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Author Topic: aeta 6 track recorder  (Read 33774 times)

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Offline dactylus

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Re: AETA 4MinX - 8 track recorder
« Reply #90 on: March 08, 2016, 05:31:27 AM »
Having now had a much closer look at the AETA 4MinX - it is actually a lot better than I initially thought it was.

It has 10 inputs (4 x Mic/line, 2 x Line, 4 x AES3/AES42) which can be mixed in any way you like onto 8 channels - or - mix in any way you like on to 6 channels and use the last 2 channels for a stereo mix.

It is the only recorder that has the option for using both Digital microphones and a Soundfield microphone with Soundfield monitoring.

It is the same high quality level as the Aaton Cantar and Nagra VI at a much lower price level.  It is even a good deal cheaper than the SD 788T.

It also is the right size - not so small that it becomes fiddly to use (without buying external control panels), or too large that it can become unwieldy in a bag.

AETA had lots of help from professional sound engineers in refining the software - and the current version is very different from the initial unit from 2011 (but anyone with an initial unit would have been able to update it to the latest version with firmware updates).

The more I see it, the more impressed I am.



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Offline John Willett

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Re: AETA 4MinX 8 track recorder
« Reply #91 on: March 12, 2016, 04:05:21 AM »
Now this thread has been resurrected...

Today's 4MinX is quite a bit better than the version from a few years ago, as AETA have introduced several firmware updates with improvements in the meantime.

For instance - every input now has an adjustable delay, so that if you are mixing digital and analogue inputs or, for example, using a Schoeps SuperCMiT, you can delay any input you want so everything remans in sync.

You can follow all the updates HERE.

Offline dactylus

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Re: AETA 4MinX 8 track recorder
« Reply #92 on: March 12, 2016, 09:42:31 AM »
Now this thread has been resurrected...

Today's 4MinX is quite a bit better than the version from a few years ago, as AETA have introduced several firmware updates with improvements in the meantime.

For instance - every input now has an adjustable delay, so that if you are mixing digital and analogue inputs or, for example, using a Schoeps SuperCMiT, you can delay any input you want so everything remans in sync.

You can follow all the updates HERE.

Thanks for your insight and for weighing in John!

David
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Offline StuStu

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Re: AETA 4MinX 8 track recorder
« Reply #93 on: March 13, 2016, 11:54:53 AM »

Agreed. The software seems to evolve nicely with each update.

Now this thread has been resurrected...

Today's 4MinX is quite a bit better than the version from a few years ago, as AETA have introduced several firmware updates with improvements in the meantime.

For instance - every input now has an adjustable delay, so that if you are mixing digital and analogue inputs or, for example, using a Schoeps SuperCMiT, you can delay any input you want so everything remans in sync.

You can follow all the updates HERE.
MK5, MK8, MK41, KM184D, CK77, B3 ---CMD 2U XT, KC5, KCY, AKI---KCY Tinybox, Ugly BB---AETA 4MinX, PMD661 MKII, R-26, M-10, MR-1

Offline dactylus

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Re: AETA 4MinX - 8 track recorder
« Reply #94 on: June 14, 2016, 01:34:07 PM »
Having now had a much closer look at the AETA 4MinX - it is actually a lot better than I initially thought it was.

It has 10 inputs (4 x Mic/line, 2 x Line, 4 x AES3/AES42) which can be mixed in any way you like onto 8 channels - or - mix in any way you like on to 6 channels and use the last 2 channels for a stereo mix.

It is the only recorder that has the option for using both Digital microphones and a Soundfield microphone with Soundfield monitoring.

It is the same high quality level as the Aaton Cantar and Nagra VI at a much lower price level.  It is even a good deal cheaper than the SD 788T.

It also is the right size - not so small that it becomes fiddly to use (without buying external control panels), or too large that it can become unwieldy in a bag.

AETA had lots of help from professional sound engineers in refining the software - and the current version is very different from the initial unit from 2011 (but anyone with an initial unit would have been able to update it to the latest version with firmware updates).

The more I see it, the more impressed I am.


Weighing in after my virgin run in the field with the AETA 4MinX.  I ran 4 channels with P48 for the final day at The Blue Ox festival.  Everything worked like a charm and the results sound very good to my ears.  I ran Gefell M210's head-to-head with a pair of Schoeps mk4v's and the results were a win, win! 

I'm very happy with this machine after my first run and I hope to expand to an 8 channel trial run in the near future.  (This means lugging an extra pre into the field, with both digital and analog output, and I'll pick a good show to do this)

I powered the recorder with a Naztech PB15000 and changed batteries after 3+ hours with each battery,  I really didn't want to push it any further than that.  Running 4 channels, P48 for this trial.  After 3+ hours I still had one bar left on the battery running at 12V.

There is a learning curve with this machine and I still have a lot to learn but I'm getting there.

David
« Last Edit: June 15, 2016, 08:13:21 AM by dactylus »
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Offline yug du nord

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Re: aeta 6 track recorder
« Reply #95 on: June 14, 2016, 02:51:47 PM »
^nice!!
 8)


.......are the pre amps similar or same to PSP-2 or PSP-3 or totally different??
.....got a blank space where my mind should be.....

