Topic: Mac playback?

[lastubbe]

Just curious what people like for playing back on Mac's?  I used Winamp for years on my PC's, but I can't quite find a comparable program for my Macbook.  I have tried a couple of the free programs, but I haven't fell in love with anything.  I am currently using Cog, and Itunes for my ipod.

Also, what are the preferred/commonly used programs for transferring/converting?  I recently downloaded Audacity.

Thanks much in advance.

I am really hoping to find something good, even if I have to pay for it.

-Lenny

[Patrick]

Just curious what people like for playing back on Mac's?  I used Winamp for years on my PC's, but I can't quite find a comparable program for my Macbook.  I have tried a couple of the free programs, but I haven't fell in love with anything.  I am currently using Cog, and Itunes for my ipod.

Also, what are the preferred/commonly used programs for transferring/converting?  I recently downloaded Audacity.

Thanks much in advance.

I am really hoping to find something good, even if I have to pay for it.

-Lenny

I use a combination of Play, Cog, iTunes, and VLC (obviously for video) for playback into the rest of my system.  Depending on what kinds of files I am working with determines the program that get used

For converting, look no further than xACT. 

[setboy]

xACT is great. I am using Wave editor right now for editing. it's good for almost everything but tracking, I use songbird for playing back things like flac.

[lastubbe]

Thank you for the feedback!

In terms of playback, is there anything with a little more features than Cog/Songbird?  Something similar to Winamp that has an equalizer or options to give the output a little more punch or flexibility going out of the computer?

[Tim]

fwiw - A lot of the HiFi guys use Itunes. I listened to a $50,000+ system that was using itunes and a Ayre usb dac.

I know people love to hate on itunes but thought I'd at least share that

[lastubbe]

I actually like Itunes alot.  The only problem is it won't play shn's for me.  It will play flac with a quick conversion using fluke, but for shn it wants to go for a wav conversion.  Cog just plays the straight data files no questions asked.

I guess I was just use to playing with Winamp for so many years, and while Mac has such amazing software on so many levels, I am puzzled as to why I cannot find anything as good.

Thanks.

[page]

Another vote for Songbird. I asked in the team thread a couple days ago for gapless playback. Tried a couple of things and found songbird to have the least number of deficiencies.

I decode/encode on the command line, and do my burning with Simply Burns (hat tip goes to greenone for the recommendation, it *will* do gapless burning correctly).

wav editing is all done in Audacity.

Notice my trend of cheap/free software. ymmv. Best of luck.

[JackHenry]

Wave editor right now for editing. it's good for almost everything but tracking

Why don't you like it for tracking??

[setboy]

Wave editor right now for editing. it's good for almost everything but tracking

Why don't you like it for tracking??

it's a pain in the ass. I went from cdwav, which is so, so much better than this. You need to pull out two markers to show where the start and end of the tarck will be. For me it makes thing take much longer. Maybe I just suck at. Who knows.

[printguy]

Has anyone used Fission for tracking?

http://rogueamoeba.com/fission/

It's my software of choice.

[setboy]

Has anyone used Fission for tracking?

http://rogueamoeba.com/fission/

It's my software of choice.

I have been lookng in to this.

[Tim]

I actually like Itunes alot.  The only problem is it won't play shn's for me. 

yeah I should have been more clear, some people hate on itunes and for others its just doesn't meet their needs. Good point and one that isn't considered by many "hifi" guys.

[Patrick]

Has anyone used Fission for tracking?

http://rogueamoeba.com/fission/

It's my software of choice.

Yeah, I use it.  I liked it a lot better when I first bought it.  Now it's just clumsy and not very professional.  But it still gets the job done.  Better than tracking with a full blown DAW.

[J.T.L]

http://www.voxapp.net/

a playback app that has bells and whistles

[lastubbe]

http://www.voxapp.net/

a playback app that has bells and whistles

Very nice!  Thank you.  I like this better than Cog or Songbird.

