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Author Topic: Sony PCM-D100  (Read 176979 times)

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Offline aaronji

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Re: Sony PCM-D100
« Reply #345 on: May 14, 2014, 04:37:37 PM »
Definitely good news.  As far as I know, they never updated the firmware for the D1, D50 or M10.  There is always something that can be improved a little.

Offline Mike Davis

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Re: Sony PCM-D100
« Reply #346 on: May 18, 2014, 09:32:19 PM »
Optical out is pcm only - I don't know if the d100 allows DSD audio (converting to PCM first) out of the optical output though

You're right!  It took a Sony Pro support representative one day short of three weeks to answer my question!  Today he has finally received a solid reply from Sony Japan, saying that the PCM-D100's Optical Out does not support DSD2.8 playback.  Its Line Out does (using the internal DAC), as does the Headphone Out, of course.

So, the question for people who want to use the PCM-D100 as a portable audio player, now becomes:  How good is the internal, proprietary DAC (for use with Line Out to an external portable headphone amp)? 

I fear it might not be any better than my Sony PCM-M10's proprietary DAC - which is somewhat lacking in mids energy, a little bright, and ever so slightly (very slightly) grainy in the treble (again, via Line Out to an external amp). 

I was hoping to use Optical Out to an external portable DAC and amp of my choice - I can still do that, but not for playing DSD2.8 files.

OK...  back to discussions of recording capability (instead of playback).

 :)

Mike

Revisting this sub-topic, I now know of two PCM-D100 owners who have discovered that the Optical Out doesn't reliably support sampling rates any higher than 96 kHz.  That's two different people trying to use the Optical Out to two different DACs.  One of them is using an expensive glass cable that handles higher rates without issues on other gear.

The better news is that the Line Out from the PCM-D100's proprietary DAC sounds better than the PCM-M10's DAC - like the M10, the DAC is a little bright and somewhat lacking in dynamics, but apparently doesn't suffer the M10's very slight graininess.

I'm getting all of this second-hand, so if anyone has a counterpoint to these observations, I'm all ears.  :-)

Mike

Offline H₂O

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Re: Sony PCM-D100
« Reply #347 on: May 18, 2014, 10:14:17 PM »
This does not surprise me as optical SPDIF typically only supports upto 96khz.


Many higher end pro audio gear does not support above 96khz on optical I/o (I.e. Lunate. V3, sound devices usbpre2, etc)


From what I am reading around it seems some chipsets may support higher rates but it seems they do this by playing tricks (I.e. By using multiple 96khz channels to split a 192khz signal into).   This means they are not following official standards - which Sony almost always will do - see all the threads about how original adopters of the d50 couldn't get the them to lock to v3's or sd usbpre2's until grace and sound devices released firmware updates to align the output of their AD's with the true SPDIF standards that sony's d50 was locked too.


BTW Why would any one use the D100 as a playback device in this fashion - why not get a real DAC unit like the sony pha-2, Teqc ud-501, fostex hp-a4, etc and use a computer to playback your endless library of hidef content using Foobar 2000 or other program.  Or just not use the standard line out of the d100 if you are truely in a pinch


Sony at some point may release a firmware update to allow 192khz via optical if their design supports this but I would doubt this

« Last Edit: May 18, 2014, 10:41:51 PM by H₂O »
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Offline sunflute

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 - optical input at pcm 192k
« Reply #348 on: May 20, 2014, 11:25:57 AM »
I can report that I started recording at 192k via the optical input from the RME Babyface into the PCM-D100 and so far no problems.
I'll report if I run into problems when recording at greater lengths, time wise.
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Offline H₂O

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Re: Sony PCM-D100
« Reply #349 on: May 20, 2014, 11:54:34 AM »
I can report that I started recording at 192k via the optical input from the RME Babyface into the PCM-D100 and so far no problems.
I'll report if I run into problems when recording at greater lengths, time wise.

