Topic: omni mics, NOS? (outdoor fest)

[Jhurlbs81]

I was looking around for more information on omni spacings and recording angles and found this in the "healy method" post -

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=96672.15

when you start spacing the caps further, you want to start bringing the angle in from 180*

extendeding on the post above that I quoted from Hartkopf's page, first column is spacing in centemeters, second is angle from the soundsource.

from http://web.archive.org/web/20050314085929/members.aol.com/mihartkopf/lexicon.htm

17 180.0
20 116.4
25 85.7
30 69.0
35 58.1
40 50.3
45 44.4
50 39.8
60 32.9
70 28.1
80 24.5
90 21.8
100 19.6

of course this is all theory, do what sounds best to you  in the applications you use.

Any thoughts on this?  My mics set up nicely around 30cm, so this table suggest a 70 degree recording angle?  Without a disc will that angle and spacing produce any amount of stereo separation? 

Thanks!

[Will_S]

The "recording angle" in this table is not how far apart to aim your mics.

It's how far apart two sound sources need to be to image far right/far left on playback, given the specified spacing of two omni microphones aimed straight ahead.  So the "right" way to use this table would be decide how large of a recording angle your source material encompasses (perhaps with a cushion), and pick a distance between mics accordingly, although I do not recommend this blind approach when you have a choice.  But more it's just useful to understand how changing mic spacing affects the recorded stereo width, in relative terms.

Angling omni mics will give you a slightly wider image than facing them straight ahead since omnis aren't really omnidirectional at high frequencies, but this directionality varies from mic to mic so there's no hard and fast formula for how angling omnis should affect imaging.

[Gutbucket]

What Will said.

Quick field approximation for measuring angles: the width of a fist held at arms length covers an angle of ~ 10º as viewed by the squinting, angle aproximating recordist.  Fists and arms vary, so calibrate yours by measuring a known angle and adjusting.

[SmokinJoe]

I think omnis in a NOS looking setup would sound great. 
- I listen with earbuds/headphones a lot, and too much split doesn't please me. I think 12" is probably a good compromise between DINish and wide-splits.
- Omnis will pick up more chatter around you if there is the typical crowd... that's a fact of life.  A little chatter is OK, but too much really pisses me off.

I'm conservative by nature.  I would probably run that way for some of the of the opening acts (the ones that I might not get around to tracking anyway), and then "go with what you know" (in my case cards/DIN) for the main acts, just in case it didn't work out as well as I had hoped.  Also, a lot of festival fields are "half full" during the day, and then are "really packed" when the main acts come on at night, which is when the chatter factor increases.

[Walstib62]

I'll be taping Mule tommorrow night. I am 3rd row center, so I have to be very low pro if I want to run any higher than head height. I will be running Church CA-14 omnis in Healey along with Church cables/Audix caps ORTF to 4 channel. I made a DIY 1/4-20 threaded rod to attach to my stand. The "T" portion at the top is 1/8" flexible Aluminum wire to which the mics will clip. I wanted to go with Healey because I will be so close. There ae 4 JBL "fill" PA's at stage lip. I expect to pick those up along with the actual on-stage sound. We'll see what happens.

[ehren]

I've been running Church CA-14 omnis on a NOS mount and have loved the results.

[yug du nord]

If it's loud enough, I've had great results with Healy both indoors and outdoors.  I've also had great results outdoors with near-NOS (omni) and 30cm split omni's AB.  Just beware of excess chatter if you're not raised/isolated enough.

[Walstib62]

That's why I made the thin rod stand attachment. In the dark, it will be nearly invisible. That way I can raise it up higher. Also, I just got that new TS shirt today, so surely that will KILL the chatter!

[Will_S]

The "recording angle" in this table is not how far apart to aim your mics.

It's how far apart two sound sources need to be to image far right/far left on playback, given the specified spacing of two omni microphones aimed straight ahead.

Actually it looks like for this particular table, it's how far off center does a sound source need to be to image all the way to the side.  So double it to get the stereo recording angle you may be used to from the stereophonic zoom.

[NOLAfishwater]

I have found that if the engineer doesn't crank it too loud you just get alot of chatter with omnis or subcards. this has made me rely on hypers or cards more and more outdoors. it is so hit or miss with engineers. I will say that i have made some smoking good recordings with omni healy method with 3' split but that was only b/c the PA was loud and there weren't people standing within 10' of my stand. bring both sets of caps and see what the soundcheck sounds like then make your decision.

[Gutbucket]

I have found that if the engineer doesn't crank it too loud you just get alot of chatter with omnis or subcards. this has made me rely on hypers or cards more and more outdoors. it is so hit or miss with engineers. I will say that i have made some smoking good recordings with omni healy method with 3' split but that was only b/c the PA was loud and there weren't people standing within 10' of my stand. bring both sets of caps and see what the soundcheck sounds like then make your decision.

Anyone here ever run directionals like A-B omnis for this reason?  Say 3' spaced cards or hypers with no angle between them but facing directly ahead?  That could reduce the chatter but retain some aspects of the omni A-B'ness (time difference stereo, big open sounding decorellated ambience, etc).  I've seen crazier configs.

[Əkoostikal]

I have found that if the engineer doesn't crank it too loud you just get alot of chatter with omnis or subcards. this has made me rely on hypers or cards more and more outdoors. it is so hit or miss with engineers. I will say that i have made some smoking good recordings with omni healy method with 3' split but that was only b/c the PA was loud and there weren't people standing within 10' of my stand. bring both sets of caps and see what the soundcheck sounds like then make your decision.

Anyone here ever run directionals like A-B omnis for this reason?  Say 3' spaced cards or hypers with no angle between them but facing directly ahead?  That could reduce the chatter but retain some aspects of the omni A-B'ness (time difference stereo, big open sounding decorellated ambience, etc).  I've seen crazier configs.

I have heard a couple Schoeps 4v's AB split about 6' outdoor tapes and I thought they smoked! 


Doesn't Sonicsound on here run mk5's NOS along with 41's or 41v's ??..... I know he mostly always seeds/posts the 4chan stuff but perhaps he could post some samples of a few of his FOB's with just the mk5's and no 41's mixed.