Author Topic: Alternative to umbrella for omni split (Read 9841 times)

Phil Zone · « **on:** August 25, 2014, 08:21:17 PM »

If I'm using a 3ft omni bar and want to keep my mics dry what can I do? I looked at the rycote duck but that's to expensive. Anyone got a method that works well to keep the mics dry?

Thanks

pohaku · « **Reply #1 on:** August 25, 2014, 09:36:37 PM »

Two umbrellas?

audBall · « **Reply #2 on:** August 25, 2014, 10:05:57 PM »

Anyone remember the shot that Grace Design posted a few years back where they were running their 5-channel rig at the board? The image showed each mic with its own miniature umbrella. I scanned their background images from their site, but it doesn't appear to be there anymore. They looked pretty neat, so I decided to email them about it but never got a response. My searches for miniature umbrellas has fallen short, unfortunately, and generally lends me nothing more than options for one's doll collection. Even some of those are quite spendy.

Phil Zone · « **Reply #3 on:** August 25, 2014, 10:08:43 PM »

Quote from: pohaku on August 25, 2014, 09:36:37 PM

Two umbrellas?

To clunky and would be a bit of a sail...

Phil Zone · « **Reply #4 on:** August 25, 2014, 10:10:01 PM »

Quote from: audBall on August 25, 2014, 10:05:57 PM

Anyone remember the shot that Grace Design posted a few years back where they were running their 5-channel rig at the board? The image showed each mic with its own miniature umbrella. I scanned their background images from their site, but it doesn't appear to be there anymore. They looked pretty neat, so I decided to email them about it but never got a response. My searches for miniature umbrellas has fallen short, unfortunately, and generally lends me nothing more than options for one's doll collection. Even some of those are quite spendy.

I think I have seen that photo, that would be an interesting thing to try to make.

Cobiwan · « **Reply #5 on:** August 25, 2014, 10:10:53 PM »

Buy two umbrellas from Ted. They're about 23" in diameter. You'd need a 4' bar though

Phil Zone · « **Reply #6 on:** August 25, 2014, 10:22:25 PM »

Quote from: cobiwan on August 25, 2014, 10:10:53 PM

Buy two umbrellas from Ted. They're about 23" in diameter. You'd need a 4' bar though

I have two already just the main problem is controlling that much wind with that much fabric to catch wind, plus all the weight doesn't sound like a good choice to me. I just don't want to have my stand swaying or even tipping possibly.

I have no idea where to find tiny umbrellas like that, if anyone can find them I can cut them and modify probably.

Cobiwan · « **Reply #7 on:** August 25, 2014, 10:56:38 PM »

What about this one? Tone deaf had a thread about it

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B000PE8FZ8/ref=redir_mdp_mobile/190-7021041-2111456?creative=395097&creativeASIN=B000PE8FZ8&linkCode=df0&ref_=asc_df_B000PE8FZ83197575&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&tag=pg-1369-95-20

http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,100326.0.html

flipp · « **Reply #8 on:** August 26, 2014, 12:03:25 AM »

Quote from: audBall on August 25, 2014, 10:05:57 PM

Anyone remember the shot that Grace Design posted a few years back where they were running their 5-channel rig at the board? The image showed each mic with its own miniature umbrella. I scanned their background images from their site, but it doesn't appear to be there anymore. They looked pretty neat, so I decided to email them about it but never got a response. My searches for miniature umbrellas has fallen short, unfortunately, and generally lends me nothing more than options for one's doll collection. Even some of those are quite spendy.

best image I could find with a quick search of ts is http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=124531.msg1663673#msg1663673

these small umbrellas look like the best alternative to the Rycote duck; hope someone can find a source for them

leehookem · « **Reply #9 on:** August 26, 2014, 12:34:28 AM »

audBall · « **Reply #10 on:** August 26, 2014, 09:17:35 AM »

^ That's it. Thanks for hunting it down. I resent my email to GD from last year. I'll let you guys know if I hear anything.

Gutbucket · « **Reply #11 on:** August 26, 2014, 10:06:12 AM »

Closer view. Serious little umbrellas.

I've used finger cots over the mics and xlr connection. Protecting the mics regardless of the sonic impact was my goal. It was completely water-tight as long as the capsule remains higher than the opening and the open end is tightly secured around the mic cable drip-loop. I expected major muffling from the latex, but that wasn't the case. However, rain impacting the windscreens over the finger-cots sounded like anechoic bombs and made those recordings more or less unlistenable. I've avoided the rain well enough to not have needed to resort to that again, but still have the box'o'cots in my traveling recording junk box.

