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Gear / Technical Help => Ask The Tapers => Topic started by: Chillin2611 on November 14, 2015, 05:49:17 PM
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Hello Everyone, I am new to trying to learn how to tape live concerts. I do not know where to begin. I was on Youtube ( Reference on youtube: User is Jontebus and his videos are awesome specifically Ghost @ Lisebergshallen, Gothenburg, Sweden - 2015-11-11) this user and I were chatting and he said he uses SHURE microphones to get that awesome sound but he never told me which model he uses. He referenced me to this dialogue page so here I am. I want to learn how to tape a live concert with getting as close to clean audio sound. I don't know what kind of recorder to buy and I don't know what kind of microphones to use. I have read about Sony PCM-10 I see that recorder referenced many times from this site. The bottom line is I want to learn how to record live concerts that produce nice audience recording audio can anybody recommend quality microphones and audio recorder. the most I would spend is up to $2,000. Please and Thank You.
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Start with telling us your budget. For "studio quality" sound you need $6k or up. I don't think that is really what you mean.
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... from one of his DiME uploads he is running
AKG CK63 + tinybox + Sony PCM-M10 (24bit/48kHz)
at the moment, ...
hope that helps !
pillowman
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www.openingtime.lima-city.de
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Thank you very much @ pillowman that information was a great help.
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I *think* Jontebus uses a Shure vp-88??? I could be wrong...
For a good AUD tape, its all about location location location... Get your mic in the sweet spot and you'll pull a sweet tape...
That's as close you'll get to a SBD tape w/o actually taping the SBD...
Terry
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http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=33610.0
Read the Newbie section and learn about the various types of gear... Then you can start talking about mics and recorders and all the bits in between...
Jontebus now seems to use a Church Audio system (very small mics, pocket sized pre-amp) with an Edirol hand-held recorder (R-09)... I think he is a "stack taper", meaning he stands as close as possible to a "stack" of PA speakers...
Terry
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Where can I find an updated Roland-09 Recorder. the website says they discontinued this recorder. I see old ones on amazon, ebay,etc. I want an up to date model recorder.
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Where can I find an updated Roland-09 Recorder. the website says they discontinued this recorder. I see old ones on amazon, ebay,etc. I want an up to date model recorder.
The recorder doesn't have much, if anything, to do with the over "sound" of a live recording. The microphones can* though. And by * I'm quoting twatts here: "For a good AUD tape, its all about location location location... Get your mic in the sweet spot and you'll pull a sweet tape..."
My rig costs less than a grand and I've pulled some really nice recordings in small venues in the sweet spot and I bet a lot of guys/gals here have done the same.
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Where can I find an updated Roland-09 Recorder. the website says they discontinued this recorder. I see old ones on amazon, ebay,etc. I want an up to date model recorder.
Aren't these notorious for input jack failure...?
Better choices out there these days...keep looking!
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I *think* Jontebus uses a Shure vp-88??? I could be wrong...
For a good AUD tape, its all about location location location... Get your mic in the sweet spot and you'll pull a sweet tape...
That's as close you'll get to a SBD tape w/o actually taping the SBD...
Terry
I think he was planning on getting schoeps MK4's from conversations I had with him.
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Where can I find an updated Roland-09 Recorder. the website says they discontinued this recorder. I see old ones on amazon, ebay,etc. I want an up to date model recorder.
The most prefered recorder in the same category as the Edirol/Roland R-09 around here today is the Sony M10. You won't go wrong using one of those. You may need a preamp or battery box to power the microphones depending on which mics you choose, but the choice of microphones and the microphone setup configuration are going to be your biggest sound quality variables, gear-wise.
The biggest sound-quality variable of all (which you have some control over) is placing the microphones in the best location, as Terry and George mentioned. We have no control over the things which are more important than that - the performer's performance, the performance space, the sound reinforcement system, and the audience.
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Lately, Jontebus was using either a pair of AKG CK61 or a pair of AKG CK63 caps without bodies, a Tinybox (by Naiant - discontinued), a Sony PCM-M10 recorder and active cables. His last audience tapes have been quite impressive.
If you want the same rig, you're probably going to spend your whole $2000 budget.
Any possible alternative for the Tinybox ?
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Welcome to the wonderful world of taping, I run a M-10 recorder (very easy to use), as a person who got back into taping earlier this year research your mic's carefully......I am on 3rd pair of mic's in 6 months(church, Oktava (great mic's wrong application for live taping) & now Telefunken (not buying new mic's 4 a while!).