Is there a plugin for shn playback?

Thank you.

[Chris K]

have tried cog, play, songbird, itunes, but i always come back to macamp.

no longer supported but the files still exist here:

http://www.arcticlounge.com/maltx/

I use the beta version. plays shn and flac.

[lastubbe]

have tried cog, play, songbird, itunes, but i always come back to macamp.

no longer supported but the files still exist here:

http://www.arcticlounge.com/maltx/

I use the beta version. plays shn and flac.

When I load up macamp it's now asking for payment.  Is it still pay for if it's not supported?

[Chris K]

When I load up macamp it's now asking for payment.  Is it still pay for if it's not supported?

no payment required...go to the screenshot link. its a screenshot of the last entry by the creator of macamp and he left all the registration codes.

[Brian E.]

I'm planning to do our own music for our wedding in Oct.  I'm going to hook up my macbook pro to their sound system with optical.  Hope that works well.  I'll use iTunes with crossfade on.

[nic]

Cog is what I use for live shows as it supports shn/flac but it is not gapless playback

[lastubbe]

I have experimented with most mentioned in this thread... and I am down to:

Vox for flac... I just love the format and features.  Nothing like playing with an eq as each recording has a personality of its own.

MacAmp lite for shn or flac... seems good.

Itunes for iPod.

Thank you all for the great feedback.  Please share anything new that comes down the line.

[printguy]

Cog is what I use for live shows as it supports shn/flac but it is not gapless playback

That's odd - FLACs playback gapless in my version of Cog.

[lastubbe]

Yep, actually, my Cog is gapless playback as well.  Good smooth program, I just like the extra features with Vox.

[nic]

Cog is what I use for live shows as it supports shn/flac but it is not gapless playback

That's odd - FLACs playback gapless in my version of Cog.

flac and shn is gapless, mp3 isnt... I forgot to specify that.
thanks,

[moellenium]

After a ton of experimenting, I finally settled on iTunes for all of my playback.  I just convert my flacs to apple lossless (which supports up to 24/96) using XLD, which is free and pretty fast if you're working on an intel mac.  You still have to convert shn to wav or aif first, but I'm seeing fewer and fewer new shows in shn now.  I create a play list for each show and use folders for each band.  You can export each playlist as a txt file, so I if my system crashes and I have to re-import my files, I can just import the txt files and my play lists will be restored.  With playlists, I can just select which shows I want on my ipod by checking or unchecking the boxes next to the playlist on the ipod menu.

[lastubbe]

Interesting.  Thanks for sharing.

I've been using Itunes just for syncing with my IPod.

So do you keep your data files?  Do you ever playback flac or shn, or you're doing all playback in apple lossless through Itunes and your IPod?

[moellenium]

Interesting.  Thanks for sharing.

I've been using Itunes just for syncing with my IPod.

So do you keep your data files?  Do you ever playback flac or shn, or you're doing all playback in apple lossless through Itunes and your IPod?

I keep the data files that I share/download as flacs and shns on an off-line drive.  I do this more for sharing purposes, since most sites like etree only allow trading in flac.  I keep a few other off-line drives for backing up my apple lossless collection.  I do all of my playback in iTunes, which has taken a little time to set up, but I really prefer all of my music in one place for playback. 

The only thing that I do not use iTunes for is importing CDs, since the iTunes encoder is not bit accurate.  I use xAct for the rip, encode to apple lossless and then transfer to iTunes.

[lastubbe]

Interesting.  Thanks for sharing.

I've been using Itunes just for syncing with my IPod.

So do you keep your data files?  Do you ever playback flac or shn, or you're doing all playback in apple lossless through Itunes and your IPod?

I keep the data files that I share/download as flacs and shns on an off-line drive.  I do this more for sharing purposes, since most sites like etree only allow trading in flac.  I keep a few other off-line drives for backing up my apple lossless collection.  I do all of my playback in iTunes, which has taken a little time to set up, but I really prefer all of my music in one place for playback. 

