Topic: B&W 802 Matrix?

[Gutbucket]

Only information on these older speakers that I could find at the B&W website is this PDF spec sheet.  I've an opportunity to pick up a pair from a friend for a good price.  These would go in the living room as my main system, which is also where I edit recordings.  They would replace a pair of Infinity RS4Bs that I've had for over 20 years.  They've been great speakers, but I do plan on upgrading my playback both for enjoyment and to make more accurate sonic editing decisions, though I hadn't planned to do so until I remodeled a major portion of the house.  Visually, the B&W 802 Matrix are honestly rather unattractive, but great sound could trump that. I have a very understanding female co-habitant, but these things aren't nearly as attractive as the later Nautilus version whose smooth, spherical midrange enclosure replaced the robotic octagonal box of the Matrix.

Any experienced word on these, or thoughts in general?

[bhadella]

Only information on these older speakers that I could find at the B&W website is this PDF spec sheet.  I've an opportunity to pick up a pair from a friend for a good price.  These would go in the living room as my main system, which is also where I edit recordings.  They would replace a pair of Infinity RS4Bs that I've had for over 20 years.  They've been great speakers, but I do plan on upgrading my playback both for enjoyment and to make more accurate sonic editing decisions, though I hadn't planned to do so until I remodeled a major portion of the house.  Visually, the B&W 802 Matrix are honestly rather unattractive, but great sound could trump that. I have a very understanding female co-habitant, but these things aren't nearly as attractive as the later Nautilus version whose smooth, spherical midrange enclosure replaced the robotic octagonal box of the Matrix.

Any experienced word on these, or thoughts in general?

I have a set of Matrix 803 S2 that I picked up locally back when we lived in Sarasota.

http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,50780.0.html

They sound fabulous.  I'm thrilled with mine.   They are piano white but sound great.   I do have an issue with them.  Previous owner put in "upgraded" crossovers that may have created a tweeter failure before I bought them.   Mine came with a new tweeter but it failed after 3 years of service.   I need to get the crossover looked at.....hmmmm.....sounds like this is just the motivation to get working on it and then move my 601s back to the secondary listening area.   

[Tim]

I don't think they're that ugly. They don't look as slick as the latter 802's but they look better than every pair of Wilson's I've ever seen

Happy B&W owner here, though my speakers are very pedestrian next to those. I bet you'd really dig them

[Lil Kim Jong-Il]

I've had the opportunity to listen to the 801 Matrix on a couple of occasions and they sounded fantastic.  I've heard the 801N and 803N of the new line and liked them.  Pretty much all of the B&W floor standing speakers I've heard sound good. 

I think that the 802s would be a pretty significant upgrade from the RS4s you have now.  I have a pair of RS6s and the 803Ns are clearly better with tighter bass and clarity.  The RS6 EMITs can be bright but I found the 803Ns a little bright too.  I've heard the RS6s disappear but it's not always easy to achieve that.  In the settings where I've heard the B&W speakers, they seem to be more forgiving and easier to achieve a defined image.

Just check them carefully to make sure that the drivers are in good shape with the rubber suspensions not cracked or coming apart.

[Gutbucket]

Thanks for the input. I think I'll jump on these.  I do like the EMIT tweets and the midrange dome on those older Infinitys. The midrange up on the RS4B is sweet, but the lower mid's down although adequate in quantity was never their strong point with them.  That region is what first struck me hearing the 802s a few years back elsewhere, very solid, strong and resonance free.

Need to keep an eye out for a 3rd one now that I'm been recording in surround, but better amplification will be next I'm sure.

