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Author Topic: 8mm vid > DVD xfer Question  (Read 3373 times)

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Offline rockumal

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8mm vid > DVD xfer Question
« on: May 11, 2005, 04:17:04 PM »
A while back I had band approval to videotape a show and I did so with a Sony CCD-F35 (an older 8mm videocamera).

I'm now going to have a studio put those tapes to DVD.  It's going to cost me about $150 to have it done but I want to get it on DVD for longer term storage and I want it done "right."

Are there any keywords I need to use when I place the order?  I don't know much about the technical specs of DVD and I want to get the best quality product in the end.

I should mention I think I kinda f'd up when recording the show.  I went to Best Buy to get the blanks and asked for the best 8mm tape they had.  I was given (and used) Hi8 tape.  I had a hell of a time getting the camera to "recognize/load" the tapes. I compared those tapes to what my Dad recorded on they just say 8mm.  Is that a different format from "regular" 8mm tape and I should mention this to the studio too?  I've gotten limited playback in the past but I never watched for long as I didn't want to chance the tapes breaking down.

Offline hyperplane

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Re: 8mm vid > DVD xfer Question
« Reply #1 on: May 12, 2005, 02:47:55 AM »
if i were you, i'd ask them the following:

1- what "video bitrate" they were going to use for the DVD?

2- will the audio on the DVD be in PCM (uncompressed) format or AC3 or MPEG audio format?

(you want PCM audio, to retain the maximum quality. AC3 is the next best... MPEG audio is okay, but the worst of the 3 audio formats within DVD specs.)

3- what equipment will they use to transfer the video, e.g. a standalone DVD recorder?

(you will have a MUCH better quality DVD if the video were transferred via Firewire from a digital8 camcorder then encoded with a good MPEG encoder, like CCE or ProCoder, or even MainConcept, than if the video were transferred with a standalone DVD recorder... period. some standalone DVD recorders can make *good* transfers, but during scenes with a lot of motion, they're very pixelated!!)


$150 seems a bit much, IMO. how long is the show? and what band/artist, if i may ask?

if it's a typical 2-hour show, or thereabouts, it should cost a lot less, IMO. (at least, if i were a company and charging for it, i'd charge a lot less for a video to be transferred.)

Offline rockumal

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Re: 8mm vid > DVD xfer Question
« Reply #2 on: May 12, 2005, 04:29:36 PM »
if i were you, i'd ask them the following:

1- what "video bitrate" they were going to use for the DVD?

What should I be looking for?

2- will the audio on the DVD be in PCM (uncompressed) format or AC3 or MPEG audio format?

(you want PCM audio, to retain the maximum quality. AC3 is the next best... MPEG audio is okay, but the worst of the 3 audio formats within DVD specs.)

PCM, ok thanks

3- what equipment will they use to transfer the video, e.g. a standalone DVD recorder?

(you will have a MUCH better quality DVD if the video were transferred via Firewire from a digital8 camcorder then encoded with a good MPEG encoder, like CCE or ProCoder, or even MainConcept, than if the video were transferred with a standalone DVD recorder... period. some standalone DVD recorders can make *good* transfers, but during scenes with a lot of motion, they're very pixelated!!)

I wouldn't know if the gear was decent though.  My feeling is if they're "only" playing it back onto a standalone then I'm going elsewhere, I've heard the pixelation thing and I really want to avoid it.  My tape AFAIK isn't digital8 though, it's "regular" 8mm, the camera is 8-10 years old, no Firewire outs or anything close

$150 seems a bit much, IMO. how long is the show? and what band/artist, if i may ask?

I think it's about 2 hours 2 minutes total.  I would assume I can fit one set per DVD?  It's Keller Williams from 8/27/00, which as Keller shows go, is one of the more noteable.

if it's a typical 2-hour show, or thereabouts, it should cost a lot less, IMO. (at least, if i were a company and charging for it, i'd charge a lot less for a video to be transferred.)

They said it's like 70ish for the first DVD and I think about 50 for the second but REALLY want the content balanced, I don't want a two hour DVD and a second DVD with the encore :) Thanks a ton for the advice!  +t and another in 12!
« Last Edit: May 12, 2005, 04:33:01 PM by rockumal »

Offline sabre

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Re: 8mm vid > DVD xfer Question
« Reply #3 on: May 13, 2005, 03:58:42 AM »
I would recommend that you ask the person who is encoding your video to split the concert onto 2 DVDs. The maximum you can fit on a single sided DVD-R is 60 minutes at the full DVD video spec (which is what you want if you want to retain as much quality as possible).

The maximum bitrate (audio/video) for DVD is 9.8Mbit/sec (some players can sustain a higher bitrate, although for compatibility's sake, it's best if you limit it to around 9.8Mbit/sec). You haven't mentioned the source of your audio, so I assume that it's from the camera's mic. If that's the case, you might want to consider encoding the audio as AC-3 at 448kbit/sec. In my opinion, PCM is overkill.
If you encode using AC-3 then it will free up your video bitrate which could be set a constant 9200 kbit/sec.

I'd like to reiterate what h_vargas said. Avoid any company that uses a standalone encoder. Any business charging that sort of money for a transfer should be using a decent MPG-2 encoder. Is your video8 footage in good condition? If there are chroma problems or other issues with the video you may want to ask the business to apply some filters to your footage before encoding.

It doesn't matter that your video isn't Digital8 - A Digital 8 deck can still be used to transfer the footage via firewire to the PC.

