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Author Topic: Nagra LINO  (Read 34687 times)

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Offline 2manyrocks

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Re: Nagra LINO
« Reply #45 on: May 21, 2014, 12:19:30 PM »
It's a bit puzzling why Nagra offers a product in this price range instead of sticking to their really high end recorders. 

To make a company viable.  There is a large market for portable recorders and Nagre need money to pay for the development for their top end recorders.


What does this product offer that would compel someone to buy it instead of a Sony or any other recorder that could be had for less money?

Because it's a "Nagra" and a professional user gets excellent back-up from them as well as proven reliability.

Cadillac dealers tried to sell a Cadillac version of the Chevrolet Nova in the late 1970's, and it just didn't fly with Cadillac customers who weren't going to pay a Cadillac price for what they perceived as a rebranded Chevrolet Nova. If Nagra attempted to upscale an existing recorder in the market, that may be a hard sell to skeptical customers.   

On the other hand, the chinese are known for making inferior copies of good products.  It could be the other units are chinese knock offs.

 



Offline spyder9

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Re: Nagra LINO
« Reply #46 on: May 21, 2014, 02:20:27 PM »

It's entirely possible if not likely that Nagra specified a design that was then rebranded into that great grey market of OEM goods.

Yeah, 2 years, 2 models in a row?

Nagra SD debuts in 2012, 6 months before  Infomedia releases the Paw V

http://radiomagonline.com/studio_audio/recording/field_report_nagra_sd_0112/

http://radiomagonline.com/studio_audio/recording/infomedia-paw-v-0712/


AEQ debuts the L300 at NAB 2012, Nagra debuts the Lino at NAB 2013

http://www.panoramaaudiovisual.com/en/2012/03/26/aeq-mostrara-en-nab-sus-novedades-para-el-mercado-broadcast/

http://vod.com.ng/en/video/y0ZaZ0pPi1w/NAB-2013-NAGRA-Lino


Offline noahbickart

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Recording:
Capsules: Schoeps mk41v (x2), mk22 (x2), mk3 (x2), mk21 & mk8
Cables: 2x nbob KCY, 1 pair nbob actives, GAKables 10' & 20' 6-channel snakes, Darktrain 2 & 4 channel KCY and mini xlr extensions:
Preamps:    Schoeps VMS 02iub, Naiant IPA, Sound Devices Mixpre6 I
Recorders: Sound Devices Mixpre6 I, Sony PCM m10

Home Playback: Mac Mini> Mytek Brooklyn+> McIntosh MC162> Eminent Tech LFT-16; Musical Fidelity xCan v2> Hifiman HE-4XX / Beyerdynamic DT880

Office Playback: iMac> Grace m903> AKG k701 / Hifiman HE-400

runonce

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Re: Nagra LINO
« Reply #48 on: May 22, 2014, 08:10:57 AM »
I think you guys are giving them a bum rap...

Its not like NAGRA is pimping this thing as the "Nagra Eight"...

Its listed/marketed in their "Pro" line - in the "Radio/Broadcast" category...and NOT part of the Music category!

It is NOT part of their "High End" offerings.

Also - note the Nagra SD is pretty much the same device with their proprietary(?) mic added...so - there might be an incentive to order a shit load of "LINOs" - knowing they are going to re-manufacture/mod them for the SD model.

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Nagra LINO
« Reply #49 on: May 22, 2014, 05:47:09 PM »
The relevant question is whether the bum rap is deserved or not.

Regardless of the valid concerns raised about this from the equipment perspective, discussion of how such a thing can happen and the value of branding and good customer support, and overlooking the typical vacuous lowest-common denominator marketing speak in sales literature, I'd expect Nagra to at least proof-read releases for blatant errors. 