The only thing that I do not use iTunes for is importing CDs, since the iTunes encoder is not bit accurate.  I use xAct for the rip, encode to apple lossless and then transfer to iTunes.

I haven't messed with Apple lossless yet, but I keep hearing more and more people prefer it.

All of my data files as well are stores on externals (I use WD's 2 & 4 tb's), and my listening is data files now using Vox and MacAmp.

[thegreatgumbino]

have tried cog, play, songbird, itunes, but i always come back to macamp.

no longer supported but the files still exist here:

http://www.arcticlounge.com/maltx/

I use the beta version. plays shn and flac.

Alright, stupid question here.  I want to try out macamp, so I successfully installed it from Chris's link.  I can't figure out how to add the Flac & Shn plugins on OS X 10.6.2

The readme file for the plugin says the following:

Installation
To install the plugin, just follow these steps:
1) Show Info (in the File menu) on MacAmp Lite in the Finder.
2) Choose the Plugins item from the pulldown menu.
3) Click the "Add..." button and choose the Shorten plugin.

However, on OS X 10.6.2, the option is "File > Get Info", and I don't see any options for adding plugins.  Anyone know how to do this?

[moellenium]

Interesting.  Thanks for sharing.

I've been using Itunes just for syncing with my IPod.

So do you keep your data files?  Do you ever playback flac or shn, or you're doing all playback in apple lossless through Itunes and your IPod?

I keep the data files that I share/download as flacs and shns on an off-line drive.  I do this more for sharing purposes, since most sites like etree only allow trading in flac.  I keep a few other off-line drives for backing up my apple lossless collection.  I do all of my playback in iTunes, which has taken a little time to set up, but I really prefer all of my music in one place for playback. 

The only thing that I do not use iTunes for is importing CDs, since the iTunes encoder is not bit accurate.  I use xAct for the rip, encode to apple lossless and then transfer to iTunes.

I haven't messed with Apple lossless yet, but I keep hearing more and more people prefer it.

All of my data files as well are stores on externals (I use WD's 2 & 4 tb's), and my listening is data files now using Vox and MacAmp.

For my actual playback setup, I splurged and bought three 1 TB G-drives.  They're whispers quiet and they are built like tanks.  Also, I use firewire for everything, so that I can daisy chain.

[lastubbe]

Interesting.  Thanks for sharing.

I've been using Itunes just for syncing with my IPod.

So do you keep your data files?  Do you ever playback flac or shn, or you're doing all playback in apple lossless through Itunes and your IPod?

I keep the data files that I share/download as flacs and shns on an off-line drive.  I do this more for sharing purposes, since most sites like etree only allow trading in flac.  I keep a few other off-line drives for backing up my apple lossless collection.  I do all of my playback in iTunes, which has taken a little time to set up, but I really prefer all of my music in one place for playback. 

The only thing that I do not use iTunes for is importing CDs, since the iTunes encoder is not bit accurate.  I use xAct for the rip, encode to apple lossless and then transfer to iTunes.

I haven't messed with Apple lossless yet, but I keep hearing more and more people prefer it.

All of my data files as well are stores on externals (I use WD's 2 & 4 tb's), and my listening is data files now using Vox and MacAmp.

For my actual playback setup, I splurged and bought three 1 TB G-drives.  They're whispers quiet and they are built like tanks.  Also, I use firewire for everything, so that I can daisy chain.

Right on.  That's exactly what I'm doing as well.  I'm using 2 WD MyBooks, a 2 TB and 4 TB daisychained with firewire.  The drives make absolutely no noise, neither does my Macbook.  Transferred 1 TB once and didn't hear a thing.

[thegreatgumbino]

The only thing that I do not use iTunes for is importing CDs, since the iTunes encoder is not bit accurate.  I use xAct for the rip, encode to apple lossless and then transfer to iTunes.