I have spent an additional approximately another $3k from my initial Church purchase (& I won't sell this set up b/c it is so easy to use), and I spent this money because I did not do enough research on the front end!
Check the yard sale, it is your friend!
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I *think* Jontebus uses a Shure vp-88??? I could be wrong...
His current setup is:
AKG CK61 > TinyBox > Sony PCM-M10.
He does get some great captures ... :)
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Where can I find an updated Roland-09 Recorder. the website says they discontinued this recorder. I see old ones on amazon, ebay,etc. I want an up to date model recorder.
sony m10 or roland r-05
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Where can I find an updated Roland-09 Recorder. the website says they discontinued this recorder. I see old ones on amazon, ebay,etc. I want an up to date model recorder.
get a sony pcm-m10
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Get a new Sony M10
Contact member Darktrain for a set of Audio Technica (AT853) mics
Get a preamp. Tinybox are no longer made so I suggest you take Church Audio CA9200 preamp from member Chris Church, http://www.church-audio.com. Chris stuff is excellent, though delivery can take some time.
Get concerttickets for shows you like in both big and small venues and start taping!
You will end up with a lot of questions after each gig, count on some trial and error. Tell your story here, search for answers here or ask here.
No need to spend to much money first. That takes away to much of the fun too :laugh:
Good luck!
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You will end up with a lot of questions after each gig, count on some trial and error. Tell your story here, search for answers here or ask here.
This is probably the best advice of all. Nothing teaches like experience, as a trip through the "Every Mistake I Ever Made" thread should make abundantly clear.
And especially with mics, I don't think any amount of online research can tell you what you'll end up being happy with until you take them out in the world and see the results.
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also, go to some shows you don't really care about at first. That way, when you mess up, which you likely will do a time or 2, you won't really mind
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This is probably the best advice of all. Nothing teaches like experience, as a trip through the "Every Mistake I Ever Made" thread should make abundantly clear.
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=150209.0
If you read a bunch of this thread and don't do any of the stupid things on it then you will make a great recording. It mostly involves remembering settings, accessories, and batteries, plugging things into the right holes, and not pushing the wrong buttons.
I think with your budget what people here are recommending is some high end capsules with active cables, combined with a preamp/phantom power setup. This is all indeed the best you can do and you can just about pull it off for that budget. However, I have gotten some amazing recordings with electret condenser mics which don't require high voltage phantom power and the attendant expensive or difficult to obtain gear. Consider the AT853 or CA mics which can operate off of a battery box or small preamp. Search Archive to listen to how these different rigs sound.
Here's a sample of the AT853 hypers with the Church Audio 9100 preamp. I got the mics and box for like $250 or something, and they regularly perform as well as my more expensive mics. For some reason I don't get the same high end response from the cardioid capsules, by a long shot. So I don't use them anymore, at all, regardless of how close I am.
https://archive.org/details/gat2010-05-22.flac16
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Get a mentor! Find an experienced taper in your area
and go to a few shows together. This will save you a lot
of wasted time (trial & error). An AKG active setup can
be purchased for under 2k.
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Get a new Sony M10
Contact member Darktrain for a set of Audio Technica (AT853) mics
Get a preamp. Tinybox are no longer made so I suggest you take Church Audio CA9200 preamp from member Chris Church, http://www.church-audio.com. Chris stuff is excellent, though delivery can take some time.
All great advice, especially this. You can make very fine recordings with this combination. There really is no reason to spend $2k just yet. First, you may find it's too much work/don't like it. Second, the sound quality of this $400 rig won't be "1/5 as good" as a $2k rig. It will sound very nice if you learn to use it correctly. You need to learn your craft on a Fiat, not a Ferrari. Then move up.
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Cannot go wrong with an M10. In fact, I like mine so well that I just picked up a 2nd. (thanks Backwhereubelong!)
They also happen to be on sale now at B&H. http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=175710.0
A not too expensive but excellent set of very small mics are the CAFS. Paired up with a church audio preamp (since Tinybox's are hard to come by now) this complete set up will cost you less than $600 and is capable of producing excellent recordings.
I saw a set in Yardsale recently. If I didn't already own the CAFS mics, these would be on their way to my mailbox. http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=175758.0
If you'd like to hear samples let me know and I'll post some.