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Author Topic: New Guy, Some Broad Sweeping Questions...  (Read 16296 times)

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Offline cottle

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Re: New Guy, Some Broad Sweeping Questions...
« Reply #30 on: August 27, 2014, 10:43:56 AM »
If you pick up a pair of AT853's, make sure to pick up one of Brian's (it-goes-to-eleven) Delrin mounting bars.  Everything is measured out, true plug-and-play.  Takes out the guesswork and makes setup and tear-down a cinch.

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=168213.msg2106529#msg2106529

Those are sweet! What does that require to set up besides mics and a stand?

you'd just need one shock mount to hold the bar in place. 

Offline Ultfris101

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Re: New Guy, Some Broad Sweeping Questions...
« Reply #31 on: August 27, 2014, 10:53:43 AM »
Usually you put them in a microphone shockmount made for standard small condenser microphone bodies with about 19mm or so diameter. Get the proper combination of thread adapters if necessary to mount it to your stand. Sufficient cable to run down from mics to preamp/recorder, a bag to put it all in and you're ready to start.

In reality there's no end to number of accessories and options you could choose from. Need vs Want comes into play of course.

This is a good basic shockmount that will work: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/298919-REG/WindTech_SP_20_SP_20_Microhone_Shockmount.html

There are tons of these at all price points. The Rycote Invisions are some of the best but expensive.

Some odds and ends that most people carry some version of:
 - rapid adapter: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/546490-REG/Manfrotto_014_38_014_38_Rapid_Adapter.html
 - adjustable stereo bar: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/534727-REG/K_M_23550_500_55_23550_Adjustable_Microphone_Bar.html
 - mic clamp: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/894541-REG/K_M_23800_500_55_238_Microphone_Holder.html

The mic clamp and shockmount can get you setup on just about any stand or vertical pole. Usually other people will let you squeeze into open space on their stand if you ask them and take care not to interfere with their setup.
Mics: Schoeps MK5,MK41 CMC6,KCY,KC5 | AKG ck63,ck1 C460B,C480B | DPA 4061 | Naiant X-R card,hyper | CA-14o,c
Pres: Sound Devices USBPre2 | Naiant Tinybox | Church Audio 9200, UBB
Recs: Zoom F8 | Edirol R-44 | Sony PCM-M10 | Tascam DR-2d
Video: Sony CX550(2), CX580, HX9

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Offline chinariderstl

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Re: New Guy, Some Broad Sweeping Questions...
« Reply #32 on: August 27, 2014, 11:41:33 AM »
If you pick up a pair of AT853's, make sure to pick up one of Brian's (it-goes-to-eleven) Delrin mounting bars.  Everything is measured out, true plug-and-play.  Takes out the guesswork and makes setup and tear-down a cinch.

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=168213.msg2106529#msg2106529

Those are sweet! What does that require to set up besides mics and a stand?

you'd just need one shock mount to hold the bar in place.

This is the shock mount I use.  It fits Brian's bars perfectly.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/68624-REG/Shure_A55M_A55M_Isolation_and_Swivel.html
Mics: Audio-Technica AT853's, Avantone CK-40 (Busman mod), Busman BSC1's, DPA 4022's, DPA 4060's
Pres: Apogee Mini-MP, Core Sound Battery Box
Decks: Sony PCM-M10, Tascam DR-2D, Tascam DR-680 (Busman mod)
Power: Initial RB-270, Naztech PB15000
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Offline George

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Re: New Guy, Some Broad Sweeping Questions...
« Reply #33 on: August 27, 2014, 01:38:42 PM »
I have 853 cards and hypers, and have found that the hypers blow away the cards in every way. Not sure why, and it isn't just the pattern- the cards are dull and lifeless in comparison.

I'll try the hypers again, I recall finding them too bright from prior use.
SP-CMC-4s (C, H, SC terminated to mini xlr)>Tinybox>Sony M10/Tascam DR-2d
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Marshall7

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Re: New Guy, Some Broad Sweeping Questions...
« Reply #34 on: August 27, 2014, 04:44:05 PM »
I have 853 cards and hypers, and have found that the hypers blow away the cards in every way. Not sure why, and it isn't just the pattern- the cards are dull and lifeless in comparison.

I'll try the hypers again, I recall finding them too bright from prior use.

If you decide you don't like them, and want to sell, let me know!