I recognize edit: you think the iTunes Apple Lossless encoder is not bit perfect.  I take it xAct's encoder is bit perfect?  Can you speak to what type of compression savings you're getting with xAct's AL versus just keeping Wav's? 

[moellenium]

The only thing that I do not use iTunes for is importing CDs, since the iTunes encoder is not bit accurate.  I use xAct for the rip, encode to apple lossless and then transfer to iTunes.

I recognize the iTunes Apple Lossless encoder is not bit perfect.  I take it xAct's encoder is bit perfect?  Can you speak to what type of compression savings you're getting with xAct's AL versus just keeping Wav's?

The apple lossless encoder in iTunes works perfectly if you are encoding a file (i.e. wav or aif, I have done multiple phase tests to check this out), the issue that I have with iTunes is the actual ripping of CDs to any format.  For the sake of speed, Itunes does not do an error check against the original CD image after it has imported a disc.  When you import a CD with xAct, it takes longer than iTunes, but the software repeatedly checks the files that it is creating against the physical disk image to check for and correct errors, resulting in a bit accurate import.

Regardless of the apple lossless encoder working well inside iTunes, I still use a separate encoder program for creating my apple lossless files.  It's a free program called XLD and I use it for the following reasons:

1.  You can convert flac to apple lossless directly, without decoding to wav or aif first.

2.  There is a simple drag and drop menu

3.  When you import/convert a file with iTunes it automatically adds those files to your default iTunes music folder, which can only live on one hard drive.  The iTunes system of importing/converting is not very practical if you are spanning data over multiple drives.  By doing all of my converting outside of iTunes, I can drag and drop any files and folders I want into the iTunes screen and they will be indexed but not moved from the drive where I want them to live. 

To keep iTunes from always copying files to the iTunes music folder when you drag them into iTunes, make sure that you have the "Copy files to iTunes media folder" box unchecked in your advanced settings.  Once you have this box unchecked, iTunes simply acts as a playback index for what ever media you drag and drop in there.

The compression for apple lossless is pretty much the same as flac.

[lastubbe]

Thanks for all that info moellenium.  That is getting filed in my to-do and I will definitely be revisiting this thread when I'm ready to experiment with that software and XLD program.

[thegreatgumbino]

The only thing that I do not use iTunes for is importing CDs, since the iTunes encoder is not bit accurate.  I use xAct for the rip, encode to apple lossless and then transfer to iTunes.

I recognize edit: you think the iTunes Apple Lossless encoder is not bit perfect.  I take it xAct's encoder is bit perfect?  Can you speak to what type of compression savings you're getting with xAct's AL versus just keeping Wav's?

The apple lossless encoder in iTunes works perfectly if you are encoding a file (i.e. wav or aif, I have done multiple phase tests to check this out), the issue that I have with iTunes is the actual ripping of CDs to any format.  For the sake of speed, Itunes does not do an error check against the original CD image after it has imported a disc.  When you import a CD with xAct, it takes longer than iTunes, but the software repeatedly checks the files that it is creating against the physical disk image to check for and correct errors, resulting in a bit accurate import.

My thought in the original post was incomplete.  Edited it to correct.

I agree with you that iTunes error correction process is not equivalent to EAC's, xAct,
or DBPoweramp.  But IMO you don't need that type of error correction unless the CD is in poor shape. 

[moellenium]

The only thing that I do not use iTunes for is importing CDs, since the iTunes encoder is not bit accurate.  I use xAct for the rip, encode to apple lossless and then transfer to iTunes.

I recognize edit: you think the iTunes Apple Lossless encoder is not bit perfect.  I take it xAct's encoder is bit perfect?  Can you speak to what type of compression savings you're getting with xAct's AL versus just keeping Wav's?

