Topic: Advice Needed for Recording an Acoustic Duo....

[baustin]

Looking for some advice...

I work in a restaurant here in Charleston. Every Sunday, we haved a father and son duo who play in the dining room. Really cool, we're a 4 star, 4 diamond restaurant, and they play The Doors, Sublime, Gordon Lightfoot and Pink Floyd medleys. Most people aren't really paying attention unless its especially slow in the dining room or we get them wasted.

Anyway, the son stands and plays a violin, the father sits and plays a classical guitar. The son plays unamplified, the father has a mic in his guitar and plays through a simple little amp and a single small speaker. There are no vocals. The lounge area where they play is hard wood, the dining room is green marble, so their sound travels. On the same note, the sounds of the restaurant are going to travel, too.

Basically, I'm trying to figure out the best way to mic these guys while leaving the smallest footprint. I was thinking either a card or hypercard, about 12" above the violin. Then, a hypercard about 6"-12" in front of the guitar and a patch if possible out of the amp. My only gear as of right now is a pair of Neumann u89i's, the EAA-PSP2, and a 744t. I may be able to get hold of a a pair of km184's and an m248 if need be, but like I said, I'd like to leave as small a footprint as possible. Definitely want to run the u89i's though.

Any thoughts? Feedback? Advice?

-BA

[BWolf]

I've had great luck with M/S for close acoustic. 

[mmmatt]

If you can manage to get back to about 6-10' away from them I would just throw the 89's in your favorite config and let er rip.  If you can close-mic the instruments that would be cool too, but plan on doing a remix in post.  Whatever you do don't try a config just a few feet away.  I did that for an acoustic guitar duo (Fareed and Goran) and I was dissappointed.  The 2 guitars were drastically different volumes and the sounds didn't have enough time to blend.  If you close-mic the instruments you may also try putting a pair of mics in the sweet-spot to add some room if the room sounds good.  That will mix well in post with your close mic channels.  I would reccomend not using the line out of the amp or mic'ing the guitar amp.  I think for these types of things hearing the fingers moving on the strings is key.  YMMV

matt

[dorrcoq]

I don't have any technical advice, just that since they play there every Sunday you can certainly experiment with different positionings, etc. until you find one that works.  And I'm sure when you do, the rest of us will be interested in hearing what worked best.   

[baustin]

I've had great luck with M/S for close acoustic. 

I've thought about that. However, M/S with the u89i's is not the prettiest of things to look at unless you're one of us! 

If you can manage to get back to about 6-10' away from them I would just throw the 89's in your favorite config and let er rip.... 
...plan on doing a remix in post.... 
...I would reccomend not using the line out of the amp or mic'ing the guitar amp.... 

I'm not even gonna consider setting up away from the duo. Like I said, the dining room is all marble and wood. Sounds of the dining room are gonna travel, especially if there's 80 something people in there. Plus, our guests spend well over $100 a person, so I don't want to have them looking at a pair of u89i's ORTF in the lounge. I'm hoping if I close mic them, I can at least fool the guests into thinking that my mics are part of the duo's setup. As far as a post mix and taking a line out from the amp... well, I have an extra 3rd and 4th channel on the 744t in addition to the u89i's, so I'm gonna try to capture as much info in one shot as possible. I was planning on doing a post mix in Wavelab. Try to keep a stereo image.

I don't have any technical advice, just that since they play there every Sunday you can certainly experiment with different positionings, etc. until you find one that works.  And I'm sure when you do, the rest of us will be interested in hearing what worked best.   

It'd be nice if I was guaranteed every Sunday off!  My friends' band also plays Sunday nights on a patio behind a bar right on the water. So it's actually a tough desicion. Hmmm... Night off from work... Do I go sit at work and sip on wine and eat or do I go pound margaritas and listen to my friends' band play with a breeze blowing in my face. Or do I sit on my fat ass at home and watch TV? 

The results will be shared here though!

Thanks for the input! Keep it coming.

-ba

[RebelRebel]

I would throw ORTF up as the main pair, and in addition to that, spot mic the violin with the 184. If the room acoustics are good id swap out ORTF for blumlein.what you should do is cup a hand over one ear and walk around until you get the best sort of balance. Covering one ear prevents binaural processing(which will skew results as to where it sounds best) and will really give you a great idea of where the best blend is. so yeah, main pair(ortf or blumlein) and then a spot on the violin. The amp guy has the advantage so you want to help the acoustic guy out a bit. I dont think you will get a proper balance with just the stereo pair. Also, given the context of what sort of music they are playing, closer micing is more applicable. You dont need a big room sound for rock/pop material as you do with chamber music.

with blumlein, you can get closer this time since it is only two people. the key with blumlein is to make sure everyone is inside that working 90 degree angle to prevent phase anomolies.


 

Looking for some advice...

I work in a restaurant here in Charleston. Every Sunday, we haved a father and son duo who play in the dining room. Really cool, we're a 4 star, 4 diamond restaurant, and they play The Doors, Sublime, Gordon Lightfoot and Pink Floyd medleys. Most people aren't really paying attention unless its especially slow in the dining room or we get them wasted.

Anyway, the son stands and plays a violin, the father sits and plays a classical guitar. The son plays unamplified, the father has a mic in his guitar and plays through a simple little amp and a single small speaker. There are no vocals. The lounge area where they play is hard wood, the dining room is green marble, so their sound travels. On the same note, the sounds of the restaurant are going to travel, too.

Basically, I'm trying to figure out the best way to mic these guys while leaving the smallest footprint. I was thinking either a card or hypercard, about 12" above the violin. Then, a hypercard about 6"-12" in front of the guitar and a patch if possible out of the amp. My only gear as of right now is a pair of Neumann u89i's, the EAA-PSP2, and a 744t. I may be able to get hold of a a pair of km184's and an m248 if need be, but like I said, I'd like to leave as small a footprint as possible. Definitely want to run the u89i's though.

Any thoughts? Feedback? Advice?

-BA

[cshepherd]

what you should do is cup a hand over one ear and walk around until you get the best sort of balance. Covering one ear prevents binaural processing(which will skew results as to where it sounds best) and will really give you a great idea of where the best blend is.

Teddy, are you referring to finding the right spot to record in a blumlein config?

Chris

[RebelRebel]

the right spot to record any config, where the balance is best.

what you should do is cup a hand over one ear and walk around until you get the best sort of balance. Covering one ear prevents binaural processing(which will skew results as to where it sounds best) and will really give you a great idea of where the best blend is.

Teddy, are you referring to finding the right spot to record in a blumlein config?

Chris