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Author Topic: Preamp Comp: Naiant littlebox ($179) vs. Grace Lunatec V3 ($1525)  (Read 33615 times)

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Offline Todd R

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Re: Preamp Comp: Naiant littlebox ($179) vs. Grace Lunatec V3 ($1525)
« Reply #30 on: October 04, 2009, 09:47:27 PM »
If anyone is interested, I just put up another littlebox comp, this time the littlebox vs the EAA PSP-2 transformer preamp.

http://www.taperssection.com/index.php/topic,127721.0.html
Mics: Microtech Gefell m20/m21 (nbob/pfa actives), Line Audio CM3, Church CA-11 cards
Preamp:  none <sniff>
Recorders:  Sound Devices MixPre-6, Sony PCM-M10, Zoom H4nPro

Offline willndmb

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Re: Preamp Comp: Naiant littlebox ($179) vs. Grace Lunatec V3 ($1525)
« Reply #31 on: November 29, 2009, 07:21:44 PM »
Found this late.  Thanks for the comp, the Naiant sounds great. 

Sounds like channels are swapped left to right on one source.  Listening carefully, the crowd chatter at the beginnings of the samples swaps sides.

Oops, I forgot to post back about this.  Oops also -- yes, unfortunately the littlebox sources have the channels swapped.  I had just gotten the preamp, which has its XLR inputs, and just assumed the XLR on the left was for the left channel, when in fact it is for the right channel, and the right XLR is for the left channel.
this is good to know for when i get mine

so if i am looking at the front of the box the left channel is on the left (coming out the back) and the right is on the right???
but what you did (if i understand) is looked at the back as you plugged the cables in and the one on the left you assumed was left but it was really the right??

thanks
Mics - AKG ck61/ck63 (c480b & Naiant actives), SP-BMC-2
XLR Cables - Silver Path w/Darktrain stubbies
Interconnect Cables - Dogstar (XLR), Darktrain (RCA > 1/8) (1/8 > 1/8), and Kind Kables (1/8f > 1/4)
Preamps - Naiant Littlebox & Tinybox
Recorders - PCM-M10 & DR-60D

Offline printguy

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Re: Preamp Comp: Naiant littlebox ($179) vs. Grace Lunatec V3 ($1525)
« Reply #32 on: November 29, 2009, 07:36:08 PM »
Found this late.  Thanks for the comp, the Naiant sounds great. 

Sounds like channels are swapped left to right on one source.  Listening carefully, the crowd chatter at the beginnings of the samples swaps sides.

Oops, I forgot to post back about this.  Oops also -- yes, unfortunately the littlebox sources have the channels swapped.  I had just gotten the preamp, which has its XLR inputs, and just assumed the XLR on the left was for the left channel, when in fact it is for the right channel, and the right XLR is for the left channel.
this is good to know for when i get mine

so if i am looking at the front of the box the left channel is on the left (coming out the back) and the right is on the right???
but what you did (if i understand) is looked at the back as you plugged the cables in and the one on the left you assumed was left but it was really the right??

thanks
The XLRs on mine are clearly labeled - it's engraved in the box which is left and right. I wonder if Jon added this on later revisions?
• CA-11 or CA-14 > Naiant TinyBox > Tascam DR-1
• Neumann KM184s > R-44

Offline Todd R

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Re: Preamp Comp: Naiant littlebox ($179) vs. Grace Lunatec V3 ($1525)
« Reply #33 on: November 29, 2009, 07:51:10 PM »
Yes, from what I understand Jon added the labels on the later editions.

And yes, looking at mine from the front, the XLR on the back on the left is the left channel, but looking from the back, the XLR on the left is the right channel.
Mics: Microtech Gefell m20/m21 (nbob/pfa actives), Line Audio CM3, Church CA-11 cards
Preamp:  none <sniff>
Recorders:  Sound Devices MixPre-6, Sony PCM-M10, Zoom H4nPro

Offline willndmb

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Re: Preamp Comp: Naiant littlebox ($179) vs. Grace Lunatec V3 ($1525)
« Reply #34 on: November 29, 2009, 08:46:14 PM »
thanks guys

almost there on cash for my order
was planning on going "standard" but after reading this thread and loving the akg > v3 sound maybe i'll look into the version like todd
Mics - AKG ck61/ck63 (c480b & Naiant actives), SP-BMC-2
XLR Cables - Silver Path w/Darktrain stubbies
Interconnect Cables - Dogstar (XLR), Darktrain (RCA > 1/8) (1/8 > 1/8), and Kind Kables (1/8f > 1/4)
Preamps - Naiant Littlebox & Tinybox
Recorders - PCM-M10 & DR-60D