I think you're getting some of the information in my posts mixed up.  xAct does not include an apple lossless encoder.  I am only using xAct to rip CDs to wav and then I'm using XLD to convert to apple lossless.  I realize that a bit perfect ripping program can be overkill sometimes, but after building a collection of thousands of well traveled live shows on CD over the years it provides me with some piece of mind.  Also, as I mentioned in my previous post, I prefer to do all of my ripping/encoding outside of iTunes so that I don't have to deal with the iTunes music folder issue. The apple lossless encoder inside of iTunes works perfect when you are converting from another format.  I just don't like iTunes telling me where the files should live, which is why I use XLD.

I just typed this on my iPhone waiting to board a plane, so pardon any fat finger mistakes.

[moellenium]

Thanks for all that info moellenium.  That is getting filed in my to-do and I will definitely be revisiting this thread when I'm ready to experiment with that software and XLD program.

No problem, feel free to PM me with any questions.

[thegreatgumbino]

I think you're getting some of the information in my posts mixed up.  xAct does not include an apple lossless encoder.  I am only using xAct to rip CDs to wav and then I'm using XLD to convert to apple lossless.  I realize that a bit perfect ripping program can be overkill sometimes, but after building a collection of thousands of well traveled live shows on CD over the years it provides me with some piece of mind.  Also, as I mentioned in my previous post, I prefer to do all of my ripping/encoding outside of iTunes so that I don't have to deal with the iTunes music folder issue. The apple lossless encoder inside of iTunes works perfect when you are converting from another format.  I just don't like iTunes telling me where the files should live, which is why I use XLD.

I just typed this on my iPhone waiting to board a plane, so pardon any fat finger mistakes.

I understand where you're coming from.  Nothing wrong at all with the peace of mind that your system brings.  It just adds some time & effort to the process. 

FYI, xACT does have an Apple Lossless encoder in the version I'm using (1.69).

Safe travels.

[scb]

just an FYI - if you're using XLD to encode files, you should use XLD to rip the cds.  it'll go cd > apple lossless in 1 step and uses the newest CD Paranoia

and yes, xACT does have an apple lossless encoder in versions newer than the latest "public" version

i'll pm a link to the latest i'm using

[Tim]

god I love xACT, thanks for your work on that Scott

apple lossless is all the rage in the various hi-end servers I've been seeing demos of. The Mac Mini seems to be the preferred machine as well

[moellenium]

just an FYI - if you're using XLD to encode files, you should use XLD to rip the cds.  it'll go cd > apple lossless in 1 step and uses the newest CD Paranoia

and yes, xACT does have an apple lossless encoder in versions newer than the latest "public" version

i'll pm a link to the latest i'm using

That's great news about xAct I can't wait to try it out. Regarding the cd ripping in XLD, I was having issues with the program crashing during rips in an earlier version, so I kind of gave up on it.    xAct always worked with CDs perfectly for me, so that's what I went back to.

[Todd R]

Scott -- thanks for your efforts, and yes please, a link to the latest xACT would be great.  I'm using the public version.

moel. -- thanks for all the info.  I've been meaning to get XLD, so I'll have to check that out.  I've already got the copy files.. box in iTunes unchecked. 

On this front, I ripped all my studio CDs onto mp3 years ago and have been planning on re-ripping to either FLAC or apple lossless.  So if I use iTunes, I can't direct where the files go -- they can only go into the iTunes music library?  I'd been thinking about using iTunes mainly for the ease and esp so I could get access to their database for album artwork and song titles.  But that will be a no-go if I'm stuck with having my music end up in the itunes library.
 
I'll look into XLD.  Does it access a CD database to retrieve song titles and artwork for studio CDs?

[lastubbe]

just an FYI - if you're using XLD to encode files, you should use XLD to rip the cds.  it'll go cd > apple lossless in 1 step and uses the newest CD Paranoia

and yes, xACT does have an apple lossless encoder in versions newer than the latest "public" version

i'll pm a link to the latest i'm using

When the comment of someone encoding to apple lossless in xACT came up earlier in this thread I literally searched the program 3 times looking for it thinking I must be a losing it.