That's good news - the original poster is looking for 192Khz output - Any luck with the D100 outputing 192Khz via optical?
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Offline Amir

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Re: Sony PCM-D100
« Reply #350 on: May 31, 2014, 05:23:26 AM »
I've been working with my PCM-D100 over the past few days and must say that the experience has been mostly positive. If, however, you're opting for something truly challenging, go straight to number 5 below.
1. The PCM-D100  has ultra-quiet preamps. And when I say "quiet," I do mean it. Not only are its internal mics quiet, but connecting dynamic microphones to it via an XLR-to-mini cable results in superb audio recordings. Beyerdynamic M58 and M99 shine when paired with the D100 -- I wasn't expecting that with the former. With dynamic mics only my USBPre2 can surpass the D100. The D100 is, without a doubt, a definite improvement over the D50 in terms of noise and overall audio representation.
2. The use of the windscreen is a must. Well, what can I say? That was also the case with the D50 which I didn't own but saw in action several times. Even small movements of the D100 in a room results in air coming into contact with the internal mics and audio gets distorted. The included windscreen is a top performer, though, blocking that effect without muffling high frequencies.
3. If internal mics are plastic, the metal cage is quite tough -- like the rest of the recorder. In short, damaging the mics isn't an easy job as they are properly guarded by a metal cage. The D100 isn't exactly light -- like the M10, but the metal case looks and feels quite professional in hand and in the field. Were I a little too unfair, I'd say the D100 chassis blows the mostly metal Olympus LS-100 out of water. The D100 might not totally do that when it comes to looks, but it achieves such a feat when it comes to sonic features, noise and ease of functionality.
4. Perhaps the best internal mics on a portable recorder? I say "perhaps" because I've had the chance to own the M10, the LS-100 and the D100 so far and have worked with the H4N, the H2N, the H6 and the D50 over the past couple of years. Very simply put, the D100's internal mics generate a well-balanced audio, with highs, mids and lows reflected quite neutrally. Unlike, say, the H6, its mics aren't sibilant at all. Neal Ewers -- whose PCM-D100 podcast can be found in this same thread -- also confirms my point about sibilance.
5. Headphones -- what to use? I'm confused by what seems to be a strange decision on Sony's part. Now here comes the irksome problem. I'm using Senal SMH-1000 headphones -- http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/755659-REG/Senal_SMH_1000_STUDIO_MONITOR_HEADPHONES.html . For a few days I was thinking that I can't get up close to the D100's mics -- internal or external -- as the audio would be noticeably distorted. However, the distortion goes away if you listen to your recordings on the computer. It's definitely there when monitoring via headphones -- regardless of the headphone volume, and is really annoying. Neal also confirms that he can duplicate this weird effect with a few headphone pairs other than the famous Sony MDR-7506. So Sony has apparently done something to the D100 headphone preamps in favor of its own headphones -- at least the 7506.
Now if monitoring via something like the SMH-1000 has become very difficult, the question is which headphones you recommend to take care of the problem? I don't like the 7506 due to its long, non-removable cable. As far as I can tell, Sony doesn't recommend any specific headphones for the D100 on its regional websites, leaving the field open to all sorts of interpretations. I'm currently leaning toward Beyerdynamic T51P -- http://www.amazon.com/Beyerdynamic-T51P-Tesla-Headphone-Silver/dp/B00ELAIHDM , but can't test the thing before purchasing it. Once purchased, it can't be returned -- as strange as that might sound. So have you tested that one with the D100 for monitoring? I'd appreciate your suggestions and D100-specific headphone recommendations.

Offline AB52

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Re: Sony PCM-D100
« Reply #351 on: May 31, 2014, 03:08:16 PM »
I use these headphones with the D50 with great success - especially for hearing what is actually going in the recorder - because the headphones have great isolation characteristics. http://www.amazon.com/Beyerdynamic-770-PRO-250-ohms/dp/B0006NL5SM

If you just want audio fidelity - and not worried about sound blockage - these headphones are better than the sony 7506 IMHO:

http://www.amazon.com/Beyerdynamic-770-PRO-250-ohms/dp/B0006NL5SM
« Last Edit: May 31, 2014, 06:33:49 PM by AB52 »

Offline Amir

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Re: Sony PCM-D100
« Reply #352 on: May 31, 2014, 10:13:06 PM »
I use these headphones with the D50 with great success - especially for hearing what is actually going in the recorder - because the headphones have great isolation characteristics. http://www.amazon.com/Beyerdynamic-770-PRO-250-ohms/dp/B0006NL5SM

If you just want audio fidelity - and not worried about sound blockage - these headphones are better than the sony 7506 IMHO:

http://www.amazon.com/Beyerdynamic-770-PRO-250-ohms/dp/B0006NL5SM

Thanks. May I ask if you've also tested them with the PCM-D100? As far as I can tell, the PCM-D50 doesn't exhibit the headphone glitch affecting the D100.
I'd like to know which headphones D100 owners here use.