Find out if any authoring is included with the service. Will you get a menu, chapter points? If they try to sell you additional copies of the show then don't buy any. You can easily make copies yourself if you have a DVD burner or just get a friend to make one for you if you don't have access to a burner.

Good luck!

Offline hyperplane

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Re: 8mm vid > DVD xfer Question
« Reply #4 on: May 14, 2005, 01:53:08 AM »
rockumal -

thanks for the reply.

yes, IMO, you may as well go with PCM audio even if the audio is simply the camera mic input. (why not retain optimal audio quality when possible? i know AC3 at 448 kbps keeps a good amount of the quality, but still...)

as punani stated: a digital8 camcorder will play Hi8 tapes, and it will actually digitize the footage (and quite well) and then send that digital signal via Firewire into a computer. (i've converted 8mm, Hi8, and dig8 tapes on my digital8 camcorder, all with very fine results.)

to be honest, i'm not familiar with Keller Williams' music at all. *ducks to avoid any bullets flying past my head* but seriously, i'd convert the video for you if you want, just so you can avoid getting ripped a new one... $150 for a standalone = POOR deal. a buddy of mine in texas found some local place that did VHS/camcorder tapes > DVD conversions for $10 per video. if someone isn't terribly quality-anal, then that seems like a reasonable price to me... but charging more than 10 times for it is ridic.

Offline rockumal

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Re: 8mm vid > DVD xfer Question
« Reply #5 on: May 14, 2005, 03:17:44 AM »
Allright... lessee if I can kill two replys with one stone :)

I would recommend that you ask the person who is encoding your video to split the concert onto 2 DVDs. The maximum you can fit on a single sided DVD-R is 60 minutes at the full DVD video spec (which is what you want if you want to retain as much quality as possible).

D'oh, off the top of my head the sets run around 70 min. per

The maximum bitrate (audio/video) for DVD is 9.8Mbit/sec (some players can sustain a higher bitrate, although for compatibility's sake, it's best if you limit it to around 9.8Mbit/sec). You haven't mentioned the source of your audio, so I assume that it's from the camera's mic. If that's the case, you might want to consider encoding the audio as AC-3 at 448kbit/sec. In my opinion, PCM is overkill.
If you encode using AC-3 then it will free up your video bitrate which could be set a constant 9200 kbit/sec.

Actually the audio is a major highlight of the video :)  I took the headphone out on the mk4/cmc6>V2>ADC-20>P1 rig next to me and I ran in into the mini mic in jack on the video camera.  Sounds nice

I'd like to reiterate what h_vargas said. Avoid any company that uses a standalone encoder. Any business charging that sort of money for a transfer should be using a decent MPG-2 encoder. Is your video8 footage in good condition? If there are chroma problems or other issues with the video you may want to ask the business to apply some filters to your footage before encoding.

It doesn't matter that your video isn't Digital8 - A Digital 8 deck can still be used to transfer the footage via firewire to the PC.

Yeah, I wouldn't be up for shelling out the bucks if that was all they were gonna use

Find out if any authoring is included with the service. Will you get a menu, chapter points? If they try to sell you additional copies of the show then don't buy any. You can easily make copies yourself if you have a DVD burner or just get a friend to make one for you if you don't have access to a burner.

I'd rather they just left it as a big "track" so I could drop the "track markers" myself once I've got the hardware and software

Thanks a ton for the advice!  +t


Good luck!

rockumal -

thanks for the reply.

yes, IMO, you may as well go with PCM audio even if the audio is simply the camera mic input. (why not retain optimal audio quality when possible? i know AC3 at 448 kbps keeps a good amount of the quality, but still...)

as punani stated: a digital8 camcorder will play Hi8 tapes, and it will actually digitize the footage (and quite well) and then send that digital signal via Firewire into a computer. (i've converted 8mm, Hi8, and dig8 tapes on my digital8 camcorder, all with very fine results.)

Good to know

to be honest, i'm not familiar with Keller Williams' music at all. *ducks to avoid any bullets flying past my head* but seriously, i'd convert the video for you if you want, just so you can avoid getting ripped a new one... $150 for a standalone = POOR deal. a buddy of mine in texas found some local place that did VHS/camcorder tapes > DVD conversions for $10 per video. if someone isn't terribly quality-anal, then that seems like a reasonable price to me... but charging more than 10 times for it is ridic.

I appreciate the offer, it certainly gives me something to think about.  I'll see if I can get the name of the hardware they'd be using.  I know it's not a standalone but you guys would know more than I would as to if it was good gear

+t!


Offline the yokel

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Re: 8mm vid > DVD xfer Question
« Reply #6 on: May 18, 2005, 09:38:15 AM »
joe, you should be able to get it around 7000kbs with pcm & 8000kbs with ac3.  & you can always go back & reauthor it if the track markers suck.   You should really save your money though & send it vargas' or my way.  I have a feeling your going to be dissapointed with what you get back. 

Offline rockumal

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Re: 8mm vid > DVD xfer Question
« Reply #7 on: May 23, 2005, 05:47:16 PM »
Korey-

PM me your addy, I'll send it out by you then.  I guess what worries me about this x-fer the most is that I recorded on an 8mm camera with Hi8 tape.  Is that a problem?

LMK

Offline allan

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Re: 8mm vid > DVD xfer Question
« Reply #8 on: May 27, 2005, 02:50:25 PM »
i'd do that for $150!  haha, but seriously, i just finished my video set up... tell me what you think...

JVC HRS-5911U (SVHS VCR)
datavideo DAC-100 (ana>DV converter)
Apple production suite (final cut pro HD, motion, DVD studio pro)
Dual 2.5 G5

 

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