The promotion of an all too common misunderstanding about the basics of how digital audio works by way of a misleading illustration in their sales materials should not have escaped the critical eye of a 'top quality' digital audio manufacturer and industry leader.  I can only assume they overlooked this little illustrative detail, because its simply unacceptable to those of us attempting to explain how digital audio actually works, over and over again, when even Nagra's literature gets it wrong. 

How many pages have been filled at TS alone discussing the actual differences between 16 and 24bit audio recording?

My circle and arrow in green from this screen shot of the PDF leaflet (illustration labeled identically on both the AEQ and Nagra leaflets)-
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

Offline noahbickart

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Re: Nagra LINO
« Reply #50 on: May 22, 2014, 06:01:02 PM »
That's because it isn't a Nagra. Nagra didn't build it. Nagra didn't even write the literature it sends out with the gear. Nagra only had its logo slapped on an Chinese OEM piece of gear, and *perhaps* tweaked the firmware a little.

They have besmirched their good name, and deserve to be called out on it.
Recording:
Capsules: Schoeps mk41v (x2), mk22 (x2), mk3 (x2), mk21 & mk8
Cables: 2x nbob KCY, 1 pair nbob actives, GAKables 10' & 20' 6-channel snakes, Darktrain 2 & 4 channel KCY and mini xlr extensions:
Preamps:    Schoeps VMS 02iub, Naiant IPA, Sound Devices Mixpre6 I
Recorders: Sound Devices Mixpre6 I, Sony PCM m10

Home Playback: Mac Mini> Mytek Brooklyn+> McIntosh MC162> Eminent Tech LFT-16; Musical Fidelity xCan v2> Hifiman HE-4XX / Beyerdynamic DT880

Office Playback: iMac> Grace m903> AKG k701 / Hifiman HE-400

runonce

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Re: Nagra LINO
« Reply #51 on: May 22, 2014, 09:56:05 PM »
I'll give them credit for throwing in the towel when it comes to certain market/spec...what should they do? Engineer a boutique product that does more or less the same thing, same price, but looks more "Nagra-y"???

If they feel an OEM product meets their spec - (which is as much about function, as sound, in this category) - then I have no problem with them sticking their stamp of a approval on a OEM product.

It's clear they're still making the high-end niche gear...but they made their name by having the best reel to reel tape transport - that ship has sailed...and world of media production has changed as well.

Now they make a gear that seems to have been engineered with a very specific use/end product (aside from great fidelity!)

And they have what looks like a few more OEM handhelds...I guess these are used a lot in you work in some areas of the broadcast industry.

Offline 2manyrocks

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Re: Nagra LINO
« Reply #52 on: May 23, 2014, 06:21:17 PM »
If Nagra had asked me whether to bring a handheld recorder to the already crowded handheld recorder market, one question I would have asked them is whether putting the Nagra name on any handheld recorder gives credence to the status of handheld recorders?  That is, it could be argued that Nagra should have stuck to its high end recorders as being the exclusive high end of recording and just not marketed any handheld recorder at all. 

Having entered the handheld market, how does Nagra convince  customers that its handheld recorder is better than the other offerings? 

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Nagra LINO
« Reply #53 on: May 24, 2014, 12:24:55 AM »
All important core function stuff. Nagra appropriate serious focus. This target customer replies, yes please.

Its not about Credence, just ask the dude.
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

Offline WiFiJeff

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Re: Nagra LINO
« Reply #54 on: May 26, 2014, 11:27:18 AM »
I have been following this thread and have been surprised not to find any analysis of the sound achieveable with the Nagra Lino.  I have also not been able to locate online any reviews of the machine, although it has been out there long enough to expect some of these.  After all, I don't care if all Nagra does is sprinkle pixie dust on a pencil sharpener, if the results are good.

Last fall I lost battery power to my Grace V3 during a piano recital.  At the end oif the piece during which the battery died I re-routed the mic cables into the mic-in ports of my Sonosax MiniR82.  Luckily a friend in the audience was stealthing the recital with a Sony D50 using internal mics, although his tape was flatter and more tiring to listen to than mine (phew!) I managed to match levels and patch the missing section (about 5 minutes) into my tape.  No one (including recordists who were trained pianists who had played the piece involved) could locate the patch or even come very close.

