Become a Site Supporter and Never see Ads again!

Author Topic: Using a Denecke PS/2 - any advice?  (Read 2787 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline acidjack

  • Site Supporter
  • Trade Count: (37)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *
  • Posts: 5845
  • Gender: Male
Using a Denecke PS/2 - any advice?
« on: April 11, 2010, 12:42:01 PM »
I bought this thing several months ago, but thanks to having a littlebox and an R-44 and not really doing much stealth work, haven't really ever had to use it.  But it seems the time has finally come, and I am going to have to actually get it out and use it.  Rig will be 4021s>PS/2>M10

A few really basic questions:

1. Not having an on/off switch, I realize the unit is ON once a battery is in it.  How much is that battery draining once you put it in there?  That is, if you put the batts in a couple of hours before the show, have you lost a couple hours of battery life?  I'm assuming the answer is yes, but I hope not.

2. I've read the other threads on here of folks complaining about insufficient levels, since the PS/2 is merely a phantom box and not a pre.  Therefore, is it correct to assume that I should plug directly into the Sony's mic input on LOW power rather than what I normally do, which of course is run line-in?  Again, I assume the answer is yes, but thought I would ask (and it's kind of hard to test that fact at home).

Any other thoughts/tips/tricks appreciated.  I'm assuming this thing will give me enough juice with a new 9v to get at least~3hrs of music, right?
Mics: Schoeps MK4V, MK41V, MK5, MK22> CMC6, KCY 250/5, KC5, NBob; MBHO MBP603/KA200N, AT 3031, DPA 4061 w/ d:vice, Naiant X-X, AT 853c, shotgun, Nak300
Pres/Power: Aerco MP2, tinybox v2  [KCY], CA-UBB
Decks: Sound Devices MixPre 6, Zoom F8, M10, D50

My recordings on nyctaper.com: http://www.nyctaper.com/?tag=acidjack | LMA: http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/acidjack | twitter: http://www.twitter.com/acidjacknyc | Soundcloud: https://soundcloud.com/acidjacknyc

Offline mattmiller

  • Trade Count: (20)
  • Taperssection All-Star
  • ****
  • Posts: 1454
  • Gender: Male
Re: Using a Denecke PS/2 - any advice?
« Reply #1 on: April 11, 2010, 01:30:29 PM »
I don't own one of these, but used a borrowed one with a borrowed D50 for a few shows and always made sure to wait until the last minute to pop in the battery.  Whether that was overly cautious, I don't know.  I also used it line in, but the dial was cranked to the max (or close to it) to get sufficient levels.  I was working under the philosophy (and the owner's recommendation) that if you can get sufficient levels line-in, do so. 
Mics: Neumann KM100 (x4), AK40 (x2), AK50 (x2)
Pre: Lunatec V3
Recorders: Tascam DR-680, Tascam HD-P2 (x2), Sony PCM-M10

Offline junkyardt

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Taperssection All-Star
  • ****
  • Posts: 1258
  • Gender: Male
Re: Using a Denecke PS/2 - any advice?
« Reply #2 on: April 11, 2010, 03:11:30 PM »
i'm no expert, but i think the answers to your questions may depend more on your 4021s than on the PS-2? i was the guy matt is referring to, and it's my feeling (though others should feel free to correct me if i'm wrong, of course) that the low levels were due to using lower sensitivity mics. i know personally i run Sound Pros AT u853s which have the ultra-low sensitivity mod for the loudest possible taping. what is the sensitivity like on the 4021s? but surely it's also possible that the PS-2 and/or the D50 contributed to the low levels in some way as well i suppose.

also, the battery issue will, i believe, depend on how much juice the 4021s use. being high-end mics, i'm gonna guess they require quite a bit more power than my mics? as a rule of thumb i know i can safely get 2 full-length shows out of one new 9V before i need to be concerned about it. after that, i'll check it with a battery tester and possibly only use it again for a shorter opening set, if at all. any more use than that and you're playing with fire, just asking for the battery to run out on you mid-show. if the 4021s are power-hungry mics you may want to use a fresh 9V for each show. but i would think you'd be able to safely get at least one full show out of a new 9V.

and yeah, i'd recommend against putting the battery in well in advance and letting it run for hours. try to put it in as close to the show time as possible. what you can also do, i believe, though i don't do this personally, is to store the 9V by putting it in the PS-2 backwards. that way it supposedly doesn't deplete any of the power, and you can just pop it out and flip it around when you need to.

