' are referring to and it seems I got it figured out now (English isn't my main language).

I'm still a little confused as to which wire goes where, though. Do DPA miniature mics just come with 2 wires (+ and ground)? My very basic understanding tells me the ground wires of both mics should go to the sleeve, just like with DPA's. But what about the 2 remaining wires? Do both go to 'ring' for the right mic and to the 'tip' for the left one? Hopefully someone can shed some light on this for me.

[udovdh]

I'm still a little confused as to which wire goes where, though. Do DPA miniature mics just come with 2 wires (+ and ground)? My very basic understanding tells me the ground wires of both mics should go to the sleeve, just like with DPA's. But what about the 2 remaining wires? Do both go to 'ring' for the right mic and to the 'tip' for the left one? Hopefully someone can shed some light on this for me.

I understand each mic has wires?
Ground of both goes to the sleeve.
Other wire of one mic goes to tip, remaining wire of other mic goes to ring.

[nardo]

I'm still a little confused as to which wire goes where, though. Do DPA miniature mics just come with 2 wires (+ and ground)? My very basic understanding tells me the ground wires of both mics should go to the sleeve, just like with DPA's. But what about the 2 remaining wires? Do both go to 'ring' for the right mic and to the 'tip' for the left one? Hopefully someone can shed some light on this for me.

I understand each mic has wires?
Ground of both goes to the sleeve.
Other wire of one mic goes to tip, remaining wire of other mic goes to ring.

Yes, each mic has 3 wires (ground, audio hot, dc power). Ground goes to sleeve. So far, so good. Then 'audio hot' of the left mic goes to tip. What about dc power of the same mic? Does it also go to tip?
Including that wikipedia link, so far I could only find information on connecting all of the 3 wires when running 1 mic (mono) in which case the dc power goes to ring.

@ Freelunch: Thank you for the wikipedia link, for some reason I never thought of checking there. Helped me a lot.


I really try my best at understanding your replies, please understand that this is my first time dealing with the topic of plugs and cables and that I'm very thankful for any input. Sorry if the answer is already there and I was just not capable of seeing it.

[it-goes-to-eleven]

Yes, each mic has 3 wires (ground, audio hot, dc power). Ground goes to sleeve. So far, so good. Then 'audio hot' of the left mic goes to tip. What about dc power of the same mic? Does it also go to tip?

Yes.  Each microphone needs power.  A capacitor in the bbox or recording unit will block that DC power from the pre-amp.

[nardo]

Yes, each mic has 3 wires (ground, audio hot, dc power). Ground goes to sleeve. So far, so good. Then 'audio hot' of the left mic goes to tip. What about dc power of the same mic? Does it also go to tip?

Yes.  Each microphone needs power.  A capacitor in the bbox or recording unit will block that DC power from the pre-amp.

Thank you so much, you totally made my day. 

[it-goes-to-eleven]

You're welcome..  But I should point out that this is based on DPA 4061's.  They really are a two wire mic.

If your mics really have a separate power lead, you may need to do something different (like power the black lead).

Test for conductivity between the white and black.  If they're tied together at the capsule, it won't matter which you power, etc.  But if they really are seperate, you're going to need to do something else.

[nardo]

Sorry for having to bump this topic again, I could need a little bit of extra help. As I wrote earlier I want to use my COS-11sPT together with a SoundPro's battery box (the SP-SPSB-1 to be precise but apparently they're all the same when it comes to the connectors) - in the meantime I only did try out a Soundman A3 which can also power AT831/853 etc. mics and has similiar specifications to the SP boxes. My problem was, however, that if you attach both DC power and audio hot of one mic to e.g. tip (or ring, instead) then this would short the circuit. In hindsight that of course makes sense (+ and - ...).

I did receive some more information from Sanken but I just don't have enough knowledge to make much from it, maybe someone can share their knowlege of SP battery boxes with me here before I try and contact Chris at SoundPro's (all I know so far is that audio hot and dc power are on the same connection for their bboxes but I don't know which goes to tip or ring -- also, apparently the polarity is reversed for CSB mics and the COS-11s, if anyone's familiar with them):

Re: COS-11s-PT with 3.5mm TRS:

(1) When you use COS-11sPT with TRS conn , always receiver side
configuration is important.
Because, it is very much depend on the receiver side that what function is
connected with "tip" and "ring" of TRS in receiver side circuit. e.g. Some
connected DC to tip, or some to ring.
Therefore, I can not tell you correct connection till I see the precise
circuit drawing of receiver side.

(2) In case of Lectronics MM400, it is typical "unbalanced" connection with
2P conn.
Tip should be DC(black), shield should be White (with "R") and ground (with
"C").

(3) In case of SONY UWP-X1, "tip" is White, "ring" is Black (DC).

(4) In case of Sennheiser SK 100, 300, 500, "tip" is DC(black), "ring" and
"sleeve" should be shorted and connected with shield(ground). It is very
special. "tip" is microphone signal IN and DC. "ring" is LINE level IN.

(5) It is NOT possible to connect two COS-11s-PT into 1ch (MONO sum).

(6) It is possible to connect two COS-11s-PT into one TRS in case you use a
TRS as a "stereo" (2ch) connector. You can not have MONO summed signal, but
you can get 2 ch signal from one TRS.
You must use it as 2ch connector always.

I'm leaning towards option (2) for some reason, what I want to get is option (6), though. Any help, even the tiniest bit of info, would be greatly appreciated and I thank you in advance for taking the time. I also attached a schematic from Sanken (I do have others for Lectrosonics 2P MM400, Sennheiser SK100 - 500 and Sony UWP-X1 that I could post if anyone can get some use out of them).

P.S. A big thank you to Sanken Customer Service who responded to my e-mail inquiry within a handful of hours, great service (just like SoundProfessionals) and I thought this shouldn't go unnoticed.