Offline nameloc01

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Re: New Guy, Some Broad Sweeping Questions...
« Reply #35 on: August 27, 2014, 07:46:23 PM »
my primary advise would be this... spend the extra few dollars right from the start.. you do not want to buy any gear that is (relatively) a few bucks less than something else that is widely used/loved and find out that it sucks, you don't like it and then have to pretty much "upgrade" immediately. That is a very commonly made mistake. (myself included,several x's over) I realise its hard to hold off to come up with the extra $$, but it will save you ~a lot~ of money in the long run.

things to look into which will serve stealth and open taping beautifully:

- ATu853s mics with a set of card/omni caps and a set of rotating "clips" for stealth missions (also the appropriate power supply).
- Church Audio mic/preamp combos.
- Sony PCM-M10 or a Tascam recording deck.
- quality cables... ie "Darktrain"
- a set of mounts/windscreens/mounting bar for the mics.
- a Superclamp for when a stand isn't possible.. ( get the "wedge" attachment for mounting to flat surfaces (tables,ledges, ect)
- a quality stand with a small "footprint" (if running a stand, be sure to have any cables you may need to make it down to your recorder/gear/gearbag which will likely be on the floor or at least quite a bit below the mics)
-  some sort of gear bag.

last bit of advise, if you're stealthing, wear comfortable shoes and don't drink any beer, before or during the show ~at all~  (to avoid having to leave to take a piss)

« Last Edit: August 27, 2014, 10:03:53 PM by nameloc01 »
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Offline Fried Chicken Boy

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Re: New Guy, Some Broad Sweeping Questions...
« Reply #36 on: August 31, 2014, 11:47:31 AM »
Next show I have is Primus at the end of October, but i'm not sure I can scratch up the cash to get this rolling by then. The hardest part, I think, is going to be piecing this together over time.

I'm also trying to stick with stealthy mics, as most shows i've been to around here have been specifically "no taping" environments...

A heads up that if you plan to record Primus, you'd be wise to go stealthy.  They haven't allowed open taping in about 4 years and it's been debated whether or not they actually condoned it in the first place or just tolerated it.  Thought I'd point it out since you lumped them together with open taping performers in your first post.  (Primus, Phish, DSO, Mule...)

Welcome to the Section, mtandy, and have fun putting your rig together. :)

Offline Ultfris101

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Re: New Guy, Some Broad Sweeping Questions...
« Reply #37 on: August 31, 2014, 12:23:52 PM »
last bit of advise, if you're stealthing, wear comfortable shoes and don't drink any beer, before or during the show ~at all~  (to avoid having to leave to take a piss)

Although I do get a chuckle when I come across a stealth tape where somebody takes the recorder to the can and keeps it running so you don't miss the muffled music coming through the walls and door, but do of course get treated to various sounds created by the process :)

Lots of good advice here. Have fun!
Mics: Schoeps MK5,MK41 CMC6,KCY,KC5 | AKG ck63,ck1 C460B,C480B | DPA 4061 | Naiant X-R card,hyper | CA-14o,c
Pres: Sound Devices USBPre2 | Naiant Tinybox | Church Audio 9200, UBB
Recs: Zoom F8 | Edirol R-44 | Sony PCM-M10 | Tascam DR-2d
Video: Sony CX550(2), CX580, HX9

LMA: http://archive.org/bookmarks/ultfris101

Offline Scooter123

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Re: New Guy, Some Broad Sweeping Questions...
« Reply #38 on: August 31, 2014, 10:58:10 PM »
Several of my raw tapes have that feature.  The problem is that the whole event takes way too long, and I have to go through various shakes and then more pissing.  Its like one of the Naked Gun movies. 
Regards,
Scooter123

mk41 > N Box  > Sony M-10
mk4 > N Box > Sony M-10

Offline earmonger

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Re: New Guy, Some Broad Sweeping Questions...
« Reply #39 on: September 01, 2014, 07:01:31 PM »
Definitely talk to your fellow Massachusettsans (?) about patching. Recorders are so good now that what matters most is the incoming signal. Hook up to someone with super mics and you will have a great recording.

But of course you'll want your own.

Since budget is important and you are recording amplified bands, you really don't need a preamp at this stage (or possibly ever). A battery box will save you $100 or more, even over a starter preamp, and it's all you need. Preamps, well, amplify the signal from your mic. But a loud concert doesn't need to be amplified--all it needs is for power to be sent to the mic to make it perform at its best.

What you do need are mics that take plug-in power (which is low enough to be supplied by the recorder, but better supplied by a battery box). Phantom power is 48V, needs a separate box, not for a starting setup. 

You also need to decide whether you want cardioid mics (which are directional) or omni mics (omnidirectional). I am in the omni camp--it sounds richer and rounder to me,  because budget cardioids have less bass and because, at times, recording with cardioids and listening through headphones gives an odd "backless" sensation to the stereo, as if there's a void behind you. (Though if there's a chatty audience I'd long for cardioids to shut out the yappers behind me.)   