Since then I have 1) switched to using a Sound Devices 633, with triple power back-up (internal AAs and two 7.2V camcorder snap-on batteries); and 2) used a shaver recorder with its internal mics to make a backup.  I had hoped to use my old Sony D1, but it had a dead channel and Sony wouldn't service it any longer.  So I bought a Nagra Lino.   I have used the backup only once, when, still learning the 633, I hit the record button the wrong way and missed 5 seconds of program while I figured out what was happening.  The patch from the Lino was also seamless.  When the D1 was repaired (third party) I did a comparison, but unfortunately did not keep the files (and I have regularly tossed my backups when not needed, as thankfully has been the case).  My memory of the sound I got then was

#1 and winner, big expensive equipment (how embarrassing if not!)
#2 Nagra Lino on mic stand
#3 Sony D1 ditto
#4 Audience tape using Sony D50 and DPA4060s, about 3-4X the distance as the others, in unknown but clearly sub-optimal configuration.

I hope to do another comparison of the Lino with the D1 in the next few weeks.  In the meantime, I have three clips you can use to compare the Lino to better gear.  My setup was a Josephson C700S with X and Y capsules into Sound Devices MP1s and line-in to the 633 (W went mic-in, but was not used in the clip, which is a Blumlein stereo mix).  The mic was centered and about 6-7 feet up.  A few inches below it was the Lino.  A friend brought his own stand and a Speiden SF-12 stereo ribbon mic (precursor of the Royer SF-12), it was about 2 feet above my C700S and ran Blumlein configuration into mic-ins of the 633.  Anyone who wants to hear this PM me and I'll send a link to 16/44.1 files (recorded originally 24/96) of the three clips (about 9 minutes each).  Then PM me for which is which, I'm interested also in your guesses, though here the Lino is pretty obviously not as good (to me).

Jeff

Offline spyder9

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Re: Nagra LINO
« Reply #55 on: May 27, 2014, 12:01:48 PM »

  • intuitive menus. According to reviews I have seen, they did write their own firmware and got that right.



Links please?  Most of the comments I read of such were from fanboys, not actual reviewers.   

Offline spyder9

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Re: Nagra LINO
« Reply #56 on: May 27, 2014, 04:49:47 PM »
fair enough

Offline WiFiJeff

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Re: Nagra LINO
« Reply #57 on: June 01, 2014, 11:14:40 AM »
Well I'm not under the illusion that there's a huge interest (my last post got ONE pm for a link), but I did do a comparison of the Lino with the Sony D1 and D50 (both with mics in XY configuration), on a piano.  All three machines were on a stand flanking (and a bit below) a Jecklin Disk with Josephson C617 omni mics with MK102.1 (LD) caps.  I got the levels pretty close except for the D50, where I had to boost by 6dB, otherwise there is no editing on the files other than reducing from 24/96 to 16/44.1.  PM me for a link to all four samples (about 3 minutes each),  I'm interested in which you prefer and any guesses on who's who.  I might do a Lino/Zoom H6 comparison in a few weeks, if there's interest.

Jeff

Offline glennjr

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Re: Nagra LINO
« Reply #58 on: January 27, 2015, 02:00:52 PM »
8 months on...Has there been any conclusions on this topic?
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Offline audBall

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Re: Nagra LINO
« Reply #59 on: January 27, 2015, 06:08:43 PM »
8 months on...Has there been any conclusions on this topic?

Nah, this is TS. We simply rehash and rebute.
mg m20.21.23 ■ akg ck61.62.63 »  nbob■naiant
aercomp2 ■ v2∞3 ■ sx-m2d2
d100 ■ pmd661 ■ r44ocm ■ f3

 

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