Before that I once used un-lubed condom ends over the wide spaced DPA 4061's on the TV antenna at a fest, same problem with super-loud rain drops hitting the microphones that time too. While away from the section the antenna arms were lowered by a FOH guy at the request of a non-taping band manager just before it rained again, hard. The rain ran straight down the arms and filled up the condom ends with water. I returned and was horrified to find the little DPAs suspended in small water balloons, but unbelievably they never stopped working. I did the DPA lavaliere distilled water rinse and packed them in desiccant over night to be safe and they never had a problem.

So something like that works, but only if the opening is both well secured and kept lower than the microphone! After that I came across the box of finger cots at the dollar store and picked them up since they are microphone sized, and an entire box of 30 of them or something cost a dollar. I keep those on hand now only for larger microphones. I don't worry about the 4061 pair I use outdoors, which are used and from ebay anyway. If it looks like rain, I point them downwards so the grids won't fill with water if the windscreens saturate. Same pair in use for about 4 years now without problems.

Small Grace-sized under-padded velour-topped mini umbrellas would be best with regards to minimizing rain noise.

tgakidis · « **Reply #12 on:** August 30, 2014, 08:33:26 AM »

don't run splits in the rain or use two stands

stevetoney · « **Reply #13 on:** August 30, 2014, 01:41:34 PM »

I recall some people saying they'd put each mic in an un-lubed condom before, but I've always gone natural, so I can't say personally if it offers adequate protection. Statistics say they're 98% effective though.

jibooer · « **Reply #14 on:** August 30, 2014, 04:13:01 PM »

another method - clamp to someone with a 'brelly and run your stand with another omni at same height. I have seen many a taper use this at the festy scenes.

audBall · « **Reply #15 on:** September 03, 2014, 05:31:54 PM »

Mike, from GD, emailed me back about the umbrellas he was using. They're called Popabrellas (model: POP100). Unfortunately, they don't appear to be in production any longer.

seethreepo · « **Reply #16 on:** September 17, 2014, 12:38:59 AM »

http://www.arphotovideo.com/pop100.html

claims to have stock ..

audBall · « **Reply #17 on:** September 17, 2014, 10:00:41 AM »

Quote from: seethreepo on September 17, 2014, 12:38:59 AM

http://www.arphotovideo.com/pop100.html

claims to have stock ..

Yeah, I tried to place an order but it was immediately refunded.

rocksuitcase · « **Reply #18 on:** April 06, 2016, 09:45:20 AM »

Bringing this back as it is almost summer taping season (unless you're in the south where it already has been!)
We are thinking of running 4 or 6 mics spread out on the Manfrotto cross bar. We have at least one Gak/Ted umbrella and typically use a large golf umbrella to protect the gear (As well as plastic bags etc) anyone have any newer ideas for protecting 3 "stations" of mics which are on one stand? Or support an idea already in this thread? # small umbrellas, two overlapping, bueller or Ted?

this link now claims they are in stock, but are pretty spendy: http://www.arphotovideo.com/pop100.html

Here is a snap of what we used indoors recently:

Gutbucket · « **Reply #19 on:** April 06, 2016, 11:09:15 AM »

I think I'm going to try treating my windscreens with the Neverwet super hydrophobic treatment Voltronic mentioned in the current windscreen thread- http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=174011.msg2183266#msg2183266 and see how well that works for my wide omnis which are never under an umbrella anyway (unless they just happen to end up under a neighboring tapers umbrella), and might try forgoing use of an umbrella over the directional mics to, depending on how severe the weather looks.

Caveats are that since I'm using the humidity and weather resistant miniature DPAs (see my post on the previous page about a 4061 pair working fine while completely submerged) I'm not concerned so much about protecting the mics, but rather attempting to maintain good sound. I'm mostly looking for good water repellency to keep the foam windscreens dry, as it is most definitely audible when they saturate with water. I'm not yet sure if the 4098H hypers are quite as 'waterproof' due to their rear vents, but they are equally humidity resistant.

Forgoing the umbrella may lead to louder droplet impact noise (does with miniature foams, perhaps not with BAS), but I get noise from an umbrella directly over the mics anyway in any significant rain (can't be bothered to put a towel or something atop it to damp impact, which would get over saturated and heavy anyway - we preferably need hydrophobic fuzzy-hair surfaced umbrellas for this).