I would definitely appreciate being able to add that feature on if it's available.

[moellenium]

Scott -- thanks for your efforts, and yes please, a link to the latest xACT would be great.  I'm using the public version.

moel. -- thanks for all the info.  I've been meaning to get XLD, so I'll have to check that out.  I've already got the copy files.. box in iTunes unchecked. 

On this front, I ripped all my studio CDs onto mp3 years ago and have been planning on re-ripping to either FLAC or apple lossless.  So if I use iTunes, I can't direct where the files go -- they can only go into the iTunes music library?  I'd been thinking about using iTunes mainly for the ease and esp so I could get access to their database for album artwork and song titles.  But that will be a no-go if I'm stuck with having my music end up in the itunes library.
 
I'll look into XLD.  Does it access a CD database to retrieve song titles and artwork for studio CDs?

If you rip a CD in iTunes, it will be added to the iTunes music folder.  You can move the files somewhere else (like a different drive), but then you have to go back into iTunes and manually re-link each song to the new file location (you cannot do it as a batch), so it takes forever.

Both XLD and xAct access CDDB for song/album/artist information, just like iTunes.  All of the information shows up in iTunes perfectly when you drag and drop them into the library. 

Once you have the songs in your library, I'm pretty sure you can retrieve the album artwork regardless of whether or not you used iTunes to import the disc/files.  However, whether or not iTunes can provide the artwork depends on whether or not that artist is sold in the iTunes music store, since that is where iTunes receives it's artwork information (take that Beatles!).  Sometimes, even if the artist is sold on the iTunes store, the artwork will not download because some minute bit of information, such as genre, may differ in your library from what is stored on the iTunes database.  However, it is very easy to add your own artwork in iTunes if the automated feature isn't working for a particular album.  Just batch select all of the songs from the album and drag a jpeg of the album cover into the "drag album artwork here" box in the "now playing" window or in the "album art" tab of the "get info" window for that block of songs.  There are also some newer websites, which I have not checked out, that claim that they can add the album art that iTunes doesn't have.

I don't know how many of you have an iPhone or iPod touch, but the free Apple Remote app lets you control your itunes library from anywhere in your house over wifi.

[Todd R]

moel. -- once again, thanks for all the detailed info.

I'll def try XLD.  I had tried using Max (I think?  I'm hazy now) for awhile for rips but something seems to have gotten corrupted and it never finds song/album/artist info on its own, though I've found a script to run in addition that grabs it.

The song tagging info is all I really need, but it's nice to have artwork for my ipod and Squeezebox duet.  On that front -- no touch/iphone for me, but the squeezebox allows wireless and remote control of all my music, whether its in itunes or not, and plays flacs, 24bit, etc.  My friend uses his touch for that though, pretty slick.

Among the many things I need to do is re-organize my itunes.  I've moved most of my music to new drives and now itunes can't find anything.  At this point I only really use it as an interface to get music/video onto my ipod classic.

[nic]

moellenium, have you tried the checking the box for error correction in the iTunes import settings?

[moellenium]

moellenium, have you tried the checking the box for error correction in the iTunes import settings?

In 2005, when I first bought an iPod, I used iTunes with error correction to import all of my albums to AAC.  It usually worked pretty well, but sometimes I would get artifacts in the files.  Sometimes this was just because the disc was too damaged, but there were other occurrences when I would get artifacts in the iTunes rip, but when I tried it xAct, the rip would come out perfectly.  So since then, I've used xAct exclusively.  They may have improved the technology since then, but I have not used iTunes to rip in a long while, so I'm not up to date.  However, as I've mentioned in my previous posts, the biggest issue for me switching from iTunes to xAct for ripping CDs is because of the iTunes music folder.