Topic: New Playback Questions: Source (?) > PHP-850 preamp > HCA-1200II amp > VR-4's

[Nick's Picks]

ok..
if your bidding on that, then I'll retract as I was going to snipe it to build cable to sell to the group.  but if you've got your eye on it ...its yours.

[thegreatgumbino]

ok..
if your bidding on that, then I'll retract as I was going to snipe it to build cable to sell to the group.  but if you've got your eye on it ...its yours.

Thanks, I appreciate it.  +T

I'm going to grab it for my speaker cables.  I figure it will be a good investment.   

[bkirby]

Here is a pic of the back of my VR-2s with the shotgun 6ga. silver wire...
Still sounding good! I never even thought about max. wire size reccomendations from amp manufacturers! My amp. says nothing about wire size, so I will assume all is ok...
That 8ga. wire looks good, and so does the 4-conductor braid! Give it a whirl...

[thegreatgumbino]

Here is a pic of the back of my VR-2s with the shotgun 6ga. silver wire...
Still sounding good! I never even thought about max. wire size reccomendations from amp manufacturers! My amp. says nothing about wire size, so I will assume all is ok...
That 8ga. wire looks good, and so does the 4-conductor braid! Give it a whirl...

That's some nice looking cable!  Thanks for the picture.  I need to go back & re-read it, but I think it was more a manufacturer recommendation and not a mandate, fwiw.

[Nick's Picks]

6ga is pretty damn thick, imo.  and will kill all but the finest binding posts as its so stiff and heavy.

i'd guess 10ga would be just about perfect.  I'm happy w/my 6's though.  good investment.
here are mine, sans Vamp spades (have them, but have been lazy).  Mine are set for "normal mode", as my speakers only have two posts.

I had them in a bi-wire config for a while, and those really kicked ass.  It was super easy w/this stuff.  the metal braid consists of 19 other braids of 19 wires.  you can untwist the entire thing, and re-twist it into two (one w/10 and one w/9 braids) leads at the speaker end, and leave it as is on the amp end.
this way, you only need those 6ga spades on one end, the amp.

[thegreatgumbino]

After re-reading the equipment manuals, Parasound says the connections on the amp are sized for using up to 12 awg bare wire connections.  They don't recommend using anything bigger for that type of connection. So, it shouldn't apply to using a mechanical connection.  However, due to the fact that their connectors are sized for bigger wire, they do not recommend using spade connectors.  Evidently they are the admitted weak link due to this fact and can shear off if tweaked on too much, etc.  Therefore, looks like I'm going to use banana's. 

I have a question about bananas though.  If I'm going to shotgun my speaker cables from the amp & run two separate pairs out to the VR-4's, I either have to bi-wire a cable like the quad we talked about earlier where there are two cable runs of 4 conductors that each terminate into 1 banana per (+) and (-) at the amp, or I have to run 2 sets of bananas at each connection of the amp to run all.  Is it possible to piggy back bananas?  i.e. run two bananas at the (+) and (-) for a total of 4 bananas?

Does that jibber jabber make any sense at all?

edit:  Found the piggyback banana plugs.  Just need to figure out what kind, etc.  Looks like Parts Express has a good selection.

[Nick's Picks]

why would you go this way again?
I wouldn't worry about the GA recomendation.  I believe (from the way it was worded), that this was the limit for working with bare wire?

you can still use a single banana for each double run.

[cshepherd]

If there is room for a spade underneath the tightening bolt, you may just need a wider spade to make a secure connection.  If it will take 12 awg through the hole, the binding post may be too wide for a standard 8 mm spade.  15 mm spades should work if you would rather use a spade/banana combo on each terminal.

Chris

[thegreatgumbino]

why would you go this way again?
I wouldn't worry about the GA recomendation.  I believe (from the way it was worded), that this was the limit for working with bare wire?

you can still use a single banana for each double run.

It is the limit for working with bare wire, but due to their design to accomodate the larger gauge wire, it compromises the strength of the terminal shaft.  If it does shear off, it's not covered under warranty.  From the source:

The speaker terminal shafts may be slightly too thick to accomodate standard 1/4" spade lugs.  If you prefer to use spade lugs instead of banana plugs, you can insert one half of each "spade" into the hole across each terminal shaft.  But if you do this, make sure you don't permit the lug to rotate as the terminal is tightened down.  It can easily cause the terminal shaft to shear off, as it is relatively weak in this one area due to the large diameter of the opening for accomodating heavier gauge wires.  We recommend banana plugs for convenience.

 

As for only using one banana for each double run, my thoughts were this.  I realize I can bi-wire the the quad cable, split them into two runs of two conductors, and have one banana at the amp and 4 separate spades at the speakers.  Instead, my thoughts are to pair two conductors together to achieve ~12 awg for (+) and (-) connections and run two sets of cables out of the amp (one to woofer, one to the midrange/tweeter), rather than using a jumper. 

Does it matter?  Probably not, but I don't know for sure.  Is there a downside to running piggybacked banana plugs?

[carlbeck]

My understanding is that spades are a better connection than bannana's, I use spades personaly.

[scervin]

I like the locking bananas from WBT.

www.vhaudio.com
www.ramelectronics.net

After re-reading the equipment manuals, Parasound says the connections on the amp are sized for using up to 12 awg bare wire connections.  They don't recommend using anything bigger for that type of connection. So, it shouldn't apply to using a mechanical connection.  However, due to the fact that their connectors are sized for bigger wire, they do not recommend using spade connectors.  Evidently they are the admitted weak link due to this fact and can shear off if tweaked on too much, etc.  Therefore, looks like I'm going to use banana's. 

I have a question about bananas though.  If I'm going to shotgun my speaker cables from the amp & run two separate pairs out to the VR-4's, I either have to bi-wire a cable like the quad we talked about earlier where there are two cable runs of 4 conductors that each terminate into 1 banana per (+) and (-) at the amp, or I have to run 2 sets of bananas at each connection of the amp to run all.  Is it possible to piggy back bananas?  i.e. run two bananas at the (+) and (-) for a total of 4 bananas?

Does that jibber jabber make any sense at all?

edit:  Found the piggyback banana plugs.  Just need to figure out what kind, etc.  Looks like Parts Express has a good selection.

[thegreatgumbino]

Alright, I can't decide what I want to do for a source (media vs. HD), so I'm going to save up my pennies for now.  I should be able to play dvd-v on my old Pioneer DVD player and run analog out to the preamp, correct?  I know the sound may suffer, but ya' gotta star somewhere, no?

[Nick's Picks]

patience, an overrated virtue in this hobby.

[thegreatgumbino]

For speaker wire, I would have to reccomend going this route (http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,72088.0.html). I finally finished mine yesterday and WHOAH! Unbelieveable after experimenting with many different DIY and manufactured cables! And they aren't even broken-in yet! My VR-2s have never sounded so good!
I have these set-up as shotgun with four separate cables to each speaker. I tried to add techflex to these, but the wires are so stiff that it just wasn't working out for an eight foot run. I have a couple pix that I can add later tonight...
The only spades I could find that would accomodate these giants are from Vampire Wire (6ga. spades)! They were a bitch to crimp, but finally got them done! Of course I will know more once they are finally broken in, but so far I am very impressed!!!
 

Do you remember which vampire spades did you pick up to run with these?  I think I'm going to grab some of this stuff and try it out.  Thanks for the heads up.  +T

Matt

[Nick's Picks]

the ones they have rated for 6ga
http://vampirewire.com/mcart/index.cgi?code=3&page=1&cat=7

doesn't really matter which, as long as it can handle that wire.