Topic: Would like to use a mic for vocals; have little knowledge on what I need

[tbger]

Basically I need a microphone, and a device to adequately power it, at home for tests.

So far I've only done stealth recording with miniature microphones, I've never messed with 'full size' mics which I think, are the way to go for vocals.

As I stated I know very little about this kind of microphones.  I'm not expecting anyone to explain everything they know, but to advice me on what I need to be having in order to record vocals at home.  It's mainly for experiments, so I won't be spending a whole lot into that.  I would like to avoid the use of batteries and take advantage of recording at home.

It shouldn't
I'm not crazy about ultra great quality and so on, though I'd like it to not add anything like noise and whatnot.

I'd thought on getting a mixer to do some recordings, but that wouldn't not get much use right now as I don't have the time.  Though I won't get equipment that worth the value of a mixer for just phantom powered mics.

Tried to throw in everything I had in mind ... obviously unorganized or even unreasonable (apologize in advance).


Hope to get some help here, thanks a lot for reading.

[DigiGal]

One extremely popular (non-powered) dynamic stage vocal mic is the Shure SM58 or their higher output version the Beta 58A.  No battery or phantom power is needed for either of these.

[tbger]

Thank you.  Does the same apply for the SM-57 as well ?

[DigiGal]

There is very little price difference between the 57 and 58 models.

The 58's are a better choice for vocals because they have a built-in spherical filter that minimizes wind and breath "pop" noise and a proven shock-mount system.
SM58




The 57's are also dynamic mic's that do not need battery or phantom power.  They are more commonly used on instruments or guitar amps etc. but could be used for vocals too.
SM57

[12milluz]

I'd recommend the 58 as well. The 58 is the same electronically as the 57, but the 57 is designed for applications that don't need the ball filter like instruments as DigiGal said. Great multi-use mics that I have used on many things other than vocals too.

[tbger]

Alright, thank both of you.  For the mini mics I have I've been using Chris Church's CA-9100 preamp.  Will I have to use a preamp here as well ?  Will I have to use anything else other than a preamp ?

FWIW, I do all my recordings on the Sony PCM-M10.

[tbger]

One more thing that is quite important to me is the microphone should be neutral, i.e. not change the character of the sound coming to it.  Otherwise it's pretty pointless to start with ...

Generally speaking, microphones fundamentally are supposed to be neural, aren't they ?

[tbger]

anyone ?

[SmokinJoe]

If you want to use an SM57 or SM58 with a CA9100, I suggest you ask Chris Church.  I believe there are transformers in those mics which effectively create a dead short on the plug-in-power circuit of the St9100.  This has been discussed before referring to Nak 300's, etc.  It won't fry it instantly, but it puts a load on it that wasn't intended, and if your CA9100 died an early death, you shouldn't be surprised.

There are many old cassette decks in this world that have a half decent preamp in them.  Plug your mic in > deck > line out from the deck > your recorder.   I've seen several people who still use their old Sony D5 as a preamp into their modern recorder.  That was my first digital recording rig... Radio Shack mics > Home Cassette Deck > line in on my laptop.  If you are at home then AC powered is fine.  You probably find a decent cassette deck in your uncle's cellar for free, or at a yard sale for $10.  Not OUR yard sale, one along side the street.  The cassette mechanism doesn't have to work, just as long as you can hit PAUSE & RECORD and it will stay there.

[ghellquist]

Why not start by experimenting with your miniature mics. They are most probably rather neutral.

Next step might be a stage microphone such as the Shure sm58. These are not neutral sounding bit instead tailored to make a voice sound good. They are generally used very close to the mouth. The true stuff comes aound the $100 mark and you might find cheaper versions. Keep a sceptic position against the no name stuff thoug, as always.