Offline brewcrew87

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Re: Preamp Comp: Naiant littlebox ($179) vs. Grace Lunatec V3 ($1525)
« Reply #35 on: July 07, 2011, 12:50:46 PM »
it makes me wonder if it is worth 8x as much for a v3

kirk97132

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Re: Preamp Comp: Naiant littlebox ($179) vs. Grace Lunatec V3 ($1525)
« Reply #36 on: July 07, 2011, 01:02:03 PM »
New V3 can be had for $850 on fleabay right now.  And yes Jon's stuff can hold it's own against established preamps.  But there are things on the V3 that the LB does not have which could be very important to some people.  IE: spdif out for one.  But if you are after a great sounding Pre without any A/D and CUSTOMIZED to you exact needs then Jon is the man!  Once he releases the digital version I think that it will be a no brainer to grab whatever he comes up with.

Offline Todd R

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Re: Preamp Comp: Naiant littlebox ($179) vs. Grace Lunatec V3 ($1525)
« Reply #37 on: July 07, 2011, 03:37:50 PM »
Yep, that's exactly it.  I think even sound-wise the V3 is nicer than the LB in many ways, though those differences are small and not easily discerned without serious listening and a good playback system.  The V3 also had the A/D, good meters, and other features and is certainly a nice preamp.

At this point, I've gotten another V3 and use that as well as using my littlebox, esp if I get to doing 4 channels.  Still, the littlebox is just a great piece of gear and well worth the money.  Between the size, cost, sound, and battery life, I definitely want it in my gear closet. I'm liking it even more since I've got output transformers added into it.
Mics: Microtech Gefell m20/m21 (nbob/pfa actives), Line Audio CM3, Church CA-11 cards
Preamp:  none <sniff>
Recorders:  Sound Devices MixPre-6, Sony PCM-M10, Zoom H4nPro

Offline it-goes-to-eleven

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Re: Preamp Comp: Naiant littlebox ($179) vs. Grace Lunatec V3 ($1525)
« Reply #38 on: July 07, 2011, 04:11:28 PM »
I think even sound-wise the V3 is nicer than the LB in many ways, though those differences are small and not easily discerned without serious listening and a good playback system.

Thanks for the reference point..  I don't have my littlebox *yet*... But I don't plan on dumping the v3.  Oh how I wish I could get down to a single $200 preamp!

For some folks, littlebox will be all they ever need.   As Jon explains, his design process is different, and emphasizes different priorities, and targets particular mics.  The v3 does some things - soundwise - better than any other portable preamp that I've heard.
 
And really, we haven't heard many v3 vs. lbox comps, especially on purely acoustic material with complex soundstage, etc.

Earlier in the thread, Richard mentioned the ina217.  As Jon clarified, it is a chip not a preamp.  There are many preamps built around the ina217, but no way do they all sound the same.  There are lots of threads on gearslutz about this.   I happen to own a DAV BG1.  It is ina217 based and it is a really great preamp.   It definitely does most things as good as the v3 and some better.  I just wish it was more portable, and that's why it is for sale.

So it's great to have all these wonderful new options.  But if I had to build a new "A rig" from scratch, I'd still be looking for a v3.

Offline Todd R

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Re: Preamp Comp: Naiant littlebox ($179) vs. Grace Lunatec V3 ($1525)
« Reply #39 on: July 07, 2011, 05:59:08 PM »
I think a lot of the comments in this thread are on target.  I don't think the comments about soundstage or soundstage width are too useful since unfortunately the comp I put up had the L and R channels swapped on the littlebox.

But the LB does have a bit more of a low end to it than the V3 as people note.  I had been thinking that was an effect of the LB, but your comments on the low end of the V3 do have me wondering about whether it is in fact the V3 with a slightly rolled off low end, and not the LB having a somewhat accentuated low end.  Still, getting the low end where you want it is easy enough with post processing EQ, and I'm usually doing that anyway since live PA shows typically have too much subwoofer and low end action.