[Wiggler]

I have a pair of matrix 802 series 3 that I have been using on a secondary system, my television speakers.
In the past they have been my primary music system speakers prior to the purchase of my Egglestonworks Andra II speakers.
I have powered the 802s with several different amps in the past and have learned they really perform best with high powered amps.
The 802s are a 4 ohm nominal impedance speaker and really need lots of power to make them shine.
The manual indicates they can be powered with 50 to 600 watts. Just for fun I once hooked them up to my Cary sli 80 watt tube amp and that did not even come close to supplying enough juice for my requirements.  I see the PDF in your post has completely different specifications than my manual for the series 3.
To my ears they are not a neutral speaker in comparison to the Andras they are very colored similar to comparing Schoeps to Dpa.
I prefer colored mics for music recording as opposed to the Dpa sound which I feel are better suited for broadcast recording such as NPR interviews.
I like the 802s very much and have no plans to get rid of them they are great speakers when paired with a suitable amp.
 

[Gutbucket]

Interesting, thanks.  I have heard that the 802s work best with a quality, high current amp.  That PDF is just what I found on the B&W site - I'm not certain which series these speakers are yet, but i'm assuming they are series 2 or 3.  I tend to lean more towards DPA clarity on the mic side of the chain, recording primarily acoustic based music.  I'm primarily looking for a revealing monitor with plenty of headroom to help me make good decisions when mastering my live recordings.

I'm not familiar with the Egglestonworks line, though I know Bob Ludwig uses them.

Tim, spot on with the Wilson fuggly factor. These are growing on me visually already in my minds eye.  Looking forward to these.

[Wiggler]

These are the specifications for the Matrix 802 series 3

Frequency range 22Hz to 25kHz (-6dp points)

Frequency response 27Hz to 20kHz + or - 2db (free field)

Bass loading    Sixth-order Butterworth
                     alignment, 25Hz cut off


Dispersion      20HZ to 15kHz
                    Vertical + or - over 10 degree arc
                    Horizontal +0  -3db over 60 degree arc

Sensitivity      90db (2.83V, 1m)

Distortion       for 95db at 1m
                    Second harmonic
                    <1.o%  (20Hz to 20kHz)
                    Third harmonic
                    <1.0% (20Hz to 20Khz)

Impedance     Nominal 4 ohm

Power Handling   50w to 600w

Crossover network    Forth-order Butterworth
                             acoustic response crossover
                             frequencies 400Hz and 3 kHz

Drive units              Two 180mm high power polymer cone bass
                             One 126mm Kevlar cone midrange
                             One 26mm metal dome high frequency

Dimensions              Height 1040mm 41 in
                             Width  300mm   11.75 in
                             Depth  370mm   14.5 in

Weight                    32kg  70lbs

[sygdwm]

egglestons are the the cats fucking ass, but those b&w's will sound awesome.


http://www.egglestonworks.com/

[Gutbucket]

More on these..
They are series 802 Matrix series 2 [edit- series 3].  I'm going to have the opportunity to set them up and listen in my room before committing, just to make certain.  That way I can better compare to my current system. But I'm relatively certain I'll go with them. 

Next question concerns appropriate amplification.  I've heard this very pair of speakers a few times in the past, in three different rooms, all fleetingly so I've initial impressions only. They performed very nicely when bi-amped with a pair of Bryston 4Bs or another pair of similar quality amps I can't recall, but sounded dull and lifeless powered by a 200wpc Sony integrated.  Some of that may be the room and setup, but I have heard from others that quality amplification really pays with these speakers.

Appropriate amp suggestions? I'm considering building a couple Hypex based kits.  If I was to do so, is there any advantage to building a single bridged monoblock for each speaker vs building two equivalent stereo amps and bi-amping? I'll likely put an amp directly behind each speaker, so if I bi-amp I'd use one stereo amp for left and another for right, in a high/low configuration).

[Gutbucket]

Brought them over last night, tweaked the setup a bit and stayed up way too late listening.  I think these are keepers in my room.  The treble seemed not as airy and extended as the Infinity EMITs at first (the strong suit of the Infinitys IMO), but after a while I ceased to notice anything lacking there, instead it just doesn't stand out and grab attention. There is certainly more vertical illumination above the listening plane from the tweets. The midrange is what grabbed me- especially clear & resolving and seems much better integrated with the bass region.  I really like that aspect.  They do need proper positioning for good imaging and the swiveling mid/tweeter housing makes dialing that in easier.  I need to play around with setting them up more in depth and think about more power to drive them at louder levels, but I'm very pleased so far.  They look quite nice in the room too.  I'll find out what the fairer sex thinks when gets home tonight.