Next step might be a budget large diameter condensor. These are what are used in most recording studios. There are quite a few brands and types so it can be a bit bewildering. You use these with a preamp or mixer iwht phantom power and with a pop killer filter half a foot or so in front of it as they hear puffs of air very well. They are also very sensitive to the sound of the room and the sounds around the singer, including neighbors and the refrigerator. There are too many brands and types to really make a recommendation, I will only give one example as a start search: Studio projects B1. Most mics looks you look for looks similar but there is a large range of price.

Best tip really is to see if you can team up with someone and borrow or perhaps rent stuff. Sound can become a very expensive hobby, especially in the search phase before you know what works for your application.

Gunnar

[SmokinJoe]

If you want to step up to an LD condenser that needs phantom power, I suggest seeing the EBay posting kirkd made.  ADK's for $89 right now on a fire sale.  That's hard to beat.

[goodcooker]

I use a KAM RT1 that I got new from ebay for vocals. It cost me $30 and is every bit as good as a sm58/57 except that it has pretty low output so it requires some gain. I only sing backup/harmony so I wanted something cheap I could throw in my gear bag and not worry about.

Here's a link to one on ebay

http://www.ebay.com/itm/KAM-RT1-Vocal-Mic-more-Warmth-Clarity-than-Beta-SM58-/320750053324?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4aae3167cc

Don't rule out using a condenser if you have phantom power available

[binaryplumber]

What are you planning to 'test' for?  Everything listed in these replies is pretty much spot on. 

I would like to point out that one of the things that makes the 'full size' dynamic cardioid mics like SM58's appropriate for vocals is the ability to handhold them, move them, drag the cord around etc., and not get a bunch of 'racket' as a result.  I've dropped 'em many times on stage as a lead vocalist over the years and the do take beating very well.  I never killed a 58 yet!  The 58 has a nice little bump in the mid-range that adds nice presence.  It seems to roll way off above 12k no matter where it's placed, and down in the lowest octaves unless they are right on top of the source.  Watch a good audio/video of a performer with an SM58 and you can see them moving the mic in close and out farther away in tailoring their sound to their personal range and it's strengths, or to create the vocal presence and intimacy they may be looking for.  You can pick 'em up reasonably priced or even used and find a ready market for them if you find that they are not what you wanted.

The SM57 is very similar from a 'noise' perspective.  It lacks quite the same bump in the mid-range as the 58 has, is a bit better in the very bottom, but not really a great kick drum mic, but can be a decent electric bass amp mic.  Used often for horns, amplified guitar, etc.

I can't over state that these are not really recording mics.  They are stage performance mics.  "Dropped, beer spattered, smoke blown thru them, harmonicas banging into 'em, point 'em at the monitor almost and still don't have feedback, dropped again, thrown into into a suitcase on top of the cords until the next night" and worth every penny!

Go to the studio and nobody every asked me if I 'would like  to be using an SM58 or SM57'?  In that world the vocalist didn't touch the mans microphones.  At all (and he picked 'em)!  'Stand back' ,'watch your sibilance', 'back off even more if you're going to roar like that!'  That world had an ancient RCA ribbon mic worth thousands, or maybe a more modern AKG equivalent (still very pricey and usually they only owned one) in them and if you popped a 'P' too loud the engineer reminded you the next one was going onto the studio tab at a couple hundred bucks while he had the mic sent out and the studio used nothing till the ribbon was replaced.

So it comes back to, what are you testing for, what kind of singing, solo, duets, harmonies, what is the vocalists range, style, what dynamics can you expect from the vocalists performance, how much of the 'room' do you want to hear or ignore.  There are moderately priced attempts at large diameter condensers with all kinds of patterns (including adjustable) that need phantom power out there but I don't think $200 is gonna show you what a truly great vocal studio mic can be.  Borrow what you can from whomever you can, or get an SM58 to start with so you can at least get some of your money back if it's not what you wanted.  Plus you'll learn about one of the most common microphones in the music industry. Reply when you've tried one or more, tell us some more, and somebody out here has  some good advice for free.