Offline DSatz

  • Site Supporter
  • Trade Count: (35)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *
  • Posts: 3349
  • Gender: Male
Re: Using a Denecke PS/2 - any advice?
« Reply #3 on: April 11, 2010, 06:11:06 PM »
acidjack, any device that runs on 9 VDC and delivers 48 VDC at its outputs must be using a DC converter internally. Those critters contain oscillators that generate AC, usually at some fundamental frequency that's reasonably far above the audible range. Most often these days, that oscillator then feeds a "ladder" of diodes and capacitors which rectify and smooth the AC at a higher peak voltage than the input--so in effect, you get a kind of "DC voltage multiplier" effect. But oscillators are never perfectly efficient--there are always some energy losses in their operation. As a result, running this supply with no microphones connected will definitely run down your battery. The only question is how fast.

According to DPA's Web site, your microphones draw 2.6 mA apiece. But how long a battery supply will last with a given load is nearly impossible to calculate directly. So to get a reliable answer to your question about the 3-hour concert, I'd suggest that you invest the cost of a 9-Volt battery of the type you're thinking of using. Plug both your mikes into your supply at home, but before you put the battery in, loosen the shell of the XLR plug from one of your mikes so that you can measure the DC voltage between (say) pin 2 and pin 1. (You could also measure between pin 3 and pin 1, but not between pin 2 and pin 3--they should always be at the same DC voltage.)

Put the battery in and observe the voltage when the battery is fresh (with a 2.6 mA current draw, you should see ca. 39 Volts). Then you might wait and see how long it takes for the "low battery" light to come on. (With both of my PS-2s it comes on well before it's necessary to change the battery. I guess it's better that way than the opposite.) You might check the voltage again then, leaving the mikes connected--it probably won't be much lower than it was initially. Then recheck the voltage periodically for a while, and see whether you get to anything near 3 hours with the voltage still in range, i.e. not dropping more than about 4 Volts from what it was when you started. That should tell you what you need to know.

Two notes: One is that I really did mean that the supply voltage should be around 39 VDC with a fresh battery and a microphone connected to each input, even though this is a 48-Volt supply. Phantom powering is a little funny that way; the voltage is specified with no microphone connected. As soon as a microphone is connected, current is drawn through the matched pair of supply resistors that each input channel has--and that causes a voltage drop across the resistors which is proportional to the current being drawn. In this case, Ohm's Law tells you to expect 1.3 mA (per resistor) times 6.8 kOhms (the value of each resistor) for a voltage drop of 8.8 Volts. Thus the "ca. 39 Volts" figure.

The other note: The outputs of your microphones, and of the PS-2, are balanced while the mike inputs of your M-10 are unbalanced. That's always a touchy situation, because only the manufacturer of the microphone (or someone else who knows its specific output circuitry exactly) can tell you how you should wire an adapter to unbalance the signals from that type of microphone. It's different with different manufacturers, and sometimes even with different models from the same manufacturer. Don't let anyone ever tell you that there's a standard wiring scheme for doing this, because there's not. Doing it the wrong way (even if that happens to be the right way for some other microphone) can cause all sorts of problems.

Unfortunately DPA's information PDF for this microphone doesn't say how to wire it for unbalanced operation, so I think you'll have to contact them directly and ask. I really, really don't advise taking other tapers' word for how this should be done (I can explain why I'm saying that if you want me to, but I've taken up too much space here already with this message); get the information from the horse's mouth.

--best regards
« Last Edit: April 11, 2010, 08:31:59 PM by DSatz »
music > microphones > a recorder of some sort

Offline dean

  • Akustische u. Kino-Geräte!!!!
  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • Posts: 9057
  • Gender: Male
  • The Dude abides...
Re: Using a Denecke PS/2 - any advice?
« Reply #4 on: April 12, 2010, 01:14:37 AM »
Bottom line is the answer to both of your questions is "yes".  Use one frequently, including 2x this weekend.  Re: battery life, keep the battery in your pocket until just before the show for maximum usage.  When I got the sucker I recall reading that it would last up to 9 hours.  I've never even considered testing it, but I will record a full 2-3 hour gig with it without fear.
Light weight: Sound Pro AT 831 or MBHO's > tinybox > D7 or Samson PM4's > Denecke PS-2 > D7
Slutty weight:  [MBHO MBP 603A + (KA100LK/KA200N/KA500HN)] and/or [AKG C 414 b xls (omni/sub-card/card/hyp/8)]  > Hi Ho Silver xlr's/other xlr's > Oade T & W Mod R-4 or UA-5 (BM2p+ mod.) or JB3 or D7

http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/deanlambrecht

 

RSS | Mobile
Page created in 0.072 seconds with 33 queries.
© 2002-2024 Taperssection.com
Powered by SMF