Become a Site Supporter and Never see Ads again!

Author Topic: Nagra LINO  (Read 34418 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline noahbickart

  • phishrabbi
  • Site Supporter
  • Trade Count: (33)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *
  • Posts: 2554
  • Gender: Male
  • So now I wander over grounds of light...
Re: Nagra LINO
« Reply #30 on: March 21, 2013, 06:53:39 AM »
And Nagra are sticklers for the quality of their ADC/DAC and analogue circuitry, so I am sure they would have gone over this thoroughly and not taken a stock unit.

I would love for you to be correct. But compare the specs from the manuals above. It seems to me hat the "Nagra" and the "AEQ" are the same piece of gear with slightly different firmware.

If Nagra changed the internals, I'd like to see proof of that- not simple assertions that they must have.

All indications from the supplied literature are that the only thing Nagra about this is the name on the case.
Recording:
Capsules: Schoeps mk41v (x2), mk22 (x2), mk3 (x2), mk21 & mk8
Cables: 2x nbob KCY, 1 pair nbob actives, GAKables 10' & 20' 6-channel snakes, Darktrain 2 & 4 channel KCY and mini xlr extensions:
Preamps:    Schoeps VMS 02iub, Naiant IPA, Sound Devices Mixpre6 I
Recorders: Sound Devices Mixpre6 I, Sony PCM m10

Home Playback: Mac Mini> Mytek Brooklyn+> McIntosh MC162> Eminent Tech LFT-16; Musical Fidelity xCan v2> Hifiman HE-4XX / Beyerdynamic DT880

Office Playback: iMac> Grace m903> AKG k701 / Hifiman HE-400

Offline BitRater

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Taperssection Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 24
    • Gizmo Planet Electronics Reviews
Re: Nagra LINO
« Reply #31 on: May 16, 2014, 01:56:46 PM »
Might as well buy the OEM gear.

This is a Chinese unit, which seems to be used by AEQ as well.

http://www.aeq.eu/products/digital-portable-recorder

We should figure out which Chinese factory makes the thing and buy 100 of them, and get them branded as the TS.com DAR1000x. I bet we could get the price down to the m10 range, which, given the specs, seems just about right.

Maybe they should call it the NINO...

"Nagra In Name Only"

I'll play along...

LINO = Less Impressive Nagra Option

I'd rather Nagra stayed out of China altogether and never put their name on this.  Hopefully Sound Devices never stoops to this.

Sorry for responding to a necropost here, but I felt I had to respond. What Nagra are doing is the same thing everyone else is doing, and that is going downmarket.
The reason for the downmarket trend is that consumers and professional users of specialized audio equipment are broke, because of the way the global economy is
going. Nobody has the cash anymore to shell out $1K + for recorders like the very similar Nagra SD. Plus a lot of people are thinking, 'why shell out this kind of money for
a dedicated recorder when I can do the same thing with my iPhone?' and that is also putting downward pressure on prices.

Offline noahbickart

  • phishrabbi
  • Site Supporter
  • Trade Count: (33)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *
  • Posts: 2554
  • Gender: Male
  • So now I wander over grounds of light...
Re: Nagra LINO
« Reply #32 on: May 16, 2014, 05:34:58 PM »
Fair enough. You've no doubt correctly explained their thinking. And it might actually be a good recorder.

However, I think it is dishonest to take an OEM product, slap your name on it and increase the price based only on the brand.
Recording:
Capsules: Schoeps mk41v (x2), mk22 (x2), mk3 (x2), mk21 & mk8
Cables: 2x nbob KCY, 1 pair nbob actives, GAKables 10' & 20' 6-channel snakes, Darktrain 2 & 4 channel KCY and mini xlr extensions:
Preamps:    Schoeps VMS 02iub, Naiant IPA, Sound Devices Mixpre6 I
Recorders: Sound Devices Mixpre6 I, Sony PCM m10

Home Playback: Mac Mini> Mytek Brooklyn+> McIntosh MC162> Eminent Tech LFT-16; Musical Fidelity xCan v2> Hifiman HE-4XX / Beyerdynamic DT880

Office Playback: iMac> Grace m903> AKG k701 / Hifiman HE-400

Offline John Willett

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Taperssection All-Star
  • ****
  • Posts: 1550
  • Gender: Male
  • Bio:
    • Sound-Link ProAudio
Re: Nagra LINO
« Reply #33 on: May 17, 2014, 09:37:16 AM »
However, I think it is dishonest to take an OEM product, slap your name on it and increase the price based only on the brand.

What makes you think Nagra have done this?

The only thing is that the LINO looks like the OEM unit.