Beyond that obvious difference between them, I think jlykos' comments a couple pages back are right on.  Though the differences that he describes to me are not blaring, but subtle.  The LB presentation is not as coherent across all frequencies, but I find this a difference only real golden-ears listening will pick up.  The LB is a bit more forward in the mids, which is actually a sonic signature that I prefer. And the mids, perhaps by being a bit more forward, can lean towards being a bit more strident, esp when recording PA's (in particular line arrays) that I find can be strident themselves.

I got my LB fitted with output transformers and as Jon suggested, these help the sound, and tame the tendency towards stridency. They also can get to some low end transformer saturation that I really like.  I got mine with switchable output transformers, but find that I always want them engaged.

Finally, it is worth noting again that my LB is special as it is one of the few made with Burr-Brown instrumentation amps, as I had requested, so it is not the same as stock littleboxes being made today.  I might try to undertake another comp using my LB with the output transformers sometime when I've got an indoor show to go to (outdoors I'd prefer using the extra channels for split omnis).  But it would be good if someone else with a standard LB could do a LB-V3 comp sometime.
Mics: Microtech Gefell m20/m21 (nbob/pfa actives), Line Audio CM3, Church CA-11 cards
Preamp:  none <sniff>
Recorders:  Sound Devices MixPre-6, Sony PCM-M10, Zoom H4nPro

Offline brewcrew87

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Re: Preamp Comp: Naiant littlebox ($179) vs. Grace Lunatec V3 ($1525)
« Reply #40 on: July 07, 2011, 06:56:18 PM »
i think the comp showed that they are both excellent pre amps, and the differences are only noticable if you are looking for them, and sometimes not even then! i dont think i could go wrong with a littlebox to start off

Offline willndmb

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Re: Preamp Comp: Naiant littlebox ($179) vs. Grace Lunatec V3 ($1525)
« Reply #41 on: July 07, 2011, 11:05:09 PM »
my thoughts on the 2 are this
they both rock
if i had unlimited money i would on a v3 as i do think overall it sounds better but for the cost, size, battery life, options the lb is harddddd to beat and i don't see myself selling mine anytime soon
Mics - AKG ck61/ck63 (c480b & Naiant actives), SP-BMC-2
XLR Cables - Silver Path w/Darktrain stubbies
Interconnect Cables - Dogstar (XLR), Darktrain (RCA > 1/8) (1/8 > 1/8), and Kind Kables (1/8f > 1/4)
Preamps - Naiant Littlebox & Tinybox
Recorders - PCM-M10 & DR-60D

Offline weroflu

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Re: Preamp Comp: Naiant littlebox ($179) vs. Grace Lunatec V3 ($1525)
« Reply #42 on: September 11, 2012, 06:07:27 AM »
late reply but 

<However, keep in mind that littlebox will always be relatively quietest at its maximum gain setting.>

my littlebox has a headphone amp which i think is fed directly from the mic amps.

does this mean that for high gain i should always run the mic preamps at full gain ?

for low gain same thing? and then keep the headphone amp low?

does the headphone amp gain structure attenuate or will full ccw position still represent the full gain of the mic amps?


Offline rodeen

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Re: Preamp Comp: Naiant littlebox ($179) vs. Grace Lunatec V3 ($1525)
« Reply #43 on: September 12, 2012, 03:26:27 PM »
I got my LB fitted with output transformers and as Jon suggested, these help the sound, and tame the tendency towards stridency. They also can get to some low end transformer saturation that I really like.  I got mine with switchable output transformers, but find that I always want them engaged.

"Stridency" - great word!  I am planning on ordering a Tinybox but haven't yet because I can't decide if I should get output transformers or not.  Analysis paralysis.  I am planning on using the Tinybox with Busman BSC2's and worry that adding output transformers would "muddy" the sound.  I really like the sound of my V3 if that helps.  Does a Tinybox have the option of switchable output transformers? 

All advice welcome!

Not really a comp here but an interesting listen of KM-184>V3 and BSC2-K21(Ominis)>Microtrack from the same show/location.  I haven't had a chance to try the BSC2's with the V3 yet.

http://archive.org/details/lf2012-09-03.bsc2.flac16
http://archive.org/details/lf2012-09-03.km184.flac16

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Offline OOK

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Re: Preamp Comp: Naiant littlebox ($179) vs. Grace Lunatec V3 ($1525)
« Reply #44 on: September 12, 2012, 05:42:24 PM »
tinybox now has an option for pre- and post-transformer minijacks.

Awesome Feature!!!!
DPA/HEB 4060's > R09HR
MBHO648/KA100Lk/KA200/KA300/KA500 > SD702

 

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