Offline Hypnocracy

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Re: aeta 6 track recorder
« Reply #96 on: June 14, 2016, 04:23:47 PM »
Drool....



Is that a small man? Or a Large Recorder?

 >:D

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Offline dactylus

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Re: AETA 4MinX - 8 track recorder
« Reply #97 on: June 14, 2016, 06:13:42 PM »
^nice!!
 8)
.......are the pre amps similar or same to PSP-2 or PSP-3 or totally different??

The pre's are rumored to be similar to the PSP-3's.  Taylorc who has one of these machines, was I think investigating the origin of the 4MinX pre's.

StuStu and John Willett also have this machine and have offered guidance to me in running it.  It's not rocket science but it has a lot of features and it is NOT like running my sd722.  I like it and I am up to the challenge.


Is that a small man? Or a Large Recorder?
 >:D

It is actually a very comfortably sized recorder, not too large, not too small.  It is also a lighter weight than it looks but it is solidly built!

« Last Edit: June 15, 2016, 08:16:41 AM by dactylus »
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Offline Hypnocracy

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Re: aeta 6 track recorder
« Reply #98 on: June 14, 2016, 09:06:40 PM »
Can't wait to hear the Gefell's with this unit...The PSP-2 an PSP-3 have always been on my list of (unobtanium) pre's to own...actually considering selling off my Portico and Grace to move into a top of the line all in one...but afraid this one will just be a dream for now.

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Online gewwang

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Re: AETA 4MinX - 8 track recorder
« Reply #99 on: June 16, 2016, 01:22:20 PM »
^nice!!
 8)
.......are the pre amps similar or same to PSP-2 or PSP-3 or totally different??

The pre's are rumored to be similar to the PSP-3's.  Taylorc who has one of these machines, was I think investigating the origin of the 4MinX pre's.

StuStu and John Willett also have this machine and have offered guidance to me in running it.  It's not rocket science but it has a lot of features and it is NOT like running my sd722.  I like it and I am up to the challenge.


Is that a small man? Or a Large Recorder?
 >:D

It is actually a very comfortably sized recorder, not too large, not too small.  It is also a lighter weight than it looks but it is solidly built!

Appears to be a tiny bit bigger than the 788

788 : 1.8" x 10.1" x 6.4"
          3 lbs 12 oz. without battery

4minX : 10.2” x 3.0” x 7.7”
              4 lbs without battery

Offline hi and lo

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Re: AETA 4MinX - 8 track recorder
« Reply #100 on: June 16, 2016, 01:32:02 PM »
^nice!!
 8)
.......are the pre amps similar or same to PSP-2 or PSP-3 or totally different??

The pre's are rumored to be similar to the PSP-3's.  Taylorc who has one of these machines, was I think investigating the origin of the 4MinX pre's.


It really doesn't make sense to compare the 4Minx, or any modern preamp/recorder for that matter, to gear that was manufactured 20 years ago. No one is designing TL071 inputs into custom made input transformers ala the PSP-2 (the company that made the transformers doesn't even have a datasheet for them anymore) and the PSP-3 is nothing more than an SSM2017 preamp with a whole bunch of M/S circuitry... it's a good one, but hardly revolutionary in 2016.

I can guarantee you that there isn't a single common IC or meaningful component between the devices and I'd even doubt if any of the same people that developed the 4minx were even around when the PSPs were developed.

Offline StuStu

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Re: AETA 4MinX - 8 track recorder
« Reply #101 on: June 18, 2016, 12:34:49 PM »
^nice!!
 8)
.......are the pre amps similar or same to PSP-2 or PSP-3 or totally different??

The pre's are rumored to be similar to the PSP-3's.  Taylorc who has one of these machines, was I think investigating the origin of the 4MinX pre's.



It really doesn't make sense to compare the 4Minx, or any modern preamp/recorder for that matter, to gear that was manufactured 20 years ago. No one is designing TL071 inputs into custom made input transformers ala the PSP-2 (the company that made the transformers doesn't even have a datasheet for them anymore) and the PSP-3 is nothing more than an SSM2017 preamp with a whole bunch of M/S circuitry... it's a good one, but hardly revolutionary in 2016.

I can guarantee you that there isn't a single common IC or meaningful component between the devices and I'd even doubt if any of the same people that developed the 4minx were even around when the PSPs were developed.


I'm fairly certain it was AETA who told Taylor the 4MinX pres are more or less the same as the PSP-3s. Regardless, the 4MinX pres are superb. :)
MK5, MK8, MK41, KM184D, CK77, B3 ---CMD 2U XT, KC5, KCY, AKI---KCY Tinybox, Ugly BB---AETA 4MinX, PMD661 MKII, R-26, M-10, MR-1

Offline hi and lo

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Re: aeta 6 track recorder
« Reply #102 on: June 18, 2016, 04:05:11 PM »
It's only "more-like" the PSP-3 because of the transformerless inputs. I could name a dozen different modern preamps based on instrumentation amplifiers that sound "just like" the PSP-3.