[zhianosatch]

unless i'm totally misunderstanding, you want option 6. someone else is better qualified to tell you how to do it, though.
schwilly did his 4061s this way with no problem. i hope you get it worked out!
where are you in europe?

[nardo]

Yeah, not a misunderstanding at all, I want option 6 but the 'howto' seems to be just like option 2 - my distributor also said he *thinks* DC power to tip (ring) and both audio hot and shield to ground would be alright, it just didn't seem right (to me and others) for some reason, guess I was wrong.
As for the 406x, they only have 2 wires per mic whereas the COS-11s come with 3 so I'd rather not mess up by making unqualified assumptions myself, I barely know a thing about these mics. Those tiny cables look so fragile and I wouldn't want to desolder more than once. I just hope they'll be working fine come December 1st since I'm flying up to the ATP festival in England and would love to have them with me.

I'm in Austria, by the way. Nice to see so many familiar faces on here, makes it easier to stop lurking and post more frequently (not sure if we ever did trade, I remember looking at your list quite often in 2002 when I started to get 'serious' [as in, spent a lot of time/money on trades] about collecting, still in contact with people like Karl Frinkle, Per, Jeff Shaw, Galen, Travis S., Ryan A., etc. even though I'm pretty much not trading at all right now, I hope that'll change again soon, haven't updated since May and haven't transferred masters in quite a while now, either).

Oh, and I'm Martin.

[wbrisette]

Yeah, not a misunderstanding at all, I want option 6 but the 'howto' seems to be just like option 2 - my distributor also said he *thinks* DC power to tip (ring) and both audio hot and shield to ground would be alright, it just didn't seem right (to me and others) for some reason, guess I was wrong.

I don't know where you are in Europe, but you might want to contact Everything Audio in the UK. They have a lot of customers who use the Sanken mics, they should be able to provide you with the answers you need.

Wayne

[zhianosatch]

Yeah, not a misunderstanding at all, I want option 6 but the 'howto' seems to be just like option 2 - my distributor also said he *thinks* DC power to tip (ring) and both audio hot and shield to ground would be alright, it just didn't seem right (to me and others) for some reason, guess I was wrong.
As for the 406x, they only have 2 wires per mic whereas the COS-11s come with 3 so I'd rather not mess up by making unqualified assumptions myself, I barely know a thing about these mics. Those tiny cables look so fragile and I wouldn't want to desolder more than once. I just hope they'll be working fine come December 1st since I'm flying up to the ATP festival in England and would love to have them with me.

I'm in Austria, by the way. Nice to see so many familiar faces on here, makes it easier to stop lurking and post more frequently (not sure if we ever did trade, I remember looking at your list quite often in 2002 when I started to get 'serious' [as in, spent a lot of time/money on trades] about collecting, still in contact with people like Karl Frinkle, Per, Jeff Shaw, Galen, Travis S., Ryan A., etc. even though I'm pretty much not trading at all right now, I hope that'll change again soon, haven't updated since May and haven't transferred masters in quite a while now, either).

Oh, and I'm Martin.

hi martin! no, i don't think we traded. i've lost contact with a travis and ryan but the rest are all still around! i'm from california and at present i'm studying in copenhagen. i'll be on this side until july or so of next year...
last weekend i was in munich enjoying the city and eating like a goddamned king. hell of a weekend getaway! one of these days i'll swing through vienna and the other austrian attractions.

[nardo]

Yeah, not a misunderstanding at all, I want option 6 but the 'howto' seems to be just like option 2 - my distributor also said he *thinks* DC power to tip (ring) and both audio hot and shield to ground would be alright, it just didn't seem right (to me and others) for some reason, guess I was wrong.

I don't know where you are in Europe, but you might want to contact Everything Audio in the UK. They have a lot of customers who use the Sanken mics, they should be able to provide you with the answers you need.

Wayne

Thank you, Wayne. Sent them an e-mail, hope to get a useful (to me) response.

hi martin! no, i don't think we traded. i've lost contact with a travis and ryan but the rest are all still around! i'm from california and at present i'm studying in copenhagen. i'll be on this side until july or so of next year...
last weekend i was in munich enjoying the city and eating like a goddamned king. hell of a weekend getaway! one of these days i'll swing through vienna and the other austrian attractions.

Very nice, though, probably not the best time to come visit since it's getting colder daily. If you want to go to a club (or maybe even catch a show) make sure you don't miss out on Flex (http://www.flex.at), they are famous for their acoustics as well as being the club where Kruder & Dorfmeister used to DJ a lot. I think it was even voted to be the best club acoustically in all of Europe recently.

Back on topic, I would still be thankful for any help I could get. Maybe the attached schematic is worth having a look at? The SP boxes have audio hot and dc power on the same connection, apparently, as written earlier.

[nardo]

Ok, turns out the above schematic was for 'Lectronics', for 2ch in 1xTRS the attachment to this post should be fine and I am fairly certain that even myself can understand this one. Wish me luck!

I'll report back when/if it really does work, might be helpful for someone who decides on getting a pair of Sanken's in the future.

[wbrisette]

Cool, where did the schematic come from? (i.e. who drew it up?).

Wayne

[nardo]

Cool, where did the schematic come from? (i.e. who drew it up?).

Wayne

I got this directly from Sanken's amazing customer service. I'm at work right now so I'll hopefully get to do the soldering and test the mics later today.

[nardo]

So the correct way of doing it is just as in the last schematic, all audio hot (white) and shield (gray) wires go to Sleeve (ground), DC power for the left mic to Tip, DC power for the right mic to Ring. Can't wait to test them in the field (and hopefully do a comparison vs. DPA406x mics somewhen soon, too)!

Thanks again for everyone's input in this topic.