Recording gear remains wet-protected in a soft sided cooler bag sitting on a folding stool, with a thick black lawn garbage bag over it. Taper stays dry with a large umbrella, river hat & poncho. Chair and folding stool fit under a lawn garbage bag if left vacant.

rocksuitcase · « **Reply #20 on:** April 06, 2016, 11:25:49 AM »

I saw this neverwet suggestion by Voltronic. I will probably try to get some and treat our BAS screens this way. I am still looking for umbrella suggestions from anyone as we are using AKG 460 actives and 460 pre-amps with our summer mic design.

Also, We may be a bit "over conscious" of the rain situation as at Greyfox last year, the most torrential downpour I've ever recorded in occurred (this is almost 35 years doing this!)
Out of a beautiful Sunny day, some black clouds developed, then the wind got up to 25-30 MPH steady. then the rain came down sideways for almost 20 of the 30 minute storm. We were only there on day tickets, so didn't have all our usual rain protection and got caught with some temporary water damage, mainly connector ends which made us have to shut down and patch out of another set up.
I felt like a rookie!

Gutbucket · « **Reply #21 on:** April 06, 2016, 11:29:43 AM »

Definitely want to keep those 460 caps and amp bodies as dry a possible.

rocksuitcase · « **Reply #22 on:** April 06, 2016, 12:13:39 PM »

Quote from: Gutbucket on April 06, 2016, 11:29:43 AM

Definitely want to keep those 460 caps and amp bodies as dry a possible.

It also turned out to be the deck connector end of the PFA's. They had water all inside of them. The big rookie mistake we made was to not loop the cables before they went into the XXL ziplock which was around our two gear bags. Kindms even had his rainflap over the LowePro 2000 but the water flowed into the bag because of my mistake in not looping the cable above the bag. In our defense, it was so hot and sunny at 1 PM when we set up, I didn't even anticipate the rain. The Catskills have nothing on red Rocks when it comes to Pop up rainstorms! This year, we will be prepared with more raingear (also because we are camping for four days!)

Gutbucket · « **Reply #23 on:** April 06, 2016, 12:53:24 PM »

Try FL for some crazy pop-out of nowhere rain squalls!

Yeah, I let the mic cables run slightly long, so they go straight down from the stand to a point lower than the bag before looping back up into the rain bag and gear bag. That way any water runs down the cables and drips below the bag. It also leaves enough cable slack to move the bag around as necessary, even out of the stool and into my lap if need be.

rocksuitcase · « **Reply #24 on:** April 06, 2016, 01:29:02 PM »

Thanks GB. Still asking for Umbrella recs from the crew!

Fried Chicken Boy · « **Reply #25 on:** April 06, 2016, 03:23:31 PM »

Marking thread. Interested to see how that Neverwet works out.

Gutbucket · « **Reply #26 on:** April 06, 2016, 06:23:42 PM »

Just picked some Neverwet at Lowes about a couple hrs ago. Treating windscreens tonight for use at Wanee next week.

The two umbrellas I have for use atop the mic stand are a black Frogg Toggs Travel-Lite which is very effective but rather large in diameter and the biggest I'd try to put up there (it sometimes also shelters another stand or two grouped beneath it, and/or clampers) and a quite small diameter early rainbow Gakbrella. Last I saw JohnR about a year ago, he was using a small superhero franchise umbrella (Batman maybe?) which he said he'd seen and had been searching for for a while. It worked really well as a mic stand umbrella, a bit larger than the Gakbrella, but pretty flat in profile instead of deeply dished more like the ones Mike Grace was using. Not round viewed from above but sort of squarish cross-shaped.

rocksuitcase · « **Reply #27 on:** April 06, 2016, 06:50:48 PM »

Yeah, I ordered some Caig Deoxxit on your recommendation in another post. Figure to clean up some connectors before the season starts. Thanks for the rec!

Also thanks for listing the types of umbrellas you use. It turns out we have 2 Gakbrellas where I thought we had only one. so we just need to find another one for the center mics.
spomeone had recommended a drizzle stick above and I checked them out. a bit wide but may be good to cover all three mic 'stations'.

Perry · « **Reply #28 on:** April 06, 2016, 09:24:32 PM »

I found some Spiderman umbrellas in the kid's clothing department at Walmart. I cut off the grip and filled the hollow shaft with JB Weld so it won't get crushed when I tighten the Windtech clamp. The umbrella is 22" in diameter so two will fit a 30" split with no overlap. The umbrellas are only 7" deep so that helps reduce the wind load a bit. Let's see if I can figure out how to post a photo...

