Become a Site Supporter and Never see Ads again!

Author Topic: Analog set up  (Read 7727 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline ButchAlmberg

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Taperssection Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 269
  • Gender: Male
Analog set up
« on: June 11, 2019, 02:35:06 PM »
Back story... I got into taping fairly recently and never had the opportunity to record a show with analog equipment. I'm intrigued by the gear that you guys used 'back in the day' and sometimes feel like I never earned that merit badge. That said, I know there is old analog equipment floating around out there and I've been inclined as of late to buy something in order to tape a few shows... just to say I did.

So, I'm looking into different decks. I've considered the Sony D-5 and the Marantz PMD430, but... that tape flip  :angry3: I guess the question is, if you had to record in analog today, what deck would you dust off?
Line Audio CM-3, CM-4, Lewitt
Sound Devices MixPre-6 II |  Tascam DR-70D

Team Line Audio

Offline heathen

  • Trade Count: (23)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 3528
Re: Analog set up
« Reply #1 on: June 11, 2019, 02:46:46 PM »
If I had to record analog today my first concern would be obtaining quality tape.  I haven't looked into it, but my understanding is that quality cassette tapes are kinda' pricey these days.  I imagine reel-to-reel even moreso.  If it's just for a few shows, though, it might not be that big a deal.

As to decks, I'd look for a Sony D5 or the Marantz deck that was popular among tapers (I can't remember the model number).  The Sony D6 is pretty good and even more portable, and is what I had/have, but the metering is very crude and it can't pass a signal while doing a tape flip.  There is probably other functionality it lacks compared to the D5 or Marantz, but I never used either of those so I can't say for sure.

There is a thread on here where someone recreated a '70s cassette rig...I believe with a big Nakamichi deck.  That project is pretty awesome, so you may want to dig up the thread.
Mics: AT4050ST | AT4031 | AT853 (C/SC) | Line Audio CM3 | Sennheiser e614 | Sennheiser MKE2 | DPA 4061 Pre: CA9200 Decks: Zoom F8 | Roland R-05

Offline jefflester

  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Taperssection All-Star
  • ****
  • Posts: 1560
  • Gender: Male
Re: Analog set up
« Reply #2 on: June 11, 2019, 05:14:44 PM »
There is a thread on here where someone recreated a '70s cassette rig...I believe with a big Nakamichi deck.  That project is pretty awesome, so you may want to dig up the thread.
Yep.
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=186430.0;all
DPA4061 HEB -> R-09 / AT943 -> CA-UGLY -> R-09
AKG CK63 -> nBob actives -> Baby NBox -> R-09/DR2d
AKG CK63 -> AKG C460B -> Zoom F8/DR-680MKII
Line Audio CM4/Superlux S502/Samson C02/iSK Little Gem/Sennheiser E609/Shure SM57 -> Zoom F8/DR-680MKII (multitracked band recordings)

Offline ycoop

  • Trade Count: (9)
  • Taperssection Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 647
  • Gender: Male
Re: Analog set up
« Reply #3 on: June 11, 2019, 07:40:11 PM »
Hope I’m not high jacking the thread too much, but I’m unclear on the mechanics of the tape flip and subsequent patching from other sources. Could someone explain to me how that would work?
Mics: Avantone CK-1s, AT853 c+o
Pres: CA9100
Recorders: DR-60d mkII, DR-2d

Offline jefflester

  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Taperssection All-Star
  • ****
  • Posts: 1560
  • Gender: Male
Re: Analog set up
« Reply #4 on: June 11, 2019, 09:46:54 PM »
Hope I’m not high jacking the thread too much, but I’m unclear on the mechanics of the tape flip and subsequent patching from other sources. Could someone explain to me how that would work?
There are all sorts of factors in deciding when to perform a tape flip. Biggest factor is who the band is - how long are their songs and how much time do they take in between them, if any. And how long of sets they play. When you get close to end of Side A and a song ends, you do a quick flip. If there is time you can rewind Side B to the start to save tape. If they only play 60-75 min sets though, you don't need to worry so much about using up most of Side A or rewinding back to start of Side B (for standard C90). But if the band starts up quick while you're flipping or rewinding, yeah you lose a few seconds. To patch it, you load both sources into a multi track DAW, align them, match levels, and switch over to the alt source to cover the gap in the first one.
DPA4061 HEB -> R-09 / AT943 -> CA-UGLY -> R-09
AKG CK63 -> nBob actives -> Baby NBox -> R-09/DR2d
AKG CK63 -> AKG C460B -> Zoom F8/DR-680MKII
Line Audio CM4/Superlux S502/Samson C02/iSK Little Gem/Sennheiser E609/Shure SM57 -> Zoom F8/DR-680MKII (multitracked band recordings)