Offline AB52

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Re: Sony PCM-D100
« Reply #353 on: June 01, 2014, 12:28:38 AM »
I have not tested it with the D100.   The AT D50 headphones are very efficient

Offline AB52

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Re: Sony PCM-D100
« Reply #354 on: June 01, 2014, 12:35:13 AM »
I have not tested it with the D100.   The headphone analysis where somehow it would work better with Sony headphones makes no sense to me at all.  Now if a pair of headphones is leaking audio information into the microphones of the unit - that can cause feedback - but that should happen with any manufacturer's headphones where the headphone sound is getting close to the microphones.  I closed paid like the beyerdynamic headphones I mentioned above should work fine.  Perhaps ask someone at B and H which has a return policy to try it with the headphones and see if they experience the problem.

Offline Amir

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Re: Sony PCM-D100
« Reply #355 on: June 01, 2014, 12:46:08 AM »
I have not tested it with the D100.   The headphone analysis where somehow it would work better with Sony headphones makes no sense to me at all.  Now if a pair of headphones is leaking audio information into the microphones of the unit - that can cause feedback - but that should happen with any manufacturer's headphones where the headphone sound is getting close to the microphones.  I closed paid like the beyerdynamic headphones I mentioned above should work fine.  Perhaps ask someone at B and H which has a return policy to try it with the headphones and see if they experience the problem.

First, the Senal SMH-1000 headphones don't leak audio at all -- they're quite superb in that regard, and the problem isn't audio leakage either to begin with. The issue is that you feel distorted audio being recorded when monitoring via headphones if you move a bit close to the D100 mics -- something which is absent when listening to its recordings on the computer via the very same headphones.
Second, Sony's propensity for its own headphones in the case of PCM-D100 doesn't make sense to me either, but so far evidence points to this conclusion. And it's not only Senal SMH-1000 -- I can mention other problematic headphones if desired. After all, so far the MDR-7506 has been found to be immune. That's why I'm trying to figure out which headphones people are using with the D100 -- not the D50. I'm not sure if your D50 experience can be translated to the D100.

Offline Amir

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Re: Sony PCM-D100
« Reply #356 on: June 02, 2014, 02:35:55 PM »
An update on the headphone-related problem.
I went ahead and purchased Beyerdynamic T51P from the company's reseller -- also check http://www.amazon.com/Beyerdynamic-T51P-Tesla-Headphone-Silver/dp/B00ELAIHDM .
I'm very happy to report that now the audio distortion problem is gone! I can also get quite close to the microphones without any strange audio problems whatsoever.
So if you want to purchase the PCM-D100 from B&H and are also in need of headphones, definitely avoid their recommended Senal SMH-1000 -- it's awful for use with the D100. B&H recommends this headphone -- http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/755659-REG/Senal_SMH_1000_STUDIO_MONITOR_HEADPHONES.html -- for all recorders, without bothering to test its recommended product with them. It's just that Senal SMH-1000, as fantastic as it sounds, isn't the D100's heavenly match.
What's more, I should correct the assumption that Sony favors its own headphones with the PCM-D100 -- the T51P clearly indicates that it doesn't. However, this Beyerdynamic product is almost $300, meaning the D100 isn't forgiving with headphones at all. Even now I can feel the D100's powerful stereo separation with the T51P -- something which was impossible with Senal SMH-1000. The bottom line is that an $800 recorder requires, ahem, premium headphones for proper monitoring!

Offline Amir

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Re: Sony PCM-D100
« Reply #357 on: June 03, 2014, 11:19:17 PM »
The newly uploaded B&H Sony PCM-D100 video can be watched here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MLbGsfduvU&feature=youtube_gdata

Offline spyder9

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Re: Sony PCM-D100
« Reply #358 on: June 20, 2014, 07:25:45 AM »

Offline spyder9

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Re: Sony PCM-D100
« Reply #359 on: June 20, 2014, 11:21:07 AM »
Ok.  I'm in.  I just bought one. 

I used to own a D50 but it sounded too strident.  I believed it made dogs bark from a mile away.  I quickly returned it and I've been a happy M10 owner ever since.


I'm buying the D100 because:

1)  Better sound.  Way better sound.  The samples above sold me.  Very natural to the ear.  Though I heart the M10, I always thought it was light in the bass department.

2)  Optical in/out.  Gives me more options.

3) 32GB on board memory  You never have enough space.  I should be able to cover Lockn with this and 1 sd card as backup space.

4)  The Latch over the dual gain knob.  Huge.   My Aerco cannot dial-in gain between the channels.  I tape down the single knob on the M10.


DSD doesn't matter to me.  Maybe in a couple of years, when good editing software becomes available.
   
 




 
« Last Edit: June 21, 2014, 08:22:35 PM by spyder9 »

 

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