F.O.Bean · « **Reply #29 on:** April 09, 2016, 10:35:55 PM »

Yeah your options are something custom like the Grace Bar in those shots, or just using two stands and staking them down securely! I use those same Drizzle Stick golf bag umbrellas as the ones Tonedeaf uses, and they work GREAT for just small active setups[PERFECT for my 4 channel Schoeps setup], or should work great for a split omni pair on two stands! Just put [1] drizzle stick umbrella on each stand and stake them into the ground securely! If those aren't wide enough, I use Procella umbrellas that have a "Wind Vent/Double Canopy", so that the wind can go THROUGH the umbrella, rather than blow it around crazily! Once again, that stand has to be staked down very securely! I use Busy Beaver Heady Duty yard stakes that are like $6/each

But if you pound or screw those into the ground, your stand isn't going ANYWHERE! And personally, that's the ONLY way I can comfortable tape at festies and outdoors without stressing out to the max

You cant bend these fuc*%rs even if you tried, so its definitely worth the $36 to get [6] of those HD stakes from Busy Beaver

You'll lose them before you ever need new ones!!!

cybergaloot · « **Reply #30 on:** April 10, 2016, 07:18:48 PM »

One thing I noticed about the GD photo is that it looks like the umbrellas are covered by a thin piece of grey foam cut to size. That probably works better than using a towel or other piece of cloth to keep the plopping noise down.

I used two of those cheap umbrellas that clamp to a beach chair to cover my omnis (ADK-TLs no less). The clamp part of the umbrellas went around the stand pole and then I tilted them out and gaffer taped them to the spreader bar. It worked well for keeping them dry but the stand was securely anchored to the ground. If the wind gets high enough to tip that its just not taping weather. The recording didn't come out so great though unless you are after capturing the sound of rain hitting everything around you.

2manyrocks · « **Reply #31 on:** April 11, 2016, 10:54:33 AM »

Quote from: rocksuitcase on April 06, 2016, 11:25:49 AM

I saw this neverwet suggestion by Voltronic. I will probably try to get some and treat our BAS screens this way. I am still looking for umbrella suggestions from anyone as we are using AKG 460 actives and 460 pre-amps with our summer mic design.

Also, We may be a bit "over conscious" of the rain situation as at Greyfox last year, the most torrential downpour I've ever recorded in occurred (this is almost 35 years doing this!)
Out of a beautiful Sunny day, some black clouds developed, then the wind got up to 25-30 MPH steady. then the rain came down sideways for almost 20 of the 30 minute storm. We were only there on day tickets, so didn't have all our usual rain protection and got caught with some temporary water damage, mainly connector ends which made us have to shut down and patch out of another set up.
I felt like a rookie!

I don't know a thing about neverwet, but was curious enough to google for reviews. I suggest you do the same before treating anything valuable.

barrettphisher · « **Reply #32 on:** April 11, 2016, 11:44:31 AM »

Quote from: 2manyrocks on April 11, 2016, 10:54:33 AM

Quote from: rocksuitcase on April 06, 2016, 11:25:49 AM
I saw this neverwet suggestion by Voltronic. I will probably try to get some and treat our BAS screens this way. I am still looking for umbrella suggestions from anyone as we are using AKG 460 actives and 460 pre-amps with our summer mic design.

Also, We may be a bit "over conscious" of the rain situation as at Greyfox last year, the most torrential downpour I've ever recorded in occurred (this is almost 35 years doing this!)
Out of a beautiful Sunny day, some black clouds developed, then the wind got up to 25-30 MPH steady. then the rain came down sideways for almost 20 of the 30 minute storm. We were only there on day tickets, so didn't have all our usual rain protection and got caught with some temporary water damage, mainly connector ends which made us have to shut down and patch out of another set up.
I felt like a rookie!

I don't know a thing about neverwet, but was curious enough to google for reviews. I suggest you do the same before treating anything valuable.

I ruined the diaphragms in my TL's last summer in a rainstorm with umbrellas. I learned a valuable lesson, do whatever you can to protect your mics or pay the price $$$.
Barrett Miller

rocksuitcase · « **Reply #33 on:** April 11, 2016, 12:26:15 PM »

^^^^^^^^ Yes, better safe than sorry!
I am thinking I have to send the PMD 661 to Oade for maintenance as it seems to have a click in every recording now, maybe because enough water got down the cables into the connectors!

Good thing we bought the 680!

Author Topic: Alternative to umbrella for omni split (Read 9841 times)

stevetoney