Offline daspyknows

  • Complaint Dept.
  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 9636
  • Gender: Male
  • Don't ask, don't tell, don't get get caught
Re: Analog set up
« Reply #5 on: June 11, 2019, 09:50:23 PM »
Hope I’m not high jacking the thread too much, but I’m unclear on the mechanics of the tape flip and subsequent patching from other sources. Could someone explain to me how that would work?
There are all sorts of factors in deciding when to perform a tape flip. Biggest factor is who the band is - how long are their songs and how much time do they take in between them, if any. And how long of sets they play. When you get close to end of Side A and a song ends, you do a quick flip. If there is time you can rewind Side B to the start to save tape. If they only play 60-75 min sets though, you don't need to worry so much about using up most of Side A or rewinding back to start of Side B (for standard C90). But if the band starts up quick while you're flipping or rewinding, yeah you lose a few seconds. To patch it, you load both sources into a multi track DAW, align them, match levels, and switch over to the alt source to cover the gap in the first one.

How I remember the days of running 6 D-5's and having to do the flip/rewind thing.  I was so glad to go digital with the PCM F-1/SL2000 with 2 hour tapes.

Offline ycoop

  • Trade Count: (9)
  • Taperssection Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 647
  • Gender: Male
Re: Analog set up
« Reply #6 on: June 11, 2019, 10:15:23 PM »
Hope I’m not high jacking the thread too much, but I’m unclear on the mechanics of the tape flip and subsequent patching from other sources. Could someone explain to me how that would work?
There are all sorts of factors in deciding when to perform a tape flip. Biggest factor is who the band is - how long are their songs and how much time do they take in between them, if any. And how long of sets they play. When you get close to end of Side A and a song ends, you do a quick flip. If there is time you can rewind Side B to the start to save tape. If they only play 60-75 min sets though, you don't need to worry so much about using up most of Side A or rewinding back to start of Side B (for standard C90). But if the band starts up quick while you're flipping or rewinding, yeah you lose a few seconds. To patch it, you load both sources into a multi track DAW, align them, match levels, and switch over to the alt source to cover the gap in the first one.

Thanks. I imagine there were some tricky moments if there were long, unexpected jams.

Surely one didn’t patch in this way when taping was all analog.
Mics: Avantone CK-1s, AT853 c+o
Pres: CA9100
Recorders: DR-60d mkII, DR-2d

Offline jefflester

  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Taperssection All-Star
  • ****
  • Posts: 1560
  • Gender: Male
Re: Analog set up
« Reply #7 on: June 11, 2019, 10:52:52 PM »
Thanks. I imagine there were some tricky moments if there were long, unexpected jams.
Yeah. Usually with a Dead show set two Side A would take you into drums and you wouldn't care so much about losing a few seconds on the flip. But sometimes pre-drums would run long and you might have a cut while they were still in a song or doing some interesting jamming.
Quote
Surely one didn’t patch in this way when taping was all analog.
Ah, is that what you were asking? Yeah, nobody bothered patching from other sources back in the tape days. You'd just live with the cut.