Offline StuStu

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Re: aeta 6 track recorder
« Reply #103 on: June 19, 2016, 01:50:45 AM »
It's only "more-like" the PSP-3 because of the transformerless inputs. I could name a dozen different modern preamps based on instrumentation amplifiers that sound "just like" the PSP-3.


I'm not comparing the AETA 4MinX pres to the PSP-2 which have transformers. I've taped many, many shows with the PSP-2 and know the difference in sound compared to the PSP-3. I was simply relaying what I've been told about the 4MinX pres. And owning the recorder, I believe it. What's so hard to believe about AETA basing the pres from their OWN wonderful sounding PSP-3? Why change a great pre? Are you suggesting transformerless pres all sound alike? And by all means, let us all know the dozen pres that sound like the PSP-3. I'd love to try them out. Sorry, but I guess I'm missing your point here.
MK5, MK8, MK41, KM184D, CK77, B3 ---CMD 2U XT, KC5, KCY, AKI---KCY Tinybox, Ugly BB---AETA 4MinX, PMD661 MKII, R-26, M-10, MR-1

Offline hi and lo

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Re: aeta 6 track recorder
« Reply #104 on: June 19, 2016, 03:33:31 AM »
Yes, that is exactly what I am suggesting. We like to think there are huge subjective differences, but unfortunately the science rarely agrees and that can be hard for our egos to deal with. Jon said this really well once.


When you get into the world of studio preamps, people have their preferences and biases and experiences, but almost none can express those in technical terms, and when their subjective evaluations get challenged with actual technical measurements, suddenly they get very very defensive . . .

Preamps have a simple, defined purpose; Amplify a low-level signal equally across all frequencies while introducing as little noise as possible. There might be some secondary functions like bass roll-off, but otherwise it should be ruler flat 20 Hz to 20 kHz. Unfortunately, a mountain of bad science and marketing bullshit in the audio world has obscured this very simple purpose and led people to believe that a preamp should be 'bright' or 'dark' or... whatever.

If you really think you understand the sonic characteristics of these preamps, then I would challenge you to discuss them in technical terms rather than anecdotes. A frequency response chart or Bode plot is not hard to generate, even the most humble of computer sound cards can take accurate measurements. If you really think these two preamps share a sonic characteristic, then surely we would see evidence of that in a frequency response chart, right? How about looking at THD and harmonics? Shouldn't those also match? I've taken measurements on all these pres and would encourage anyone to do the same. It's not hard; everyone should know how to do it.

Heck, even some sound comps would be better than anecdotes. As maybe the only person on this forum with a 4Minx, why haven't you done this?


What's so hard to believe about AETA basing the pres from their OWN wonderful sounding PSP-3? Why change a great pre?

Because that's not how engineering works. You don't start with a sound and work backwards. You don't make 20 different circuits and perform critical listening tests until you find the circuit that "has that classic Aeta sound." Engineers work with a set of technical requirements (i.e. ruler flat frequency response, low power consumption, specific gain ranges), choose parts based on component level specifications, pricing & availability, reliability, etc... and then validate everything with technical measurements, not their ears.

And as for the second-hand knowledge you are throwing around regarding Aeta's opinion, do you really believe that an engineer at Aeta would say "the 4minx was designed to sound like the PSP-3" when they have released so many products since? Why wouldn't he have said it was based off the Mixy or the Scoop or any other product developed by Aeta that is literally lightyears ahead of the PSP-3? The answer is pretty simple. A taper asked him "does it sound more like X or Y" and he responded with the option that made the most sense. This kind of anecdotal information might be interesting, but is easily misused and often does more harm than good.


Are you suggesting transformerless pres all sound alike? And by all means, let us all know the dozen pres that sound like the PSP-3. I'd love to try them out.

If we're talking about modern, instrumentation amplifier based pres (INA217/SSM2017/THAT151x or the dozens of other, newer chips out there), then yes. It's an incredibly common circuit topology and not the secret sauce or voodoo magic you'd like it to be.

Aeta did a great job engineering the PSP-3, but I can assure you that the overwhelming majority of R&D was focused on enclosure design, pcb layout work, implementing features like M/S decoding, left/right balance, power supply design, etc. Heck, more than half the circuity in the PSP-3 is dedicated to these auxiliary features alone. The amplification circuit is probably the simplest thing in there and even then, it's fairly dated. For example, there are definitely more exotic ways tackle dc offest across the entire gain range than a 1000uF capacitor in series with Rg and with some of the newer chips, you don't even have to solve for it.

The same goes for the 4Minx, but now you've got all sorts of digital stuff in the mix, firmware coding, etc. That stuff is what makes a solid, modern product, not the 'sound.'

I can think of a few pres with wildly difference sonic signatures, but that isn't necessarily a good thing (I'm looking at you m248... worst fucking preamp ever. keep getting fleeced, sheep).

It would behoove all of use to focus on features, pricing, and customer service / support rather than "sound."
« Last Edit: June 19, 2016, 04:10:34 AM by hi and lo »

 

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