How do you know that Nagra did not redesign the analogue audio section and specify higher internal quality?

I certainly know of other manufacturers who took an OEM basic unit and then specified very different internal electronics.

Nagra can save a lot of design budget by taking an OEM body - they can then specify their own internal design of the microphone amplifiers and audio circuits etc. at a reasonable cost and come up with a cost-effective recorder of high quality.

Have you had the Nagra and the OEM side-by-side and compared and measured them?

Just because one thing looks like another, does not mean that it will perform like the other.


Offline BitRater

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Taperssection Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 24
    • Gizmo Planet Electronics Reviews
Re: Nagra LINO
« Reply #34 on: May 17, 2014, 10:05:14 AM »
However, I think it is dishonest to take an OEM product, slap your name on it and increase the price based only on the brand.

What makes you think Nagra have done this?

The only thing is that the LINO looks like the OEM unit.

How do you know that Nagra did not redesign the analogue audio section and specify higher internal quality?

I certainly know of other manufacturers who took an OEM basic unit and then specified very different internal electronics.

Nagra can save a lot of design budget by taking an OEM body - they can then specify their own internal design of the microphone amplifiers and audio circuits etc. at a reasonable cost and come up with a cost-effective recorder of high quality.

Have you had the Nagra and the OEM side-by-side and compared and measured them?

Just because one thing looks like another, does not mean that it will perform like the other.

This makes perfect sense to me, because using another company's OEM cosmetics will help a company like Nagra sell a new recorder at a pre-determined price rather than have to take out features or make compromises elsewhere to do the same thing.

Offline spyder9

  • Trade Count: (82)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 13195
  • Gender: Male
  • "Are you Zman?"
    • My Archived shows
Re: Nagra LINO
« Reply #35 on: May 18, 2014, 01:16:49 PM »
I seriously doubt Nagra re-engineered the innards of this recorder.  They just slapped their name on it and marked up the price. 

Below is an Asian exporter selling it as the "Looto L300" for $346.17 USD shipped.    Case closed.

http://en.zakazexpert.com/index.php/taobao/view/id/14034957895
 
« Last Edit: May 18, 2014, 01:21:39 PM by spyder9 »

runonce

  • Guest
  • Trade Count: (0)
Re: Nagra LINO
« Reply #36 on: May 18, 2014, 03:52:35 PM »
Lots of mics these days have the same cosmetics...Avantone and Busman come to mind-but totally different innards...not sure it would be any different with recorders. Seems to be the hallmark of Chinese manufacturing

Offline andromedanwarmachine

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Taperssection Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 267
  • Gender: Male
  • waiting for the perfect thunder storm
Re: Nagra LINO
« Reply #37 on: May 20, 2014, 03:53:02 PM »
well put John.

Nagra have far too high a profile and reputation to fool around with this kind of thing.

They rarely conform to market trends and cut their own cloth in terms of feature priority.

A distinct product will be just that. Horses for courses.

I have a DR 07 which I never worry about leaving around- this machine is their answer (albeit at a price) to that end of things
Phillips N2233 "full auto shutoff"> Aiwa HSF-150 (x2)> Sony WM-D6C (x2)> Sony TCD-D3> Sony MZ-R3> Marantz PMD-650> Sony MZ-RH1> HHB Portadisc> Macbook 13"& M-box 2 +ProTools 8! and now Nagra LB!

http://soundcloud.com/andromedanwarmachine
http://soundcloud.com/bells-of-scotland
http://soundcloud.com/bells-of-the-world

Offline Gutbucket

  • record > listen > revise technique
  • Trade Count: (16)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 15700
  • Gender: Male
  • "Better to love music than respect it" ~Stravinsky
Re: Nagra LINO
« Reply #38 on: May 20, 2014, 04:40:13 PM »
Little but speculation from all sides as I see it.

Until someone actually bench tests these things, it's all a 'who do you trust' game.  If Nagra is not simply leveraging the historically well deserved goodwill value of their name (as yet undisputed for them, yet the trend towards doing so is increasingly common with plenty of other 'famous quality' brands across a wide variety of alternate market segments), they would do well to back up that good reputation with solid justification: explain in detail the actual differences, show the differences in specification, show resulting test data, perhaps even offering sample comparison recordings.  If serious about persuing this relatively new market segment (for them), Nagra has plenty to gain, and little to loose in doing so, unless things don't stack up. 

The onus is on Nagra to demonstrate their identical appearing recorder superior in ways other than name brand reputation.  If they choose not to do so, their reticence and silence speaks volumes IMO.  The suspicion is already out there and apparently growing.  They need to do something about it.  Supporters begging others to "trust them" is not them doing something.
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

Offline mysticeyes

  • Trade Count: (21)
  • Taperssection Regular
  • **
  • Posts: 192
Re: Nagra LINO
« Reply #39 on: May 20, 2014, 05:01:11 PM »
How do you know the insides are not exactly the same? Empiricism works far better than faith, reverence or mythology.