Again, cardioids are directional.  In a fixed position, on a mic stand, that's fine--the whole concert doesn't swing around as it would if you moved them. But stealth recording can also mean just clipping the mics to a shirt collar, glasses, etc., and if you do that you are going to be less happy with cardioids. Omnis are more forgiving. (Also, if it's a factor, they can handle wind noise better in outdoor situations.)

Really, go to Live Music Archive and listen to mics you are considering--you'll find plenty of material from your chosen bands.

Core Sounds were once many tapers' choice but now there are options that are cheaper with better sound.  Church Audio was mentioned above, and I love the CA-14 omnis.  They are not the stealthiest thing--size of the tip of your thumb--but in the dark at a show, people aren't looking at you.

Since I got those, Chris Church (who makes everything by hand) has said his CA-11 are even better omnis, and they are also smaller (CA-14 is built into a foam windscreen).  You should think about those and get the $29 Ugly battery module with them, which is basically a gizmo that snaps onto a 9V battery.  Church Audio is in Canada, so shipping adds time and price, and is slow to deliver--you'd join a long queue and might not get the mics before October--but they also show up in the Yard Sale here.

I haven't used the Tascam, but I can tell you that the Sony PCM-M10 is one solid and easy to use recorder. Also, with its simple rectangular shape--its mics are recessed--I've had many security people think it's a point-and-shoot camera. I can in good conscience promise not to shoot one photo with it.

Mics (with clips for shirt/glasses mounting), battery box, PCM-M10. Very happy with countless shows recorded that way.

Offline splumer

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Re: New Guy, Some Broad Sweeping Questions...
« Reply #40 on: September 05, 2014, 10:01:55 AM »
Several of my raw tapes have that feature.  The problem is that the whole event takes way too long, and I have to go through various shakes and then more pissing.  Its like one of the Naked Gun movies.

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Offline 2manyrocks

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Re: New Guy, Some Broad Sweeping Questions...
« Reply #41 on: September 05, 2014, 11:58:51 AM »
My thought on this is to save up a bit more if necessary and just buy once.  The m10 is about $230 at B & H photo.  The At853s are about $135-$150 or so when they show up in the yard sale.  Add a battery box or build one if you want to go cheap or buy one of the pipsqueaks from Naiant for about $160.  That puts you up around $550, but that's cheaper in the long run than making several buys of stuff that doesn't quite work out. 


Offline chinariderstl

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Re: New Guy, Some Broad Sweeping Questions...
« Reply #42 on: September 05, 2014, 02:14:00 PM »
My thought on this is to save up a bit more if necessary and just buy once.  The m10 is about $230 at B & H photo.  The At853s are about $135-$150 or so when they show up in the yard sale.  Add a battery box or build one if you want to go cheap or buy one of the pipsqueaks from Naiant for about $160.  That puts you up around $550, but that's cheaper in the long run than making several buys of stuff that doesn't quite work out.

That would be a sweet rig.  I have the same exact setup for my low-profile rig, except I have the earlier incarnation of the PIPsqueak; the Tinyhead.
Mics: Audio-Technica AT853's, Avantone CK-40 (Busman mod), Busman BSC1's, DPA 4022's, DPA 4060's
Pres: Apogee Mini-MP, Core Sound Battery Box
Decks: Sony PCM-M10, Tascam DR-2D, Tascam DR-680 (Busman mod)
Power: Initial RB-270, Naztech PB15000
LMA: http://www.archive.org/search.php?query=taper%3A%22Chris+Finn%22

Offline spankee02

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Re: New Guy, Some Broad Sweeping Questions...
« Reply #43 on: December 06, 2014, 09:40:53 AM »
It's super cool that this site exists. When I started in 94, there was no info on the craft to be found, just other tapers!

Offline obaaron

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Re: New Guy, Some Broad Sweeping Questions...
« Reply #44 on: December 06, 2014, 11:47:35 AM »
I also recommend AT853's as you will also have the option to add various capsules..cardioid, hypercard, omni and subcard and they sound really nice for the price
Mics:  Gefell M20,M21- sms2000/nbob | Schoeps MK4V;MK4- cmc1L/cmc6/nbob | AKG ck1,3,8,22;ck61,62,63,69- c460b/c480b/Naiant/nbob actives | Neumann KM140/150 | AT853, AT933 | CA-11 | DPA 4022 (on loan)
Pres: Naiant Littlebox | Tinybox | BMod Edirol UA-5 | Church ST-9200
Recorders:  Zoom F8 | Tascam DR-680 | Tascam DR-60D | Sony PCM-M10
Video: Canon VIXIA HF R42

**ISO** -   Schoeps mk22 matched pair | Neumann Ak43 pair

 

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