[Gutbucket]

Update just in case anyone cares to hear..  I'm really loving these now listening at low to medium levels within the comfortable limits of the amp I'm using- great realism and the dynamics are much improved. My old RS4B's sound no where close in comparison.  Did a test playback last night of a very good recent (L,R,C,B) 4-channel surround recording I'd made recently but have not edited.  Used one of the RS4Bs as a center channel and pair of old Yamaha's as mono surrounds.  I used the 4-channel playback EQ and level controls on the R44 to balance & dial it in and sat there smiling ear to ear.  My GF got home and walked in the front door a while later and said, "it sounds like they are right here in the living room when walking up the driveway"

I've found a matching second pair that I've picked up which are now in route.  I was looking for a single for use as a center channel but that's seems a stretch, so instead I'll have a spare that I'll try using as a center rear surround in a 6-channel setup.  After amps I'll look at upgrading the side surrounds.

Concerning amps, I've been reading good things about the Hypex based kits on some DIY and mastering forums.  I'm thinking one UCD400 module per speaker should do it.  I'd like to build them as individual monoblocks but that would get too costly, so I'm considering a 3 channel amp for the fronts (possibly this diycable.com kit) or maybe one big multi-channel amp for the whole system along the lines of their 5 channel version.

[Gutbucket]

Found B&W manuals & spec sheets freely available in PDF format here.

[Wiggler]

Good to hear that you like them.
I don't use them but have been told that the Sound Anchor stands make a good investment for these speakers.
For me the power needed isn't so much about volume as it is about getting the drivers to fire faster at all volume levels.
With the lower power amps they sounded muddy and sluggish and lacked depth in the sound field.

[Gutbucket]

The existing pair I have now have the Sound Anchor stands, the pair in route do not.  I plan on building some nice matching stone or cast concrete plinths for all of them.  It will be interesting to see if I hear a difference with the stands vs other ways of getting the tweeters up to ear height.

[bhadella]

Concerning amps, I've been reading good things about the Hypex based kits on some DIY and mastering forums.  I'm thinking one UCD400 module per speaker should do it.  I'd like to build them as individual monoblocks but that would get too costly, so I'm considering a 3 channel amp for the fronts (possibly this diycable.com kit) or maybe one big multi-channel amp for the whole system along the lines of their 5 channel version.

Interesting, I've haven't kept up on digital amps in a while (hugs his cheap Sony STR-DA3000ES digital amp) but didn't know that that digital amps without digi-in were flourishing.  What are you planning on using as DAC and pre infront.

The existing pair I have now have the Sound Anchor stands, the pair in route do not.  I plan on building some nice matching stone or cast concrete plinths for all of them.  It will be interesting to see if I hear a difference with the stands vs other ways of getting the tweeters up to ear height.

What I really like about the Sound Anchors is the ability to slightly tilt the plane of the speakers up to increase the vertical image.   After having them I'm surprised that this kind of adjustment isn't something more people would like. 

[Gutbucket]

Technically they aren't actually digital amps but use an analog class D scheme. Here's an interesting article by Hypex designer Bruno Putzeys titled "All Amplifiers Are Analogue But Some Amplifiers Are More Analogue Than Others"

Currently I'm using a receiver very similar to yours, a Panasonic XR-55.  Very nice sounding for the price,
it's treated me well.

Not sure yet what I'll do upstream.  I really like the Mytek converters, but a Mytek multi-channel setup gets pricey.  Considering looking a used Lexicon MC series surround controller.  I'll be using some form of computer source playback so I'll probably need a soundcard > multi-channel DAC setup.  I don't think there are any networkable media devices that support unencoded multi-channel.  Most are stereo + digital pass through of DTS/Dolby encoded surround at best.

I do plan on designing the bases to allow some tilt with threaded studs to the exiting mounting points on the speakers.