Offline 2manyrocks

  • Trade Count: (12)
  • Taperssection All-Star
  • ****
  • Posts: 1664
Re: Nagra LINO
« Reply #40 on: May 20, 2014, 05:20:01 PM »
It's a bit puzzling why Nagra offers a product in this price range instead of sticking to their really high end recorders. 

What does this product offer that would compel someone to buy it instead of a Sony or any other recorder that could be had for less money?

Offline John Willett

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Taperssection All-Star
  • ****
  • Posts: 1550
  • Gender: Male
  • Bio:
    • Sound-Link ProAudio
Re: Nagra LINO
« Reply #41 on: May 21, 2014, 04:48:39 AM »
I seriously doubt Nagra re-engineered the innards of this recorder.  They just slapped their name on it and marked up the price. 

Why do you say this?  What evidence do you have?

I certainly know that Nagra had internal changes when they used an OEM body in the past.

They may not have changed everything, but I certainly would have thought that they would upgrade parts of the analogue circuitry.

Offline John Willett

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Taperssection All-Star
  • ****
  • Posts: 1550
  • Gender: Male
  • Bio:
    • Sound-Link ProAudio
Re: Nagra LINO
« Reply #42 on: May 21, 2014, 04:58:22 AM »
It's a bit puzzling why Nagra offers a product in this price range instead of sticking to their really high end recorders. 

To make a company viable.  There is a large market for portable recorders and Nagre need money to pay for the development for their top end recorders.


What does this product offer that would compel someone to buy it instead of a Sony or any other recorder that could be had for less money?

Because it's a "Nagra" and a professional user gets excellent back-up from them as well as proven reliability.

Offline noahbickart

  • phishrabbi
  • Site Supporter
  • Trade Count: (33)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *
  • Posts: 2554
  • Gender: Male
  • So now I wander over grounds of light...
Re: Nagra LINO
« Reply #43 on: May 21, 2014, 08:04:19 AM »
Folks:

Read this thread, and you will see that the specs for the Nagra and the OEM devic are the same. The manuals are identical. The only difference is the badge.
Recording:
Capsules: Schoeps mk41v (x2), mk22 (x2), mk3 (x2), mk21 & mk8
Cables: 2x nbob KCY, 1 pair nbob actives, GAKables 10' & 20' 6-channel snakes, Darktrain 2 & 4 channel KCY and mini xlr extensions:
Preamps:    Schoeps VMS 02iub, Naiant IPA, Sound Devices Mixpre6 I
Recorders: Sound Devices Mixpre6 I, Sony PCM m10

Home Playback: Mac Mini> Mytek Brooklyn+> McIntosh MC162> Eminent Tech LFT-16; Musical Fidelity xCan v2> Hifiman HE-4XX / Beyerdynamic DT880

Office Playback: iMac> Grace m903> AKG k701 / Hifiman HE-400

Offline spyder9

  • Trade Count: (82)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 13195
  • Gender: Male
  • "Are you Zman?"
    • My Archived shows
Re: Nagra LINO
« Reply #44 on: May 21, 2014, 11:19:29 AM »
I seriously doubt Nagra re-engineered the innards of this recorder.  They just slapped their name on it and marked up the price. 

Why do you say this?  What evidence do you have?

I certainly know that Nagra had internal changes when they used an OEM body in the past.

They may not have changed everything, but I certainly would have thought that they would upgrade parts of the analogue circuitry.


AKG  They blazed the trail on low cost, high profit-margin goods.  "Just put our name on it and it will sell"  Everyone's a whore when it comes to easy money.   Tascam is another example.  Their firmware is just tweaked between all their recorders.  Why build new firmware for each recorder, when you already built one that's bug-free.  Money.  That's what it's all about.  Money.   

What exactly would Nagra improve?  OP amps?  3.5mm connectors?  Why would they allow AEQ, Lotoo, or any other company sell something identical?  Why use the same body?  Why not build your own like Korg did?  Manuals look exactly the same for each recorder?  Why?  After all they're supposed to be Nagra.  Cutting edge.  Leader.  Correct?  How embarrassing.  You cannot convince me this is not a re-badge.  Can't.  I'm sticking to my guns on this one.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2014, 10:26:46 AM by spyder9 »

 

RSS | Mobile
Page created in 0.081 seconds with 43 queries.
© 2002-2024 Taperssection.com
Powered by SMF