For the few cases of splicing/patching, it would have been done on reels rather than cassettes. IIRC, someone put together a splice job of 11/08/70, since the best quality source (Ken and Judy Lee) had lots of cuts from starting/stopping the deck.
DPA4061 HEB -> R-09 / AT943 -> CA-UGLY -> R-09
AKG CK63 -> nBob actives -> Baby NBox -> R-09/DR2d
AKG CK63 -> AKG C460B -> Zoom F8/DR-680MKII
Line Audio CM4/Superlux S502/Samson C02/iSK Little Gem/Sennheiser E609/Shure SM57 -> Zoom F8/DR-680MKII (multitracked band recordings)

Offline lerond

  • Trade Count: (5)
  • Taperssection Regular
  • **
  • Posts: 62
  • Gender: Male
Re: Analog set up
« Reply #8 on: June 11, 2019, 11:36:21 PM »
Hah! I got acquainted with tapers soon after becoming a deadhead in the early 80's ... but I waited for DAT to show up to become a taper, in large part because I didn't want to have to deal with analog tape flips.
Been very happy with the progress in taping technology ... these are the good old days!
ain't no party like a katydid party
jumpin' and a hoppin' and singin' them songs!

Offline datbrad

  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 2295
  • Gender: Male
Re: Analog set up
« Reply #9 on: June 12, 2019, 06:35:40 AM »
I recall plenty of Dead shows in the '80s when I counted up to 12 decks running out of my rig, D5s first, with a few D6s at the end. When flip time came, it was usually a crowd of dudes that looked like they were giving somebody CPR from a distance, lol. Holding down the record button with the right thumb, you flipped the tapes with left hand to keep signal from cutting the next decks. Between that and riding levels, taping in the cassette days was not a "set it and forget it" proposition. One of the biggest benefits DAT delivered was to eliminate flips.
AKG C460B w/CK61/CK63>Luminous Monarch XLRs>SD MP-1(x2)>Luminous Monarch XLRs>PMD661(Oade WMOD)

Beyer M201>Luminous Monarch XLRs>PMD561 (Oade CMOD)

Offline ButchAlmberg

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Taperssection Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 269
  • Gender: Male
Re: Analog set up
« Reply #10 on: June 12, 2019, 12:16:30 PM »
Were portable reel to reels ever a thing?
Line Audio CM-3, CM-4, Lewitt
Sound Devices MixPre-6 II |  Tascam DR-70D

Team Line Audio

Offline lsd2525

  • Trade Count: (18)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 3397
  • Gender: Male
  • Eschew obfuscation
Re: Analog set up
« Reply #11 on: June 12, 2019, 12:27:24 PM »
 ;D

FOB no less
Mics: SKM184's; ADK A51s; AT4041; Superlux S502; CK91 active w/homebrew BB; AT853; Naiant X-X; Nak 300's
Recorders: M10; DR-60D; DR-701D

Offline heathen

  • Trade Count: (23)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 3528
Re: Analog set up
« Reply #12 on: June 12, 2019, 12:32:41 PM »
Were portable reel to reels ever a thing?

Absolutely.  Lots of great audience recordings came from portable reel-to-reel recorders. 

Edit: Check out this discussion https://archive.org/post/344701/reel-to-reel-question
« Last Edit: June 12, 2019, 12:34:59 PM by heathen »
Mics: AT4050ST | AT4031 | AT853 (C/SC) | Line Audio CM3 | Sennheiser e614 | Sennheiser MKE2 | DPA 4061 Pre: CA9200 Decks: Zoom F8 | Roland R-05

Offline ButchAlmberg

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Taperssection Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 269
  • Gender: Male
Re: Analog set up
« Reply #13 on: June 12, 2019, 01:45:50 PM »
Isd2525 that guy's doing the mic stand block before there were mic stands  :) Great pic!
Line Audio CM-3, CM-4, Lewitt
Sound Devices MixPre-6 II |  Tascam DR-70D

Team Line Audio

Offline ButchAlmberg

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Taperssection Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 269
  • Gender: Male
Re: Analog set up
« Reply #14 on: June 12, 2019, 01:49:30 PM »
Heathen, cool information in that link. Thank you. That Ampex mm1000 weighed in at only 650 lbs
Line Audio CM-3, CM-4, Lewitt
Sound Devices MixPre-6 II |  Tascam DR-70D

Team Line Audio

 

RSS | Mobile
Page created in 0.103 seconds with 44 queries.
© 2002-2024 Taperssection.com
Powered by SMF